Bachelor's Degree graduates in Thailand face a bleak future for their careers

[culicine]

One of the problems here and it seems everywhere there is no real world education taught. Theory and history are great but to make it in the real world these kids need to be given some applicable skills or they will just flounder. I have 2 girls in the system right now. 1 just graduated from the Uni and I would equate her education level to be about a high school graduate in the U S She doesn't have much in the way of marketable skills and she is finding this out the hard way now, as she is having a very difficult time finding a job.

Correct, I have seen jobs here in Thailand where they require bachelors degree, but same thing in USA requires only a high school diploma. So Thai degrees are no where near the same standard as western degrees.

Anyway, that's really not the issue. The issue is that Bachelor Degrees were never meant as being vocational programs. They are purely education for the sake of learning only.

If ever anyone learnt anything in a Bachelors degree it was to be able to think, question, understand problems and find solutions. That's not enough for a career or job. But it's a good start. If any graduate can't make out with that then they really should have chosen a trade school instead.

The problem with the last paragraph, is that many Thai graduate are not even developing creative thinking and analytical skills. They are the same as high school here. The lecturer tells them what they need to know to pass the test. Passing is paramount. The learning is not all that important. I'm not surprised many graduates can't get work here. They are next to useless when ask to do anything more than a menial or repetitive task. That doesn't apply to all degrees; just a vast majority, especially generalised degrees.

[culicine]

Same the world over for most fields of study. parents were wrong to send their kids to university. trade school is a better bet for most

And at 25 years of age they will have accrued more wealth than the usual university graduate, especially in a country like Australia. Plumbers and electricians do quite well for themselves. Vocational courses are seen only for the poor people, which is pretty sad. Salaries are very low here too.

[Thai at Heart]

Yes the same applies in OZ, with Geologists the unemployment rate is 15 unemployed to 1 of everyone else, same across all degree students now the enrolments are dropping off as they see their mates still looking for work 2 years later after graduating , this also indicates the Australian mining industry is not as healthy as some would like you to believe, some of my Thai family have had degrees in Media and one did work as local TV manager, the whole station didn't get paid for 2months, so they all walked out, they have mostly given up looking and do other work, which pay's SFA.

I think OZ should focus on manufacturing. This is a value-added way to create new wealth. It has stopped building its own car brands and relied on natural resources.

Does it have its own brand of TV or computer or smartphone or... ???

If it has to buy all of that from other countries it is a wealth drain called negative trade balance and negative balance of payments.

No group can stand around with their hands in each others' pockets and believe they'll all get rich. Someone has to create new wealth. This is most easily done by converting raw materials into marketable and exportable products.

Australia is rich in land and natural resources and ocean and... It needs to maximize their value by adding value and this is what creates wealth and jobs.

I might be wrong, but isn't australia an island with a population of about 20+mn, with the nearest 1st world high wealth country Japan thousands of miles away.

No one is going to think to focus on australia as a manufacturing hub. If you reckon they can make and deliver a mobile phone for the same or less than china, then good luck

[chotthee]

Thai degree is much better than Farang degree.

Farang don't study much in university, wear no uniform, no 8am oath and no discipline.

Thai students must study very hard, a lot of homework, a lot of test that needs memorizing long equations and do difficult mathematics with a calculator (calculator not allowed in exam hall to prevent cheating).

Farang student depend on calculator so much, they did not think know that pi = 22/7, or sin 30 = 0.5.

[AYJAYDEE]

Same the world over for most fields of study. parents were wrong to send their kids to university. trade school is a better bet for most

And at 25 years of age they will have accrued more wealth than the usual university graduate, especially in a country like Australia. Plumbers and electricians do quite well for themselves. Vocational courses are seen only for the poor people, which is pretty sad. Salaries are very low here too.

it is the same here in canada. government have gutted the apprenticeship programs and now the big contractors are holding job fairs in europe to find tradespeople. meanwhile the university grads work at starbucks! i did a technical degree at university so i never had a problem but i always said that if i couldnt have done that i woulda done an instrumentation tech apprenticeship.

[Commerce]

It is well known, and widely accepted nowadays that, anywhere in the world, a graduate needs 3 years of re-training, in order to be at the 'perceived' level of 'graduate' (for a 3 or 4 year degree completion, that is).

A BA/BSc is generally used to display committment to completion only, or to stick out the course if you like, and is not really supposed to be a qualification that displays you know a great deal about real-life experiences at work.

However, what I observe about Thai graduates is that they never really, or initially, know what they want to study, and simply choose a degree to be near peers and friends after leaving school; thus not choosing a career path they know they are interested in, or indeed excel at. The same could be said about Western graduates/undergraduates also. Thus, it's not a problem unique to Thailand.

In my long-term experience, I wouldn't even say a Thai Master's is anywhere near Western degree level, however, and could be compared more to A'level standard. As for PhDs... more like a well completed Western undergraduate thesis.

However, there are exceptions, and King Mongkut's University is producing Masters on a par with the West - if not even exceeding such standards. A great deal depends upon the subject studied. Thailand is sure knocking out students of 'Tourism' in huge numbers, but as for specialist sciences etc., forget it.

Subject choice also affects pay scales upon graduation. All these issues need to be taken into consideration, and not just a sweeping statement about all Thai graduates. The OP is a little unfair.

[Commerce]

Thai degree is much better than Farang degree.

Farang don't study much in university, wear no uniform, no 8am oath and no discipline.

Thai students must study very hard, a lot of homework, a lot of test that needs memorizing long equations and do difficult mathematics with a calculator (calculator not allowed in exam hall to prevent cheating).

Farang student depend on calculator so much, they did not think know that pi = 22/7, or sin 30 = 0.5.

........ pi = 22/7

Go design a wheel...!!

Thai degree is much better than farang degree........

[victor70]

Same the world over for most fields of study. parents were wrong to send their kids to university. trade school is a better bet for most

And at 25 years of age they will have accrued more wealth than the usual university graduate, especially in a country like Australia. Plumbers and electricians do quite well for themselves. Vocational courses are seen only for the poor people, which is pretty sad. Salaries are very low here too.

Try in Belgium to find a plumper my ant at to wheat about 2 months to get a plumber at home for repair

[AYJAYDEE]

Thai degree is much better than Farang degree.

Farang don't study much in university, wear no uniform, no 8am oath and no discipline.

Thai students must study very hard, a lot of homework, a lot of test that needs memorizing long equations and do difficult mathematics with a calculator (calculator not allowed in exam hall to prevent cheating).

Farang student depend on calculator so much, they did not think know that pi = 22/7, or sin 30 = 0.5.

........ pi = 22/7

Go design a wheel...!!

Thai degree is much better than farang degree........

why is the value of pi funny?

[Commerce]

Thai degree is much better than Farang degree.

Farang don't study much in university, wear no uniform, no 8am oath and no discipline.

Thai students must study very hard, a lot of homework, a lot of test that needs memorizing long equations and do difficult mathematics with a calculator (calculator not allowed in exam hall to prevent cheating).

Farang student depend on calculator so much, they did not think know that pi = 22/7, or sin 30 = 0.5.

........ pi = 22/7

Go design a wheel...!!

Thai degree is much better than farang degree........

why is the value of pi funny?

You think pi=22/7 also?

[banglassie]

I never finished my studies when I was younger, but I am working on them now.
However, it never crossed my mind that I would be able to earn more if I had a bachelor degree than what I earned while I didn't have one, at least not while I lived in Scandinavia.

Here I only see two reasons to get one:
1. As a 'proof' of nothing really, persistence perhaps (or just showing that you are prepared to do boring stuff to get a paper you want..), which in turn will enable more work possibilities for me. However, I never expected the openings to give me loads of more $$

2. The only real reason for a BA. IMO is to continue studying and get a Master (and/or if you don't die of boredom before, get a PhD).
(also, for me it's a way to get 50.000/month until I complete BA. and master. Which is a fairly good income here. And between terms am still able to go for 3 months of seasonal work in Scandi, and come back with about 280.000-350.000 baht. (while still being able to save the allowance part of the study loan, to pay back the actual loan later on).

In other words, in my eyes it's all just a lot of BS, unless you study something that you TRULY have a passion for. I have no statistics, but my guess is that the vast majority around the world that complete their Bachelor and start working will end up working in a field that's not really what they studied for...

Edited September 22, 2014 by banglassie

[AYJAYDEE]

Thai degree is much better than Farang degree.

Farang don't study much in university, wear no uniform, no 8am oath and no discipline.

Thai students must study very hard, a lot of homework, a lot of test that needs memorizing long equations and do difficult mathematics with a calculator (calculator not allowed in exam hall to prevent cheating).

Farang student depend on calculator so much, they did not think know that pi = 22/7, or sin 30 = 0.5.

........ pi = 22/7

Go design a wheel...!!

Thai degree is much better than farang degree........

why is the value of pi funny?

You think pi=22/7 also?

no, its a simple approximation that saves memorizing a string of decimals. there is no exact value of pi.

[fab4]

Surely there's degree in military studies? Big growth area, vast opportunities for enhancement. With the right qualities they could become one of the 1000 plus generals eventually.

[GarryP]

One of the problems here and it seems everywhere there is no real world education taught. Theory and history are great but to make it in the real world these kids need to be given some applicable skills or they will just flounder. I have 2 girls in the system right now. 1 just graduated from the Uni and I would equate her education level to be about a high school graduate in the U S She doesn't have much in the way of marketable skills and she is finding this out the hard way now, as she is having a very difficult time finding a job.

My son is in the same position. Finding it difficult to get a job that pays a fair wage/salary. He took a computer training course, which is recognized by the Ministry of Education, to add something to his CV, even though he was already able to use most of the programs covered by the course.

[NeverSure]

Yes the same applies in OZ, with Geologists the unemployment rate is 15 unemployed to 1 of everyone else, same across all degree students now the enrolments are dropping off as they see their mates still looking for work 2 years later after graduating , this also indicates the Australian mining industry is not as healthy as some would like you to believe, some of my Thai family have had degrees in Media and one did work as local TV manager, the whole station didn't get paid for 2months, so they all walked out, they have mostly given up looking and do other work, which pay's SFA.

I think OZ should focus on manufacturing. This is a value-added way to create new wealth. It has stopped building its own car brands and relied on natural resources.

Does it have its own brand of TV or computer or smartphone or... ???

If it has to buy all of that from other countries it is a wealth drain called negative trade balance and negative balance of payments.

No group can stand around with their hands in each others' pockets and believe they'll all get rich. Someone has to create new wealth. This is most easily done by converting raw materials into marketable and exportable products.

Australia is rich in land and natural resources and ocean and... It needs to maximize their value by adding value and this is what creates wealth and jobs.

I might be wrong, but isn't australia an island with a population of about 20+mn, with the nearest 1st world high wealth country Japan thousands of miles away.

No one is going to think to focus on australia as a manufacturing hub. If you reckon they can make and deliver a mobile phone for the same or less than china, then good luck

You make the point, thank you. Japan is also an island in the middle of nowhere but with a development and engineering culture not unlike Germany's. Germany started exporting the VW Beetle with great success in the 50's, and Japan came along and kicked their butts in that area with a conventional Datsun and Toyota that had a water cooled engine, a real heater, some space between your face and the windshield, and a real trunk. They were quieter, smoother, more powerful, more comfortable and were really a very small "real" car. They took at least the US by storm because the US was caught sleeping in that market.

Japanese means quality. They manufacture all kinds of high tech with their own designs. They aren't sucking hind tit like Thailand does by manufacturing what someone else developed for someone else. Yes they are good copiers, but aren't we all in some areas.

Look at what Japan manufactures and exports. What location advantage to they have over Australia?

The US developed the internet and so much software and hardware for it that is was up and running but without a good GUI. Then a Brit developed the hypertext markup language (HTML) and suddenly we had the web page instead of just DOS. More and more development and manufacturing followed and it made a ton of millionaires, and a ton of good jobs. The Brit's web page is probably what attracted the masses to the PC and the MAC. Suddenly it was easy where DOS certainly wasn't.

This is all new wealth and a new business model of several varieties. But it's jobs we never had before and they are great jobs.

[Commerce]

........ pi = 22/7

Go design a wheel...!!

Thai degree is much better than farang degree........

why is the value of pi funny?

You think pi=22/7 also?

no, its a simple approximation that saves memorizing a string of decimals. there is no exact value of pi.

22/7 is not used in the engineering world - and that is my point. So much for Thai degrees being much better than Western degrees, therefore.

There is an exact value of pi, FYI, and it has been calculated accordingly.

I certainly would not drive a car whose wheels have been designed and pressed using the assumption of pi=22/7.

They'd be totally out of round after a million cycles (and that's not a very long time at all).

Computers used in manufacturing now use way over 30 decimal places for pi, where tooling accuracies are concerned, and cutting is concerned, because up-to-date cutters themselves (reamers, boring tools etc.) are now manufactured using nano-accuracies, way beyond what 22/7 can give as an approximation to 5 dec. places.

Thus, the assumption chotthee made indicates the level of Thai degree awareness of what is real, and what is not!

[NeverSure]

One of the problems here and it seems everywhere there is no real world education taught. Theory and history are great but to make it in the real world these kids need to be given some applicable skills or they will just flounder. I have 2 girls in the system right now. 1 just graduated from the Uni and I would equate her education level to be about a high school graduate in the U S She doesn't have much in the way of marketable skills and she is finding this out the hard way now, as she is having a very difficult time finding a job.

My son is in the same position. Finding it difficult to get a job that pays a fair wage/salary. He took a computer training course, which is recognized by the Ministry of Education, to add something to his CV, even though he was already able to use most of the programs covered by the course.

If your son is in a place that isn't alive with development of technology in his area, then he might need to move to a country that is. There was a guy on here from NZ who said his son, and I think some friends, were in the US and were really happy at what a land of opportunity it is for their computer skills. He said they were doing much better than they ever could in NZ. The same would be true in OZ and perhaps the UK. I don't know those markets.

[Soutpeel]

One of the problems here and it seems everywhere there is no real world education taught. Theory and history are great but to make it in the real world these kids need to be given some applicable skills or they will just flounder. I have 2 girls in the system right now. 1 just graduated from the Uni and I would equate her education level to be about a high school graduate in the U S She doesn't have much in the way of marketable skills and she is finding this out the hard way now, as she is having a very difficult time finding a job.

Correct, I have seen jobs here in Thailand where they require bachelors degree, but same thing in USA requires only a high school diploma. So Thai degrees are no where near the same standard as western degrees.

Anyway, that's really not the issue. The issue is that Bachelor Degrees were never meant as being vocational programs. They are purely education for the sake of learning only.

If ever anyone learnt anything in a Bachelors degree it was to be able to think, question, understand problems and find solutions. That's not enough for a career or job. But it's a good start. If any graduate can't make out with that then they really should have chosen a trade school instead.

This is most likely the most insightful post on the state of play in Thailand on this whole thread... although I dont fully agree with your statement of standards of Thai degrees versus western degree's, IMHO the standard of "western degree's" has certainly "dumbed" down considerably over the last 25-30 years and just about any monkey even with marginal literacy in the 3 "Rs" can get a degree in the west these days...

There is a decided lack of proper vocational, training/skills/careers in Thailand, ie your electrian's, plumbers, welders, ie hands on skilled professsions/jobs and this is where the focus should be in giving people marketable skills and rewarding careers, there is too much emphasis on obtaining a "bit paper" which doesnt give a person hand's on skills.

The funny thing from personal experience is I dont think a lot of people realise how much money a skilled good hands "tradesman" can make, for example I know Thai welders, real welder's i might add , not the sun glasses/burning bits of wire varient most TV believe are "welders",

Some of these boys are "creaming" it and would make the vast majority of graduate's blush, when it comes to the earning/career stakes and most have not done much more than completed high school and most even havent been to a trade school and have THB 5-10 milion houses (paid for) new cars every couple of years, and very little worry about the amount of money in the bank, now although some earn their money working out side Thailand, there are some in the same position who have never worked outside Thailand.

and how have they done this you may ask ?......being skilled hands on welders, not a degree in sight

[Commerce]

I never finished my studies when I was younger, but I am working on them now.

However, it never crossed my mind that I would be able to earn more if I had a bachelor degree than what I earned while I didn't have one, at least not while I lived in Scandinavia.

Here I only see two reasons to get one:

1. As a 'proof' of nothing really, persistence perhaps (or just showing that you are prepared to do boring stuff to get a paper you want..), which in turn will enable more work possibilities for me. However, I never expected the openings to give me loads of more $$

2. The only real reason for a BA. IMO is to continue studying and get a Master (and/or if you don't die of boredom before, get a PhD).

(also, for me it's a way to get 50.000/month until I complete BA. and master. Which is a fairly good income here. And between terms am still able to go for 3 months of seasonal work in Scandi, and come back with about 280.000-350.000 baht. (while still being able to save the allowance part of the study loan, to pay back the actual loan later on).

In other words, in my eyes it's all just a lot of BS, unless you study something that you TRULY have a passion for. I have no statistics, but my guess is that the vast majority around the world that complete their Bachelor and start working will end up working in a field that's not really what they studied for...

Good luck to you!

As you correctly said, most BA/BScs are to show persistence and committment to seeing something finished. Employers only consider such a paper primarily in the realms of 'this graduate can stick at it.' There's no point in employing somebody you have no idea about, as to whether they can stick at something for a long period of time, or not. Investment = time and money....... it is easier to choose a graduate than school cert. holder.

Having said that, some students are not cut for university life, or have talents elsewhere, and so should be encouraged to take on the 'real-life' environment, instead of going to a university as a family or peer expectation, and later failing.

I'm guessing you're studying in Sweden. Best of luck, after you graduate. Sadhu!

[mrtoad]

A degree is no guarantee of empoyment, although a lot of people are bought up to believe a degree will open up all sorts of doors. The biggest issue, and it's no different in the west is that a lot of degrees that are available to take, are pretty worthless - and have no relevance to working life. A few posters have pointed out that having a vocational qualification often is the way to go. There will always be jobs available in certain areas; welders, carpenters, electricians, plumbers, nurses, teachers, doctors, certain areas of engineering, but a BA in History isn't really going to mean squat in most jobs. The standards in the west have slipped as well, 20-25 years ago most students didn't go to University in the UK, know the numbers a far higher, as it's become easier to get onto a course. In my profession the standards IMO have slipped, with final year students still not grasping the basics.

[Soutpeel]

I think OZ should focus on manufacturing. This is a value-added way to create new wealth. It has stopped building its own car brands and relied on natural resources.

The problem specifically with OZ is that it is too expensive to manufacture a lot of things there due to the labour costs, in fact the "creation of wealth" in Aussie over the last 20 odd years, has infact increased the costs of everything there.

therefore if you locally manufacture OZ, because of the high wages paid, unit cost is higher, therefore for people to afford the locally manufactured product, you need to pay them more and so the cycle continues.

This is why manufacturing has moved to places like China, Bangladesh and other developing nation's, raw material costs are pretty much the same worldwide, its the labour cost's that "kills" things

[AYJAYDEE]

22/7 is not used in the engineering world - and that is my point. So much for Thai degrees being much better than Western degrees, therefore.

There is an exact value of pi, FYI, and it has been calculated accordingly.

I certainly would not drive a car whose wheels have been designed and pressed using the assumption of pi=22/7.

They'd be totally out of round after a million cycles (and that's not a very long time at all).

Computers used in manufacturing now use way over 30 decimal places for pi, where tooling accuracies are concerned, and cutting is concerned, because up-to-date cutters themselves (reamers, boring tools etc.) are now manufactured using nano-accuracies, way beyond what 22/7 can give as an approximation to 5 dec. places.

Thus, the assumption chotthee made indicates the level of Thai degree awareness of what is real, and what is not!

you are wrong. there is no exact value of pi. it is an irrational number and cannot be defined by a rational number. it has NEVER been calculated to an absolute value. and you dont design a wheel using pi. you design a wheel using a given diameter and the resulting circumference is approximate by choosing an approximate value of pi. and the value you chose would have absolutely nothing to do with it going out of round. and the accuracy given by 22/7 is good enough for the average layperson calculating circumferences or areas.

[harness]

So what's a Thai kid leaving high school supposed to do then? Three or four years of uni will leave him three or four hundred thousand out of pocket but at least with a degree the man down at the 7/11 might consider him for a job. .....or at the local cannery.

[KarenBravo]

As robotics and further automation take more and more jobs over the next few generations, what are these people going to do? At some point there are just not going to be enough decent jobs for people to make a good living.

Work in the factories that make the robots?

[AYJAYDEE]

So what's a Thai kid leaving high school supposed to do then? Three or four years of uni will leave him three or four hundred thousand out of pocket but at least with a degree the man down at the 7/11 might consider him for a job. .....or at the local cannery.

take a trade

[banglassie]

22/7 is not used in the engineering world - and that is my point. So much for Thai degrees being much better than Western degrees, therefore.

There is an exact value of pi, FYI, and it has been calculated accordingly.

I certainly would not drive a car whose wheels have been designed and pressed using the assumption of pi=22/7.

They'd be totally out of round after a million cycles (and that's not a very long time at all).

Computers used in manufacturing now use way over 30 decimal places for pi, where tooling accuracies are concerned, and cutting is concerned, because up-to-date cutters themselves (reamers, boring tools etc.) are now manufactured using nano-accuracies, way beyond what 22/7 can give as an approximation to 5 dec. places.

Thus, the assumption chotthee made indicates the level of Thai degree awareness of what is real, and what is not!

Haha, I so agree. The "22/7" technique holds true for about 2 decimals. That's not really ok when speaking about something like pi (AT ALL)

And as for "Thai students are not allowed to use calculators for exam so they won't cheat", well that's just stupid... If you are doing some serious math a calculator is not cheating. it's a time saver. What good comes out of someone memorizing long and complicated equations? How many will remember them a year (or even a week) after the test? Completely useless...

As for the uniform, oath and other draconian stuff Chotthee seems to love I can only "sigh"..

(Btw, Chotthee, what's with the Orwell/Prayut quote in your signature? I can't figure out what you are trying to implement, not sure if you can figure it out yourself?)

[55Jay]

Thai degree is much better than Farang degree.

Farang don't study much in university, wear no uniform, no 8am oath and no discipline.

Thai students must study very hard, a lot of homework, a lot of test that needs memorizing long equations and do difficult mathematics with a calculator (calculator not allowed in exam hall to prevent cheating).

Farang student depend on calculator so much, they did not think know that pi = 22/7, or sin 30 = 0.5.

Putting aside the nationalistic chest thumping, it would seem Thai industry disagrees with your assessment.

[laolover88]

I think it is excellent news. As Mr Toad has pointed out:

There will always be jobs available in certain areas; welders, carpenters, electricians, plumbers, nurses, teachers, doctors.

Well the only one of those you need a degree is a doctor. Also probably veterinarians and maybe architects..but we all know they are unemployable.

I regret to say I have degrees from 3 of the universities which were in the recent poll of the top 5. Complete waste of time. My mother was fond of telling me, in some macabre fairy tale, how she had seen graduates on the streets of London selling matches in the 1930's.

We are even wondering to keep our children in school let alone provide the debt basket for them to go to University.

The collapse of the scam that is contemporary higher education will I suspect be called for what it is. Our children need to know how to make things, design things, grow things, sell things and make money! They also need to develop a capacity for learning and disinterested intellectual curiosity. Both apparently absent in Universities and Colleges East and West.I think the fashionable word is 'entrepreneur'. I prefer to call it work!

[Soutpeel]

So what's a Thai kid leaving high school supposed to do then? Three or four years of uni will leave him three or four hundred thousand out of pocket but at least with a degree the man down at the 7/11 might consider him for a job. .....or at the local cannery.

go and get a proper trade

[Loles]

And, let's face it. Most Thai Bachelor degrees aren't worth the paper they are printed on.

I don't like the harsh criticism on TH here but now I have to say sadly it's true ...