Popular Post CMHomeboy78 Posted August 25, 2014 Popular Post Share Posted August 25, 2014 The consensus among historians is that c.1400-1525 AD was Chiang Mai's golden age, and a time of unprecedented prosperity for Lanna T'ai which extended its influence to what are now the Burmese Shan States, north as far as as Chiang Rung [Jinghong], and east to Luang Prabang. Chiang Mai was the most important city, the administrative and commercial centre; and as the 15th century progressed became a Buddhist thebaid to rival Sagaing and Pagan. The expression "golden age" is somewhat vague, however accurate it might be in general terms. Perhaps a look at some specific developments would be helpful in better understanding the unique and eventful history of our adopted city and the people we live among. The spirit and aspirations of the age were expressed in the building of Chedi Luang. Begun in 1391 during the reign of King Saenmuangma, it was completed in 1481 by King Tilokarat. According to the Chiang Mai Chronicle it was 41 fathoms [91 metres] high and 27 fathoms [54 metres] square at its base. The famous Emerald Buddha, now to be seen in Wat Phra Kaew was brought to Chiang Mai in 1470 and placed in Chedi Luang's eastern alcove even before the chedi was fully completed. It remained there until 1547 when, during a period of turmoil it was taken to Luang Prabang and subsequently Wiengchan [Vientaine] until 1779 when King Rama I took it as a spoil of war to Bangkok. Chedi Luang lost its upper and southern part during an earthquake in 1545. It underwent a controversial restoration in 1991-2 that encased some of it in concrete and added decorative elements in Central Thai style. King Tilokarat [1404-87] the ninth king of the Mengrai Dynasty reigned from 1441 until his death. During the previous reign of King Samfangkaen, Lanna T'ai troops had defeated a Chinese expeditionary force and had made Chiang Rung [in present-day Yunnan] a dependency and defensive bastion against further incursions from the north. King Tilokarat followed up on this success in campaigns against armies from Ayudhya who were threatening to invade Chiang Mai from the south. In 1480 Lan Chang and its capital Luang Prabang were seized by the Dai Viet Empire based in Hanoi. The Lao king and his two sons lost their lives in the fighting. Tilokarat helped the youngest son Phaya Saikhao to safety. The Lanna T'ai troops fought back successfully, forcing the Dai Viet to withdraw. Phaya Saikhao became the new king of Lan Chang and pledged allegiance to Tilokarat, who also received recognition from the Ming Dynasty Emperor Chenghua, who gave him the title Tao Lan Na [Lord of Lanna]; thus achieving equal status with the Ayudhya kings at the Chinese court. Buddhism became increasingly important and the arts flourished throughout the Lanna kingdom; the remains can still be seen today. Much of it was work of the highest excellence created within the dictates of an elaborate aesthetic system based on philosophical ideas and practices that had spread with the religion from the Himalayan foothills west to the Hindu Kush, then south to Sri Lanka, and east to the China coast and the islands of Imperial Japan. A wealth of fine Buddha images, many with inscribed dates, were cast in the Chiang Mai/Lamphun area. The Sop-Li bronze foundry located at the confluence of the Ping and Li Rivers produced some of the best examples. The few that have survived can be seen in Wat Jet Yot, Wat Chang Man, Wat Sri Koet, and Wat Phra That Haripunchai, Lamphun. King Tilokarat constructed many temples. Wat Jet Yot was built in 1455 from a design based on the Mahabodhi Temple in Bodh Gaya. It hosted the 8th Buddhist Council [sangayana] in 1477 for one year to eliminate discrepancies in the different versions of the Tripitaka. Wat Pa Daeng became a centre of Buddhist scholarship in the tradition of the Mahavihara in Sri Lanka. Chiang Mai has a literary heritage written on hundreds, if not thousands, of palm-leaf manuscripts from the 15th century when major historical and Buddhist texts were written. Most notably, the Jinakalamali and early versions of the Chiang Mai Chronicle. Only some of these have been translated into Pah-sah Glahng, fewer still into English. Lanna T'ai literature ebbed following the Burmese takeover in 1558, although a brief revival took place in the early 19th century after independence was regained, with some new writing, including an updating of the Chiang Mai Chronicle in 1827. The decline of this brilliant age began slowly and imperceptably. After the death of King Tilokarat in 1487 he was succeded by his grandson Phaya Yot Chiang Rai who reigned until 1495 when his son Phaya Kaeo ascended the throne. His reign which lasted until 1525 was marked by two significant military defeats. The first, an attack on Sukhotai in1507, from which he planned to stage a full-scale assault on Ayudhya was over-ambitious and ended in disaster. King Ramatibodhi II counter-attacked, routing the Lanna troops and pursued them as far north as Lampang where he captured that fortified city and devastated the countryside before returning to Ayudhya laden with spoils. The second misadventure occurred in 1523 when Phaya Kaeo sent an army of twenty thousand to attack Keng Tung. They were defeated and suffered great losses, including most of the high-ranking nobles in the officer corps. Kaeo was furious and ordered the execution of his commander-in-chief Saen Yiphingchai. The loss of so many people in these two conflicts affected the stability of the kingdom and a rapid decline began after Phaya Kaeo's death in 1525 and culminated when Chiang Mai fell to the Burmese in 1558. So ended the dynasty of King Mengrai and the golden age of the city he had founded in 1296... Nophaburi SriNakhonping Chiangmai. 8 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
isanbirder Posted August 25, 2014 Share Posted August 25, 2014 Thanks for the information. Being a bit of a cynic, when I saw the thread title, my thought was 'a few years before I arrived'. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CMHomeboy78 Posted August 25, 2014 Author Share Posted August 25, 2014 Thanks for the information. Being a bit of a cynic, when I saw the thread title, my thought was 'a few years before I arrived'. If the easy availability of girls and grass are considered, then yes, a more recent period could be called golden. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sfokevin Posted August 25, 2014 Share Posted August 25, 2014 Thanks for the information. Being a bit of a cynic, when I saw the thread title, my thought was 'a few years before I arrived'. Yeah me too... Was expecting another thread about 30 baht Leo's - This was a refreshing change - Thanks!... 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
northernjohn Posted August 25, 2014 Share Posted August 25, 2014 As usual very informative. Thank you I was wondering if Chiang Mai has a literary heritage written on hundreds, if not thousands, of palm-leaf manuscripts from the 15th century when major historical and Buddhist texts were written. Is preserved on modern tech. equipment. That is what is written on it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CMHomeboy78 Posted August 26, 2014 Author Share Posted August 26, 2014 As usual very informative. Thank you I was wondering if Chiang Mai has a literary heritage written on hundreds, if not thousands, of palm-leaf manuscripts from the 15th century when major historical and Buddhist texts were written. Is preserved on modern tech. equipment. That is what is written on it. Probably the best source of information about palm-leaf manuscripts is the Social Research Institute at Chiang Mai University. It is the creation of the late Professor Hans Penth, who had been at CMU since its founding in the early 1960s. He worked with a team of academics - Thai and farang - to study and microfilm manuscripts that were scattered throughout Northern Thailand. Some background information on the various Lanna T'ai scripts can be had in the excellent book: History of Lan Na, by Sarassawadee Ongsakul. Silkworm 2005. Choke dee. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DeaconJohn Posted August 26, 2014 Share Posted August 26, 2014 Interesting bit about the Buddha images and the Sop-Li bronze foundry. I've never heard of it. Have any excavations been carried out there? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CMHomeboy78 Posted August 26, 2014 Author Share Posted August 26, 2014 Interesting bit about the Buddha images and the Sop-Li bronze foundry. I've never heard of it. Have any excavations been carried out there? My main source of information about that is: Sop-Li: A Fiftheenth Century Bronze Casting Workshop. By Carol Stratton. Journal of the Siam Society. 2009 Vol. 97. PDF file. Carol Stratton has been in Thailand since the early 1970s and began her career as a young volunteer guide at the National Museum in Bangkok. Since then she went on to become a distinguished writer and lecturer on Lanna T'ai art. Her best known book, Buddhist Sculpture of Northern Thailand [silkworm Books 2004] is a definitive study. In a footnote to her JSS article she states: "Efforts to find out if the current inhabitants of Sop-Li village have retained any memory of this famed bronze-casting workshop were abortive. According to Ajarn Vithi Panich of Chiang Mai University, such exemplary craftsmen would have been taken off to Burma during its long occupation of Lanna T'ai, and other people would have been relocated to the area." That's just conjecture of course; but it seems plausible to me. I have never heard of any excavations being done at the site. Thanks for your interest. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MESmith Posted August 26, 2014 Share Posted August 26, 2014 Interesting bit about the Buddha images and the Sop-Li bronze foundry. I've never heard of it. Have any excavations been carried out there? I have never heard of any excavations being done at the site. Thanks for your interest. Shame that metal detectors are not easily available here. Hobby archeology could take off. Plus, easier to find my wedding ring next time it slips off in the garden. Been lucky to find it 2 times.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ulysses G. Posted August 26, 2014 Share Posted August 26, 2014 Thanks for the information. Being a bit of a cynic, when I saw the thread title, my thought was 'a few years before I arrived'. If the easy availability of girls and grass are considered, then yes, a more recent period could be called golden. The years that John's Place/Cozy Corner were a Go Go Bar immediately sprang to mind. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mapguy Posted August 26, 2014 Share Posted August 26, 2014 (edited) Keng Tung (north of Tachilek) is the junction in Myanmar en route to SW Yunnan (to the NE) and West in Myanmar to Napyidaw, Mandalay and Bagan further West as the roads still go. Not surprising that existing roads through the mountains were once important trade routes. Could be interesting to consider the future as well as look to the past. Edited August 26, 2014 by Mapguy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CMHomeboy78 Posted August 27, 2014 Author Share Posted August 27, 2014 Keng Tung (north of Tachilek) is the junction in Myanmar en route to SW Yunnan (to the NE) and West in Myanmar to Napyidaw, Mandalay and Bagan further West as the roads still go. Not surprising that existing roads through the mountains were once important trade routes. Could be interesting to consider the future as well as look to the past. It seems to have always been a relatively important place - at least from the 15th century onward; and possibly before that. If you are familiar with W.Somerset Maugham's travel book written in the early 1920s, The Gentleman in the Parlour, you will remember that it was a visit to Keng Tung, on the recommendation of a friend, that persuaded him to make the journey. From Rangoon upriver to Mandalay, then overland on ponies and pack-mules through Upper Burma to Keng Tung. Then on to Mae Sai and down to the railhead in Chiang Mai and beyond. It must have been an unforgettable trip. It certainly inspired an excellent book - one that I reread every few years. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CMHomeboy78 Posted August 27, 2014 Author Share Posted August 27, 2014 Interesting bit about the Buddha images and the Sop-Li bronze foundry. I've never heard of it. Have any excavations been carried out there? I have never heard of any excavations being done at the site. Thanks for your interest. Shame that metal detectors are not easily available here. Hobby archeology could take off. Plus, easier to find my wedding ring next time it slips off in the garden. Been lucky to find it 2 times.... I've often had the same idea about using a metal detector here. I have a friend in the US who has been doing it since the 1980s. We grew up north of New York City near the Hudson Highlands. The whole area played a key role during the Revolution. My friend has accumulated what amounts to a valuable collection of artifacts including British shillings and even a Spanish bit. Chiang Mai is virgin territory for metal detecting. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DeaconJohn Posted August 28, 2014 Share Posted August 28, 2014 Interesting bit about the Buddha images and the Sop-Li bronze foundry. I've never heard of it. Have any excavations been carried out there? My main source of information about that is: Sop-Li: A Fiftheenth Century Bronze Casting Workshop. By Carol Stratton. Journal of the Siam Society. 2009 Vol. 97. PDF file. Carol Stratton has been in Thailand since the early 1970s and began her career as a young volunteer guide at the National Museum in Bangkok. Since then she went on to become a distinguished writer and lecturer on Lanna T'ai art. Her best known book, Buddhist Sculpture of Northern Thailand [silkworm Books 2004] is a definitive study. In a footnote to her JSS article she states: "Efforts to find out if the current inhabitants of Sop-Li village have retained any memory of this famed bronze-casting workshop were abortive. According to Ajarn Vithi Panich of Chiang Mai University, such exemplary craftsmen would have been taken off to Burma during its long occupation of Lanna T'ai, and other people would have been relocated to the area." That's just conjecture of course; but it seems plausible to me. I have never heard of any excavations being done at the site. Thanks for your interest. Trying to find the exact location of Sop-Li village has met with no success so far. I have seven maps that include the area, but none of them show a junction of the Ping and Li Rivers. The better maps show the Li River [Mae Nahm Li] as splitting up into several branches and petering out not far south of the modern town of Li. Is the statement that the town and its 15th century foundry was "located on the confluence of the Ping and Li Rivers" misinformation? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rcjoop Posted August 28, 2014 Share Posted August 28, 2014 Interesting bit about the Buddha images and the Sop-Li bronze foundry. I've never heard of it. Have any excavations been carried out there? My main source of information about that is: Sop-Li: A Fiftheenth Century Bronze Casting Workshop. By Carol Stratton. Journal of the Siam Society. 2009 Vol. 97. PDF file. Carol Stratton has been in Thailand since the early 1970s and began her career as a young volunteer guide at the National Museum in Bangkok. Since then she went on to become a distinguished writer and lecturer on Lanna T'ai art. Her best known book, Buddhist Sculpture of Northern Thailand [silkworm Books 2004] is a definitive study. In a footnote to her JSS article she states: "Efforts to find out if the current inhabitants of Sop-Li village have retained any memory of this famed bronze-casting workshop were abortive. According to Ajarn Vithi Panich of Chiang Mai University, such exemplary craftsmen would have been taken off to Burma during its long occupation of Lanna T'ai, and other people would have been relocated to the area." That's just conjecture of course; but it seems plausible to me. I have never heard of any excavations being done at the site. Thanks for your interest. Trying to find the exact location of Sop-Li village has met with no success so far. I have seven maps that include the area, but none of them show a junction of the Ping and Li Rivers. The better maps show the Li River [Mae Nahm Li] as splitting up into several branches and petering out not far south of the modern town of Li. Is the statement that the town and its 15th century foundry was "located on the confluence of the Ping and Li Rivers" misinformation? Perhaps I misunderstand, but it seems obvious that the confluence of Ping and Li is not far from Chom Thong. If you start looking for it down south you will find its origins and not the confluence, you are aware of the fact that the flow of the Li river is in Northern direction ? There is only a single reference and for me unclear if it says made by workers from the sop li village or it might say made by villagers from the sop li area in that case there might never have existed a village by the name Sop Li Seems unlikely to me that the casting of a big and important image would have been done in the village, usually it was done near the temple where it was to reside. Like the big one in Wat Chedi Luang that was cast there and on the field next to the temple there were "a thousand furnaces" or Phan Tao where later the temple with the same name was created. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MESmith Posted August 28, 2014 Share Posted August 28, 2014 My main source of information about that is: Sop-Li: A Fiftheenth Century Bronze Casting Workshop. By Carol Stratton. Journal of the Siam Society. 2009 Vol. 97. PDF file. Carol Stratton has been in Thailand since the early 1970s and began her career as a young volunteer guide at the National Museum in Bangkok. Since then she went on to become a distinguished writer and lecturer on Lanna T'ai art. Her best known book, Buddhist Sculpture of Northern Thailand [silkworm Books 2004] is a definitive study. In a footnote to her JSS article she states: "Efforts to find out if the current inhabitants of Sop-Li village have retained any memory of this famed bronze-casting workshop were abortive. According to Ajarn Vithi Panich of Chiang Mai University, such exemplary craftsmen would have been taken off to Burma during its long occupation of Lanna T'ai, and other people would have been relocated to the area." That's just conjecture of course; but it seems plausible to me. I have never heard of any excavations being done at the site. Thanks for your interest. Trying to find the exact location of Sop-Li village has met with no success so far. I have seven maps that include the area, but none of them show a junction of the Ping and Li Rivers. The better maps show the Li River [Mae Nahm Li] as splitting up into several branches and petering out not far south of the modern town of Li. Is the statement that the town and its 15th century foundry was "located on the confluence of the Ping and Li Rivers" misinformation? Perhaps I misunderstand, but it seems obvious that the confluence of Ping and Li is not far from Chom Thong. If you start looking for it down south you will find its origins and not the confluence, you are aware of the fact that the flow of the Li river is in Northern direction ? There is only a single reference and for me unclear if it says made by workers from the sop li village or it might say made by villagers from the sop li area in that case there might never have existed a village by the name Sop Li Seems unlikely to me that the casting of a big and important image would have been done in the village, usually it was done near the temple where it was to reside. Like the big one in Wat Chedi Luang that was cast there and on the field next to the temple there were "a thousand furnaces" or Phan Tao where later the temple with the same name was created. And rivers on flood plains change their course over time. So I guess confluences move, too. But should still be in Chom Thong area. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CMHomeboy78 Posted August 28, 2014 Author Share Posted August 28, 2014 Perhaps I misunderstand, but it seems obvious that the confluence of Ping and Li is not far from Chom Thong. If you start looking for it down south you will find its origins and not the confluence, you are aware of the fact that the flow of the Li river is in Northern direction ? There is only a single reference and for me unclear if it says made by workers from the sop li village or it might say made by villagers from the sop li area in that case there might never have existed a village by the name Sop Li Seems unlikely to me that the casting of a big and important image would have been done in the village, usually it was done near the temple where it was to reside. Like the big one in Wat Chedi Luang that was cast there and on the field next to the temple there were "a thousand furnaces" or Phan Tao where later the temple with the same name was created. My mistake was in thinking that the Li River flows south instead of north. So you are right, the confluence with the Ping must be in the Chom Thong area. I still haven't been able to locate Sop-Li village. As MESmith says, rivers on flood plains change their course over time. Both the Ping and Li Rivers undoubtedly have since the 15th century. Carol Stratton's statement that she visited Sop-Li village should be taken at face value. She is a reliable source of information. I would very much like to make contact with her to clarify this issue and ask her about some other things as well. She was at one time [and possibly still is] a Chiang Mai resident, and has given one or more talks to the CM Expats Club. Maybe some of the long-time members know her. Meanwhile, the matter remains unresolved. Thanks for your input. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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