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The Golden Age of Chiang Mai


CMHomeboy78

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Thanks for the information.

Being a bit of a cynic, when I saw the thread title, my thought was 'a few years before I arrived'.

If the easy availability of girls and grass are considered, then yes, a more recent period could be called golden.

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Thanks for the information.

Being a bit of a cynic, when I saw the thread title, my thought was 'a few years before I arrived'.

Yeah me too... Was expecting another thread about 30 baht Leo's - This was a refreshing change - Thanks!... biggrin.png

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As usual very informative. Thank you

I was wondering if

Chiang Mai has a literary heritage written on hundreds, if not thousands, of palm-leaf manuscripts from the 15th century when major historical and Buddhist texts were written.

Is preserved on modern tech. equipment. That is what is written on it.

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As usual very informative. Thank you

I was wondering if

Chiang Mai has a literary heritage written on hundreds, if not thousands, of palm-leaf manuscripts from the 15th century when major historical and Buddhist texts were written.

Is preserved on modern tech. equipment. That is what is written on it.

Probably the best source of information about palm-leaf manuscripts is the Social Research Institute at Chiang Mai University.

It is the creation of the late Professor Hans Penth, who had been at CMU since its founding in the early 1960s. He worked with a team of academics - Thai and farang - to study and microfilm manuscripts that were scattered throughout Northern Thailand.

Some background information on the various Lanna T'ai scripts can be had in the excellent book: History of Lan Na, by Sarassawadee Ongsakul. Silkworm 2005.

Choke dee.

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Interesting bit about the Buddha images and the Sop-Li bronze foundry. I've never heard of it.

Have any excavations been carried out there?

My main source of information about that is:

Sop-Li: A Fiftheenth Century Bronze Casting Workshop.

By Carol Stratton. Journal of the Siam Society. 2009 Vol. 97. PDF file.

Carol Stratton has been in Thailand since the early 1970s and began her career as a young volunteer guide at the National Museum in Bangkok. Since then she went on to become a distinguished writer and lecturer on Lanna T'ai art. Her best known book, Buddhist Sculpture of Northern Thailand [silkworm Books 2004] is a definitive study.

In a footnote to her JSS article she states: "Efforts to find out if the current inhabitants of Sop-Li village have retained any memory of this famed bronze-casting workshop were abortive. According to Ajarn Vithi Panich of Chiang Mai University, such exemplary craftsmen would have been taken off to Burma during its long occupation of Lanna T'ai, and other people would have been relocated to the area."

That's just conjecture of course; but it seems plausible to me.

I have never heard of any excavations being done at the site.

Thanks for your interest.

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Interesting bit about the Buddha images and the Sop-Li bronze foundry. I've never heard of it.

Have any excavations been carried out there?

I have never heard of any excavations being done at the site.

Thanks for your interest.

Shame that metal detectors are not easily available here. Hobby archeology could take off. Plus, easier to find my wedding ring next time it slips off in the garden. Been lucky to find it 2 times....

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Thanks for the information.

Being a bit of a cynic, when I saw the thread title, my thought was 'a few years before I arrived'.

If the easy availability of girls and grass are considered, then yes, a more recent period could be called golden.

The years that John's Place/Cozy Corner were a Go Go Bar immediately sprang to mind. tongue.png

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Keng Tung (north of Tachilek) is the junction in Myanmar en route to SW Yunnan (to the NE) and West in Myanmar to Napyidaw, Mandalay and Bagan further West as the roads still go. Not surprising that existing roads through the mountains were once important trade routes. Could be interesting to consider the future as well as look to the past.

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Keng Tung (north of Tachilek) is the junction in Myanmar en route to SW Yunnan (to the NE) and West in Myanmar to Napyidaw, Mandalay and Bagan further West as the roads still go. Not surprising that existing roads through the mountains were once important trade routes. Could be interesting to consider the future as well as look to the past.

It seems to have always been a relatively important place - at least from the 15th century onward; and possibly before that.

If you are familiar with W.Somerset Maugham's travel book written in the early 1920s, The Gentleman in the Parlour, you will remember that it was a visit to Keng Tung, on the recommendation of a friend, that persuaded him to make the journey.

From Rangoon upriver to Mandalay, then overland on ponies and pack-mules through Upper Burma to Keng Tung. Then on to Mae Sai and down to the railhead in Chiang Mai and beyond.

It must have been an unforgettable trip. It certainly inspired an excellent book - one that I reread every few years.

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Interesting bit about the Buddha images and the Sop-Li bronze foundry. I've never heard of it.

Have any excavations been carried out there?

I have never heard of any excavations being done at the site.

Thanks for your interest.

Shame that metal detectors are not easily available here. Hobby archeology could take off. Plus, easier to find my wedding ring next time it slips off in the garden. Been lucky to find it 2 times....

I've often had the same idea about using a metal detector here.

I have a friend in the US who has been doing it since the 1980s. We grew up north of New York City near the Hudson Highlands. The whole area played a key role during the Revolution.

My friend has accumulated what amounts to a valuable collection of artifacts including British shillings and even a Spanish bit.

Chiang Mai is virgin territory for metal detecting.

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Interesting bit about the Buddha images and the Sop-Li bronze foundry. I've never heard of it.

Have any excavations been carried out there?

My main source of information about that is:

Sop-Li: A Fiftheenth Century Bronze Casting Workshop.

By Carol Stratton. Journal of the Siam Society. 2009 Vol. 97. PDF file.

Carol Stratton has been in Thailand since the early 1970s and began her career as a young volunteer guide at the National Museum in Bangkok. Since then she went on to become a distinguished writer and lecturer on Lanna T'ai art. Her best known book, Buddhist Sculpture of Northern Thailand [silkworm Books 2004] is a definitive study.

In a footnote to her JSS article she states: "Efforts to find out if the current inhabitants of Sop-Li village have retained any memory of this famed bronze-casting workshop were abortive. According to Ajarn Vithi Panich of Chiang Mai University, such exemplary craftsmen would have been taken off to Burma during its long occupation of Lanna T'ai, and other people would have been relocated to the area."

That's just conjecture of course; but it seems plausible to me.

I have never heard of any excavations being done at the site.

Thanks for your interest.

Trying to find the exact location of Sop-Li village has met with no success so far.

I have seven maps that include the area, but none of them show a junction of the Ping and Li Rivers.

The better maps show the Li River [Mae Nahm Li] as splitting up into several branches and petering out not far south of the modern town of Li.

Is the statement that the town and its 15th century foundry was "located on the confluence of the Ping and Li Rivers" misinformation?

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Interesting bit about the Buddha images and the Sop-Li bronze foundry. I've never heard of it.

Have any excavations been carried out there?

My main source of information about that is:

Sop-Li: A Fiftheenth Century Bronze Casting Workshop.

By Carol Stratton. Journal of the Siam Society. 2009 Vol. 97. PDF file.

Carol Stratton has been in Thailand since the early 1970s and began her career as a young volunteer guide at the National Museum in Bangkok. Since then she went on to become a distinguished writer and lecturer on Lanna T'ai art. Her best known book, Buddhist Sculpture of Northern Thailand [silkworm Books 2004] is a definitive study.

In a footnote to her JSS article she states: "Efforts to find out if the current inhabitants of Sop-Li village have retained any memory of this famed bronze-casting workshop were abortive. According to Ajarn Vithi Panich of Chiang Mai University, such exemplary craftsmen would have been taken off to Burma during its long occupation of Lanna T'ai, and other people would have been relocated to the area."

That's just conjecture of course; but it seems plausible to me.

I have never heard of any excavations being done at the site.

Thanks for your interest.

Trying to find the exact location of Sop-Li village has met with no success so far.

I have seven maps that include the area, but none of them show a junction of the Ping and Li Rivers.

The better maps show the Li River [Mae Nahm Li] as splitting up into several branches and petering out not far south of the modern town of Li.

Is the statement that the town and its 15th century foundry was "located on the confluence of the Ping and Li Rivers" misinformation?

Perhaps I misunderstand, but it seems obvious that the confluence of Ping and Li is not far from Chom Thong.

If you start looking for it down south you will find its origins and not the confluence, you are aware of the fact that the flow of the Li river is in Northern direction ?

There is only a single reference and for me unclear if it says made by workers from the sop li village or it might say made by villagers from the sop li area in that case there might never have existed a village by the name Sop Li

Seems unlikely to me that the casting of a big and important image would have been done in the village, usually it was done near the temple where it was to reside.

Like the big one in Wat Chedi Luang that was cast there and on the field next to the temple there were "a thousand furnaces" or Phan Tao where later the temple with the same name was created.

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My main source of information about that is:

Sop-Li: A Fiftheenth Century Bronze Casting Workshop.

By Carol Stratton. Journal of the Siam Society. 2009 Vol. 97. PDF file.

Carol Stratton has been in Thailand since the early 1970s and began her career as a young volunteer guide at the National Museum in Bangkok. Since then she went on to become a distinguished writer and lecturer on Lanna T'ai art. Her best known book, Buddhist Sculpture of Northern Thailand [silkworm Books 2004] is a definitive study.

In a footnote to her JSS article she states: "Efforts to find out if the current inhabitants of Sop-Li village have retained any memory of this famed bronze-casting workshop were abortive. According to Ajarn Vithi Panich of Chiang Mai University, such exemplary craftsmen would have been taken off to Burma during its long occupation of Lanna T'ai, and other people would have been relocated to the area."

That's just conjecture of course; but it seems plausible to me.

I have never heard of any excavations being done at the site.

Thanks for your interest.

Trying to find the exact location of Sop-Li village has met with no success so far.

I have seven maps that include the area, but none of them show a junction of the Ping and Li Rivers.

The better maps show the Li River [Mae Nahm Li] as splitting up into several branches and petering out not far south of the modern town of Li.

Is the statement that the town and its 15th century foundry was "located on the confluence of the Ping and Li Rivers" misinformation?

Perhaps I misunderstand, but it seems obvious that the confluence of Ping and Li is not far from Chom Thong.

If you start looking for it down south you will find its origins and not the confluence, you are aware of the fact that the flow of the Li river is in Northern direction ?

There is only a single reference and for me unclear if it says made by workers from the sop li village or it might say made by villagers from the sop li area in that case there might never have existed a village by the name Sop Li

Seems unlikely to me that the casting of a big and important image would have been done in the village, usually it was done near the temple where it was to reside.

Like the big one in Wat Chedi Luang that was cast there and on the field next to the temple there were "a thousand furnaces" or Phan Tao where later the temple with the same name was created.

And rivers on flood plains change their course over time. So I guess confluences move, too. But should still be in Chom Thong area.

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Perhaps I misunderstand, but it seems obvious that the confluence of Ping and Li is not far from Chom Thong.

If you start looking for it down south you will find its origins and not the confluence, you are aware of the fact that the flow of the Li river is in Northern direction ?

There is only a single reference and for me unclear if it says made by workers from the sop li village or it might say made by villagers from the sop li area in that case there might never have existed a village by the name Sop Li

Seems unlikely to me that the casting of a big and important image would have been done in the village, usually it was done near the temple where it was to reside.

Like the big one in Wat Chedi Luang that was cast there and on the field next to the temple there were "a thousand furnaces" or Phan Tao where later the temple with the same name was created.

My mistake was in thinking that the Li River flows south instead of north.

So you are right, the confluence with the Ping must be in the Chom Thong area. I still haven't been able to locate Sop-Li village. As MESmith says, rivers on flood plains change their course over time. Both the Ping and Li Rivers undoubtedly have since the 15th century.

Carol Stratton's statement that she visited Sop-Li village should be taken at face value. She is a reliable source of information. I would very much like to make contact with her to clarify this issue and ask her about some other things as well.

She was at one time [and possibly still is] a Chiang Mai resident, and has given one or more talks to the CM Expats Club. Maybe some of the long-time members know her.

Meanwhile, the matter remains unresolved.

Thanks for your input.

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