Applying Non-B - Embassy asks for docs the school 'doesn't' have

[badprimers]

Hello there.

I'll just put this forward to the forum in hope somebody may have an idea to what it means.

(I work at a gov't school)

I'm going home during the October-holiday which coincides with my Non-O expires and I'll therefore apply a Non-B. I've inquired the Thai embassy to forward me a checklist of needed docs via email - seems to differ from embassy to embassy anyway - which they did. So far so good.

I gave the email to HoD to check the details but one point on the list made her completely 'jam'.

- School registration and tax papers

HoD doesn't know what is meant by this. She stated simply that they don't have the docs "..we are a big gov't school est. in the 50's, what registration?..". "The 'tax papers'.. all salaries is managed by the district office (whatever that is?). I've tried to be creative and come up with suggestions but they seem to fall on deaf ears.

HoD asked me to get it clarified by the embassy which I tried several times, but now they just went silent.

Anyone know? Any input is much appreciated.

[lostinisaan]

Your post is indeed hard to understand. But I’ll give it a try. < +>

It seems that you’re already working there since May?

Your visa situation is more than irritating to me, as it seems that you want to apply for a visa, when you’re not even here. Or, were you planning to do that before you’re leaving?

You didn’t mention if you’re holding a work permit by now. If you pass this information by, it’s easy to give you advice. Anything else is guessing.

The “School Registration” is needed for social security reasons. There’re schools out there that are NOT even registered at this fabulous office. Neither “Foreign English Teachers”, nor janitors, etc., are registered. I work at such a school and can tell you that first hand.

But my school is a pretty small one in the northeast of this country.

People at bigger schools know how to handle these situations pretty well, as all documents are available in Thai.

Maybe they don’t want you back?

A serious question.

Once you’ve received your work permit, the “Tax Paying Part” starts. It’s a law here that schools who’ve got foreigners working there must have them registered at this office. Usually 750 baht paid by both parties per month.

“Tax Papers” seems to be your tax clearance from before. Or even being registered there.

When registered, you’ll receive a tax card, with your own number, you’ll always have.

Best of luck. Please keep us informed.

Edited September 1, 2014 by lostinisaan

[badprimers]

Alright then

I work there in my 2nd year, 1st waiver, I've got WP and a tax code + receipt of declared income, tax year '13.

I'm on a non-o now which I got end of May '13. With extensions it will expire end of October and I won't be able to extend due to absence of the 400kbt. I will go home to Europe on the 9th Oct. and will in that regard apply for a non-B. I've asked the school to prepare my docs, but before that - as mentioned - I asked the embassy what they will need once I'm there. (Thought it would be a good idea to check before I leave).

In regard to the tax papers, if they mean my tax papers I would understand .. And that's what I asked the embassy about, but no answer .

Cheers.

[SlyAnimal]

With your current visa, is it a multiple O or a single entry O?

If it's a single entry, which you then extended, you can actually just goto your local immigration office 30 days before your current extension ends, and ask for them to grant you a new extension of stay based on employment (Although I've never done it myself, I have done it the other way, as I changed from an extension based on employment, to one based on marriage instead).

You'll need the documents from the school for an extension, which would be easy to get since you already have a work permit + waiver.

I'm not sure if this is possible when you're on a multiple O though (But I think it'd probably be fine).

If you do decide to get a B visa though, then the document which you've said the embassy has asked for, isn't *to the best of my knowledge) actually required. The document you've described sounds like a document which is actually required when applying for a work permit extension (And you have a WP already, so this shouldn't be necessary). I think that the embassy has either read your request and sent you the required documents for a visa/WP extension, or are simply giving you a much larger list of documents than what is actually required for just a non-B (as they're also giving you the WP/Visa extension document list, which you wouldn't need until after you have a Non-.

From memory (And I might be missing something), for a Non-B you need:

Application form + passport photos

Letter from the School to the consulate
Letter from the Education Service Area Office to the Consulate.
Copy of your director's ID card

Copy of your bachelor degree (not needed, but just incase)

Police clearance letter/certificate etc (usually not needed, but take it just incase)

Also the letter which you're describing, I've gotten our director to fill out, and handed it in with the other stuff I give for my extensions, but I'm not sure if it's actually needed or not. As I think he just leaves some sections blank, as being a government school, they're not applicable, so long as you have the official stamp + copy of the director's ID card.

[aidenai]

I'm on a non-o now which I got end of May '13. With extensions it will expire end of October and I won't be able to extend due to absence of the 400kbt.

What's the problem extending your permission of stay based on employment?

[lostinisaan]

Alright then

I work there in my 2nd year, 1st waiver, I've got WP and a tax code + receipt of declared income, tax year '13.

I'm on a non-o now which I got end of May '13. With extensions it will expire end of October and I won't be able to extend due to absence of the 400kbt. I will go home to Europe on the 9th Oct. and will in that regard apply for a non-B. I've asked the school to prepare my docs, but before that - as mentioned - I asked the embassy what they will need once I'm there. (Thought it would be a good idea to check before I leave).

In regard to the tax papers, if they mean my tax papers I would understand .. And that's what I asked the embassy about, but no answer .

Cheers.

You'll have the choice to apply for another Non-O, based on your marriage, when you're back in Europe, by just showing your marriage certificate at a Thai consulate. I'd guess that you're on a Non-O multiple entry, issued by such a consulate.

The fact that you've got a valid work permit would also entitle you to apply for a Non-B visa at a European Thai consulate.( Much easier than at a Thai embassy)

Then another possibility. The Thai consulate in Sawannakhet/Laos would issue a Non-O, without financial proof. All you need is your original marriage certificate, a signed copy of your wife's ID. You could apply for a Non-O, multiple entry visa for one year.

If I were you, I'd visit the local Immigration and get their advice. If they accept that you can extend your Non-O visa (or get a new one) in Europe, you'd be independent and still have a visa if the school would all in a sudden decide that they don't need you anymore.

Whatever your decision will be, I wish you best of luck to get this sorted out.

[lostinisaan]

I'm on a non-o now which I got end of May '13. With extensions it will expire end of October and I won't be able to extend due to absence of the 400kbt.

What's the problem extending your permission of stay based on employment?

Sorry, seems that we wrote our posts at the same time. Indeed a very good question, as you do not have any problems to extend your visa at a local Immigration, without leaving the country.

[aidenai]

I'm on a non-o now which I got end of May '13. With extensions it will expire end of October and I won't be able to extend due to absence of the 400kbt.

What's the problem extending your permission of stay based on employment?

Sorry, seems that we wrote our posts at the same time. Indeed a very good question, as you do not have any problems to extend your visa at a local Immigration, without leaving the country.

Exactly. Just extend the permission of stay based on employment (reason of necessity 2.6, IO 327/ 2557) and apply for a re-entry permit at the same time. If there are any problems with documents in regards to 'school registration', 'authorisation', or 'tax registration', the problems can be solved easily by telephone or fax.

[badprimers]

Quote: What's the problem extending your permission of stay based on employment?

But I thought that I would need minimum 40kbt salary which I'm not making)?? That's what I was told during the first time I did the non-O extension.

(I'm on a non-O single entry issued in Vientiane)

Edited September 2, 2014 by badprimers

[aidenai]

Quote: What's the problem extending your permission of stay based on employment?

But I thought that I would need minimum 40kbt salary?? That's what I was told during the first time I did the non-O extension.

(I'm on a non-O single entry issued in Vientiane)

Reason of Necessity 2.6 versus Reason of Necessity 2.18, ORDER OF THE IMMIGRATION BUREAU No. 327/2557 Subject: Criteria and Conditions for Consideration of an Alien’s Application for a Temporary Stay in the Kingdom of Thailand. Two different things, mate.

[badprimers]

Hmm, looks interesting.

I'll try head down to the local immigration and flash the (reason of necessity 2.6, IO 327/ 2557) and see what they say.

Will let you know, thx!

Edited September 2, 2014 by badprimers

[TerryLH]

"Once youve received your work permit, the Tax Paying Part starts. Its a law here that schools whove got foreigners working there must have them registered at this office. Usually 750 baht paid by both parties per month."

Not real clear on what you're saying. You mention tax and SS as if they are the same office. You make a generalizations that makes it look like you are saying 'one size fits all'.

Just because a school has foreign teachers does not always mean they have to enroll them in SS. Teachers at private school are not eligible for SS.

As far as tax and registration papers, the OP was pretty clear about what he was told. They want the schools tax and registration info, not the OP's. Whether it's actually needed in this case is another matter.

"But I thought that I would need minimum 40kbt salary??"

That is only needed (or 400k in the bank)when you are extending based on marriage.

There is no minimum amount needed for teachers to extend based on work.

[lostinisaan]

"Once youve received your work permit, the Tax Paying Part starts. Its a law here that schools whove got foreigners working there must have them registered at this office. Usually 750 baht paid by both parties per month."

Not real clear on what you're saying. You mention tax and SS as if they are the same office. You make a generalizations that makes it look like you are saying 'one size fits all'.

Just because a school has foreign teachers does not always mean they have to enroll them in SS. Teachers at private school are not eligible for SS.

As far as tax and registration papers, the OP was pretty clear about what he was told. They want the schools tax and registration info, not the OP's. Whether it's actually needed in this case is another matter.

"But I thought that I would need minimum 40kbt salary??"

That is only needed (or 400k in the bank)when you are extending based on marriage.

There is no minimum amount needed for teachers to extend based on work.

I apologize, if my post created a sort of confusion. I’m working at a Thai government primary school, which is not yet registered as a school at the social security office, which makes it difficult for me to continue paying SS.

You can’t start the process of applying for the social security, if you haven’t got a work permit.

Once the work permit is issued, the tax department will be informed and you’ll have to pay tax from that time on.

[stevo2]

"Once youve received your work permit, the Tax Paying Part starts. Its a law here that schools whove got foreigners working there must have them registered at this office. Usually 750 baht paid by both parties per month."

Not real clear on what you're saying. You mention tax and SS as if they are the same office. You make a generalizations that makes it look like you are saying 'one size fits all'.

Just because a school has foreign teachers does not always mean they have to enroll them in SS. Teachers at private school are not eligible for SS.

As far as tax and registration papers, the OP was pretty clear about what he was told. They want the schools tax and registration info, not the OP's. Whether it's actually needed in this case is another matter.

"But I thought that I would need minimum 40kbt salary??"

That is only needed (or 400k in the bank)when you are extending based on marriage.

There is no minimum amount needed for teachers to extend based on work.

I apologize, if my post created a sort of confusion. I’m working at a Thai government primary school, which is not yet registered as a school at the social security office, which makes it difficult for me to continue paying SS.

You can’t start the process of applying for the social security, if you haven’t got a work permit.

Once the work permit is issued, the tax department will be informed and you’ll have to pay tax from that time on.

You say "continue paying SS".

If you are already in the scheme then you can go and pay yourself.

I think that you will also find that you have to go and register at the Tax office yourself. The labour department do not inform them.

[lostinisaan]

"Once youve received your work permit, the Tax Paying Part starts. Its a law here that schools whove got foreigners working there must have them registered at this office. Usually 750 baht paid by both parties per month."

Not real clear on what you're saying. You mention tax and SS as if they are the same office. You make a generalizations that makes it look like you are saying 'one size fits all'.

Just because a school has foreign teachers does not always mean they have to enroll them in SS. Teachers at private school are not eligible for SS.

As far as tax and registration papers, the OP was pretty clear about what he was told. They want the schools tax and registration info, not the OP's. Whether it's actually needed in this case is another matter.

"But I thought that I would need minimum 40kbt salary??"

That is only needed (or 400k in the bank)when you are extending based on marriage.

There is no minimum amount needed for teachers to extend based on work.

I apologize, if my post created a sort of confusion. I’m working at a Thai government primary school, which is not yet registered as a school at the social security office, which makes it difficult for me to continue paying SS.

You can’t start the process of applying for the social security, if you haven’t got a work permit.

Once the work permit is issued, the tax department will be informed and you’ll have to pay tax from that time on.

You say "continue paying SS".

If you are already in the scheme then you can go and pay yourself.

I think that you will also find that you have to go and register at the Tax office yourself. The labour department do not inform them.

I can't continue doing so, as I was trying to pay in alone until the situation is solved. My former school forgot to inform them ( another neighboring province),that I'm not working there anymore, so they gave me two forms.

One is the registration, which my director has to sign to continue. The other form was for my former director to get it signed that I'm not working there anymore.

I do have my tax number since ten years and know how to do the procedure every year......

Honestly speaking, I've never informed the tax department, but they always had my name and other information in their database.

Might be the school, who has to inform them, doesn't really matter now.

Edited September 2, 2014 by lostinisaan

[TerryLH]

"Im working at a Thai government primary school, which is not yet registered as a school at the social security office, which makes it difficult for me to continue paying SS."

This continues to make no sense to me. Are you also not paying taxes?

If you weren't working you'd be able to pay. There is a short form to fill out to start paying on your own. Tell the SSO that you want to pay on your own until they make the school start collecting for you.

I contacted SS once when a school wasn't going to sign me up. One phone call to the school got them to sign us up almost the same day.

"You cant start the process of applying for the social security, if you havent got a work permit."

You are already in the system, so it's not like starting over - unless you waited too long. There is a time limit on how long you have to start paying on your own. After that you basically go back to square one. Is that what happened?

"Once the work permit is issued, the tax department will be informed and youll have to pay tax from that time on."

Do you think that if they aren't a school, registered or not, that they could apply for and get work permits?

As far as taxes, the Revenue Dept will be happy to take your money and let you file taxes each year with or without a WP.

Stevo and I are pretty much in agreement.

"You say "continue paying SS".

If you are already in the scheme then you can go and pay yourself.

I think that you will also find that you have to go and register at the Tax office yourself. The labour department do not inform them."

[badprimers]

I'm on a non-o now which I got end of May '13. With extensions it will expire end of October and I won't be able to extend due to absence of the 400kbt.

What's the problem extending your permission of stay based on employment?

Sorry, seems that we wrote our posts at the same time. Indeed a very good question, as you do not have any problems to extend your visa at a local Immigration, without leaving the country.

Exactly. Just extend the permission of stay based on employment (reason of necessity 2.6, IO 327/ 2557) ...

OK, so I went to the immigration after work to ask for a check-list. I of course had to deal with the student behind the counter, but after 10 mins. explaining what I would like to do she gave the attached form.

Can any of you confirm this the right one? They didn't have a form in English

Cheers.

[yanyk]

School registration and tax papers

Government schools do not need to provide this documents

1=document from the education office covering your centre

2=document from your school director accepting you to teach in the school.

[SlyAnimal]

That's the right form, as it's asking all the right questions etc

although I've never seen that version of it, they must have updated it (Also usually the form I've used has both English and Thai)

[ericthai]

I believe the confusion is the thinking you are working for a private school so they want the company registration papers. Since you are working for public school they dont have that document. I'm sure the other documents are the Por Ngor Dor 30 & 50 and Por Por 20 which are all tax documents, there is no revenue so no taxes to be paid. I'm sure this is the issue.

Did you submit for a new work permit yet? if so you should have received Tor Thor 3 (WP3) if not then submit a copy of your current work permit. When working for a public school getting a visa is much easier.