Poll shows most people feel Thai university graduates are unqualified

[thailiketoo]

Some of the worst Thai employees I have had, have been the ones with degrees. Incompetent is too polite a word to describe them. Two of my best staff do not have degrees, but they have adaptability, determination , they want to learn, work hard and they have taught themselves to speak English. Several "degreed" staff became quite upset when these staff started to get promoted based on their performance, an alien concept here I guess. I want Staff that "can do" as opposed to talk about it. That is not to say all University students are like that, because they aren't, my experience is that it is about attitude, personality and entitlement that is often the big difference.

Are you speaking of a business in Thailand currently?

[AYJAYDEE]

Many Thai academics have studied and earned degrees overseas - from unis with powerful reputations like MIT and LSE. Given the standard of their English and their comprehension skills, I often wonder how. Then they return to Thailand and enter academia and slip back into the "Thai mold" (as a communications lecturer ar Chula once told me). By that I presume they fail to take on board the valuable moral lessons learnt from the overseas unis and allow themselves to become once again a part of the Thai system of money and patronage. The "no one ever fails" club. Hence the belief that only 2.24% of poll respondents believe Thai graduates are qualified. It's interesting that Thais recognise the failings in their uni system. It's also interesting that no one seems to want to do anything about it, despite education reform being an "urgent priority" for the past 30 years. Thai academics must take a major share of the blame for this. They can use their collective intelligence and powers to exact change - they know it, as do you and I, yet they are failing in their moral responsibility.

By the time the students get to university it is too late. . The complete overhaul of the system from the bottom up is required. Only last week another survey I believe from the World Economic forum reported that the Thai education system both primary and secondary ranked close to the bottom of ASEAN and behind that of Laos.

It's good that Thais see the problem but that is the easy part. Finding and implementing a solution is not.

That is indeed the problem. Primary schools...well, they can be ok. Once a kid gets to high school...forget about it. I have been working in a government school (never, never again...I have handed in my notice) and its just a shambles. Too many kids in the class, no resources, no discipline, everyone passes, Thai teachers that sit on their lazy butts with no interaction with the kids...simply write a load of words on the board and the kids just copy it, total disorganisation...of EVERYTHING! There is no culture of questioning anything, hardly any students are curious about much....Yes, by the time they get to uni the have been successfully turned into Thai zombies. Its sad because when you teach at primary school level you can still see the spark, the kids are curious, they are inventive....that gets beaten down by Matthayom 3.

Yes, the system needs a total overhaul! Its a system that produce such lovely people as the head of English department at my school. She has a mas DUR degeeee in English. I have to speak Thai to her a lot of the time because she literally doesnt understand me. Its a sad state of affairs.

no wonder you couldnt make it as high school teacher.

[Fab5BKK]

Just curious, how many foreign languages do you speak?

They call every scool a university. And even the ones who really did the top Thai university's can't speak proper english. Some even can't speak english at all even if they have been in the USA to study.

My god, your English is really poor for someone criticizing. Can you speak or write English better than these graduates? It seems not!

[krystian]

It is the NO FAIL polilcy from Pre-school to Graduate School! They cant fail the students because the students will move to another school!!!

[kaspercat]

A Thai degree, even from Chula or Mahidol, are worthless outside of Thailand. Many in the West particularly will not hire such, and the universities there know of the bogus situation in Thailand when evaluating admissions applications.

I dare say that even any newly graduated medical doctor should not be practicing beyond taking vitals until he/she trains in USA. I read their diplomas on the wall or as listed in Web site.

Learning is just not valued in Thailand and HiSo think spending time studying is just a waste because dad has a company position ready for them anyway.

The other root problem is that Thai teachers function the same way... the Thai way. Western trained teachers soon learn that there no Fs or Ds, that their Thai colleagues and especially administrators are just time servers, and go along to get along is the rule. The way things are now, Thailand will remain locked in the gray Second World status forever.

My Thai friend has a degree from Chula or Mahidol but any Indian speaks better english then him. He is very proud with his degree though, even has been to Norway with the university to "see how they work there". Don't tell them how the rest of the world thinks about those degree's because that's very offending.

Was his degree in English language? You seem to equate the ability to speak fluent English with intellectual competence.

I have no idea mate. I won't expect a graduate from the top thai university's to speak fluent english but at least be able to have a conversation. In Europe all university students can do that. I sure can speak with him but i have to speak very slow and don't use any uncommon words. His dad is a Thai professor who got his degree from abroad but his english is even much worse.

I also have familymembers who work in top hospitals in Bangkok and go abroad several times a year for conventions and so. They can't speak english but if they are good doctors i can't judge that.

You can't equate English proficiency with intelligence, as what many members here seem to be impressing upon. If this was true, then, Japan must be full of idiots. On the contrary, I have met many Japanese, even those working or studying overseas who are brilliant people but just can't get a good grasp of English.

Despite what many wish, the world do not revolve around English. This is true more and more every year.

[metisdead]

A grammar police post has been removed.

[namdocmai]

They call every scool a university. And even the ones who really did the top Thai university's can't speak proper english. Some even can't speak english at all even if they have been in the USA to study.

My god, your English is really poor for someone criticizing. Can you speak or write English better than these graduates? It seems not!

Haha, thanks for correcting me mate. I write the word "scool" this way since ages, guess i got that from some forum. I like to read this forum to improve my english skills, speaking to Thai only makes it worse. But how many languages can you speak/write?

[finnomick]

This is no brainer everyone knows this except the ones that supposed to, then again self denial is wonderful, I know of computer degree students that have never heard of hexadecimal or Binary maths , the main ingredient to computer language , I was told long ago that Thai UNI students learn how it is done but not the reason why is it done and calculus another shortcut methodology by Thai, they learn half of what you learn at a western Uni , however I am of the understanding, theses days , in the medical field they are up with the game.

I know I am only relating one instance and those involved are not of the ' current ' teaching but, our friends daughter was taken to hospital with severe ' stomach area ' pains. They examined her and referred her to the nearest ' major ' hospital ( Buriram ) quoting acute appendicitis. The ' major ' hospital then kept her in for observation for one and a half days. Only when her appendix ruptured did they actually decide to operate, so I would disagree that ' they are up with the game '. Incidentally, after the operation, she was kept on a stretcher in a corridor until her mother's continuous demands had her moved to a ward.

[rak sa_ngop]

Its not ALL bad.

I have a Thai friend now doing his PhD in Pure Mathematics at King Mongkut University. The first year was spent honing basic mathematical skills. The end of year exam resulted in 4 out of 12 of his fellow students failing (less than 50 pc) so have to repeat the year.

My friend managed to score 100 pc.

Now he is preparing to publish his research results.

The Biggest Brain in Bangkok!

[thesetat2013]

Yes i speak 5 languages so forgive me if i make mistakes. And no i don't have any university degree's.

I know Thai who graduated for administration or Information Technology at university's here and they can't even say hello in english. They even can't add up without a calculator.

Dont feel bad! I know a thai with a masters in accounting and can not multiply 10x10 or add without a calculator also.

Sent from my GT-S5310 using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

[payanak]

"Many Thai academics have studied and earned degrees overseas - from unis with powerful like MIT and LSE. Given the standard of their English and their comprehension skills, I often wonder how."

"Some even can't speak english at all even if they have been in the USA to study".

There is a very good reason why Thai students do poorly even if they have been exposed to the American educational system. Thanks to the liberal progressive mentality that has infected nearly all uiversities in the US, large numbers of knowingly unqualified foreign students are brought in in the name of "cultural diversity." Once there, the bar is lowered significantly for them. They are held to a lower standard compared to US kids and a blind eye is turned as they are pushed through the system and sadly awarded the same degree of achievement.

How do I know this? Because I was part of this abomination. For two years I was an instructor at a well known private university in the San Francisco area. I had a number of foeign students who were blatantly unqualified. Their lack of any intelectual horsepower became laughable. The staff was eventually told to keep our mouths shut and just push them on. A few were acceptable and remained in the US. Most returned home.

[thesetat2013]

Is anyone surprised? The fact is that most proffesionals are completely ignorant to the education theys needed which landed them in their jobs in the first place. These are the so-called experts we see quoting figures for TAT and other gov agencies.

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[ebean001]

Do your own survey - ask a Thai what is 7 times 5. I asked about 5 ladies and only 1 right. I asked an 8th grader 75/25. He had no idea. I showed him how. He said, 'sorry, i forgot but now i remember doing that in the 3rd grade. If you do not know dividing then what do you do in math each day? Pause - the teacher teaches, we listen, she gives us the answers, we enter answers into our books. DONE.

I think we jump too fast on the 'education system'. Come on folks - go to a rice farm village. Many 'parents' are grandpa/ma. Many have no knowledge of education and no value in it. The kids have no chance from the beginning. IT IS MORE THAN A BAD EDUCATION SYSTEM. I might assume that education among the Bangkok elite is ok. Not that the teachers are better but the families value/support education more.

[AYJAYDEE]

This is no brainer everyone knows this except the ones that supposed to, then again self denial is wonderful, I know of computer degree students that have never heard of hexadecimal or Binary maths , the main ingredient to computer language , I was told long ago that Thai UNI students learn how it is done but not the reason why is it done and calculus another shortcut methodology by Thai, they learn half of what you learn at a western Uni , however I am of the understanding, theses days , in the medical field they are up with the game.

I know I am only relating one instance and those involved are not of the ' current ' teaching but, our friends daughter was taken to hospital with severe ' stomach area ' pains. They examined her and referred her to the nearest ' major ' hospital ( Buriram ) quoting acute appendicitis. The ' major ' hospital then kept her in for observation for one and a half days. Only when her appendix ruptured did they actually decide to operate, so I would disagree that ' they are up with the game '. Incidentally, after the operation, she was kept on a stretcher in a corridor until her mother's continuous demands had her moved to a ward.

so you start by telling us you are relating ONE instance and then go on to state you dont agree that THEY are up with the game!! lol

[mrtoad]

Some of the worst Thai employees I have had, have been the ones with degrees. Incompetent is too polite a word to describe them. Two of my best staff do not have degrees, but they have adaptability, determination , they want to learn, work hard and they have taught themselves to speak English. Several "degreed" staff became quite upset when these staff started to get promoted based on their performance, an alien concept here I guess. I want Staff that "can do" as opposed to talk about it. That is not to say all University students are like that, because they aren't, my experience is that it is about attitude, personality and entitlement that is often the big difference.

Are you speaking of a business in Thailand currently?

Yes

[Commerce]

This thread is supposed to be about the level of qualifications of Thai graduates, and not their ability to speak, read, or write English.

English, regardless of ability to engage with trans-nationals, is irrelevent to a qualification to be imposed within Thailand, if the graduate intends to live in Thailand.

The AEC, or ASEAN, is not going to impose that all Thais must be able to speak English, despite its advantages. For example, why would a Thai lawyer need to speak English within a Thai court?

The majority of students I engage with work pretty darned hard, and take their degrees seriously. If they are falling to levels of lower graduation in many subjects, in comparison to other countries, then where does the blame really lie? Institutions and systems are failing the students, as the students don't know any better. It is ok to criticise the students but, in all reality; the blame rests upon the institutions, and the systems within which the students study.

[razer]

There was a vision for quality education in Thailand, but there was no political will. Cronyism and corruption has taken its toll. I have said 100 times the average Thai graduate can't compete in ASEAN and many will lose their jobs to someone from the ASEAN community. I have known some Thai grads who are very very good in everything they do, including language but I find the greater sum of Thai grads wanting something for nothing because that is what they got in school. Massive complaining usually got them what they want in a school system.

[laolover88]

Do your own survey - ask a Thai what is 7 times 5. I asked about 5 ladies and only 1 right. I asked an 8th grader 75/25. He had no idea. I showed him how. He said, 'sorry, i forgot but now i remember doing that in the 3rd grade. If you do not know dividing then what do you do in math each day? Pause - the teacher teaches, we listen, she gives us the answers, we enter answers into our books. DONE.

I think we jump too fast on the 'education system'. Come on folks - go to a rice farm village. Many 'parents' are grandpa/ma. Many have no knowledge of education and no value in it. The kids have no chance from the beginning. IT IS MORE THAN A BAD EDUCATION SYSTEM. I might assume that education among the Bangkok elite is ok. Not that the teachers are better but the families value/support education more.

Yes, but a belle de nuit can tell you the exact amount she requires in Thai Baht, whatever foreign currency you offer

[AYJAYDEE]

Do your own survey - ask a Thai what is 7 times 5. I asked about 5 ladies and only 1 right. I asked an 8th grader 75/25. He had no idea. I showed him how. He said, 'sorry, i forgot but now i remember doing that in the 3rd grade. If you do not know dividing then what do you do in math each day? Pause - the teacher teaches, we listen, she gives us the answers, we enter answers into our books. DONE.

I think we jump too fast on the 'education system'. Come on folks - go to a rice farm village. Many 'parents' are grandpa/ma. Many have no knowledge of education and no value in it. The kids have no chance from the beginning. IT IS MORE THAN A BAD EDUCATION SYSTEM. I might assume that education among the Bangkok elite is ok. Not that the teachers are better but the families value/support education more.

Yes, but a belle de nuit can tell you the exact amount she requires in Thai Baht, whatever foreign currency you offer

Edited September 18, 2014 by AYJAYDEE

[AYJAYDEE]

Do your own survey - ask a Thai what is 7 times 5. I asked about 5 ladies and only 1 right. I asked an 8th grader 75/25. He had no idea. I showed him how. He said, 'sorry, i forgot but now i remember doing that in the 3rd grade. If you do not know dividing then what do you do in math each day? Pause - the teacher teaches, we listen, she gives us the answers, we enter answers into our books. DONE.

I think we jump too fast on the 'education system'. Come on folks - go to a rice farm village. Many 'parents' are grandpa/ma. Many have no knowledge of education and no value in it. The kids have no chance from the beginning. IT IS MORE THAN A BAD EDUCATION SYSTEM. I might assume that education among the Bangkok elite is ok. Not that the teachers are better but the families value/support education more.

nonsense! my in laws had no schooling, their children had grade 6 maximum and ALL of the grandchildren finished grade 12 and half of them graduated from university!

Edited September 18, 2014 by AYJAYDEE

[upena]

This is the first Thai poll that I can actually believe

[ToddinChonburi]

This is nothing new, it is the keep your people stupid act. Government wants the people stupid so they will not stand up to the corruption.

In the good old USA they just use legal corruption.

[cloudhopper]

This is nothing new, it is the keep your people stupid act. Government wants the people stupid so they will not stand up to the corruption.

In the good old USA they just use legal corruption.

Very perceptive on both counts IMO Todd.

[Cloggie]

If all students will pass any exam what is the value of a degree?

[GarryP]

I would be very interested to know the average GPA for Bachelors degree graduates in Thailand. I have interviewed so many people with GPAs just above 2, it seems like they have done the bare minimum to graduate and, like the article says, not gone to university to seriously study.

[Rimbuman]

A bachelor degree here is equivalent to grade 12 in the US.

No need to criticise Thai degrees. Just understand what they mean. Garbage collectors in some countries are called environment technicians after all.

And even they are not very good at it.

[losgrad]

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Most employers in the US feel the same about US Graduates as well...

Guess that must mean that US Universities are also crap?

http://dailyfreepress.com/2012/12/10/employers-view-recent-graduates-as-unprepared-study-suggests/

Yes, there is often a disconnect between what businesses and governments need and what is produced by the educational systems. It's up to the parents and others to direct children in the right direction as some schools choose the path of least resistance and/or the highest fees.

This thread is supposed to be about the level of qualifications of Thai graduates, and not their ability to speak, read, or write English.

<snip>

The majority of students I engage with work pretty darned hard, and take their degrees seriously. If they are falling to levels of lower graduation in many subjects, in comparison to other countries, then where does the blame really lie? Institutions and systems are failing the students, as the students don't know any better. It is ok to criticise the students but, in all reality; the blame rests upon the institutions, and the systems within which the students study.

The institutions cater to what the government, parents and fees provide. Private institutions are in 'business' to make money. If they don't graduate students, future students may choose to go elsewhere. Yes, some students are simply paying for their degrees and some truly want to earn their degrees.

In the USA, they have a growing number of commercial 'quickie' colleges that advertise guaranteed employment upon graduation - Get In, Get out, Get a Job, Pay for Student Loans the rest of your life.... I have interviewed many IT students from these 'schools' and would not hire any of them based upon their 'education.'

In every grade and undergraduate classroom, 50% of the students are below median. Some of the lowest scoring students should not go to the next grade level, however with parental pressures and limited teacher resources, these failing students are pushed forward. I put the responsibility on the parents as that is where it starts... The parents could hold the child back, they could provide tutoring, they could promote learning...

[Rimbuman]

It is the NO FAIL polilcy from Pre-school to Graduate School! They cant fail the students because the students will move to another school!!!

Well that's smart.

The first graduate that says 'I wouldn't hire myself because I don't know what I am doing' is hired.

Edited September 18, 2014 by Rimbuman

[smileydude]

This problem is not unique to Thailand. Many people who decide to go to college do so ONLY for the degree in order to better their lives.

They are more focused on getting the degree then learning.

They end up missing out on what education is really about, to gain knowledge and skills that can be used/applied in real life as a career.

The German educational system has long focused on vocational training instead of a 4 year university degree with the concept being that to be cost efficient to both the country and the economy, the majority of the population should be trained to be really good at a specific skill set in a shorter timeframe instead of emphasizing the bachelors, masters or doctorate degree for highest efficiency and productivity. Do we all really need to learn history, arts, sociology and all that other non-utilized knowledge added on to the 180 units required to get a B.A while taking 4 years off our work-life?

[Teddy3943]

The unbelievable numbers of graduations shown on TV makes the whole world laugh. Everybody comprehends that it's ment to be a show of the perfect educational system in Thailand, but that the opposite is the case.

At the private school where my wife worked as a teacher I tried to have a conversation with the English language teachers. All they could produce was: Good evening, how are you and some other words. None of them was able to have a normal conversation with me. All of them had a university degree...