Several northern Thai provinces under deep floodwater

[webfact]

Several northern Thai provinces under deep floodwater
By Digital Content

PHICHIT, Sept 8 -- Several northern Thai provinces are now devastated by severe flooding and residents, especially farmers, are suffering as floodwaters continue to rise, officials said Sunday.

In Phichit province, floods inundated more than 2,000 rai growing fragrant rice in Sam Ngam district which is already affected by forest runoff from Kamphaeng Phet province and from heavy downpours in the past few days, officials said.

They said the heavy forest runoff has damaged a sluice gate in one village, making it difficult to control water from the runoff.

The excess water then covered farmland and damaged rice stalks which had started to ripen.

Farmers later complained to the Sam Ngam district officer, urging him to speed up draining floodwater from their farms to the Yom River as quickly as possible.

Farmers still hoped that if floodwater could be drained to the river within the next one or two days, most of their crops could survive, officials said.

The water level in the Chao Phraya River in Ang Thong province is now reaching a critical level, forcing governor Pawin Chamniprasart to discuss with concerned agencies, including the army, on ways to tackle the flooding problem.

Of 205 canals in Ang Thong, the water level in 17 of them is now almost overflowing while another four need to solve problems immediately, officials said.

A ‘task force centre has been established in the province to deal with the emergency.

The situation in Ang Thong’s Pa Mok district is also worrisome.

People living along the banks of Chao Phraya River are concerned after finding that the river has risen rapidly. Many have already moved their valuables to higher ground. (MCOT online news)

-- TNA 2014-09-08

[laurentbkk]

Do I need to bring upstairs all the furniture once again ?

[clockman]

One day they will understand physics!

[NeverSure]

"The water level in the Chao Phraya River in Ang Thong province is now reaching a critical level, forcing governor Pawin Chamniprasart to discuss with concerned agencies, including the army, on ways to tackle the flooding problem."

Yes of course, now would be a good time to consider working on a plan. TiT

[lee b]

Do I need to bring upstairs all the furniture once again ?

Put it on the roof hahaha, luckily im on the 5th floor so hope wont be any problem

[Zumteufel]

I feel sorry for the affected. But for Pete's sake, we ALL know this is happening year after year after year. Find a long term solution, dammit!

[Happyman108]

Think is one of the reason why some prefer to live in a Condo over a landed house

[Old Man River]

I feel sorry for the affected. But for Pete's sake, we ALL know this is happening year after year after year. Find a long term solution, dammit!

After the 2011 floods, World Bank experts offered a solution and arranged for an IMF soft loan. The PTP respectfully declined and came up with their own plan.

Sent from my iPad using Thaivisa Connect Thailand

[ezzra]

Been hearing the same crap year in year out, for the last 25 years, you'd think with all the billions and zillions

this movement squandered on other silly, frivolous causes, they'd find, finally,

a long lasting solution to ease the situation and make it better, nooooo, not to be........

[bheard]

Think is one of the reason why some prefer to live in a Condo over a landed house

Errrr, the foundations ok?

[ratcatcher]

Think is one of the reason why some prefer to live in a Condo over a landed house

Errrr, the foundations ok?

Some. Those people who realize Thai condos are not always built to the highest standards wisely decide to try alternative lodgings.

And those farmers and families in the flood path do not have the option of moving up to the 9th floor.

Many trusted previous PMs, who stated that, "Heck, floods are a thing of the past, fear not"

[garrya]

"The water level in the Chao Phraya River in Ang Thong province is now reaching a critical level, forcing governor Pawin Chamniprasart to discuss with concerned agencies, including the army, on ways to tackle the flooding problem."

Yes of course, now would be a good time to consider working on a plan. TiT

The likes of Mr Pawin would lose their jobs easily in a fair society. But this is Thailand, so no one can hurt him.

[rickirs]

<script type='text/javascript'>window.mod_pagespeed_start = Number(new Date());</script>

I feel sorry for the affected. But for Pete's sake, we ALL know this is happening year after year after year. Find a long term solution, dammit!

After the 2011 floods, World Bank experts offered a solution and arranged for an IMF soft loan. The PTP respectfully declined and came up with their own plan.


Sent from my iPad using Thaivisa Connect Thailand

You may have made an inadvertent "soft" slur against the PTP government. The government appears to have been responsible in its handling of the 2011 flood devastation.

The World Bank Nov. 2011 “Rapid Assessment for Resilient Recovery and Reconstruction Planning” report was advisory and a compilation of virtual "pie in the sky" solutions without regard to Thailand's economic ability to finance every recommendation. The government did what governments do, develop its own financial plans to meet its economic and security needs without driving the country into significant inflation and loss of GDP growth.

The government did immediately self-financed short-term loans to support resident needs whom were impacted from the floods. For the affected industrial sector the Industry Minister and Deputy Finance Minister agreed to provide an immediate 15 billion baht low interest ("soft") loan to the Industrial State Authority covering four industrial parks to support the implementation of the flood prevention plan going forward.

Credit Suisse did an assessment of the government's post-flood recovery plan and held in part that from the government's planned investment, 1) the GDP growth rate for 2012 will increase from 3% to 3.8%, and 2) an annual 5% increase in GDP for the next five years.

The G-7 industrialized countries dominate the WB and IMF lending policies. No doubt if Thailand wanted to request an IMF/World Bank loan it had sufficient credit to do so. However, with such loans come with social and economic pre-conditions that can result in the loss of a country’s authority to govern its own economy and even its foreign policy. Thailand was wise to provide its own means of recovery.

[tezzainoz]

This is all newspaper BS

there is no floods in the North

Yingluck promise her chosen people their will be no flood after the year

[a99az]

<script type='text/javascript'>window.mod_pagespeed_start = Number(new Date());</script>

Do I need to bring upstairs all the furniture once again ?

Put it on the roof hahaha, luckily im on the 5th floor so hope wont be any problem

Just love the "I'm alright Jack" brigade, don't you.

[darondc]

hmmm...Thailand under military rule. Guess its time for them boys to work and dredge every canal of its trash and years of build up.

Sent from my GT-I9500 using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

[Don Aleman]

Much of the grief could have been minimized if ,for decades, Thai authorities had listened/implemented suggestions from people who know how to anticipate and prepare for disasters, especially those that happen every year :

1). Manufacture inexpensive plastic boats

2). Stock up on MREs, ( meals ready to eat

3). Manufacture the floating portable toilets invented by a Thai college

4). Store all the above in regional warehouses near known flood areas

5). Set up evacuation routes and publicize them with pamphlets

6). At the first sign of flooding distribute as needed, the stored supplies- free !

7). Many other ideas to numerous to list

I think the very last word, ( free ), caused a stumbling block !

[ratcatcher]

hmmm...Thailand under military rule. Guess its time for them boys to work and dredge every canal of its trash and years of build up.

Sent from my GT-I9500 using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

You are correct. It's too bad the action wasn't taken by the PTP government who had two years after the 2011 floods in which to start alleviation of problem areas. Now the new government has to do what they were unable or unwilling to do and yes, that includes clearing and dredging..

[rubl]

<script type='text/javascript'>window.mod_pagespeed_start = Number(new Date());</script>

I feel sorry for the affected. But for Pete's sake, we ALL know this is happening year after year after year. Find a long term solution, dammit!

After the 2011 floods, World Bank experts offered a solution and arranged for an IMF soft loan. The PTP respectfully declined and came up with their own plan.

You may have made an inadvertent "soft" slur against the PTP government. The government appears to have been responsible in its handling of the 2011 flood devastation.

The World Bank Nov. 2011 “Rapid Assessment for Resilient Recovery and Reconstruction Planning” report was advisory and a compilation of virtual "pie in the sky" solutions without regard to Thailand's economic ability to finance every recommendation. The government did what governments do, develop its own financial plans to meet its economic and security needs without driving the country into significant inflation and loss of GDP growth.

The government did immediately self-financed short-term loans to support resident needs whom were impacted from the floods. For the affected industrial sector the Industry Minister and Deputy Finance Minister agreed to provide an immediate 15 billion baht low interest ("soft") loan to the Industrial State Authority covering four industrial parks to support the implementation of the flood prevention plan going forward.

Credit Suisse did an assessment of the government's post-flood recovery plan and held in part that from the government's planned investment, 1) the GDP growth rate for 2012 will increase from 3% to 3.8%, and 2) an annual 5% increase in GDP for the next five years.

the G-7 industrialized countries dominate the WB and IMF lending policies. No doubt if Thailand wanted to request an IMF/World Bank loan it had sufficient credit to do so. However, with such loans come with social and economic pre-conditions that can result in the loss of a country’s authority to govern its own economy and even its foreign policy. Thailand was wise to provide its own means of recovery.

Right, that's why the Yingluck Administration rushed through a special decree in January 2012 to allow them to borrow 350 billion Baht for a very urgent Water Management Plan. They had 1-1/2 year and when they tried to rush through contract to be able to claim the budget it seemed some steps were 'forgotten'. Minor points only, like involvement of those affected, Environmental Impact Studies and the like. Following these urgent issues couldn't be pressured enough as the government needed more time for really important issues, like someone amnesty.

Of course, up-to-a-point it was just bad luck to have the worst flooding in a century or so happen under the Yingluck Administration. Could have happened under any.

[Old Man River]

I feel sorry for the affected. But for Pete's sake, we ALL know this is happening year after year after year. Find a long term solution, dammit!

After the 2011 floods, World Bank experts offered a solution and arranged for an IMF soft loan. The PTP respectfully declined and came up with their own plan.

Sent from my iPad using Thaivisa Connect Thailand

You may have made an inadvertent "soft" slur against the PTP government. The government appears to have been responsible in its handling of the 2011 flood devastation.

The World Bank Nov. 2011 “Rapid Assessment for Resilient Recovery and Reconstruction Planning” report was advisory and a compilation of virtual "pie in the sky" solutions without regard to Thailand's economic ability to finance every recommendation. The government did what governments do, develop its own financial plans to meet its economic and security needs without driving the country into significant inflation and loss of GDP growth.

The government did immediately self-financed short-term loans to support resident needs whom were impacted from the floods. For the affected industrial sector the Industry Minister and Deputy Finance Minister agreed to provide an immediate 15 billion baht low interest ("soft") loan to the Industrial State Authority covering four industrial parks to support the implementation of the flood prevention plan going forward.

Credit Suisse did an assessment of the government's post-flood recovery plan and held in part that from the government's planned investment, 1) the GDP growth rate for 2012 will increase from 3% to 3.8%, and 2) an annual 5% increase in GDP for the next five years.

The G-7 industrialized countries dominate the WB and IMF lending policies. No doubt if Thailand wanted to request an IMF/World Bank loan it had sufficient credit to do so. However, with such loans come with social and economic pre-conditions that can result in the loss of a country’s authority to govern its own economy and even its foreign policy. Thailand was wise to provide its own means of recovery.

Instead of writing World Bank experts, I should have written experts from the World Bank. Whether they were still with the World Bank at the time, I don't know, but they were able to arrange a soft loan from the IMF.

What I am referring to is a specific plan that was designed for Thailand and was similar in nature to systems already in use in other parts of Asia.

There obviously is no quick fix for this, but out of curiosity, what flood prevention/control plan did the Thai government ultimately come up with and pre-coup, how far along was it?

Edited September 8, 2014 by Old Man River

[Ve37]

I feel sorry for the affected. But for Pete's sake, we ALL know this is happening year after year after year. Find a long term solution, dammit!

And stop posting Headlines that read Northern Thailand Devastated. Very nice weather in Chiang Mai,...and no flood problems. There is a problem with low tourism though.

[Happyman108]

<script type='text/javascript'>window.mod_pagespeed_start = Number(new Date());</script>

Think is one of the reason why some prefer to live in a Condo over a landed house

Errrr, the foundations ok?

So far so good, even after few earthquake recently not even a crack

[mrfill]

I feel sorry for the affected. But for Pete's sake, we ALL know this is happening year after year after year. Find a long term solution, dammit!

After the 2011 floods, World Bank experts offered a solution and arranged for an IMF soft loan. The PTP respectfully declined and came up with their own plan.

Sent from my iPad using Thaivisa Connect Thailand

Was that the plan to have 5000 helicopters running to blow the rain back into the sky?

[halloween]

<script type='text/javascript'>window.mod_pagespeed_start = Number(new Date());</script>

You may have made an inadvertent "soft" slur against the PTP government. The government appears to have been responsible in its handling of the 2011 flood devastation.

The World Bank Nov. 2011 “Rapid Assessment for Resilient Recovery and Reconstruction Planning” report was advisory and a compilation of virtual "pie in the sky" solutions without regard to Thailand's economic ability to finance every recommendation. The government did what governments do, develop its own financial plans to meet its economic and security needs without driving the country into significant inflation and loss of GDP growth.

The government did immediately self-financed short-term loans to support resident needs whom were impacted from the floods. For the affected industrial sector the Industry Minister and Deputy Finance Minister agreed to provide an immediate 15 billion baht low interest ("soft") loan to the Industrial State Authority covering four industrial parks to support the implementation of the flood prevention plan going forward.

Credit Suisse did an assessment of the government's post-flood recovery plan and held in part that from the government's planned investment, 1) the GDP growth rate for 2012 will increase from 3% to 3.8%, and 2) an annual 5% increase in GDP for the next five years.

The G-7 industrialized countries dominate the WB and IMF lending policies. No doubt if Thailand wanted to request an IMF/World Bank loan it had sufficient credit to do so. However, with such loans come with social and economic pre-conditions that can result in the loss of a country’s authority to govern its own economy and even its foreign policy. Thailand was wise to provide its own means of recovery.

I see that you forgot to mention that they were busy blowing THB500 billion on the rice scam, quite a bit of which was going into their own pockets. Oh, and planning to borrow trillions for an ever-shrinking HSR train set, which anyone could see was far more important to most Thais (at least, those that matter) than flood mitigation, issuing passports for criminals, buying garbage tablets, arranging visas for criminals, stopping police investigations of the red shirts, arranging amnesties for criminals including the crimes they were currently committing and planning, etc. Quite good economic management in all, some would say.

[DeepInTheForest]

[thread edited]

After the 2011 floods, World Bank experts offered a solution and arranged for an IMF soft loan. The PTP respectfully declined and came up with their own plan.

Sent from my iPad using Thaivisa Connect Thailand

You may have made an inadvertent "soft" slur against the PTP government. The government appears to have been responsible in its handling of the 2011 flood devastation.

The World Bank Nov. 2011 “Rapid Assessment for Resilient Recovery and Reconstruction Planning” report was advisory and a compilation of virtual "pie in the sky" solutions without regard to Thailand's economic ability to finance every recommendation. The government did what governments do, develop its own financial plans to meet its economic and security needs without driving the country into significant inflation and loss of GDP growth.

The government did immediately self-financed short-term loans to support resident needs whom were impacted from the floods. For the affected industrial sector the Industry Minister and Deputy Finance Minister agreed to provide an immediate 15 billion baht low interest ("soft") loan to the Industrial State Authority covering four industrial parks to support the implementation of the flood prevention plan going forward.

Credit Suisse did an assessment of the government's post-flood recovery plan and held in part that from the government's planned investment, 1) the GDP growth rate for 2012 will increase from 3% to 3.8%, and 2) an annual 5% increase in GDP for the next five years.

The G-7 industrialized countries dominate the WB and IMF lending policies. No doubt if Thailand wanted to request an IMF/World Bank loan it had sufficient credit to do so. However, with such loans come with social and economic pre-conditions that can result in the loss of a country’s authority to govern its own economy and even its foreign policy. Thailand was wise to provide its own means of recovery.

Instead of writing World Bank experts, I should have written experts from the World Bank. Whether they were still with the World Bank at the time, I don't know, but they were able to arrange a soft loan from the IMF.

What I am referring to is a specific plan that was designed for Thailand and was similar in nature to systems already in use in other parts of Asia.

There obviously is no quick fix for this, but out of curiosity, what flood prevention/control plan did the Thai government ultimately come up with and pre-coup, how far along was it?

The point seems to be that you're not quite sure what the plan from the World Bank/IMF people was, or where it originated, but you are quite sure it was good, and that the failure to pursue it was regrettable.

For myself, if I were a developing country and the IMF/WB came calling with their plans, I would smile, thank them for their suggestions, and escort them to the door as soon as possible. And I would avoid taking loans from them at all costs.

When the Economist, of all publications, tries to defend them and winds up casting further aspersions on them, you know something's up.

From a post in that journal from 2001:

The IMF, especially, is criticised for sending its experts into developing countries and commanding governments to balance the budget in ways that assault the poor-- by cutting spending on vital social services, ending subsidies or cutting spending on food and fuel, levying charges on use of water, and so on down the list of shame.

....the Fund, especially, may have invited much of the criticism it received in this respect because it specifies policy changes in such detail. The IMF should strenuously avoid letting itself be seen as running the country, giving the government instructions and telling voters and workers to get lost. ... The Fund turns up only when things have gone very wrong indeed-- and only when the government in question has asked for its help. That last point is surely worth more attention than the sceptics pay to it. If governments find the Fund's conditions so oppressive, they always have the option of refraining from asking for its help.

Www.economist.com/node/796127

In this case, the Thai government elected to refrain from asking for help. That has saved the Thai people, not only from involvement in dubious international finance schemes, but from the recriminations from such as the above author, who, I am sure, were the scheme to fail, would be quick to point out that the government in question "asked for it"!! I am not a fan of Yingluck's rice-pledging and certain other policies or the Shinawatra cartel in general. But to invite in the IMF and World Bank would be asking for trouble on top of trouble.

And to equate opposing IFI loans with support of the government's other policies is a straw-man argument.

Edited September 9, 2014 by DeepInTheForest

[rubl]

This discussion about IMF and Worldbank is nice of course, but somehow I fail to see the link with being flooded, by water that is.

[Old Man River]

[thread edited]After the 2011 floods, World Bank experts offered a solution and arranged for an IMF soft loan. The PTP respectfully declined and came up with their own plan.

Sent from my iPad using Thaivisa Connect Thailand

You may have made an inadvertent "soft" slur against the PTP government. The government appears to have been responsible in its handling of the 2011 flood devastation.

The World Bank Nov. 2011 “Rapid Assessment for Resilient Recovery and Reconstruction Planning” report was advisory and a compilation of virtual "pie in the sky" solutions without regard to Thailand's economic ability to finance every recommendation. The government did what governments do, develop its own financial plans to meet its economic and security needs without driving the country into significant inflation and loss of GDP growth.

The government did immediately self-financed short-term loans to support resident needs whom were impacted from the floods. For the affected industrial sector the Industry Minister and Deputy Finance Minister agreed to provide an immediate 15 billion baht low interest ("soft") loan to the Industrial State Authority covering four industrial parks to support the implementation of the flood prevention plan going forward.

Credit Suisse did an assessment of the government's post-flood recovery plan and held in part that from the government's planned investment, 1) the GDP growth rate for 2012 will increase from 3% to 3.8%, and 2) an annual 5% increase in GDP for the next five years.

The G-7 industrialized countries dominate the WB and IMF lending policies. No doubt if Thailand wanted to request an IMF/World Bank loan it had sufficient credit to do so. However, with such loans come with social and economic pre-conditions that can result in the loss of a country’s authority to govern its own economy and even its foreign policy. Thailand was wise to provide its own means of recovery.

Instead of writing World Bank experts, I should have written experts from the World Bank. Whether they were still with the World Bank at the time, I don't know, but they were able to arrange a soft loan from the IMF.

What I am referring to is a specific plan that was designed for Thailand and was similar in nature to systems already in use in other parts of Asia.

There obviously is no quick fix for this, but out of curiosity, what flood prevention/control plan did the Thai government ultimately come up with and pre-coup, how far along was it?

The point seems to be that you're not quite sure what the plan from the World Bank/IMF people was, or where it originated, but you are quite sure it was good, and that the failure to pursue it was regrettable.

For myself, if I were a developing country and the IMF/WB came calling with their plans, I would smile, thank them for their suggestions, and escort them to the door as soon as possible. And I would avoid taking loans from them at all costs.

When the Economist, of all publications, tries to defend them and winds up casting further aspersions on them, you know something's up.

From a post in that journal from 2001:

The IMF, especially, is criticised for sending its experts into developing countries and commanding governments to balance the budget in ways that assault the poor-- by cutting spending on vital social services, ending subsidies or cutting spending on food and fuel, levying charges on use of water, and so on down the list of shame.

....the Fund, especially, may have invited much of the criticism it received in this respect because it specifies policy changes in such detail. The IMF should strenuously avoid letting itself be seen as running the country, giving the government instructions and telling voters and workers to get lost. ... The Fund turns up only when things have gone very wrong indeed-- and only when the government in question has asked for its help. That last point is surely worth more attention than the sceptics pay to it. If governments find the Fund's conditions so oppressive, they always have the option of refraining from asking for its help.

Www.economist.com/node/796127

In this case, the Thai government elected to refrain from asking for help. That has saved the Thai people, not only from involvement in dubious international finance schemes, but from the recriminations from such as the above author, who, I am sure, were the scheme to fail, would be quick to point out that the government in question "asked for it"!! I am not a fan of Yingluck's rice-pledging and certain other policies or the Shinawatra cartel in general. But to invite in the IMF and World Bank would be asking for trouble on top of trouble.

And to equate opposing IFI loans with support of the government's other policies is a straw-man argument.

You are confusing me with someone else. I haven't equated IMF loans with anything. That must have been a different discussion with someone else.

As it relates to this flood plan, the head engineer who has worked on similar projects in other countries put the group together. He has a personal interest in Thailand because he lives here. He and other experts in this type of technology (tunneling) put the project together and took it to the WB who then vetted it and offered financing. As I understand it, the IMF financing was optional.

As it turned out, the Thai government wanted to use a small part of it and they gave permission.

Pre-coup, how far along were the PTP government in the flood mitigation plan they ultimately came up with?

Edited September 10, 2014 by Old Man River

[Old Man River]

I feel sorry for the affected. But for Pete's sake, we ALL know this is happening year after year after year. Find a long term solution, dammit!

After the 2011 floods, World Bank experts offered a solution and arranged for an IMF soft loan. The PTP respectfully declined and came up with their own plan.

Sent from my iPad using Thaivisa Connect Thailand

Was that the plan to have 5000 helicopters running to blow the rain back into the sky?

No, that was my plan, but I structured it to blow the water back in your direction.

BTW, did they ever find those mambas?

[chongtak]

The solution is to cut all forests of the north an make dams. Who needs trees in the mountains?