Graft fight a 'national priority'

[trogers]

No leader will survive long while cleaning corruption out of government. Even Pope John XXIII could not survive the purification of the Vatican. A leader's power is only as lasting and as strong as the power of his supporters. And since many of the powerful hierarchy in any political entity achieved their influence through corruption, they need contimued corruption for their own survival as well as their leaders'. Corruption is as essential to politicians as breathing. If Prayeuth wants to persist in this mission, he'd better watch his back, and never have a meal without a food taster.

Say that to Lee Kuan Yew back in 1965...lol

[hiller]

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Ok the general sounds good. But will he try to pull in the convicted fugitive and the red bull cop killer?

How about the submarine base? The bomb detectors? The Swedish jet fighters? The current telecoms scams (post-Yingluck and massively dwarfing any wrongs she may or may not have committed in scale - and ongoing).

Increase in the military budget by 486, 000,000,000 Billion Baht.

[DekDaeng]

This from a man who's just put all his mates in parliament?

I don't see that in itself being wrong - he may be putting them there because he knows they are straight.

What they do there may be a problem tho.

A bit of capital punishment might help define the straight & narrow.

[Alwyn]

It seems most TV members are locked in the Thaksin?YL thing and believe this to be the root of ALL evil in Thailand. Graft and corruption has been rife in Thailand for centuries and is deep rooted into all the veins running through society, this is why Thaksin was able to get away with what he was doing, the problem was(for him) he displaced the so called wealthy elite's nostrils from the trough and the little war about who should be running the corruption started. If you believe Thaksin started corruption in Thailand, please come and see me I have a nice timeshare I want to sell....

[butch333]

the problem is that the thai population is corrupted , all of them , it's in the thai mentality , i'm not sûre that thet are ready to change

[butch333]

the big and only problem in Thailand is that all population is corrupted , it's inside the thai mentality , and i'm sûre that they are not ready to change , no education , " no respect for each other , only selfish , " ME ME and only ME " , for changing this mentality it ll take at least 2 generations , let's see in 30 years

[maxme]

Ok the general sounds good. But will he try to pull in the convicted fugitive and the red bull cop killer?

Did you ask that question to the last government especially when the foreign ministers cousin had the ministry open during the floods of 2011 to issue a passport to the convicted fugitive?

I don't think that I heard your voice when the Red Bill policeman killer ran away under the lasy government either.

Your question should be addressed to the previous government before this one.

So are you saying that only some governments should fall under scrutiny and some not?

[atyclb]

Lets face it , this will be an issue in a hundred years time , they don't get it , you can solve some of this corruption but not the grassroots level , even Mum and Dad, Grandad, Sister cousin are in corruption, the population is corrupt, question is how did you change this mind set, all that Thailand has going for it in this area is some of it's Asean cousins are in the same boat.

More anti-Thai BS.

The grassroots people in this country are not corrupt they have put up with corruption because they have had no choice.

If they wanted something done on an official level they had to grease the wheels, if a cop stopped them they had to reach into their pocket.

The people on the street don't cheat each other nor do they cheat others, sure there are those in tourist destinations or big cities who do for the crooks and cheats migrate to where they think they can find easy targets.

though not 100% of society there have been extensively articles by a thai academic / journalist , voranai vanijaka, about cheating and corruption being widespread, diffuse and at all levels of society. i have thai friends that also comment on how common it is for thais to cheat each other and seek bribes, at all levels.

[Robby nz]

Lets face it , this will be an issue in a hundred years time , they don't get it , you can solve some of this corruption but not the grassroots level , even Mum and Dad, Grandad, Sister cousin are in corruption, the population is corrupt, question is how did you change this mind set, all that Thailand has going for it in this area is some of it's Asean cousins are in the same boat.

More anti-Thai BS.

The grassroots people in this country are not corrupt they have put up with corruption because they have had no choice.

If they wanted something done on an official level they had to grease the wheels, if a cop stopped them they had to reach into their pocket.

The people on the street don't cheat each other nor do they cheat others, sure there are those in tourist destinations or big cities who do for the crooks and cheats migrate to where they think they can find easy targets.

Your funny " the people on the street dont cheat each other"..... go to any village and see how it is!

They certainly don't in the town where I live, if they did nobody would deal with them.

I give you an example : Last week we had lunch at a small place on the main street where we had never been before, the Mrs paid with a handful of change and when we were leaving the lady came up and handed back a 1 baht coin, she had been overpaid and wanted to return 1 baht.

And another, see this photo ?

That's a bunch of bananas hanging out over a soi, these are all around here and no one steals them, they belong to the owner of the adjacent property.

[wilcopops]

Lets face it , this will be an issue in a hundred years time , they don't get it , you can solve some of this corruption but not the grassroots level , even Mum and Dad, Grandad, Sister cousin are in corruption, the population is corrupt, question is how did you change this mind set, all that Thailand has going for it in this area is some of it's Asean cousins are in the same boat.

More anti-Thai BS.

The grassroots people in this country are not corrupt they have put up with corruption because they have had no choice.

If they wanted something done on an official level they had to grease the wheels, if a cop stopped them they had to reach into their pocket.

The people on the street don't cheat each other nor do they cheat others, sure there are those in tourist destinations or big cities who do for the crooks and cheats migrate to where they think they can find easy targets.

It is a constant source of surprise to me that people who have lived in Thailand for a considerable amount of time still have no idea of how endemic corruption , nepotism and graft is in the country or of its roots.

it is of course that they don't actually understand what corruption actually is - it is FAR MORE than handing over money in brown paper bags. In Thailand it is a deeply ingrained cultural problem and frequently so well accepted it isn't even considered corruption by those taking part.

690% of a recent survey said that "corruption" was OK by them if it befitted them by "oiling the wheels" of government.

what they fail to realise is how it holds back the economy, holds back meritocracy, holds back development of infrastructure and holds the population in a perpetual grip of repression.

[wilcopops]

It seems most TV members are locked in the Thaksin?YL thing and believe this to be the root of ALL evil in Thailand. Graft and corruption has been rife in Thailand for centuries and is deep rooted into all the veins running through society, this is why Thaksin was able to get away with what he was doing, the problem was(for him) he displaced the so called wealthy elite's nostrils from the trough and the little war about who should be running the corruption started. If you believe Thaksin started corruption in Thailand, please come and see me I have a nice timeshare I want to sell....

Hear! Hear! - I've said this before - anyone who thinks that Thaksin is anything more than a symptom is seriously ignorant of what is actually happening in Thailand.

[wilcopops]

This from a man who's just put all his mates in parliament?

I don't see that in itself being wrong - he may be putting them there because he knows they are straight.

What they do there may be a problem tho.

A bit of capital punishment might help define the straight & narrow.

Your naivety leaves a lot to be desired!...or maybe you think there's "good" corruption and "bad" corruption?...be nice to hear how you can stop one without the other.

Edited September 7, 2014 by wilcopops

[bapak]

Any new law against corruption must include both the giver and receiver being penalised.

[Halion]

Admirable, but just words at present. If truly committed then a good start would be to ensure that Yingluck is prosecuted to the full extent of the law. Anything less is truly smoke and mirrors.

[h90]

they can start with a corruption report hotline ?

my so called brother in law (not really, just boyfriend of sister-in-law) ... bought 2 nice 30 million baht houses in hi-so village ... does (did) lobby work for YL , connecting entreprises that would like to get gov. contracts, do i need to say more ?

was so kind to put one house on the girlfriends name and one on his mother's name ... just in case things would get sauer ...

mother in law, loves him ... she loves money even more ... she does not care where it comes from ... not that he has to give money to her, she is more than rich enough being a mia noi of a rich businessman

5555555

One of our neighbors has a villa here...well it is more a palace and 3 or 4 new cars (he and his wife have 3 or 4 cars, to have some choice).

He is policeman....must be a nice salary....

[Eric Loh]

Admirable, but just words at present. If truly committed then a good start would be to ensure that Yingluck is prosecuted to the full extent of the law. Anything less is truly smoke and mirrors.

Just this one prosecution and you feel it's fighting graft as a national priority. You are either an easy man to please or you just being purposefully selective.

[aidon]

What a load of crap ... fighting graft and corruption, just walk down any Soi in Bangkok and see who (shall remain nameless) comes to collect 'soey'.

Does anyone believe that corruption can be stamped out when it is deeply ingrained in the roots of society!

[Sarathi]

"He also warned that younger people would copy the wrong values about corruption if they discovered that many corrupt officials and politicians could get away with it."

while we just found out:

Matichon did some digging and found that they were Bosch microphones (Bosch DCN multimedia is the product name) which were retailing for 99,000 Baht a piece, but less than a day later the price had been pushed up to 199,000 a piece

Curiously it was the whistle blowers occupation of Government House that caused it to be trashed, and in need of refurbishment. Also in the article :

Prayuth blamed the deep-rooted problem for the social division and political conflict which led to fatal street protests and other violent acts over the past decade.

While most of the protests and violent acts were down to yellow shirts, and whistle blowers taking over government house several times, blockading roads and Ministries etc.. Add in the Red Shirts, and this is clearly not protests against corruption, and more a case of rival power-brokers manipulating all the variables, ensuring the corruption flows their own way.

[SaamBaht]

So, the good General takes over the country at the barrel of a gun. He then takes over all the state run companies, giving cushy jobs to his army buddies, and if you think that isn't much, remember Thailand's state run enterprises generate billions in annual revenue. Then he packs the highest government body with military men and other allies and appoints himself big cheese.

Then he says, it's time to take down Thailand's real thieves.

[catweazle]

H for hypocrisy
E for erratic
L for lame
L for ludicrous
O for "Oh my god!"

...not that I am implying anything here, just practicing my ABC

Edited September 7, 2014 by catweazle

[ozyjon]

If it goes ahead i won't be able to get anything done

[beautifulthailand99]

So, the good General takes over the country at the barrel of a gun. He then takes over all the state run companies, giving cushy jobs to his army buddies, and if you think that isn't much, remember Thailand's state run enterprises generate billions in annual revenue. Then he packs the highest government body with military men and other allies and appoints himself big cheese.

Then he says, it's time to take down Thailand's real thieves.

Very true - the cops were (are) in charge of the street level graft - the army are higher up the food chain - all 'eat a lot' as the Thai's say. Evolution not revolution and slowly slowly catchee monkey would be preferable to bulldozing in and shooting from the hip which seems to be the way at the moment. Time will tell.

[Thai at Heart]

It seems most TV members are locked in the Thaksin?YL thing and believe this to be the root of ALL evil in Thailand. Graft and corruption has been rife in Thailand for centuries and is deep rooted into all the veins running through society, this is why Thaksin was able to get away with what he was doing, the problem was(for him) he displaced the so called wealthy elite's nostrils from the trough and the little war about who should be running the corruption started. If you believe Thaksin started corruption in Thailand, please come and see me I have a nice timeshare I want to sell....

There isn't a senior politician in any party in Thailand who isn't either personally worth or who has family worth millions either through business, land or access to govt business.

They are all bent. Seriously bent.

[Alwyn]

It seems most TV members are locked in the Thaksin?YL thing and believe this to be the root of ALL evil in Thailand. Graft and corruption has been rife in Thailand for centuries and is deep rooted into all the veins running through society, this is why Thaksin was able to get away with what he was doing, the problem was(for him) he displaced the so called wealthy elite's nostrils from the trough and the little war about who should be running the corruption started. If you believe Thaksin started corruption in Thailand, please come and see me I have a nice timeshare I want to sell....

There isn't a senior politician in any party in Thailand who isn't either personally worth or who has family worth millions either through business, land or access to govt business.

They are all bent. Seriously bent.

I couldn't agree more!

[mogo51]

my gf who teaches teenage Thai students, has many discussions with her pupils over day to day issues. They know without exceptions, that the education system is corrupt and think it is normal - clean up Education system would be an ideal start.

[Keesters]

Wasting his time preaching to the adult Thai population. Graft is too deeply intrenched there. Better to concentrate on the young in schools, colleges and universities. They are Thailand's future.

[gemguy]

If that is the case then first priority is building the Thai prison system about 10 times larger than it is....maybe 20 times larger.......because they will need the increased capacity to handle all the criminals convicted of graft and corruption.

[gemguy]

We all know it is not going to change, at least to any significant degree.

Most Thai people do not see eye to eye concerning the words corruption and graft and the meaning of the words and or what they imply.

To the Thais, it is how it is and it works for them also right down to the lowest levels.....although they do not readily admit they are part of the over all problem while they commonly utilize the various forms of corruption when it suits them also.

Of course they all like to point the fingers at the people who enrich themselves in a huge way through the various means of graft and corruption but seldom to they hesitate to participate themselves in a number of ways and means when it suits their particular agenda concerning any number of circumstances they may find themselves confronted by.

A little bit of money paid here and there to speed up the paper work or by pass the paper work and regulations or an introduction by a friend to a police officer or government official or a connected go between person that can speed things up...for a sum of money.

The average Thai will whip out their wallet and offer the police officer or government official 100 baht or what ever amount...... (before ) the police officer or the government official ever asks for it or demands it.

But not always of course while the average Thai citizen is well aware that the corrupt practices can be utilized to their advantage also....if need be....so they are always ready to pay, if need be, when it is asked of them knowing the cooperation may not be afforded them if they refuse to pay and then be a whistle blower and expose the police officer or government official as corrupted.

So, in effect, it is somewhat like the chicken and the egg question....which came first??...or how did it develop and evolve to this extent?

Did the people corrupt the officials or did the officials corrupt the citizens as both parties will participate when it suits both parties agenda.

They think of the money as being part of their operating cost and or the convenience of smoothing things over knowing that the pay off option is nearly always available to them concerning ( most ) circumstances.

Everyone commonly laments the graft and corruption but when it is useful to each individual nearly everyone utilizes the many and varied means of graft and corruption that are known to be available or present themselves.

I am not saying I condone it but it is what it is and it will never go away as it is in part , a big part, of how the Thai nation runs itself and accomplishes what it does accomplish.

It gets in the way yet it also clears the way in many circumstances.

If the country was to actually become totally honest and no corruption and graft and be the way it should be, in theory and by the book, so to speak, I can assure you everyone would be lamenting how it used to be better in many aspects before the corruption and graft was totally eliminated.

Instead of paying off the police officer when they pull you over for a small infraction of the traffic laws you then have to accept the 200 or 2000 baht fine, for example, and pay the fine at a designated place and often enough go to somewhat great lengths to address the issue just because you did not turn on your blinker signal when making a right hand turn that day while a police officer, performing his sworn duty, pulls you over and fines you and can not be paid on the spot, with a warning, Rather you have to do it by the book and to the letter of the law and all the headaches involved.

That is the way it should be ...but still, most people would simply pay a fine right there and be done with it rather than say: "Oh no officer, please fine me the full amount and lets do this by the book and the both of us do our part to eliminate this pervasive social problem called graft and corruption"

On the other hand totally corrupted police officers that are actually a form of Mafia in themselves...well ...that is the main aim of a crack down on corruption and everyone wants that to be addressed for good reasons.

Government officials that literally steal billions of dollars of public funding and in turn effect tens of thousands or millions of people because of their shallow greed is a condition everyone wants to be corrected and for good reasons.

If ever there was a contentious social issue then graft and corruption, practiced by a nation, would be at the top of the list in any nation.

Edited September 8, 2014 by gemguy

[Keesters]

Instead of paying off the police officer when they pull you over for a small infraction of the traffic laws you then have to accept the 200 or 2000 baht fine, for example, and pay the fine at a designated place and often enough go to great lengths to address the issue just because you did not turn on your blinker signal when making a right hand turn that day while a police officer, performing his sworn duty, pulls you over and fines you and can not be paid on the spot, with a warning, Rather you have to do it by the book and to the letter of the law and all the headaches involved.

That is the way it should be ...but still most people would simply pay a fine right there and be done with it rather than say: "Oh no officer, please fine me the full amount and lets do this by the book and the both of us do our part to eliminate this pervasive social problem called graft and corruption"

Accepting the proper and full fine is not only a headache for you (the fined) but a headache for the police as well. First the cop who caught you has to fill in a ticket. Then a fine duty clerk at the police station has to take the fine and issue receipt. Then there is probably a lot more paperwork that the police then have to do now they officially have your fine as it has to be distributed around the proper channels. I'd suggest it is more or at least as much of a headache for them than it is for you.

Incidentally for the few times I've been fined for a traffic violation the official fine has always turned out much less than the cop who caught me asked for. But then when they see Farang they don't see me they see $$$$.

Edited September 8, 2014 by Keesters

[gemguy]

Instead of paying off the police officer when they pull you over for a small infraction of the traffic laws you then have to accept the 200 or 2000 baht fine, for example, and pay the fine at a designated place and often enough go to great lengths to address the issue just because you did not turn on your blinker signal when making a right hand turn that day while a police officer, performing his sworn duty, pulls you over and fines you and can not be paid on the spot, with a warning, Rather you have to do it by the book and to the letter of the law and all the headaches involved.

That is the way it should be ...but still most people would simply pay a fine right there and be done with it rather than say: "Oh no officer, please fine me the full amount and lets do this by the book and the both of us do our part to eliminate this pervasive social problem called graft and corruption"

Accepting the proper and full fine is not only a headache for you (the fined) but a headache for the police as well. First the cop who caught you has to fill in a ticket. Then a fine duty clerk at the police station has to take the fine and issue receipt. Then there is probably a lot more paperwork that the police then have to do now they officially have your fine as it has to be distributed around the proper channels. I'd suggest it is more or at least as much of a headache for them than it is for you.

Incidentally for the few times I've been fined for a traffic violation the official fine has always turned out much less than the cop who caught me asked for. But then when they see Farang they don't see me they see $$$$.

True .....I would not argue other wise.

But remember it is always negotiable when done in a amiable way.

Some people would pay the officer and then ask for his cell phone number and tell him they may need his assistance at some time in the future.

As in: "Nice to meet you officer ...can I rely on your help at sometime in the future...maybe?"

Although having police officer ( acquaintances ) can be a liability somewhere down the line, usually they would be more of an asset and helpful if you do run into problems at a future date.

It is like making friends with the immigration officials, rather than believing you should always stay clear of them is the better policy.