Protecting the petrodollar: America gears up for a long war

[Scott]

A post with replies in colored font inside the quote box has been deleted. If you wish to respond, please do so outside the quote box. It is confusing and against forum rules.

[Gsxrnz]

IS - US......same same.

IS summarily executes people by beheading without a trial and their only crime is being non-muslim.

Your post reveals more about you than I can possibly add here and remain within the rules.

Thanks for your input.

The acts of terrorism you describe are abhorrent and unjustifiable.

Equally abhorrent and unjustifiable is the executions of innocent non combatants in the middle-east as a result of US "strategic" bombings and missile attacks. Guantanamo Bay and the acts of inhumanity committed there are also unjustifiable.

The UN has had a hell of a time over the last 50 years being able to actually define what terrorism is. It would seem obvious wouldn't it, however because the US and it's allies (my country included) continue to commit acts that would otherwise be generally classified as terrorism by any right thinking person, they have to constantly redefine the word to avoid them being labelled terrorists. Check it out, makes interesting reading.

As you will see, I consider any act of terrorism totally unjustifiable.

Unfortunately, both sides in this long standing conflict consider the other side to be the terrorists.

The reality is that both sides are terrorists in my opinion, but the US, the UK, and their allies don't quite see it that way.

If it's any consolation to you, I think the same way about the IRA conflict - the British government were no lesser terrorists than the IRA.

[Publicus]

A quote from OP:

* "Are you confused by what is going on in the Middle East? Let me explain.

We support the Iraqi government in the fight against Islamic State.

We don't like IS, but IS is supported by Saudi Arabia, whom we do like.

We don't like President Assad in Syria. We support the fight against him, but not IS, which is also fighting against him.

"We don't like Iran, but Iran supports the Iraqi government in the fight against IS.

So, some of our friends support our enemies and some of our enemies are our friends, and some of our enemies are fighting against our other enemies, whom we want to lose, but we don't want our enemies who are fighting our enemies to win.

"If the people we want to defeat are defeated, they might be replaced by people we like even less.

And all this started by us invading a country to drive out terrorists who weren't actually there until we went in to drive them out. Do you understand now?"* (by some Aubrey Bailey, reader of some Daily Mail)

When I'm told that USA is fighting in every nook and cranny of the world for Democracy - I don't believe it.

When I'm told that Russians are stirring troubles in Ukraine protecting Russian-speaking ethnos - I don't believe it.

When I'm told that Israelis are the same Terrorists as the Palestinian Arabs from Gaza - I don' believe it.

When I'm told that USA takes many Muslim states as allies to fight Jihad - I don't believe this is wise or true.

When I'm told that many Muslim states join coalition to fight IS (Jihad) because they seized control of some oil wells - I believe it!

When I'm told that USA and Muslim states are in this war protecting Petrodollars - I believe it!

When I'm told that Islam is Good - I don't believe it. Even if Obama and Osama together say it.

When I'm told that we can win against Militants of any kind because we are armed with superior weapons and Political Correctness Ideology - I dont believe it.

So it looks like there is a lot of confusion in my mind.

Am I a believer or a non-believer?

I know I'm not a True Believer! Who am I?

Could somebody clear this mess in my understanding of the 'Meaning of Life'? Where are you, Aubrey?

Do you know why propaganda is so successful?

Because everyone reacts before they take a proper gander.

No, my friend. I think propaganda is so successful because very few people go to the trouble of thinking for themselves.

On the other hand it is so successful because too many people are 'easy' believers.

Agencies controlling and spreading propaganda are professionals. They always appeal to the lowest common denominator among people.

And these are usually the lowest thoughts and emotions like:

Greed, Envy, Hate, Intolerance, Group/Crowd/Herd/Pack Mentality, Fear of anything New, Different and so on.

Propaganda is not new. And people's susceptibility to propaganda is not new.

It was used by Commies, Nazis, Liberals, All Religions - and always successfully. And always to the detriment of the people.

Good thing you and I are on to this stuff, eh?

For sure!

[Seastallion]

<script type='text/javascript'>window.mod_pagespeed_start = Number(new Date());</script>

The biggest wonderment to me is why the US is still steadfastly against Iran? I know, sore feelings after the fallout of dislodging the democratically installed Iranian government so many decades ago. But Iran offers everything the US needs in defeating IS. Perhaps defeating IS is NOT in US interests, but fighting IS is. (just thinking out loud, as it were.)

1) Iran's support for terrorists

2) Iran's support for the Asaad Government

3) Iran's aim to develop nuclear weapons capability

4) Iran's aim to destroy Israel.

5) etc.

US alone cannot defeat ISIS without putting boots on the ground. ISIS is a Middle East issue and must be dealt with by the Middle Eastern countries. And that is why the US is working to form and maintain a M.E. Coalition to do so.

Actually, all those are just excuses for.....Iran's bourse trading oil for yen and euros.

[Seastallion]

IS - US......same same.

IS summarily executes people by beheading without a trial and their only crime is being non-muslim.

Your post reveals more about you than I can possibly add here and remain within the rules.

US summarily executes people by drone attack without trial and their only crime is living in a village that may or may not have a terrorist nearby.

[Asiantravel]

It's always so funny view the post that comment that America's appetite for oil drives it to fight in the Middle East and elsewhere. For those who are not 'in the know' The USA has now become the world's largets producer of Petroleum products in the world, first natural gas and soon crude oil, all due to 'fracking' (another story in itself). If America wanted oil so much it could have just stayed in Iraq, but it did not.

Now I'm certainly cautious about entering another conflict in the ME, most Americans are, but when factions and so called Islamic states excecute your citizens on video in crude fashion, you are going to get a 'cause and effect' result. Any other country would react the same way when their citizens have been harmed....

It's not 'brain surgery' but everyone has to lable every thing a country does for a conspiracy theory.

Yes but having enough oil to satisfy your own domestic requirements is not the same as preserving the dominance of the petrodollar. This is what Russia and other BRICS countries are seeking to knock off its perch.

[F430murci]

It's always so funny view the post that comment that America's appetite for oil drives it to fight in the Middle East and elsewhere. For those who are not 'in the know' The USA has now become the world's largets producer of Petroleum products in the world, first natural gas and soon crude oil, all due to 'fracking' (another story in itself). If America wanted oil so much it could have just stayed in Iraq, but it did not.

Now I'm certainly cautious about entering another conflict in the ME, most Americans are, but when factions and so called Islamic states excecute your citizens on video in crude fashion, you are going to get a 'cause and effect' result. Any other country would react the same way when their citizens have been harmed....

It's not 'brain surgery' but everyone has to lable every thing a country does for a conspiracy theory.

Yes but having enough oil to satisfy your own domestic requirements is not the same as preserving the dominance of the petrodollar. This is what Russia and other BRICS countries are seeking to knock off its perch.

Haha, love how those obsessed with US and eaten up with resentments regarding US live for threads like this. Poor guys!

Lol about Russia doing anything. Sadly, Russia has a serious inflation problem right now, oil prices are dropping, there are in rescession and/or in the cusp of stagflation.

Meanwhile, things are rolling along great here and much to your sure grin will remain that way. Just the way it is. Sure, we will have ups and downs, but corporate America and GDP is strong and even or lazy poor that prefer no work and government handouts have it better than most middle class Russians.

[Asiantravel]

It's always so funny view the post that comment that America's appetite for oil drives it to fight in the Middle East and elsewhere. For those who are not 'in the know' The USA has now become the world's largets producer of Petroleum products in the world, first natural gas and soon crude oil, all due to 'fracking' (another story in itself). If America wanted oil so much it could have just stayed in Iraq, but it did not.

Now I'm certainly cautious about entering another conflict in the ME, most Americans are, but when factions and so called Islamic states excecute your citizens on video in crude fashion, you are going to get a 'cause and effect' result. Any other country would react the same way when their citizens have been harmed....

It's not 'brain surgery' but everyone has to lable every thing a country does for a conspiracy theory.

Yes but having enough oil to satisfy your own domestic requirements is not the same as preserving the dominance of the petrodollar. This is what Russia and other BRICS countries are seeking to knock off its perch.

Haha, love how those obsessed with US and eaten up with resentments regarding US live for threads like this. Poor guys!

Lol about Russia doing anything. Sadly, Russia has a serious inflation problem right now, oil prices are dropping, there are in rescession and/or in the cusp of stagflation.

Meanwhile, things are rolling along great here and much to your sure grin will remain that way. Just the way it is. Sure, we will have ups and downs, but corporate America and GDP is strong and even or lazy poor that prefer no work and government handouts have it better than most middle class Russians.

I was actually talking about all BRICS countries together but as you mention it Russia's external debt is down 1% to $720.9 billion in H1 2014 .........compared to USA's almost $18 trillion debt.

And as for your comment “even or lazy poor that prefer no work and government handouts have it better than most middle class Russians “ that's the problem. USA’s so-called economic model is now nothing that more than an illusion

For the first time in history, the number of people in the United States receiving assistance from the federal government to pay for food has exceeded the number of full-time, private sector workers

http://www.breitbart.com/InstaBlog/2013/07/08/Citizens-Receiving-Food-Aid-from-Federal-Gov-t-Now-Outnumber-Full-Time-Private-Sector-Workers

Edited September 26, 2014 by Asiantravel

[ClutchClark]

IS - US......same same.

IS summarily executes people by beheading without a trial and their only crime is being non-muslim.

Your post reveals more about you than I can possibly add here and remain within the rules.

Thanks for your input.

The acts of terrorism you describe are abhorrent and unjustifiable.

Equally abhorrent and unjustifiable is the executions of innocent non combatants in the middle-east as a result of US "strategic" bombings and missile attacks. Guantanamo Bay and the acts of inhumanity committed there are also unjustifiable.

The UN has had a hell of a time over the last 50 years being able to actually define what terrorism is. It would seem obvious wouldn't it, however because the US and it's allies (my country included) continue to commit acts that would otherwise be generally classified as terrorism by any right thinking person, they have to constantly redefine the word to avoid them being labelled terrorists. Check it out, makes interesting reading.

As you will see, I consider any act of terrorism totally unjustifiable.

Unfortunately, both sides in this long standing conflict consider the other side to be the terrorists.

The reality is that both sides are terrorists in my opinion, but the US, the UK, and their allies don't quite see it that way.

If it's any consolation to you, I think the same way about the IRA conflict - the British government were no lesser terrorists than the IRA.

I agree with you about Gitmo.

However, I see the US offer humanitarian aid and advances in science, technology, medicine to the world and you appear to be blind to all that.

In the US, we offer all citizens and non-citizens the personal freedom to practice their chosen religion.

Its difficult for me to comprehend how someone can offer such a dumbed down comparison as your first post.

[Asiantravel]

The PetroYuan Cometh: China Docks Navy Destroyer In Iran's Strait Of Hormuz Port

for the first time in history, China has docked a Navy Destroyer in the Southern Iranian port of Bandar-Abbas - right across the Straits of Hormuz from 'US stronghold-for-now' Bahrain and UAE.

http://abcnews.go.com/International/wireStory/chinese-destroyer-docks-iran-visit-25654474

[rhythmworx]

The biggest wonderment to me is why the US is still steadfastly against Iran? I know, sore feelings after the fallout of dislodging the democratically installed Iranian government so many decades ago. But Iran offers everything the US needs in defeating IS. Perhaps defeating IS is NOT in US interests, but fighting IS is. (just thinking out loud, as it were.)

because Iran hate Israel or so we are led to believe.

Edited September 26, 2014 by rhythmworx

[F430murci]

It's always so funny view the post that comment that America's appetite for oil drives it to fight in the Middle East and elsewhere. For those who are not 'in the know' The USA has now become the world's largets producer of Petroleum products in the world, first natural gas and soon crude oil, all due to 'fracking' (another story in itself). If America wanted oil so much it could have just stayed in Iraq, but it did not.

Now I'm certainly cautious about entering another conflict in the ME, most Americans are, but when factions and so called Islamic states excecute your citizens on video in crude fashion, you are going to get a 'cause and effect' result. Any other country would react the same way when their citizens have been harmed....

It's not 'brain surgery' but everyone has to lable every thing a country does for a conspiracy theory.

Yes but having enough oil to satisfy your own domestic requirements is not the same as preserving the dominance of the petrodollar. This is what Russia and other BRICS countries are seeking to knock off its perch.

Haha, love how those obsessed with US and eaten up with resentments regarding US live for threads like this. Poor guys!

Lol about Russia doing anything. Sadly, Russia has a serious inflation problem right now, oil prices are dropping, there are in rescession and/or in the cusp of stagflation.

Meanwhile, things are rolling along great here and much to your sure grin will remain that way. Just the way it is. Sure, we will have ups and downs, but corporate America and GDP is strong and even or lazy poor that prefer no work and government handouts have it better than most middle class Russians.

I was actually talking about all BRICS countries together but as you mention it Russia's external debt is down 1% to $720.9 billion in H1 2014 .........compared to USA's almost $18 trillion debt.

And as for your comment even or lazy poor that prefer no work and government handouts have it better than most middle class Russians that's the problem. USAs so-called economic model is now nothing that more than an illusion

For the first time in history, the number of people in the United States receiving assistance from the federal government to pay for food has exceeded the number of full-time, private sector workers

http://www.breitbart.com/InstaBlog/2013/07/08/Citizens-Receiving-Food-Aid-from-Federal-Gov-t-Now-Outnumber-Full-Time-Private-Sector-Workers

I covered US debt ad naseum in another thread, what it means, how it is overstated for political games and how it is good and necessary for world economy. Citing debt as you did reveals ignorance about macroeconomist and world markets.

Lol, Russia would love some debt about now, but no one wants anything Russia offers as a result of prior default in 98 and unstable economy.

Russia is now trying to auction bonds or launch debt sale, but the rate they have to pay and risk associated wont result in the number of takers Russia needs or ability to general sales Russia needs.

Haha, carry in with your doom and gloom and reading zerohedge and breitbart if it makes you feel better about YOUR situation. Jeez, our food stamp folks are driving around in BMWs living in 2,000 sq foot properties talking on their new iPhones watching HD cable TV. And they have free health care!

Live is great here!!!

Edited September 26, 2014 by F430murci

[ggt]

It looks inevitable that the US and its main allies will send ground forces into the region again. Islamic State militants, who actually pose no terror threat to the US, are merely the excuse Washington is using to start another war.

Where have you been...where do you get your news...Aljazeera?...

ISIS is a threat to ALL humanity...killing innocent people because of their religious beliefs...citizenship...or for not being willing to join their murderous group or convert to Islam...

Killing all the Islamic terrorist will do nothing to preserve the "petrodollar"...

Forces have already been set in motion to remove the $dollar as the world's currency...by the BRICS nations (Brazil, Russia, India, China, and South America) to dethrone the petrodollar...and others countries wanting to join the exodus...

China and Russia just concluded a huge energy deal...using their own currencies...leaving out the $dollar...many more transactions leaving out the $dollar have been enacted...many more will follow...until the $dollar no longer dominates the world's business transactions...

ISIS...is one story.....the Petrodollar is another...the only connection is the US and the Saudis working together...this is not about economics...so much as humanitarian relief where terrorist now reign...

[Robert2006]

It's always so funny view the post that comment that America's appetite for oil drives it to fight in the Middle East and elsewhere. For those who are not 'in the know' The USA has now become the world's largets producer of Petroleum products in the world, first natural gas and soon crude oil, all due to 'fracking' (another story in itself). If America wanted oil so much it could have just stayed in Iraq, but it did not.

Now I'm certainly cautious about entering another conflict in the ME, most Americans are, but when factions and so called Islamic states excecute your citizens on video in crude fashion, you are going to get a 'cause and effect' result. Any other country would react the same way when their citizens have been harmed....

It's not 'brain surgery' but everyone has to lable every thing a country does for a conspiracy theory.

I believe it’s more about protecting the Dollar than about oil. In my opinion the US is primarily concerned with trying to maintain the Petro Dollar hegemony. The US Dollar, by OPEC treaty is used by the world as the settlement currency for buying and selling oil, it creates a constant demand for Dollars and that is a great benefit to the US. The BRICS nations (Brazil, Russia, India, China and S. Africa) are now using offsets to settle their oil purchases (trading one commodity for another) and settling any discrepancies at the end of the year in gold.

If all the Dollars used to settle oil purchases by other countries get sold and come back to the US that will cause enormous domestic inflation in America. I’m no expert on the subject but throughout history the world’s reserve currencies didn’t change hands peacefully. If the world decides to reject the Dollar I don’t think the US government will tolerate the loss of that much power without a fight. I’ll tell you as an American citizen we essentially have no control of our government, they do what they want; there is not much that anyone can do if they decide they want to go to war.

You say it’s not brain surgery but the reality is it is an extremely complex situation to speculate about. Calling something a conspiracy theory just clouds the issue; governments throughout history in fact have misled their populations to get what they want. Remember the Gulf of Tonkin incident that started the Vietnam War, it was faked and the “weapons of mass destruction” that got us into Iraq, there were none. Those were both called conspiracy theories at one time now they are confirmed. No one really knows who is under the masks those guys are wearing as they perform those gruesome acts in the Middle East.

As the common man, we are in reality just along for the ride there is very little we can do to effect what governments decide to do to protect their interest. We don’t have access to the intelligence that they have; we are all just making our best guess on the subject.

[Robert2006]

F430murci

I covered US debt ad naseum in another thread, what it means, how it is overstated for political games and how it is good and necessary for world economy. Citing debt as you did reveals ignorance about macroeconomist and world markets.

Lol, Russia would love some debt about now, but no one wants anything Russia offers as a result of prior default in 98 and unstable economy.

Russia is now trying to auction bonds or launch debt sale, but the rate they have to pay and risk associated wont result in the number of takers Russia needs or ability to general sales Russia needs.

Haha, carry in with your doom and gloom and reading zerohedge and breitbart if it makes you feel better about YOUR situation. Jeez, our food stamp folks are driving around in BMWs living in 2,000 sq foot properties talking on their new iPhones watching HD cable TV. And they have free health care!

Live is great here!!!

F430murci

My God do you really believe food stamp folks driving around in BMWs living in 2,000 sq. foot properties talking on their new iPhones with HD cable TV and free health care is something that can be sustained? Less than half of the US population currently has a job and the Baby Boomers are retiring at a rate of 10,000 a day. The money to do this can’t keep being created out of thin air and add to our national debt forever, people actually have to be working to support these benefits. Economically this is a frightening situation, to me any way. I am fascinated to read your thread covering your perception and thoughts regarding US debt, please direct me to it.

[kinmaew]

Iraq/Middle east War v3 or 4 I have lost count. What has been achieved to date with current policies = Islamic State

So looks like they are hell bent on doing the same thing again knowing full well of past failures very much like an inveterate gambler. More lives and billions will be wasted on this.

Imagine the amount of urgent medical care that could be provided to help people especially in the US with the "Yank style health care" $35k to replace a finger as Michael Moore put it this is insane and Australia is following suit with a disgusting far right conservative government and PM who simply will not accept the realities about climate change. Keep filling up the tank and build more and more bloody roads (No rail) and we obey US 100% they do no wrong.

Why is man so foolish? Why do we never learn? What will it take for us to learn?

[Asiantravel]

F430murci

I covered US debt ad naseum in another thread, what it means, how it is overstated for political games and how it is good and necessary for world economy. Citing debt as you did reveals ignorance about macroeconomist and world markets.

Lol, Russia would love some debt about now, but no one wants anything Russia offers as a result of prior default in 98 and unstable economy.

Russia is now trying to auction bonds or launch debt sale, but the rate they have to pay and risk associated wont result in the number of takers Russia needs or ability to general sales Russia needs.

Haha, carry in with your doom and gloom and reading zerohedge and breitbart if it makes you feel better about YOUR situation. Jeez, our food stamp folks are driving around in BMWs living in 2,000 sq foot properties talking on their new iPhones watching HD cable TV. And they have free health care!

Live is great here!!!

F430murci

My God do you really believe food stamp folks driving around in BMWs living in 2,000 sq. foot properties talking on their new iPhones with HD cable TV and free health care is something that can be sustained? Less than half of the US population currently has a job and the Baby Boomers are retiring at a rate of 10,000 a day. The money to do this can’t keep being created out of thin air and add to our national debt forever, people actually have to be working to support these benefits. Economically this is a frightening situation, to me any way. I am fascinated to read your thread covering your perception and thoughts regarding US debt, please direct me to it.

Robert its a relief to know that at least one other person doesn't think it's good that so many in USA are living this way. Sometimes I think F430murci is having everybody on because I can't believe he would seriously condone the continuation of this very troublesome trend and see it as something to cheerlead about.

And I would also be interested to read his interpretation of the US debt which I must have missed because I haven't seen it in any other thread.

Edited September 27, 2014 by Asiantravel

[Thaiready]

If it was about oil...we would just take it......you quack heads out there should know the US has more oil on American soill than all the Middle East combined.

[F430murci]

F430murci

I covered US debt ad naseum in another thread, what it means, how it is overstated for political games and how it is good and necessary for world economy. Citing debt as you did reveals ignorance about macroeconomist and world markets.

Lol, Russia would love some debt about now, but no one wants anything Russia offers as a result of prior default in 98 and unstable economy.

Russia is now trying to auction bonds or launch debt sale, but the rate they have to pay and risk associated wont result in the number of takers Russia needs or ability to general sales Russia needs.

Haha, carry in with your doom and gloom and reading zerohedge and breitbart if it makes you feel better about YOUR situation. Jeez, our food stamp folks are driving around in BMWs living in 2,000 sq foot properties talking on their new iPhones watching HD cable TV. And they have free health care!

Live is great here!!!

F430murci

My God do you really believe food stamp folks driving around in BMWs living in 2,000 sq. foot properties talking on their new iPhones with HD cable TV and free health care is something that can be sustained? Less than half of the US population currently has a job and the Baby Boomers are retiring at a rate of 10,000 a day. The money to do this cant keep being created out of thin air and add to our national debt forever, people actually have to be working to support these benefits. Economically this is a frightening situation, to me any way. I am fascinated to read your thread covering your perception and thoughts regarding US debt, please direct me to it.

Robert its a relief to know that at least one other person doesn't think it's good that so many in USA are living this way. Sometimes I think F430murci is having everybody on because I can't believe he would seriously condone the continuation of this very troublesome trend and see it as something to cheerlead about.

And I would also be interested to read his interpretation of the US debt which I must have missed because I haven't seen it in any other thread.

Haha, you guys lack knowledge and ability to research. I should charge for this or you should go to a business school, get an MBA or something if you really wanna know.

First, I do not like having to pay for and Cary dead weight (entitlement people), but I said it is hard for me to legitimately complain about amount of taxes I pay because I have been given opportunity to make enough to pay such a large amount of taxes.

Debt (abbreviated version)

Public debt is the important number. US public bedt is somewhere around 12.5 or about 75 % percent of GDP which is safe and acceptable ratio. 90% ratio is critical stage for developed, 70% ratio is critical stage for emerging market countries.

Our politicians and everyone with some business sense knows that public debt is the important figure, but media and politcak pundits throw around total US or national debt to rally base.

Public debt is a great means to get extra funds to invest in their economic growth. Public debt is a safe way for foreigners to invest in a country's growth by buying government bonds. This investment allows US to generate economic growth internally.

Our T bills are in demand because they are safer than other investment alternatives to countries needing returns, but safety for large cash reserves. Other countries need, are dependent upon dependent and rely upon the availability of US debt for their own economic issues. I explained this and public v, nation ad naseum in other posts.

BTW, you unemployment figures are comparable to the use of national instead of public debt to create confusion and alarm. Yep, many 16 to 18 year olds and college age children are not having to work now and are focusing on education. This is a positive families are in the position now. Older Americans who suddenly had to supplement their 2008 investment:retirement losses in 09, 10 and 11 no longer are seeking employment because their pensions are back to and above 2007 levels. This is a positive.

Things are fine and will continue to be fine.

[Asiantravel]

F430murci

I covered US debt ad naseum in another thread, what it means, how it is overstated for political games and how it is good and necessary for world economy. Citing debt as you did reveals ignorance about macroeconomist and world markets.

Lol, Russia would love some debt about now, but no one wants anything Russia offers as a result of prior default in 98 and unstable economy.

Russia is now trying to auction bonds or launch debt sale, but the rate they have to pay and risk associated wont result in the number of takers Russia needs or ability to general sales Russia needs.

Haha, carry in with your doom and gloom and reading zerohedge and breitbart if it makes you feel better about YOUR situation. Jeez, our food stamp folks are driving around in BMWs living in 2,000 sq foot properties talking on their new iPhones watching HD cable TV. And they have free health care!

Live is great here!!!

F430murci

My God do you really believe food stamp folks driving around in BMWs living in 2,000 sq. foot properties talking on their new iPhones with HD cable TV and free health care is something that can be sustained? Less than half of the US population currently has a job and the Baby Boomers are retiring at a rate of 10,000 a day. The money to do this cant keep being created out of thin air and add to our national debt forever, people actually have to be working to support these benefits. Economically this is a frightening situation, to me any way. I am fascinated to read your thread covering your perception and thoughts regarding US debt, please direct me to it.

Robert its a relief to know that at least one other person doesn't think it's good that so many in USA are living this way. Sometimes I think F430murci is having everybody on because I can't believe he would seriously condone the continuation of this very troublesome trend and see it as something to cheerlead about.

And I would also be interested to read his interpretation of the US debt which I must have missed because I haven't seen it in any other thread.

Haha, you guys lack knowledge and ability to research. I should charge for this or you should go to a business school, get an MBA or something if you really wanna know.

First, I do not like having to pay for and Cary dead weight (entitlement people), but I said it is hard for me to legitimately complain about amount of taxes I pay because I have been given opportunity to make enough to pay such a large amount of taxes.

Debt (abbreviated version)

Public debt is the important number. US public bedt is somewhere around 12.5 or about 75 % percent of GDP which is safe and acceptable ratio. 90% ratio is critical stage for developed, 70% ratio is critical stage for emerging market countries.

Our politicians and everyone with some business sense knows that public debt is the important figure, but media and politcak pundits throw around total US or national debt to rally base.

Public debt is a great means to get extra funds to invest in their economic growth. Public debt is a safe way for foreigners to invest in a country's growth by buying government bonds. This investment allows US to generate economic growth internally.

Our T bills are in demand because they are safer than other investment alternatives to countries needing returns, but safety for large cash reserves. Other countries need, are dependent upon dependent and rely upon the availability of US debt for their own economic issues. I explained this and public v, nation ad naseum in other posts.

BTW, you unemployment figures are comparable to the use of national instead of public debt to create confusion and alarm. Yep, many 16 to 18 year olds and college age children are not having to work now and are focusing on education. This is a positive families are in the position now. Older Americans who suddenly had to supplement their 2008 investment:retirement losses in 09, 10 and 11 no longer are seeking employment because their pensions are back to and above 2007 levels. This is a positive.

Things are fine and will continue to be fine.

you can't fuel an economy on debt

Edited September 27, 2014 by Asiantravel

[Johpa]

I believe it's more about protecting the Dollar than about oil. In my opinion the US is primarily concerned with trying to maintain the Petro Dollar hegemony. The US Dollar, by OPEC treaty is used by the world as the settlement currency for buying and selling oil, it creates a constant demand for Dollars and that is a great benefit to the US. The BRICS nations (Brazil, Russia, India, China and S. Africa) are now using offsets to settle their oil purchases (trading one commodity for another) and settling any discrepancies at the end of the year in gold.

Spot on so to speak. The First Gulf War was initiated after Saddam threatened to sell his oil outside the Petrodollar. It was not some unintentional gaff that encouraged Saddam to invade Kuwait. This is not just about the US, but also the "global" financial market in general, the bankers, who have all bought into the Petrodollar as the medium of international exchange. And even the Chinese don't want the Petrodollar threatened as it would greatly depreciate the money owned to them as US debt.

[Publicus]

<script type='text/javascript'>window.mod_pagespeed_start = Number(new Date());</script>

The biggest wonderment to me is why the US is still steadfastly against Iran? I know, sore feelings after the fallout of dislodging the democratically installed Iranian government so many decades ago. But Iran offers everything the US needs in defeating IS. Perhaps defeating IS is NOT in US interests, but fighting IS is. (just thinking out loud, as it were.)

1) Iran's support for terrorists

2) Iran's support for the Asaad Government

3) Iran's aim to develop nuclear weapons capability

4) Iran's aim to destroy Israel.

5) etc.

US alone cannot defeat ISIS without putting boots on the ground. ISIS is a Middle East issue and must be dealt with by the Middle Eastern countries. And that is why the US is working to form and maintain a M.E. Coalition to do so.

Actually, all those are just excuses for.....Iran's bourse trading oil for yen and euros.

More whack a whacky mole.

Iran's bourse is not trading across the board in Yuan or Euros. Tehran is doing extremely narrow trading in Yuan with Beijing only. India is doing very limited trading in Rupees with Russia only. In either instance the trade is an extremely limited narrow and tiny slice of each of the three country's foreign trade.

Did you forget Iran hasn't any refining capacity so it has to buy back the crude oil it exports? Because nobody including Iran wants to deal in RMB, Iran and the CCP Boyz in Beijing have resorted to bartering for oil, to include Beijing giving drilling equipment to Iran in exchange for crude.

Last year the U.S. sanctions stopped the last CCP banking holdout, the Bank of China doing any business with Iran. China Construction Bank, which is partly owned by Bank of America, was the first CCP bank to stop doing business with Iran, Bank of China was the last.

Tehran has reluctantly turned to a few big Russian banks which charge up to ten times the fees PRC banks used to levy on transactions with Iran. Being shark sharp business types, the CCP Boyz in Beijing drastically reduced their importing of Iranian oil early last year until Tehran agreed to deep discounts for the Boyz. However, the fewer Yuan Tehran can get, the fewer goods it can buy from the PRC, which is not so sharp of the Boyz..

The U.S. sanctions plus some rigorous diplomacy by Washington have resulted in a reduction in Iranian oil imports by Japan, South Korea, India and China, which together buy more than 60 percent of Iran’s crude oil exports.

India is buying oil from Russia in Rupees which leaves Russia holding a bag of a currency no one wants or will accept as everyone including China, Russia and India have to pay everyone else in USD$ for everything they transact.

The Ruble meanwhile has become a Rubble as it's lost 20% against the USD$ this year meaning Putin has to come up with $200 billion to cover the difference. Rupees and Yuan don't cut it for Putin or anyone else.

[ClutchClark]

If it was about oil...we would just take it......you quack heads out there should know the US has more oil on American soill than all the Middle East combined.

Assuming your statement is true, which I do not, you have completely failed to consider extraction costs per bbl as well as environmental degradation which results from the frac process. Please research the quantities of water necessary to frac--clean water is a finite resource.

Americans will continue to be better off purchasing oil from overseas suppliers today and for the future.

[NeverSure]

IS - US......same same.

IS summarily executes people by beheading without a trial and their only crime is being non-muslim.

Your post reveals more about you than I can possibly add here and remain within the rules.

US summarily executes people by drone attack without trial and their only crime is living in a village that may or may not have a terrorist nearby.

If you want to call it that when they use pinpoint missiles only after they have on the ground intelligence.

War is hell.

FYI, THE UK DOES THE SAME THING YOU HYPOCRITES.

The UK flies US Reaper stealth drones, controlled by remote control from London, and shoots up the place in Afghanistan. LINK

Ignorance is bliss, as they say.

[Publicus]

F430murci

I covered US debt ad naseum in another thread, what it means, how it is overstated for political games and how it is good and necessary for world economy. Citing debt as you did reveals ignorance about macroeconomist and world markets.

Lol, Russia would love some debt about now, but no one wants anything Russia offers as a result of prior default in 98 and unstable economy.

Russia is now trying to auction bonds or launch debt sale, but the rate they have to pay and risk associated wont result in the number of takers Russia needs or ability to general sales Russia needs.

Haha, carry in with your doom and gloom and reading zerohedge and breitbart if it makes you feel better about YOUR situation. Jeez, our food stamp folks are driving around in BMWs living in 2,000 sq foot properties talking on their new iPhones watching HD cable TV. And they have free health care!

Live is great here!!!

F430murci

My God do you really believe food stamp folks driving around in BMWs living in 2,000 sq. foot properties talking on their new iPhones with HD cable TV and free health care is something that can be sustained? Less than half of the US population currently has a job and the Baby Boomers are retiring at a rate of 10,000 a day. The money to do this cant keep being created out of thin air and add to our national debt forever, people actually have to be working to support these benefits. Economically this is a frightening situation, to me any way. I am fascinated to read your thread covering your perception and thoughts regarding US debt, please direct me to it.

Robert its a relief to know that at least one other person doesn't think it's good that so many in USA are living this way. Sometimes I think F430murci is having everybody on because I can't believe he would seriously condone the continuation of this very troublesome trend and see it as something to cheerlead about.

And I would also be interested to read his interpretation of the US debt which I must have missed because I haven't seen it in any other thread.

Haha, you guys lack knowledge and ability to research. I should charge for this or you should go to a business school, get an MBA or something if you really wanna know.

First, I do not like having to pay for and Cary dead weight (entitlement people), but I said it is hard for me to legitimately complain about amount of taxes I pay because I have been given opportunity to make enough to pay such a large amount of taxes.

Debt (abbreviated version)

Public debt is the important number. US public bedt is somewhere around 12.5 or about 75 % percent of GDP which is safe and acceptable ratio. 90% ratio is critical stage for developed, 70% ratio is critical stage for emerging market countries.

Our politicians and everyone with some business sense knows that public debt is the important figure, but media and politcak pundits throw around total US or national debt to rally base.

Public debt is a great means to get extra funds to invest in their economic growth. Public debt is a safe way for foreigners to invest in a country's growth by buying government bonds. This investment allows US to generate economic growth internally.

Our T bills are in demand because they are safer than other investment alternatives to countries needing returns, but safety for large cash reserves. Other countries need, are dependent upon dependent and rely upon the availability of US debt for their own economic issues. I explained this and public v, nation ad naseum in other posts.

BTW, you unemployment figures are comparable to the use of national instead of public debt to create confusion and alarm. Yep, many 16 to 18 year olds and college age children are not having to work now and are focusing on education. This is a positive families are in the position now. Older Americans who suddenly had to supplement their 2008 investment:retirement losses in 09, 10 and 11 no longer are seeking employment because their pensions are back to and above 2007 levels. This is a positive.

Things are fine and will continue to be fine.

you can't fuel an economy on debt

And here I'd thought Herbert Hoover was dead

He did pass on actually, 1963 or 1964 it was.

So now Herb speaks as a voice from the grave.

Another whack a mole.

[Publicus]

It's always so funny view the post that comment that America's appetite for oil drives it to fight in the Middle East and elsewhere. For those who are not 'in the know' The USA has now become the world's largets producer of Petroleum products in the world, first natural gas and soon crude oil, all due to 'fracking' (another story in itself). If America wanted oil so much it could have just stayed in Iraq, but it did not.

Now I'm certainly cautious about entering another conflict in the ME, most Americans are, but when factions and so called Islamic states excecute your citizens on video in crude fashion, you are going to get a 'cause and effect' result. Any other country would react the same way when their citizens have been harmed....

It's not 'brain surgery' but everyone has to lable every thing a country does for a conspiracy theory.

Yes but having enough oil to satisfy your own domestic requirements is not the same as preserving the dominance of the petrodollar. This is what Russia and other BRICS countries are seeking to knock off its perch.

The global chaos and disorder people ignore that the Brics require themselves to do business in the USD to include their new development bank that won't be in operation till another five years, if at all, or only minimally.

The RMB is monopoly game money and the world knows it, humoring the CCP Boyz in Beijing who also know it. Everyone except certain people around here know the RMB is worthless unless the CCP Boyz free float it and open China's capital markets, each of which they cannot do never mind both.

The ruble is sufficient for the Russian economy exclusively and only because Russia defaulted in the late 1990s. Moscow and Beijing can play the game board with each other and their currencies until the cows come home and nothing will change. India, a long time Moscow friend, plays along with token bilateral currency exchanges in carefully chosen and limited trade deals.

Half the populations of the Brics countries live below the poverty line and have the average life expectancy of Medieval serfs.

Europe has well developed capital markets yet it is unable to compete with the capital markets of the U.S. The Euro can only complement the USD as the global currency of trade and as the global reserve currency and in only limited ways.

The Brics don't have a common currency nor will the Brics have one. The Bricks continue to use the USD while sputtering in the use of their own individual currencies, the real, the ruble, yuan, rupee, rand.

How many RMB do you hold? How many rubles do you hold? Real? Rupee? Rand? How many do you want or plan to buy and hold? Now and in the next five years? The next ten years?

[cloudhopper]

you can't fuel an economy on debt

Actually you can, for a while. Ever since president Nixon stopped settling trade deficits with gold any country running a trade surplus with the US has chosen to buy UST in order to keep their own currency from appreciating against the USD. This has worked well as long as interest rates have declined, as they have over the last 30 years, and the debt continually refinanced. And as long as the other central banks play ball. Now real interest rates are going negative and this global bubble is beginning to deflate massively in the face of unrepayable debt, despite the eagerly adopted theories of the "modern monetarists", who will soon discover that you can print money and debt but not real wealth.

[JDGRUEN]

If it was about oil...we would just take it......you quack heads out there should know the US has more oil on American soill than all the Middle East combined.

Assuming your statement is true, which I do not, you have completely failed to consider extraction costs per bbl as well as environmental degradation which results from the frac process. Please research the quantities of water necessary to frac--clean water is a finite resource.

Americans will continue to be better off purchasing oil from overseas suppliers today and for the future.

I lived in the Texas county where 'fracking' was invented. I lived there for 13 years surrounded by 4000 gas wells, Tarrant County - Fort Worth ... next door - another 4000 wells, then two adjacent counties have a total of about 4000 more wells... Typical royalties to a land owner who owns 100% mineral rights are quite lucrative. Most people who believe that 'fracking' in limestone shale is horrible - a terrible problem are just plain wrong. Most of the negative reports that people base their beliefs on are nothing more than hype. With thousands of gas wells and many oil wells in my area the problems reported amounted to a small percentage of ground water contamination and subsidence. The reports of natural gas coming from faucets and bursting into flame were just bunk. Thousands of land owners got and still get big royalty checks each month... The majority of complaints came from non land owners - non mineral rights owners... who wanted their piece of the pie -- so exaggerations and embellishments came gushing forth so lawsuits could be filed to get money. Leftists and environmental Nazis jumped on obama's bandwagon of doing anything possible to prevent oil and gas production in the U.S. to enforce their hate America agenda... America cannot be rich while other nations are poor is their mantra... In the long run 'fracking' will save the United States by giving us energy independence. If people want to believe the hype and engage in slamming drilling in limestone shale ... then fine ... but the naysayers are just furthering a destructive leftist - environmental wacko agenda lead by obama.

Edited September 28, 2014 by JDGRUEN

[Publicus]

you can't fuel an economy on debt

Actually you can, for a while. Ever since president Nixon stopped settling trade deficits with gold any country running a trade surplus with the US has chosen to buy UST in order to keep their own currency from appreciating against the USD. This has worked well as long as interest rates have declined, as they have over the last 30 years, and the debt continually refinanced. And as long as the other central banks play ball. Now real interest rates are going negative and this global bubble is beginning to deflate massively in the face of unrepayable debt, despite the eagerly adopted theories of the "modern monetarists", who will soon discover that you can print money and debt but not real wealth.

What exactly will the "modern economists...soon discover" that will fulfill someone's prophecy that printing money and debt equals no real wealth?

It certainly is not a question of whether increasing demand or increasing supply of goods and services will resolve negative interest rates. Since 1927 interest rates in the U.S. have gone negative several times totaling some 25 years. The resolution has always been the traditional one, i.e., to either increase demand or supply of goods and services according to the specific circumstances of the decline in rates.

The traditional approaches no longer apply which is a major reason I'm asking you to ante up and say whether you recognize the fact. It's the price of money that applies to the present circumstance. It's the low cost of money. It's what Ben Bernanke has called the "global savings glut."

Which is that since 2000, China's foreign currency reserves have gone from $159 billion to $3.2 trillion, Saudi Arabia's have gone from $16 billion to $540 billion, and Russia's have gone from $9 billion to $462 billion. Meanwhile, over the same time period, China's demand for U.S. Treasuries has gone from $60 billion to more than $1.1 trillion. And when you take all of the oil-exporting nations together, their holdings of U.S. debt have gone from $48 billion to $259 billion.

In short, the principal reasons real interest rates are so low, even negative in many instances, is because of a mismatch between supply and demand for money. Goods and services have little to do with it directly.

The growing supply of funds from the emerging markets such as China and the oil-producing countries has simply overwhelmed the capacity of established bond markets. China for one has not carried its share of the solution, mostly because it cannot weigh in in the big way it needs to. Its new embryonic Dim Sum bond market last year experienced a paltry $29 billion of Dim Sum bonds traded, compared to America's $36 trillion market.

It's excess savings that are driving interest rates down, not debt, not printing money. The demand for money exits as does the supply. The solution is to do something with the piles of money these governments keep accumulating, such as investing productively in infrastructure (with China as the model of how not to do it).

[Robert2006]

F430murci

I covered US debt ad naseum in another thread, what it means, how it is overstated for political games and how it is good and necessary for world economy. Citing debt as you did reveals ignorance about macroeconomist and world markets.

Lol, Russia would love some debt about now, but no one wants anything Russia offers as a result of prior default in 98 and unstable economy.

Russia is now trying to auction bonds or launch debt sale, but the rate they have to pay and risk associated wont result in the number of takers Russia needs or ability to general sales Russia needs.

Haha, carry in with your doom and gloom and reading zerohedge and breitbart if it makes you feel better about YOUR situation. Jeez, our food stamp folks are driving around in BMWs living in 2,000 sq foot properties talking on their new iPhones watching HD cable TV. And they have free health care!

Live is great here!!!

F430murci

My God do you really believe food stamp folks driving around in BMWs living in 2,000 sq. foot properties talking on their new iPhones with HD cable TV and free health care is something that can be sustained? Less than half of the US population currently has a job and the Baby Boomers are retiring at a rate of 10,000 a day. The money to do this cant keep being created out of thin air and add to our national debt forever, people actually have to be working to support these benefits. Economically this is a frightening situation, to me any way. I am fascinated to read your thread covering your perception and thoughts regarding US debt, please direct me to it.

Robert its a relief to know that at least one other person doesn't think it's good that so many in USA are living this way. Sometimes I think F430murci is having everybody on because I can't believe he would seriously condone the continuation of this very troublesome trend and see it as something to cheerlead about.

And I would also be interested to read his interpretation of the US debt which I must have missed because I haven't seen it in any other thread.

Haha, you guys lack knowledge and ability to research. I should charge for this or you should go to a business school, get an MBA or something if you really wanna know.

First, I do not like having to pay for and Cary dead weight (entitlement people), but I said it is hard for me to legitimately complain about amount of taxes I pay because I have been given opportunity to make enough to pay such a large amount of taxes.

Debt (abbreviated version)

Public debt is the important number. US public bedt is somewhere around 12.5 or about 75 % percent of GDP which is safe and acceptable ratio. 90% ratio is critical stage for developed, 70% ratio is critical stage for emerging market countries.

Our politicians and everyone with some business sense knows that public debt is the important figure, but media and politcak pundits throw around total US or national debt to rally base.

Public debt is a great means to get extra funds to invest in their economic growth. Public debt is a safe way for foreigners to invest in a country's growth by buying government bonds. This investment allows US to generate economic growth internally.

Our T bills are in demand because they are safer than other investment alternatives to countries needing returns, but safety for large cash reserves. Other countries need, are dependent upon dependent and rely upon the availability of US debt for their own economic issues. I explained this and public v, nation ad naseum in other posts.

BTW, you unemployment figures are comparable to the use of national instead of public debt to create confusion and alarm. Yep, many 16 to 18 year olds and college age children are not having to work now and are focusing on education. This is a positive families are in the position now. Older Americans who suddenly had to supplement their 2008 investment:retirement losses in 09, 10 and 11 no longer are seeking employment because their pensions are back to and above 2007 levels. This is a positive.

Things are fine and will continue to be fine.

You have got to be kidding me, I was hoping for so much more from you, this is senseless babbling; from what University did you graduate? Are you drunk? The ability to spell I guess is not an important element in the definition of your position. These concepts are so poorly fashioned I find it difficult to fathom what you are trying to express. Go to business school? Did you get some money from Mommy and Daddy; I doubt an intellect like yours has accumulated substantial wealth through participation in the business community.

I find no benefit to continuing this dialogue.