Family Permit

[Rich05]

Hi Guys,

Does the Family Permit which allows EU members and their wives to live in other EU states have an offical name, or does the form have an offical number which the embassy would recognise???

[the scouser]

I believe that for the Schengen countries you complete the standard form, but you only answer the questions which are starred (*).

Cheers,

Scouse.

[the scouser]

Or, alternatively, not complete those questions which are starred

Schengen application form.

Scouse.

[GuestHouse]

Scouse is correct.

When my wife and I applied for her application to be with me here in Italy we completed a standard Schengen Visa Applicaiton Form

But we added some extra information in a covering letter.

The important points are:

1. You need to state that you (the EU Citizen) are moving to ANOther EU Nation to take up employment - (State that you are invoking your 'Treaty Rights'). - This automatically kicks in the rights of your wife to join you and free visas.

Be aware - the Family Permit is to allow your wife/family to join you when you take employment - You need to demonstrate that you have employment at the destination (You may get away with seeking employment but you would have to demonstrate reasonable prospects of finding employment).

Once you are in, whereever you are going, you and your wife needs to apply for formal registration, without formal registration she will not be able to apply for other visas from your new home - So for example, if you then wish to return to the UK she would have to apply for her visa back in Bangkok.

[Rich05]

Thanks for this GuestHouse. But the whole drama seems to have taken an unexpected turn today (for the worse I think).

I am a UK passport holder, living AND working in Portugal for the past 8 months (on decent wage and with a Portuguese Residents card).

Having waited 2 months for a second Visit Visa for my girlfriend to come to Portugal, she phoned them once again last week to ask questions about withdrawing her application - if we were to marry - and applying for a Family Permit (they called it a Residents Visa?), the Embassy advised her against this until we were actually married, and that was that.

I emailed the embassy to ask questions about which documents I would need to provide to successfully obtain a Family Permit.

As unbelievable as it seems, today I received an email from the embassy informing me that her application has already been cancelled "at her request" (she promises me she did not request it to be cancelled). They go on to tell me that if we get married, she could apply for a 'short stay visa,' and that I need all the same documents as a visit visa application, plus my marriage certificate, translated to English and with the translation duly certified by the Thai MFA.

I am going crazy, how can they do this? I feel devastated by the whole process, and completely helpless. If the application was indeed cancelled, will this affect our next application? Will it show on her passport? And what is this about a short stay visa? I’m completely confused by the whole EU members Family Permit visa. How long can she stay on a Family Permit, and is this really my best option?

Would it be a good idea to now speak to a lawyer here in Portugal to help me resolve this situation?

Any help would be greatly appreciated. I am completely shattered by this absurd situation.

[GuestHouse]

My first action would be to call the embassy and 'POLITELY' ask that they reinstate her visa applicaition - explain the missunderstanding.

I know I've got a load of work onmy desk and if I get even the slightest hint some it can ignored I jump at the chance - maybe nothing more than that has happened.

[the scouser]

Hi Rich,

As Guesthouse suggested, ask if they can reinstate the visit visa application.

It is possible that a family permit will only be of a short validity as the idea is that once your wife arrives in Portugal, she then applies for a residence permit which will allow her to stay for 5 years.

In order to qualify for a family permit, the applicant must be your dependant. In your g/f's case this means she must be married to you at the date of application. You will need to demonstrate to the Portuguese authorities that you are legally married, that you are a citizen of another EU country, and that you are exercising a treaty right in Portugal (in your case that you are working). A family permit is free and should be issued without delay. A family permit can be refused but only in limited circumstances. If, for one of these reasons, the Portuguese authorities look to decline your wife's application, they must give very good reasons for their actions.

Scouse.

[vinny]

Rich05, see also Right of Union citizens and their family members to move and reside freely within the territory of the Member States and Directive on the right to reside freely in the EU.

As you are currently not married, it may also be a good opportunity to ask the Embassy of Portugal what documents they would consider as proof of the existence of a "durable relationship, duly attested" to see if she can benefit under Article 3(2)( b ) of the European Parliament and Council Directive 2004/38/EC. As Scouse pointed out, if she is staying for longer than three months they may require her to apply for a residence card in Portugal under Articles 9 and 10.

Edited July 18, 2006 by vinny

[Rich05]

You're so helpful, thanks very much once again guys.

Unfortunately the embassy refused to re-instate her visa.

They recommended we marry (if that was the intention anyway), change the name on her passport, get new documents (bank statements, pay slips, medical insurance, travel insurance, letter confirming sponsorship, and marriage certificate,) and apply again for a 3 month visa.

Guesthouse - how long did the process take for your wife to be granted the Family Permit? Is it usually a matter of days?

You say once she gets the 3 month visa she has to apply for formal registration? What do you mean by this? I had to live and work here for 6 months before I could apply for a residents card.

One thing which I'm still wondering about is that after 3 months, does she have to go back to Thailand and apply for another visa to stay with me, or can she simply apply at the embassy in Portugal for an extenstion to her current visa. And how many times can she do this before they inevitabley send her home? How did you and your wife handle this? Did you apply for a Residents Visa once she was with you in Italy, and what happened after your first 3 months?

[GuestHouse]

Guesthouse - how long did the process take for your wife to be granted the Family Permit? Is it usually a matter of days?

My wife was applying at the Italian Visa office in London, she received her visa on the same day that she applied.

One thing of note was that the appointment clearance officer, a woman, was perhaps the most abusive person I have ever come across in any government office anywhere!

She snapped at every single person in the queue - BUT - when presented with a cover letter that stated the application was being made under Treaty Rights, she imediately changed her attitude.

As Scouse says, very good reasons need to be given for not issuing a family permit under treaty rights were the applicant is demonstrating entitlement.

[Rich05]

Hello GuestHouse,

Might I ask you a few questions, as you seem to have gone through a very simular situation as I'm about to embark upon.

First I was wondering in your letter of sponsorship, did you state the purpose of visit was a holiday, and did you say anything about the duration of stay and when she intended to return to Thailand? I am tempted to write a very vague letter simply instructing them I intend to excersise my Treaty Rights (under Directive 2004/38/EC) and she would like to apply for a 90 day visa, but perhaps this isn't the best thing to do?

Also, at the time of writing the letter and having it stamped by the Notary (a requirement in Portugal) she will not be my wife. I'm gathering all my documents before flying out there to marry her. This leaves me with another dilema, how to refer to her in the letter?

These may all seem like minor, or insignificant queries but in my experience it's better to have everything 100% correct. One incorrect detail and it leaves the embassy with the option of rejecting her application.

Thanks

[Rich05]

Maybe someone could tell me, does my girlfriend HAVE to change her surname after we marry to obtain a visa through the Family Permit route?

[the scouser]

No, you need only display that you are lawfully married.

Scouse.

[GuestHouse]

First I was wondering in your letter of sponsorship, did you state the purpose of visit was a holiday, and did you say anything about the duration of stay and when she intended to return to Thailand? I am tempted to write a very vague letter simply instructing them I intend to excersise my Treaty Rights (under Directive 2004/38/EC) and she would like to apply for a 90 day visa, but perhaps this isn't the best thing to do?

My wife was applying for a visa to join me when I took up employment - The treaty rights apply to seaking/taking up employment in the EU - I don't think they apply to holidays.

Also, at the time of writing the letter and having it stamped by the Notary (a requirement in Portugal) she will not be my wife. I'm gathering all my documents before flying out there to marry her. This leaves me with another dilema, how to refer to her in the letter?

No, my letter was a simple letter outlining why my wife was applying and that I was taking up employment under my treaty rights - Not notorized.

Other supporting documents where my contract of employment in Italy (Stating Employment, Salary, Health Insurance etc) and our marrigage certificate.

Our marriage cert needed to be notorized at the Singapore High Commission since we were married in Singapore.

I believe your fiancee can claim treaty rights as a 'dependent' because non marriage relationships are recognized - Perhaps Scouse can give details.

[vinny]

See also the UK's interpretation of the EEA family permit.