Should I stay or leave Thailand?

[JAFO]

@OP

My take. You sound like a level headed guy asking himself some tough questions. I was 46 when I pulled the plug on working a FT Reg job in the states and started dabbling in the stock market from Thailand. My financial situation was far different then yours. With that said I decided to move back to the States to play a little bit longer at a start up company figuring I could bank some cash. I have been here for nearly 2 years. For all of its faults, the US is a cash cow and if you have some good discipline you can amass a descent savings quickly and return back to Thailand in 5-10 years. Even if you retire at 55 you are still way ahead of the game. Social Security bennies are a huge perk later and one you should not disregard.

A few have posted what I think is solid advice. Return back to the US. I would however pass on that $10hr job and move to a state that has an abundance of jobs. With you having no ties to anything in the states you can move anywhere. Currently the job market on the west coast is booming despite all the naysayers who say the US is collapsing. Do not worry about not having assets(In fact that is actually a good thing IMHO). All you need is a family member or friend who lives in the US and you have a permanent address to use. You can quickly re-establish yourself. I would start off renting a room in a house, keep it simple. Start networking.

As for your GF, That is not all that complicated either. I am not sure her asset situation in Thailand but if she has some, she can easily get a tourist Visa(PM me if you want specifics and some other info). That's the best approach IMO so she can see if she likes the US. There are many arrogant American folks who believe that "Everybody" wants to live in the US and that simply isn't true. My point is she may not like it especially if she has never traveled abroad.

Good Luck

[AnotherOneAmerican]

Cypress hill , I presume you have made your money and not living day to day. If you construct your life sensibly there is no need to wait to 65.

Clearly I'm older than you but my generation sometimes see people say 35 down as just expecting world owes them free ride. The OP is 45 and has stuff all. You suggest he gets a job in a university earning 50k baht.

Think he mentioned he was a special needs teacher. Also earned $10 in USA. Is that a typo. Teachers in AU at 45 earn about $75k au per year up. What's this blokes real story.

Australia has one of the highest wages in the world.

In the USA and uk, they pay almost nothing for unskilled work.

Would be way lucky to find any full time job at age 45, with little experience.

OP has missed the western career boat.

Better to settle for cheap @#$@y while you can still get it.

[zeichen]

"CM university pays 500bht/hour, and you're lucky to get 2hrs a day."

try 350 baht per class which are 1 hour and 15 minutes.

[AnotherOneAmerican]

"CM university pays 500bht/hour, and you're lucky to get 2hrs a day."

try 350 baht per class which are 1 hour and 15 minutes.

Maybe it's less for people with no degree?

My pal gets 500bht/hr.

[Cypress Hill]

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Cypress hill , I presume you have made your money and not living day to day. If you construct your life sensibly there is no need to wait to 65.
Clearly I'm older than you but my generation sometimes see people say 35 down as just expecting world owes them free ride. The OP is 45 and has stuff all. You suggest he gets a job in a university earning 50k baht.
Think he mentioned he was a special needs teacher. Also earned $10 in USA. Is that a typo. Teachers in AU at 45 earn about $75k au per year up. What's this blokes real story.

I don't see myself "retiring" so the whole pension and SS thing is academic as far as I'm concerned. Retiring to spend the rest of one's days at leisure seems wasteful to me and likely to bring forward one's appointment with the reaper.

I might think differently if I'd had a lifetime of manual labour and 6am starts behind me but I haven't so see no real reason to plan in that way.

Of course, I'm insured to the hilt here and have ample coin that could sustain me for several years if the SHTF but that should be mandatory for everybody, right?

The OP hasn't constructed his life sensibly as you put it but he could get himself a higher-paying job here if he pulled his finger out and maybe start contributing to a pension of some kind.

[smotherb]

Social Security benefits are calculated on the amount you paid in for the last 20 years before you turn 65. You'll lose all SS if you don't work in the US.

Teachers get a good retirement also and there are places that need real teachers in the US. It pays pretty well.

You will get old and you will need retirement income or massive savings. You'll need to maintain an address in the US to be eligible for Medicare at 65. If nothing else, google for an address in S. Dakota. It's the only state that actively seeks expats and snowbirds as residents and it's legal.

Social Security is based on 35 years of contributions and you can get medicare after 65 or with certain disabilities earlier, but only in the States

[benj005]

Again the issue that the OP is facing is that his special ed degree is not wanted in Asia. International schools aren't going to hire him to teach subjects because he is not a subject teacher. If he has taken the praxis 1 and 2 tests and gets certified for subjects like science or math, then he could actually make a decent wage. With what he has now, he is only qualified for TEFL positions.

The other issue of going home isn't so hopeful either. Working less than 30 hours a week for 10 bucks an hour is rubbish for anyone with a degree. The hope of getting hired full time is a lure that rarely pans out. His pipe dream of this materializing to a 50k USD a year salary teaching is less than likely. Starting salary is more like 45kUSD a year for your qualifications. But with the cost of living, taxes,etc. I doubt that would save more than 10k a year. Less if you have a car and a life. TEFL jobs in Korea, and lower tiered international school jobs in China you could save double that.

To teach in the US you will also need to further your education to keep your license current. No chance for admin jobs without a Masters or more likely a PhD by the time you have the proper experience.

Your Korean teaching experience doesn't count towards anything and in most cases will likely hurt a teaching career if done too long.

With that being said. I still think that you best immediate option is to go back to Korea and work at a Hagwon or teach at a low tiered International school in China and save everything. If you save at least 20K usd a year for 2 years, then go back to the US get a Masters in something that is more coveted for International school jobs in Asia. You then in a short 4-5 years could actually be earning a decent wage here or anywhere and still live the lifestyle you want.

You could take the low paid 35k baht a month job and hope to get a lower tiered international school job here making 50-60k baht a month but unless you partner is pulling her weight that will be tough.

Still think it is strange for someone in their 40's to 1 need career and relationship advice from yahoos on TV. 2nd not have anything in equity up to this point, and 3. Make life changing choices for a girl friend you haven't been with that long.

I do wish you the best of luck but you sound like a dreamer without any practical skills.

I was in South Korea for 2 years, and I was able to save up a bit of money. The problem with Korea is the age barrier. You're really at disadvantage if you're over 40. I was actually thinking about going back, but I've been ignored by the recruiters that I've contacted.

I have passed the Praxis content knowledge which makes me a dual certified teacher for grades k-6. I just need to pass the math praxis and I expect to take the test sometime this year.

The $10 an hour aide position is only temporary. I don't plan to make it a career. Also, I have a few friends that have moved on from classroom aides to full time teachers. Sometimes you need to start at the beginning to reach your goal.

There are one or two special needs schools in Bangkok. They are out there. You just need to be proactive. They do hire between 50-60k baht a month.

Finally, there are positions in special ed. A lot of positions. High needs areas such as Camden, Newark, and Trenton are hiring all the time. The catch is those cities are very poor. If I wanted I could get 15% if my student loan shaved off if taught in a high needs area for 5 years.

PS... The teaching you do in Korea will count for something. Principals look favorably at a candidate that was able to live in a foreign country. It speaks a lot about the person's character. I know plenty of people that have become full time teachers when they came back from Korea.

Edited September 29, 2014 by benj005

[The Deerhunter]

Personally I do not think your situation is tenable long term for money reasons if you stay here. And you risk losing your retirement & health benefits if you don't go back stateside. (Not sure about the Sth Dakota idea.) Tough situation but the best advice I saw from posters was to go back & get financially secure first. But will she wait? Is she the long term waiting kind? Good luck friend & hope it turns out well for you.

[visionchaser45]

$10.00 per hour in Jersey is very little. As for this "...he should bring her over on a K-1 fiancee visa, which will not be difficult for him to obtain despite his belief..." you would have to file an affidavit of support with your application and I doubt this level of income would be deemed sufficient to support two. 35,000.00 baht goes way farther in LOS than $10.00 per hour would in Jersey. If you're going to go back, then wait for a better job offer.

[geronimo]

Follow my gut feeling.

[JAFO]

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Cypress hill , I presume you have made your money and not living day to day. If you construct your life sensibly there is no need to wait to 65.

Clearly I'm older than you but my generation sometimes see people say 35 down as just expecting world owes them free ride. The OP is 45 and has stuff all. You suggest he gets a job in a university earning 50k baht.

Think he mentioned he was a special needs teacher. Also earned $10 in USA. Is that a typo. Teachers in AU at 45 earn about $75k au per year up. What's this blokes real story.

I don't see myself "retiring" so the whole pension and SS thing is academic as far as I'm concerned. Retiring to spend the rest of one's days at leisure seems wasteful to me and likely to bring forward one's appointment with the reaper.

I might think differently if I'd had a lifetime of manual labour and 6am starts behind me but I haven't so see no real reason to plan in that way.

Of course, I'm insured to the hilt here and have ample coin that could sustain me for several years if the SHTF but that should be mandatory for everybody, right?

The OP hasn't constructed his life sensibly as you put it but he could get himself a higher-paying job here if he pulled his finger out and maybe start contributing to a pension of some kind.

The word "Retiring" is such a poorly used word with so many varying definitions left to interpretations IMHO. In the end when you have achieved a level of financial security you get to go off and do what you want on your terms. The key words in there are "On your terms". You can travel, you can volunteer, go fish, garden, teach part time, write a book, work on cars, etc. Whatever you choose, you do not have to be on the "Hamster Wheel" any longer. However as Cypress Hill stated and I agree with wholeheartedly, you do need a purpose or your life will wither away. I am enjoying my return to the US to work, Why? Because I do not have too. I can walk away today and that is an awesome feeling. I was glad to bring my GF (now wife) here to see it first hand. She can't wait to leave.

[myluckythai]

Sounds to me like the money you make back home is worth less than the money you make here. The garantees for the future back home seem worth the same as here. Nothing. If you and your girlfriend would make a serious commitment you will be able to raise some funding here and start something to raise a litlle more cash.

I am not in your shoes and god it sounds like a hard choice, but going back to uncertainty and lonelyness and leaving happiness sounds wrong. You only live once and getting older won't help you find a new love of your life, assuming she is that. I prefer happiness and won't need a lot here to survive.

rather than working a crappy job and living in a crappy apartment and dreaming about what would've been if....

[BradinAsia]

Actually "Thailand" is still a 3rd World Country, and there is still a lot of Thais. Love in Mud Huts...

If I was you I would go back Home, 45 years old is not that old, who knows what opportunities await you there, here there is very little, like fellow posters quote, Thailand is great of you have an income from back home, but to,try and make a decent living here, for now and the future, is not so easy..

Go home I say.....

Just my two cents worth.....

I agree with the OP that Thailand is not really a third world country. A lot of folks on TV who like

to view Thailand as negatively as possible often refer to Thailand as a third world country.

I lived and worked 16 years in Japan. It is definitely not a third world country. Today, Thailand

is much more similar to Japan than to Burma, Laos, Cambodia, Vietnam or the Philippines.

I lived 6 yrs in the Philippines, where in the provinces only national highways are paved and most

provincial capitals have bamboo hut squatter areas on the main street downtown. Also, most third

world countries have lots beggars bcoz they have nothing else to do. Thailand has fewer beggars

and most are destitute single mothers or the physically handicapped.

In 1960, Thailand was third world. Today, it's much closer to Japan than to Philippines, for example.

The OP has a tough decision to make. His desire to stay here is surely understandable. Thailand is

a fabulous place to live, has a rapidly developing infrastructure and a growing economy, but I think

it's very difficult to envision any future here with no hope of a pension at some point down the road.

Thailand closer to Japan than Philippines. No, it's not.

I respect the fact that you have lived in both countries, however, comparing a village of Japan to some village in Isaan. It's not even close.

Maybe your talking about miles/km distance... LOL

If you have lived in as many different provinces in the Philippines as I have

you'd never suggest that Philippines is closer to Japan than Thailand.

Even if you talk about Isaan -- I've been in every province in Isaan and there

are beautiful roads in every province. In the Philippines, outside of Manila are

very few nice roads. Also, the standard of living in Isaan has improved a lot in

the last 10-15 years.

Philippines today has changed little since I first went there in 1962.

"Tokyo vs Bangkok is perhaps getting slightly closer, but please. It's not even close."

I'd be willing to bet that I've seen a lot more of Tokyo than you have, during 16 years.

[louse1953]

my post is going to sound harsh as well

45 with no appreciable assets, no slush fund or fall back position

staying with a GF who may or may not stay with you for the duration

relying on work prospects over the long term in Thailand which are tenuous best in the sense, of the "hire and fire" way things are done in schools here, which may be ok in some sense if a person is decently compensated, which at the salary levels you are talking about it's not decently compensated.

As careers go, this is the time generally in a persons life where their maximum earning capacity is being realized, ie this is as good as its going to get and you need to be maximizing that capacity

if you are considering staying in Thailand for the long term at the behest of your GF, you may as well start paying your subscription to the Pattaya balcony divers club , as if your not careful thats were it could end up, honestly I think your using the wrong head to think this through.

Not trying to p*ss on your parade, but you serious need to do some hard thinking as regards what your about to embark on.

I appreciate the kick in the ass. I know the mess I've gotten myself into. Who knows. Maybe the US government will take care of people like me. There are a lot of us in America who don't have retirement due to the recession. I believe its a third of the population. A lot of people.

I hope your joking,never rely on a government helping you in the future.In fact it will be the reverse when the baby boomers kick in.It's all up to you mate,this will be a life changing decision..I made the right one 20 years ago,went home got a job and morgage and had long holidays here.Now i am retired early,living on rentals and loving it.I didn't want to work when i was old so plenty of OT the last 20 years.Mates who stayed and had a good life for a while are now on the bones of their arse and wishing they did things different.You only get one shot at it at your age.You can bring gf out if you want,but you have to get settled 1st.

[SpokaneAl]

Money doesn't provide all the answers but it sure makes things a bit easier and gives one options in life. You are 45 with very few assets. If you doesn't start saving, investing and packing it away, you are going to reach retirement age with peanuts to live on and very few choices. At 45 your so-called golden years are looming in front of you very, very quickly. The question is what are you going to do about it.

If I were in your current position in life I would be working, planning and saving like a crazy man. Social Security is a safety net (assuming to work long enough and pay into it to qualify) but, IMO, it isn't a retirement plan.

Good luck.

[SpokaneAl]

\<script type='text/javascript'>window.mod_pagespeed_start = Number(new Date());</script>

Cypress hill , I presume you have made your money and not living day to day. If you construct your life sensibly there is no need to wait to 65.

Clearly I'm older than you but my generation sometimes see people say 35 down as just expecting world owes them free ride. The OP is 45 and has stuff all. You suggest he gets a job in a university earning 50k baht.

Think he mentioned he was a special needs teacher. Also earned $10 in USA. Is that a typo. Teachers in AU at 45 earn about $75k au per year up. What's this blokes real story.

I don't see myself "retiring" so the whole pension and SS thing is academic as far as I'm concerned. Retiring to spend the rest of one's days at leisure seems wasteful to me and likely to bring forward one's appointment with the reaper.

I might think differently if I'd had a lifetime of manual labour and 6am starts behind me but I haven't so see no real reason to plan in that way.

Of course, I'm insured to the hilt here and have ample coin that could sustain me for several years if the SHTF but that should be mandatory for everybody, right?

The OP hasn't constructed his life sensibly as you put it but he could get himself a higher-paying job here if he pulled his finger out and maybe start contributing to a pension of some kind.

The word "Retiring" is such a poorly used word with so many varying definitions left to interpretations IMHO. In the end when you have achieved a level of financial security you get to go off and do what you want on your terms. The key words in there are "On your terms". You can travel, you can volunteer, go fish, garden, teach part time, write a book, work on cars, etc. Whatever you choose, you do not have to be on the "Hamster Wheel" any longer. However as Cypress Hill stated and I agree with wholeheartedly, you do need a purpose or your life will wither away. I am enjoying my return to the US to work, Why? Because I do not have too. I can walk away today and that is an awesome feeling. I was glad to bring my GF (now wife) here to see it first hand. She can't wait to leave.

People often talk about not retiring and just continuing to work. That may or may not be possible. Physical and/or mental issues often enter the picture and way lay the best made plans. Diligent savings and investments give us the ability to make alternative choices. And in those situations if you are not in a position to make alternative choices you are in trouble.

[Patron]

Tell her to sod off, and go home ! Why at 45 do you need a stupid Thai bird. Go and get a nice American one instead.

You can get 2 Thai girls for one American girl.

1 American girl= 200lbs

2 Thai girls= 200lbs

LOL Once you go Asian...You can never go Caucasian.

[herb59]

yes Thai girls are like spiders. once in their net, no escape. take it easy. also another girl will love you in the future....

[mesquite]

OP, I would look at places other than the US. If you work outside the US, you can exclude something like up to 100k USD from your income when paying income tax. If you work in the US, you will be paying more income tax.

I have several friends in their early sixties in the US who can't afford to retire, even though they were successful and highly educated. Of course this is in part due to their American wives.

Regarding your gf, your feelings toward her will probably change over time. I know mine did. Don't be in a hurry to marry her.

[AYJAYDEE]

If you have a degree in education and cant do better than 10 dollars an hour at 45 years old, you have already messed up your financial future.

Edited September 29, 2014 by AYJAYDEE

[Jbax]

If you're 45, and have zero assets I'd return to the states. You need 40 quarters to qualify for SSI (which, even starting from scratch, you can attain by age 56). Staying in Thailand will be increasingly financially problematic the older you get without an income--- you'll have difficulty transitioning to a so-called non-O "retirement visa" after age 50 without either adequate assets or demonstrable income, and Thailand (like everywhere) will only get more expensive.

Staying in Thailand means working until you fold like a lawn chair. Consider going back and working for 10-15 years, live frugally and max out an IRA. Thailand works best for farangs when you have an outside income.

You might explore a federal job, posting your resume on www.usajobs.gov (free) and peruse the site to see what higher paying jobs are open to you given your education (you might be surprised, especially if you look a little beyond teaching).

I realize this doesn't address the girlfriend issue. But really, you're 45 and on the clock.

Best to you... Jack

[happydude303]

Just a though but why don't you look for a better job, stay a while on the money your on but then in the mean time go hunting out a better paid job, seen as you have the degree which i assume is a BA or higher you should be able to go for the better jobs as the 35 mark is for non degree people what ever you , your the only one who cam make the choice

[Grindting]

At 45 with no assets, pension or portfolio of investments, I would be absolutely petrified.

I can't say anything more on the topic re advice as everyone else already has it covered. But to put it into perspective, Not trying to blow my own horn but I've just turned 30 and own my own apartment in london which I saved to put down a deposit for the last 4 years working my a-o

I calculated what kind of lifestyle I want when I retire, which at the current value of the £ would be around £3500 Net per month. To get there in addition to my house I'd need to have 3 apartments which I can let at around £1200, plus a decent pension which I'll start putting into now (excl state pension)

I don't want us to spend our holiday time in the holiday in express, I want to be in the four seasons! I don't want to sipping on black label, I want to be sipping on 25 year macallan! And this turning of 30 has made me realise what I have to do now to ensure we have the quality of life I want.

Age 45 is only 15 years away from where I am now, but by that time id like to have got somewhere like a 3rd of the way there!

Edited September 29, 2014 by Grindting

[uptheos]

Obviously you have not heard about all the horror stories presently going on in North American, formerly the USA.

If you were informed, you wouldn't think about returning.

Even main stream news is confirming all your personal sovereignty and country sovereignty is gone with Presidential orders.

Would you feel safe in a country with no constitutional rights and open borders?

Would you feel safe in a country that imports Ebola patients (for the first time in history) and everyone now confirms it is mutating and can be air born? Not to mention other suspicious, mutating viruses appearing. This is also in main stream news.

Currently main stream news even admits the new Presidential orders allow for you to be detained for even cold symptoms with no time limit!

Whistle blowers are scared and coming out of the wood work, including homeland security, top Police Chiefs and Army Generals and confirming all the facts now.

Competent trends forecasters, including an ex US Secretary of the Treasury, who have provided financial and political information to all of the top fortune 500 companies are forecasting the dollar to devaluate or even collapse at the end of 2014 or the beginning of 2015, along with major sell offs of the bond and stock market.

Even if you get a new job, how long will it last in a crisis and collapse?

Your reading the wrong books!

Remarkable.

I'd take my chance in a country that is 9,826, 675 square kilometres

[poweratradio]

Not a troll post the OP states but it certainly is a repeat of a previous one in the last month almost word for word.

[SpokaneAl]

Obviously you have not heard about all the horror stories presently going on in North American, formerly the USA.

If you were informed, you wouldn't think about returning.

Even main stream news is confirming all your personal sovereignty and country sovereignty is gone with Presidential orders.

Would you feel safe in a country with no constitutional rights and open borders?

Would you feel safe in a country that imports Ebola patients (for the first time in history) and everyone now confirms it is mutating and can be air born? Not to mention other suspicious, mutating viruses appearing. This is also in main stream news.

Currently main stream news even admits the new Presidential orders allow for you to be detained for even cold symptoms with no time limit!

Whistle blowers are scared and coming out of the wood work, including homeland security, top Police Chiefs and Army Generals and confirming all the facts now.

Competent trends forecasters, including an ex US Secretary of the Treasury, who have provided financial and political information to all of the top fortune 500 companies are forecasting the dollar to devaluate or even collapse at the end of 2014 or the beginning of 2015, along with major sell offs of the bond and stock market.

Even if you get a new job, how long will it last in a crisis and collapse?

Your reading the wrong books!

Remarkable.

I'd take my chance in a country that is 9,826, 675 square kilometres

You must be referring to a different country than the one I live in. It sounds like you are making conclusions based on sound bytes and whacko headlines.

Yes, your perspective is remarkable.

Edited September 29, 2014 by SpokaneAl

[Dadee]

For starters, if you worry about social security, go their website, log on and see exactly what you earned. The estimates are right there and if you have not had any US taxable income in last tax year, then your estimate on the website of what your social security will be at the retirement will be accurate. The website assumes that you will earn for the rest of your work life what you earned in last taxable year, so the number you see will be your bottom line and if you stay for the rest of your life in Thailand this is what it's gonna be. That should eliminate some of the speculation and uncertainty in your decision making process.

Next, if you are a qualified teacher (sounds like you are but I am not sure). Try to find a real teaching job with one of the international schools. They pay a lot more than what your earn now, often at par or more than what a teaching job pays in US. There is an international teacher's job fair for teachers in Bangkok once a year (possibly in April if I recall it right), there is also one in SF and a few other places. Just google for Search Associates. They run the job fairs and act as head hunters for international schools. There is a few other head hunters in that area and some light googling should help you find them.

Secondly, check substitiute teacher jobs with intl schools in the meantime. They often pay as much as $100 per day to supplement your current teaching job if that is possible. I know of people that make a pretty good living off substitute teaching. These substitute jobs can also get your foot in the door for a full-time job later.

I think even without a girlfriend, you might be able to make a better living in Thailand than you would back home. Just figure out that you would need a place to stay in NJ probably around $600-800 per month, you will need a car, a car insurance $500, health insurance, an internet $50 per month, food $250 per week, water bill $50, heat/ac/electric $100-200..., mobile phone $50-80 per month.. Even if you find a job that pays double what you can count on back in NJ, you just can't make a living alone, forget the gf... If you do you math, US is not even an option unless you can line up a real job. The $10/h is the min wage rate and you can't possibly make a dignified living on that or any living for that matter.

Even if you need to up your skills to be fully qualified teacher to line up one of these real intl school teaching jobs that pay $50k and up per month, you can do it online....

Good Luck!

Edited September 29, 2014 by Dadee

[Greg Nixon]

I would never be in your shoes. They likely wouldn't fit.

Why did you come to Thailand ? If it was for adventure - you have had it.

Did you come here for sex ? Yo have had it.

Did you come here for love ? You found it.

What were your original intentions? Dig deep and good luck.

[3NUMBAS]

i know a few in the US with good jobs who thought they were well placed for retirement but got a shock when they cant sell the McMansion when the kids left home ,these palaces have been on the market for years with few looking at them ,so looks like theyre stuck with them into retirement ..

[bermondburi]

Saudi is a license to print money. My 2 cents. My third year here since leaving Los. No looking back. Bought more land in the holiday. Just bought a car cash. Should be buying a detached house in BKK burbs cash in 2 years. You re a fool to teach in Thailand.