Popular Post AnotherOneAmerican Posted September 12, 2014 Popular Post Share Posted September 12, 2014 (edited) "I'm sorry I don't understand Thai, and your English isn't very clear. Please allow me to call my accountant, who can interpret for us." How easy is that? As for "bogus employees", if you pay their wage, tax and SS, then they are real employees. What you get them to do, where and when they do it, and how many other jobs they have, is entirely irrelevant to any discussion. From what I can see, paying employees to do nothing all day is common practise in Thailand. Take a look in BigC, Powerbuy, Top Charoen and any shopping Mall if you disagree with me, and see for yourself. Edited September 12, 2014 by AnotherOneAmerican 8 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wasa Posted September 12, 2014 Share Posted September 12, 2014 They asked me to get one of my staff? I could not get them because they were all working in there other jobs (I used them to get my permit as my accountant advised) I did not tell the officers this, but I just told them they are away and I could not get in contact with them. Than this means the OP has obtained his work permit by deceit and deception. No argument about it, he is not a legitimate business owner in Thailand. It is good that the police are doing their job. They were extremely decent towards the OP as by rights and by law they have the powers to suspend the OP`s business activities while making further inquiries. But the OP is not out of trouble yet, as the police report will probably be submitted to the Immigration department and his next visa extension and work permit maybe denied, which I sincerely hope will be the case, because it is those like the OP who continue to abuse the system that places critical observations on everyone else. Don't be silly, the owner can do with his own staff what he wants, even give them holidays 355 days a year. It is the racist law that forces us to hire useless staff. I agree with you falang07.......you can hire the staff and literally pay them to do nothing, that's each business owner's right and providing he has this wasteful expenditure built into his business plan so be it. But I think where Beetlejuice is coming from is that the OP has said the staff are on his books, but he is not paying them salaries only the legal obligations such as social security etc Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
saakura Posted September 12, 2014 Share Posted September 12, 2014 I think the first thing you should do is dial your accountant and hand them the phone. At least thats what my accountant said to do.No hurry, they know beforehand who the accountant is. The right time for negotiations is after the inspection is made. Maybe it is the accountant who tips them off about the farang working illegally? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
digitalchromakey Posted September 12, 2014 Share Posted September 12, 2014 Not off topic. This is how the shakedowns normally work, 'they' (whosoever 'they' may be) discover a 'legal technicality' with one's paperwork, then offer to ignore it, in exchange for cash. This is how this corruption works, often with cash payments demanded that are far in excess of the fines that would be due for any 'infringement'; however people pay up out of the fear that things may get much worst. This is why these scum should be trodden on hard and maybe others will then tread more lightly in the future. Unfortunately many people discuss these cases without knowing what really went on. In this case: yes, some police were in the wrong and the prosecution of them is justified, but for most of the people 'arrested' the arrest was justified. Well I wasn't there, but I have reliable sources told me who were there and as to what happened. How can it ever be justifiable for fake arrests to be made, even if the victims were committing an offense? I worked diving in Phuket for a number of years and during that time held a legit work permit; but I still could have been caught out on a technicalities like carrying bags, or escorting customers on the pier, or diving off Phi-Phi when that is in Krabi Province - all things that weren't on my WP. Corruption and extortion is a cancer in Thailand and I personally support all efforts to stamp it out in the many forms it exists. I'm fed up with this, especially you twisting my words, I said my thing already in the threads regarding this. Well I am fed up with corruption and any one who justifies it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stevenl Posted September 12, 2014 Share Posted September 12, 2014 Well I am fed up with corruption and any one who justifies it. So am I, and stop implying I am justifying or condoning it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jpeg Posted September 12, 2014 Share Posted September 12, 2014 Since this applies to all foreigners, nothing racist about it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beetlejuice Posted September 12, 2014 Share Posted September 12, 2014 (edited) They asked me to get one of my staff? I could not get them because they were all working in there other jobs (I used them to get my permit as my accountant advised) I did not tell the officers this, but I just told them they are away and I could not get in contact with them. Than this means the OP has obtained his work permit by deceit and deception. No argument about it, he is not a legitimate business owner in Thailand. It is good that the police are doing their job. They were extremely decent towards the OP as by rights and by law they have the powers to suspend the OP`s business activities while making further inquiries. But the OP is not out of trouble yet, as the police report will probably be submitted to the Immigration department and his next visa extension and work permit maybe denied, which I sincerely hope will be the case, because it is those like the OP who continue to abuse the system that places critical observations on everyone else. Don't be silly, the owner can do with his own staff what he wants, even give them holidays 355 days a year. It is the racist law that forces us to hire useless staff. It is a law imposed in Thailand to benefit the employment prospects of it`s own citizens, based on citizenship not race. And so it seems has been exposed yet another method that farangs who are unable to quality to remain in Thailand for the long term can flaunt the laws in order to hassle a means of financially supporting themselves here. Appears they are up to every trick in the book, which again will probably result in more tightening of the visa regulations, more scrutinising by the authorities and more hurdles for those who are abiding by the laws staying in Thailand legitimately to have to jump over. I am pleased to know that the police are on to this work visa scam, but in the end will result in tougher rules and greater difficulties for those who are considering running bona-fife businesses here in Thailand, meaning making the processes of obtaining licenses and work permits increasingly complicated and difficult. Edited September 12, 2014 by Beetlejuice 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thanet Posted September 12, 2014 Share Posted September 12, 2014 OP: Have you upset anyone recently? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ParadiseLost Posted September 12, 2014 Share Posted September 12, 2014 I think the first thing you should do is dial your accountant and hand them the phone. At least thats what my accountant said to do.No hurry, they know beforehand who the accountant is. The right time for negotiations is after the inspection is made. Maybe it is the accountant who tips them off about the farang working illegally? The weak link in the chain is the accountant; when he/she gets caught out for something stupid - like using the same employees for multiple companies - they will give up every one of their clients to save themselves... My guess is the OP did not have to do anything in person to get the WP and extension - obviously this would mean money changed hands to obtain permits which were illegally issued via the backdoor. Anyone who offers such 'services' is suspect. One question - would immigration police check the company setup? Is that not under the labor dept, and the normal police (hence the lack of enforcement over the past decade)? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ParadiseLost Posted September 12, 2014 Share Posted September 12, 2014 (edited) To sum it up: anyone hiring Thai stuff for securing a visa is just following the rules, and if he pays the tax and social security for them, he has ABSOLUTELY nothing to worry about, if you like or not. Even if the staff does not do any work, it is ONLY up to the owner to decide if he fires them, NO ONE else. No law is broken in here, go whine somewhere else please. This is true for someone who does everything for himself - in person. Using an accountant and never appearing at immigration, in person, is contradicting the law. And, if this is not enough then consider that to obtain a WP (in Samui) the applicant has to provide photographs of the business, with staff at their posts. Also, a photo of the owner outside the premises, with the company sign. It is obvious the law was not followed so I hardly think there is 'absolutely nothing to worry about' here... Edited September 12, 2014 by ParadiseLost Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stevenl Posted September 12, 2014 Share Posted September 12, 2014 Since this applies to all foreigners, nothing racist about it. Yes, please read a dictionary and find the difference between race and nationality/citizenship. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beetlejuice Posted September 12, 2014 Share Posted September 12, 2014 (edited) I think the first thing you should do is dial your accountant and hand them the phone. At least thats what my accountant said to do.No hurry, they know beforehand who the accountant is. The right time for negotiations is after the inspection is made. Maybe it is the accountant who tips them off about the farang working illegally? The weak link in the chain is the accountant; when he/she gets caught out for something stupid - like using the same employees for multiple companies - they will give up every one of their clients to save themselves... My guess is the OP did not have to do anything in person to get the WP and extension - obviously this would mean money changed hands to obtain permits which were illegally issued via the backdoor. Anyone who offers such 'services' is suspect. One question - would immigration police check the company setup? Is that not under the labor dept, and the normal police (hence the lack of enforcement over the past decade)? My son and my wife`s nephew are police officers here in Chiang Mai and my other son in a lawyer here in Chiang Mai. Please let me assure you that all the police departments, including what has now become a nationwide network are working in complete collaboration. Their computer records databases are being improved and updated day by day and each department can access the records of all the departments, including non police governmental departments armed with a user name and password at the click of a mouse. Also in the pipeline regarding the more serious criminal cases, under a court order the police will be able to access the databases of ISPs in order to obtain the computer activities records of their users, if said users become suspect. In the foreseeable future many activities investigations requiring actual police visits as random checks maybe a thing of the past as their technological computer databases become more efficient and organised, and trust me on this this, the authorities are beginning to get their acts together where better results and efficiency is the name of the game. Those who do not believe or under estimate the police are fools. The days of those illegally acquiring real estates, land and businesses in the hope that the authorities will turn a blind eye or not notice are numbered. In fact I am doing those who are abusing the systems here similar to the OP a favour, I am giving you a tip off as to what to expect and what you`re up against. Edited September 12, 2014 by Beetlejuice 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SiggiCM Posted September 12, 2014 Share Posted September 12, 2014 OP is not a clever guy. Stating he has 4 employees and can not reach ONE of them, not even by phone ? How ridiculous can one act, com'on ! Also if you "work from home" on your computer, WHY wake up sleeping dogs by applying for Work permit and other stuff ??? if you working home by internet for companys outside thailand, you do not need any workpermit or staff or built a company, it is useless, also for staying in Thailand this way is useless, just get a tourist Visa or learn Mue Thai or any language in a certifficated school, Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Strangebrew Posted September 12, 2014 Share Posted September 12, 2014 Look you best bet is make friend with high ranking military officer are you get to know him and him you just bring up a question on your concerns. I have one when pulled over or approached with questions I just say can my friend interpret for me ? 99% of the time they say yes call hand them the phone And be prepare to get your butt kissed. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
digitalchromakey Posted September 12, 2014 Share Posted September 12, 2014 OP is not a clever guy. Stating he has 4 employees and can not reach ONE of them, not even by phone ? How ridiculous can one act, com'on ! Also if you "work from home" on your computer, WHY wake up sleeping dogs by applying for Work permit and other stuff ??? if you working home by internet for companys outside thailand, you do not need any workpermit or staff or built a company, it is useless, also for staying in Thailand this way is useless, just get a tourist Visa or learn Mue Thai or any language in a certifficated school, Not correct - urban myth. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Strangebrew Posted September 12, 2014 Share Posted September 12, 2014 Oh I made my contact at my condo this police officer lived in same building. Met him after his son almost drown in pool I dove in pull him did mouth to mouth and CPR his son lived, Doctors told him If I weren't there son would be dead. Now I carry a Royal thai ID holder with his business card in it works great. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alyx Posted September 12, 2014 Share Posted September 12, 2014 (edited) I assume your accountant does you Tax claim, if you can't read Thai you'll have no idea how he's cooking the booksI'll second that....from experienceAlmost two decades ago I created a company with, of course, the help of a "highly recommended" accountant. I do not recall the reson why, at some point, a couple of years later, I turned to another female accountant who was shocked ( less than me, mind you ) by the fact that no taxes had been paid for almost a year...although I was paying everything to my "former" accountant, on a "too regular" basis. She summoned him....he turned up....and, surprise, he did confess to the "embezzlement" He couldn't reimburse: I was stunned, along with a more offensive term I did try to set things right but, had to give up, as it was a consequent amount of money, for me at least, at the time...and no, I didn't file against the guy. Edited September 12, 2014 by alyx Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joepattaya1961 Posted September 12, 2014 Share Posted September 12, 2014 Thanks for the comment. They were in smart casual clothing and all wearing immigation badges. I should have checked there cards but I completely forgot and a little nervous. They seemed to be the real deal and my accountant confirmed this. Do you think all is ok? They did not ask for anything like $$$ No tintedman, they didn't ask for ฿฿฿฿฿฿, but they've been busy for 45 minutes in finding a reason to do so. Unfortunately (for them) everything was ok and they had to find another "victim" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beetlejuice Posted September 12, 2014 Share Posted September 12, 2014 Thanks for the comment. They were in smart casual clothing and all wearing immigation badges. I should have checked there cards but I completely forgot and a little nervous. They seemed to be the real deal and my accountant confirmed this. Do you think all is ok? They did not ask for anything like $$$ No tintedman, they didn't ask for ฿฿฿฿฿฿, but they've been busy for 45 minutes in finding a reason to do so. Unfortunately (for them) everything was ok and they had to find another "victim" As I said previously, all is not OK. A report is likely to be forwarded on to Immigration and the OP may have his next visa extension and work permit denied. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sadana Posted September 12, 2014 Share Posted September 12, 2014 I agree with Beetlejuice as I do understand the OP. Fact is that Immigration has the right to check at all times. (Just beware of the fake ones). There are many people (not judging OP) whom bend the rules and think it's in their rights. However there are tons of farangs just holding companies to keep their property under control. Logically but as stated in Thai law, illegal. Just make sure you have those 4 Thai as real employees. It cost you hardly any Baht and ensures you are fully legal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
greenchair Posted September 12, 2014 Share Posted September 12, 2014 That's right. Stop trying to scare the guy. They just want to have a wee peek. Make sure you are not up to, too much mischief. Most people have to navigate around the laws a bit. Not just in Thailand. I am sure immigration are well aware of this. If you look in the old constitution madra 84 it says to refrain from enforcing overly stringent business laws. Especially if they are of benefits to the kingdoms economy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bertbobjes Posted September 12, 2014 Share Posted September 12, 2014 Can somebody clear this up please. Is it legal to only pay the social security of the 4 thais ? Is it legal to employ them part time instead of full time ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
belg Posted September 12, 2014 Share Posted September 12, 2014 possible they might come back, all at once or one by one for some special donation... TIT Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
enuff said Posted September 12, 2014 Share Posted September 12, 2014 . Oh we're all against the corruption of the police and immigration officials but don't see how it's the corruption of the shyster lawyers and accountants who lure clients into paying hundreds of thousands for setting up fake companies in the first place. The foreigners who participate in this scharade are just as corrupt as everyone else. 'nuff said ~ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stevenl Posted September 12, 2014 Share Posted September 12, 2014 Can somebody clear this up please. Is it legal to only pay the social security of the 4 thais ? Is it legal to employ them part time instead of full time ? Social security has to be paid on full time salaries. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AnotherOneAmerican Posted September 12, 2014 Share Posted September 12, 2014 .Oh we're all against the corruption of the police and immigration officials but don't see how it's the corruption of the shyster lawyers and accountants who lure clients into paying hundreds of thousands for setting up fake companies in the first place. The foreigners who participate in this scharade are just as corrupt as everyone else. 'nuff said If the 4 employees are happy, and their tax and SS are paid, how can it be corruption. As far as I can see 4 employees gets you 1 WP, no restrictions on the duties the employees do (or don't). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gulfsailor Posted September 12, 2014 Share Posted September 12, 2014 Can somebody clear this up please. Is it legal to only pay the social security of the 4 thais ? Is it legal to employ them part time instead of full time ?Social security has to be paid on full time salaries. And immigration considers full time 30 days a month, so minimum salary per employee should be 9000 baht per month. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yankee99 Posted September 12, 2014 Share Posted September 12, 2014 Can somebody clear this up please. Is it legal to only pay the social security of the 4 thais ? Is it legal to employ them part time instead of full time ?Social security has to be paid on full time salaries. You mean on the minimum salary of 9000 baht i think. Also lots of businesses don't open daily or have staff that stays in one place. You are not expected to have 4 employees all the time. What happens when they quit it could take weeks or months to replace them. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beetlejuice Posted September 12, 2014 Share Posted September 12, 2014 Can somebody clear this up please. Is it legal to only pay the social security of the 4 thais ? Is it legal to employ them part time instead of full time ? The company laws of Thailand are extremely nationalistic. In most cases the company must be majority owned by Thai nationals in terms of shareholders. This means that a company has to be no more than 49% foreign owned. Sometimes it is only maximum of 39% foreign ownership, but in most cases it's 49% foreign owned. The exceptions regarding majority foreign ownership (farangs without Thai citizenships in these cases) -- require an Alien Business License or otherwise known as a Foreign Business License from the Ministry of Commerce, normally granted with the consent of the Board of Investment (BoI) on the basis that very large amounts of monies will be invested, a very large number of Thais employed, and/or exceptionally strategic transfer of technology or skills that would be to the Thais advantage. The ability to set up certain types of companies depends on the sector of business it is in and other very complicated issues. There are advertisements claiming that a farang can set up a majority foreign-owned company, yea right. They can file papers with all foreign shareholders, 100%. No government authority will stop them from doing that, and they will usually just routinely process the paperwork just like any other Thai company setup or changes in an existing filing. They just are not able to conduct business with such companies legally, unless and until they obtain (with few exceptions) an Alien Business License . They can conduct business and continue to conduct business providing nobody notices and prosecutes, but they will not be able to obtain a non-immigrant B business visa or work permit, or extend any of these, plus other permits and licenses may be denied based on the paperwork for this business that is submitted. They may also be subject to the strictest of penalties, including fines, deportation and in some extreme cases, imprisonment if tumbled. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wasa Posted September 12, 2014 Share Posted September 12, 2014 "I'm sorry I don't understand Thai, and your English isn't very clear. Please allow me to call my accountant, who can interpret for us." How easy is that? As for "bogus employees", if you pay their wage, tax and SS, then they are real employees. What you get them to do, where and when they do it, and how many other jobs they have, is entirely irrelevant to any discussion. From what I can see, paying employees to do nothing all day is common practise in Thailand. Take a look in BigC, Powerbuy, Top Charoen and any shopping Mall if you disagree with me, and see for yourself. Spot on! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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