<script type='text/javascript'>window.mod_pagespeed_start = Number(new Date());</script>

Have a walk in to Tukcom in Pattaya to see what money they have collected and how they spend it !!

Religion is for the gullible and those lacking common sense!

What a stupid/arrogant thing to say. You are more intelligent than 4 billion or so other people?

So monks aren't allowed to write email, make telephone calls etc?

Do you think they should remain in the dark ages?

Thinking more broadly, IMHO there are many negatives about all religions and their offshoots.

My example is the global 'agency' which looks after children / sponsors their development, invites all to 'sponsor a child'. The outfit with probably the highest world profile.

I nearly did some consulting work for them several years back. Their western and Pilipino staff were simply rude and abrupt, even abused my receptionist with no cause whatever, except that she didn't transfer their phone call to a senior person within 5 seconds.

To cap it all they mentioned that (if they agreed to our proposal) one of their seniors from HO in California would fly business class, stay in Bkk 5 star hotel for a couple of days to attend the signing ceremony / photo op for the contract signing ceremony between their outfit and my company. And the work we were being asked to do had no connection whatever to their supposed reason for existence.

Given the several episodes of abuse and the bus. class / 5 star hotel stuff I withdrew our proposal, which drew further abuse.

Buddhism IS a religion. If you donate money, you should at leat know what you're giving to, what the Sangha etc is.

Granted, Thai Buddhism is a mixture of Theravad Buddhism, Animism and Fetishism, with a bit of Hinduism thrown in.

it is not a religion full stop...who is their god...???? dont be obvious/and wrong at the same time

You obviously have never studied religion.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nontheistic_religions

Clearly neither have you, or if you have you have not understood it.

Just because it may be in Wikipedia doesn't mean it's correct. Anyone can write anything on Wikipedia.

Understood what?

I assure you Buddhism is a religion. I am not a Buddhist but have studied it intensively in the past - retreats in Darmasala (meeting the Dalai Lama and other high lama) and Sarnath(where Buddha gave his first sermon in India. Many retreats in Thailand including Suan Mohk in Chaiya, Surathani. My wife is a Buddhist so I have been to many temples and talked with hundreds of monks over my 2 decades living here.

What are your credentials to make such a inane remark? Apart from being a member on Thai Visa for a week that is.

Edited September 4, 201411 yr by Neeranam

Well every morning the so called real monks come up our soi and 100% if you tossed food in the alms bowls they would be angry about messing the cash up, they stop at every shop and food stall then blurt out a few seconds of chants and get 100bht in the bowl.

Edited September 4, 201411 yr by tingtongfarang

it is not a religion full stop...who is their god...???? dont be obvious/and wrong at the same time

You obviously have never studied religion.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nontheistic_religions

Clearly neither have you, or if you have you have not understood it.

Just because it may be in Wikipedia doesn't mean it's correct. Anyone can write anything on Wikipedia.

Understood what?

I assure you Buddhism is a religion. I am not a Buddhist but have studied it intensively in the past - retreats in Darmasala (meeting the Dalai Lama and other high lama) and Sarnath(where Buddha gave his first sermon in India. Many retreats in Thailand including Suan Mohk in Chaiya, Surathani. My wife is a Buddhist so I have been to many temples and talked with hundreds of monks over my 2 decades living here.

What are your credentials to make such a inane remark? Apart from being a member on Thai Visa for a week that is.

I have credentials, including reading and writing Pali.

Buddhism is a philosophy of paths to choose to live life in a decent way, and helping others along the same path. (The 5 precepts, of which you obviosuly have disdain for the 3rd)

It is thus not a religion, as there is no ultimate deity. As for your meeting the Dalai Lama... which one was that, Ten Gyatso Zin, as there are many?

How many Phramaha have you met or taught, or Somdej Phramaha for that matter? If you'd like a conversation in Pali then PM me - we can start with kamesumicchacaara (kāmesumicchācāra, in Pali), and move on from there, as it seems you have a problem with such. I care not how many posts you've made, but your remarks regarding your own knowledge of Buddhism are remarkable, to say the least. Your kamesu and micchacara in your posting indicates a few problems with your own understanding.

I bet you don't even know what a Phramaha is, until you ask your wife!

What I want to know guys is "Do I need a work permit" if not, where do I sign up.... pass the Chang..!

Have a walk in to Tukcom in Pattaya to see what money they have collected and how they spend it !!

Religion is for the gullible and those lacking common sense!

What a stupid/arrogant thing to say. You are more intelligent than 4 billion or so other people?

So monks aren't allowed to write email, make telephone calls etc?

Do you think they should remain in the dark ages?

Buddhism isn't about material items. Period. Not open to discussion.

I have credentials, including reading and writing Pali.

Buddhism is a philosophy of paths to choose to live life in a decent way, and helping others along the same path. (The 5 precepts, of which you obviosuly have disdain for the 3rd)

It is thus not a religion, as there is no ultimate deity. As for your meeting the Dalai Lama... which one was that, Ten Gyatso Zin, as there are many?

How many Phramaha have you met or taught, or Somdej Phramaha for that matter? If you'd like a conversation in Pali then PM me - we can start with kamesumicchacaara (kāmesumicchācāra, in Pali), and move on from there, as it seems you have a problem with such. I care not how many posts you've made, but your remarks regarding your own knowledge of Buddhism are remarkable, to say the least. Your kamesu and micchacara in your posting indicates a few problems with your own understanding.

I bet you don't even know what a Phramaha is, until you ask your wife!

I'd wager a LOT of money that if you asked 1000 Thais, 999 of them won't know that, or the answer to any serious question you ask them about Buddhism.

I visit "monk chats" here in Chiang Mai as often as my schedule will allow, mostly to practice unused Thai vocab but also for a laugh. It's pure comedy. Most of them have no clue what is going on and if you box them in, their only reply is, "because that's the way it is." Try it for yourself, any of you. It's a good time. Arm yourself with some real questions and have at it, you'll be happy you did. Thank me later.

In Europe if you are to lazy to work you go to the social welfare centre and collect cash, in Thailand you become a fake monk!

[...] Also if they're soliciting cash donations they are not real. Monks are not allowed to collect cash alms by law.

I was mostly joking, but real or fake monks may (indirectly) sollicit cash donations via their (real or fake) kappiya (attendant) or via a (complicit) layman (for instance) with a money tree.

http://www.thaizer.com/culture-shock/money-tree-in-thailand/

Edited September 4, 201411 yr by GuyL

Buddhism IS a religion. If you donate money, you should at leat know what you're giving to, what the Sangha etc is.

Granted, Thai Buddhism is a mixture of Theravad Buddhism, Animism and Fetishism, with a bit of Hinduism thrown in.

it is not a religion full stop...who is their god...???? dont be obvious/and wrong at the same time

It IS a religion. A religion isn't only the belief in a god or in a group of gods, it is also "a personal set or institutionalized system of religious attitudes, beliefs, and practices [...] a cause, principle, or system of beliefs held to with ardor and faith".

Worship is probably the most basic element of religion, but moral conduct, right belief, and participation in religious institutions also constitute elements of the religious life. Religions attempt to answer basic questions intrinsic to the human condition (Why do we suffer? Why is there evil in the world? What happens to us when we die?) through the relationship to the sacred or supernatural or (e.g., in the case of Buddhism) through perception of the true nature of reality. Broadly speaking, some religions (e.g., Judaism, Christianity, and Islam) are outwardly focused, and others (e.g., Jainism, Buddhism) are inwardly focused.

http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/religion?show=0&t=1409870215

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nontheistic_religions

Clearly neither have you, or if you have you have not understood it.

Just because it may be in Wikipedia doesn't mean it's correct. Anyone can write anything on Wikipedia.

Understood what?

I assure you Buddhism is a religion. I am not a Buddhist but have studied it intensively in the past - retreats in Darmasala (meeting the Dalai Lama and other high lama) and Sarnath(where Buddha gave his first sermon in India. Many retreats in Thailand including Suan Mohk in Chaiya, Surathani. My wife is a Buddhist so I have been to many temples and talked with hundreds of monks over my 2 decades living here.

What are your credentials to make such a inane remark? Apart from being a member on Thai Visa for a week that is.

I have credentials, including reading and writing Pali.

Buddhism is a philosophy of paths to choose to live life in a decent way, and helping others along the same path. (The 5 precepts, of which you obviosuly have disdain for the 3rd)

It is thus not a religion, as there is no ultimate deity. As for your meeting the Dalai Lama... which one was that, Ten Gyatso Zin, as there are many?

How many Phramaha have you met or taught, or Somdej Phramaha for that matter? If you'd like a conversation in Pali then PM me - we can start with kamesumicchacaara (kāmesumicchācāra, in Pali), and move on from there, as it seems you have a problem with such. I care not how many posts you've made, but your remarks regarding your own knowledge of Buddhism are remarkable, to say the least. Your kamesu and micchacara in your posting indicates a few problems with your own understanding.

I bet you don't even know what a Phramaha is, until you ask your wife!

What a bizarre post. There are so many discrepancies in it that I am wondering if you actually mean what you write or simply a troll, and not a very good one at that. I rather hope for your own mental well-being that it is not the former.

Are you replying to my post "kamesu and micchacara" in MY posting ??

What on earth do you mean by my "disdain at the 3rd precept"? You either have your precepts mixed up or confusing me with someone else.

I am NOT a Buddhist and to be honest, no Buddhist I know would write such nonsense. A braggart Buddhist

Is being a fake monk stealing without a licence?

We have 3 panhandlers wander down out street on occasion. Once, they attempted to open our gate, but the dog made it very clear that that would be a mistake. I love that dog.

game-set and match to albertosez...and he wasnt even trying...easier than robbing the blind sir

No he lost with the personal attack of the sexual nature.

....as is usually the case....the small-fry.....

...while the big fish have fled overseas long ago....

...why is nobody interested in the jet-set monk that made off with hundreds of millions....

There are many around like them.

Feel sorry mostly for the older people that believe in them and become their victims.

A problem that is very difficult to eradicate, especially in a country that people are devoted to their religion.

It's more a devotion to monks and temples than religion but that's something that's been built over a long time. Maybe there needs to be less monks and less unquestioning belief in them.

What I find a bit uncomfortable is that if I'm with my wife and we see someone begging who looks as if they really need help one or two coins are given but if it's for monks then the 100 baht notes come out. We'll even travel to temples hundreds of kilometres away to give money.

As you say it's very sad for those who have been conned and particularly the older really poor ones. The younger ones should probably do a bit more research into their own religion. My impression is that they tend to just go to temples and give something every so often and that's as far as it goes. The 5 precepts are largely ignored. The monks don't seem to be interested in teaching about Buddhism but just being looked after. Plus of course they're all men.

Monks are often acting as social workers.

They are good people.

Buddhism IS a religion.

You would have to be fairly gullible to be offering alms to fake monk front right..the one with the Michael Jackson hair.

That one is the washer -up, cleaner-driver-dogs body. only the blind would offer to him if dressed in robes.

If they ever bust fake Christians...the churches will be near empty...

Have a walk in to Tukcom in Pattaya to see what money they have collected and how they spend it !!

Religion is for the gullible and those lacking common sense!

Religion or the belief in a higher power, is a personal choice.

Not belieiving in a religion, or a higher power, or pointing out who gullible or lacking common sense, is also a personal choice.

I prefer to let others decide for themselves what path they take. To do otherwise, is not my choice.

Have a walk in to Tukcom in Pattaya to see what money they have collected and how they spend it !!

Religion is for the gullible and those lacking common sense!

What a stupid/arrogant thing to say. You are more intelligent than 4 billion or so other people?

So monks aren't allowed to write email, make telephone calls etc?

Do you think they should remain in the dark ages?

Buddhism isn't about material items. Period. Not open to discussion.

All things are open to discussion by the person who wishes it so.

A period sometimes denotes the end of a sentence. It often does not end the discussion.

Reading the daily news I assume Buddhism becomes a very lucrative industry in the land of Thainess and high moral standards

<script type='text/javascript'>window.mod_pagespeed_start = Number(new Date());</script>

Yea, Buddhism is not a religion and most Thais are atheists ha ha.

I'm an atheist, too. But I don't pray to anyone and/or believe if I give food to men in frocks that I'll come back rich or be exonerated of my sins. I do nice things 'cos it's nice. I want nothing in return.

Semantics. It's a religion.

+1

Another reason why I am an atheist. Even if the religion exists, the "head icon" will easily look in disgust of their followers. Religion in itself, is the concept and way of life, how we individuals should behave and treat each other. That is the real teaching. However, let's look at the mass religious people. "Please, let me have a better life." "Please let me have more money." "God, please help me endure through this hard time" "Please let me pass the next exam."

SELFISH SELFISH SELFISH

I don't completely denounce all religions as an atheist, I still respect their existence as a religion, and absorb in the good concepts they have to teach. We need to learn to be strong and the ability to help others.

Donations? Alms? For what? So the monks can go back to their area and start mumbling something? No thank you. Any resistance I get from this, I ask back, ok, if they are that good, let's make the entire population all monks. That's right, let's see how the world will function. Dead end. Exactly, they are useless trash with their own self made theory of goodness, and all they do in society is TAKE, just like their followers. If today the monks spend most of their time, doing good for society. Helping those in need, have a self sustainable life, and etc. My stance would be different. Monks should plant their own food, and have extra more to give to society that doesn't have anything to eat. Monks should do community service, do the jobs most people won't do. And not assume their status as a self claimed godly figure.

I have long given up any donations to these purposes, and only donate to those who really are in need. In our modern world, I label them as "scamming beggars".

it is not a religion full stop...who is their god...???? dont be obvious/and wrong at the same time

You obviously have never studied religion.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nontheistic_religions

Clearly neither have you, or if you have you have not understood it.

Just because it may be in Wikipedia doesn't mean it's correct. Anyone can write anything on Wikipedia.

Understood what?

I assure you Buddhism is a religion. I am not a Buddhist but have studied it intensively in the past - retreats in Darmasala (meeting the Dalai Lama and other high lama) and Sarnath(where Buddha gave his first sermon in India. Many retreats in Thailand including Suan Mohk in Chaiya, Surathani. My wife is a Buddhist so I have been to many temples and talked with hundreds of monks over my 2 decades living here.

What are your credentials to make such a inane remark? Apart from being a member on Thai Visa for a week that is.

This thread is a prime example of what people are...

Neither one of you cares about Buddhism or religion, you care about "being right" in public. Quoting sources, experiences, flashing technical terms, escalating difference of opinion into quarrels, fueled by disguised mockery and insults.

Your next step might include a jihad with some head chopping, if your oh so developed minds were led by the right people...

Have a walk in to Tukcom in Pattaya to see what money they have collected and how they spend it !!

Religion is for the gullible and those lacking common sense!

What a stupid/arrogant thing to say. You are more intelligent than 4 billion or so other people?

So monks aren't allowed to write email, make telephone calls etc?

Do you think they should remain in the dark ages?

How and where did they get the money to buy those things ?

Do you still believe in the tooth fairy and Father Xmas ? Seriously, I do worry about people like you ?

Do you dress up as a Gladiator before you type your crap on here ?

It's not my concern where they got their money. Once I taught a weekend MBA class at a university in Bangkok where there were 4 monks. The had laptops, mobiles and one even had 3 Dupont gold pens, he showed me as I also had one. You haven't lived in Thailand long have you or you would know the different types of monks.

Would you have them send their assignments to me by snail mail and use an abacus and slate?

What has the tooth fairy or Santa Claus got to do with Buddhism?

In Chiang Mai there's a wat named Jetlin, or close spelling. A monk and I became friends. I bought him a laptop for his studies some years later, a printer for the temple bikkhus. This type of act must be duplicated a hundred different ways. Just my experience.

<script type='text/javascript'>window.mod_pagespeed_start = Number(new Date());</script>

Yea, Buddhism is not a religion and most Thais are atheists ha ha.

I'm an atheist, too. But I don't pray to anyone and/or believe if I give food to men in frocks that I'll come back rich or be exonerated of my sins. I do nice things 'cos it's nice. I want nothing in return.

Semantics. It's a religion.

+1

Another reason why I am an atheist. Religion in itself, is the concept and way of life, how we individuals should behave and treat each other. That is the real teaching.

I don't completely denounce all religions as an atheist, I still respect their existence as a religion, and absorb in the good concepts they have to teach. We need to learn to be strong and the ability to help others.

And only donate to those who really are in need.

Did cut out your post a little to keep what I believe is a big part of any religion.

The other big part is "believing".

Conclusion, you are religious....

And Atheism IS a religion

The proof is: You believe there is no god, very religiously and behave yourself well, helping those who are in need.

You would have to be fairly gullible to be offering alms to fake monk front right..the one with the Michael Jackson hair.

Classified as a temple assistant.

One reason I don't make any donations - either they are fakes or if "real" a lot of the time lazy lay-about's sponging on the Thai people. Genuine monks don't come with their hands out.

The genuine monks go out every day to collect alms -- be it food or clothing or medicine. What are you talking about?

When the monks go "out for alms" they are not going for the purpose of collecting anything. They do it for the people that want to receive the prayers and blessings.

The people in return for their services like to donate, therefore the monks allow them to do so and make is easier and more humble by carrying something to keep and carry the offerings from the people. They also don't have to touch the "gifts".

It is disrespectful to turn down a gift, regardless of what it is, so by the good graces of the monks, they accommodate the people's wishes.

These guys are no worse than many real monks. Many real monks are actually worse than these guys. It seems like every week I hear about more and more real monks in Thailand being arrested for participating in/using child sex trafficking rings.

The lesson here should be not to stop the fake monks, just stop giving your money/support away to people who you don't know what they will do with it.

What I want to know guys is "Do I need a work permit" if not, where do I sign up.... pass the Chang..!

Troll

Needs deleting

Have a walk in to Tukcom in Pattaya to see what money they have collected and how they spend it !!

Religion is for the gullible and those lacking common sense!

What a stupid/arrogant thing to say. You are more intelligent than 4 billion or so other people?

So monks aren't allowed to write email, make telephone calls etc?

Do you think they should remain in the dark ages?

Here's a link stating that well known fact (at least with educated people)

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/science/religious-people-are-less-intelligent-than-atheists-according-to-analysis-of-scores-of-scientific-studies-stretching-back-over-decades-8758046.html

kudos to the army... not everything in Thailand is as it seems...