Immigration raid targets Digital Nomads in Chiang Mai

[Puwa]

I'll summarize. A group of young, active, creative people trying to make their way in the world ran into a small hiccup with immigration. It might have gone badly, but turned out fine and now they are all back doing what they do.

Meanwhile, a group of older, bitter, probably envious, and generally grouchy people who were not involved in any way, shape or form in the incident take up their favorite pastime of speculating, judging, and condemning. First they aim at the people in the story and then, inevitably, they turn on one another. I know there are lots of cool older foreigners in Thailand, probably even on TV, who don't fit this type.

At 45, I'm neither a young entrepreneur nor a sour retiree. I hope that as I get older I continue to favor optimism, creativity, and youth rather than, well, the opposing camp, whatever you call it.

[jspill]

A co-working space is just a glorified coffee shop or internet cafe with a fancy name. They are designed for people to check emails or do a little work whilst abroad.

Many people in them would literally be tourists just passing through.

And without twenty Thai kids playing World of Warcraft screaming and shouting.

[maisodni]

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They need armed police to check passports?

Absolutely, you don't know what kind of desperate reaction might occur in a raid

The wording of the article was contrived to be sensational. The more appropriate wording would probably have been: "Police in normal uniform inspected a co-working location today, without first disarming ....."

[JLCrab]

A co-working space is just a glorified coffee shop or internet cafe with a fancy name. They are designed for people to check emails or do a little work whilst abroad.

Many people in them would literally be tourists just passing through.

And without twenty Thai kids playing World of Warcraft screaming and shouting.

Not Oxford; Harvard. I have twice been in internet shops where police showed up and later put a padlock on the door because it was before 2 pm on a school day and school kids were inside playing games. They just told me I had to leave.

Edited October 2, 2014 by JLCrab

[smurph]

Pretty decent report on it here... http://asiancorrespondent.com/127125/thailand-immigration-officials-raid-chiang-mai-co-working-space/

[DrTuner]

And now that the story is floated here and read by the immigration HQ in BKK, the countdown for crackdown begins.

[thairastawoman]

How stupid these people must be to go to a place that tells immigration "come here and find dozen or illegal workers"...

Work from home or your hotel, retarded !

Charming advice...

Better still, go to luxuriant Ubud in Bali, or Cambodia. The Philippines has some totally exotic locations - cheap too. Sri Lanka is studded with some spectacular locations. And you won't have to look over your shoulder or lock yourself up in your hotel room to write emails.

You'd think that authorities would be delighted that people have actually found a reason to stay in Chaing Mai. Let's be realistic, it has its charms, but its not exactly exotic or interesting.

I am so sure that these places are better, this is why everybody wants to stay as long as possible in Thailand...

[Christie Paul]

How stupid these people must be to go to a place that tells immigration "come here and find dozen or illegal workers"...

Work from home or your hotel, retarded !

Charming advice...

Better still, go to luxuriant Ubud in Bali, or Cambodia. The Philippines has some totally exotic locations - cheap too. Sri Lanka is studded with some spectacular locations. And you won't have to look over your shoulder or lock yourself up in your hotel room to write emails.

You'd think that authorities would be delighted that people have actually found a reason to stay in Chaing Mai. Let's be realistic, it has its charms, but its not exactly exotic or interesting.

I am so sure that these places are better, this is why everybody wants to stay as long as possible in Thailand...

That would be certainly true ten years ago. Thailand was "it". But its just not the case anymore.

[marcusd]

In reading the full blog posting, it seems that everyone who could produce a passport with a valid visa or current visa-exempt status was left alone. And perhaps a misunderstanding that the people were working (employed by) PunSpace.

So, I wonder if it's really an exercise in harassing digital nomads, or just an opportunity to check visa status for a group of foreigners who are congregated together. I wonder what's next? Will they storm the next Expats Ladies Lunch and ask to see that we all have our passports with valid retirement visas?

I now carry my passport with me at all times. Yeah, I know it's a hassle. I put it in a plastic bag and hopefully it won't get stolen or trashed out.

This is the latest incident in the long running controversy regarding the question: do foreigners have to carry their passports with them at all times?

It would be nice to know whether or not a law exists that says so.

. NancyL... They said passport or valid identification

[hml367]

In reading the full blog posting, it seems that everyone who could produce a passport with a valid visa or current visa-exempt status was left alone. And perhaps a misunderstanding that the people were working (employed by) PunSpace.

So, I wonder if it's really an exercise in harassing digital nomads, or just an opportunity to check visa status for a group of foreigners who are congregated together. I wonder what's next? Will they storm the next Expats Ladies Lunch and ask to see that we all have our passports with valid retirement visas?

I now carry my passport with me at all times. Yeah, I know it's a hassle. I put it in a plastic bag and hopefully it won't get stolen or trashed out.

This is the latest incident in the long running controversy regarding the question: do foreigners have to carry their passports with them at all times?

It would be nice to know whether or not a law exists that says so.

. NancyL... They said passport or valid identification

This is how misinformation becomes set in stone for some people reading or hearing about it for the first time - and possibly some not reading for the first time.

Like having the passport number on the back of a Thai driving license... Means absolutely nothing if an official wants to see a passport.

Again, as I posted earlier, I think many people do not understand the differences of passport, visa, driving license, and personal identification.

Edited October 2, 2014 by hml367

[SoiBiker]

How stupid these people must be to go to a place that tells immigration "come here and find dozen or illegal workers"...

Work from home or your hotel, retarded !

Charming advice...

Better still, go to luxuriant Ubud in Bali, or Cambodia. The Philippines has some totally exotic locations - cheap too. Sri Lanka is studded with some spectacular locations. And you won't have to look over your shoulder or lock yourself up in your hotel room to write emails.

You'd think that authorities would be delighted that people have actually found a reason to stay in Chaing Mai. Let's be realistic, it has its charms, but its not exactly exotic or interesting.

I am so sure that these places are better, this is why everybody wants to stay as long as possible in Thailand...

That would be certainly true ten years ago. Thailand was "it". But its just not the case anymore.

Plenty of people seem to still like it here. Maybe it's you that changed?

[carlpipe]

So its ok that you claim benefits when you disagree paying tax that funds exact benefit you want?

Eactly, now you see how wrong the whole system is.

There are a few coampies that insure you if you do not have a perm residence. World Nomads being one of the few. Something people living in Thailand on a TV should consider imo

Harry you are not beating, fighting, avoiding or exploiting "the system" by doing this... what you are doing is taking advantage of your neighbours

[carlpipe]

Enjoy it while you can.... be kind to people while you're at it

P.S. We don't get to choose what our taxes our spent on - nobody should be exempt from this, legal or not - its a community responsibility plus its a complete cop out to refer to wars etc

I don't belive in taxes, thus I don't pay them. If my own country wants remove my citizenship, I would not care. Just because something is written down on a piece of paper doesnt mean I SHOULD do it. I do what I think is just and right, and will follow the path it takes me. But we are going a bit off topic, so feel free to continue this in PM. Otherwise I will try to keep it more on topic to the news thread. *thumbs up*

This is a public discussion where you have openly stated you don't believe in contributing your fair share to the community, which effectively means you are taking advantage of me and the rest of us, not some faceless government

[carlpipe]

I bet this came to you as a surprise - who reads fine print anyways... In insurance company's view you have to be permanent resident of a country, or you are in fact not insured under their travel insurance...

You will find this clause or something similar in every insurance company policy..

There is nothing greedier on this planet than insurance company (they are worse than any government!) and they sure know how to cover their a** and to get you to pay the bill, plus they have an army of lawyers! This clause is just one of them, never take policy without reading and re-reading the fine print.

Not so much, I have a degree in Economics so know how the world works, but still a good find for other digital nomads looking to get insured.

A degree in economics doesn't grant you with the knowledge of how the world works.

Apparently you missed the part where to take from a community you must also contribute (and don't give me some rubbish about how much spend as Tourist or with VAT)

Edited October 2, 2014 by carlpipe

[jspill]

Enjoy it while you can.... be kind to people while you're at it

P.S. We don't get to choose what our taxes our spent on - nobody should be exempt from this, legal or not - its a community responsibility plus its a complete cop out to refer to wars etc

I don't belive in taxes, thus I don't pay them. If my own country wants remove my citizenship, I would not care. Just because something is written down on a piece of paper doesnt mean I SHOULD do it. I do what I think is just and right, and will follow the path it takes me. But we are going a bit off topic, so feel free to continue this in PM. Otherwise I will try to keep it more on topic to the news thread. *thumbs up*

This is a public discussion where you have openly stated you don't believe in contributing your fair share to the community, which effectively means you are taking advantage of me and the rest of us, not some faceless government

Ron Paul, Marx, many others publicly doesn't believe in income taxes either. http://www.ronpaul.com/on-the-issues/taxes/

Anyway as Harry posted he previously payed taxes, so if he paid X, later claims Y in benefits and Y < X he isn't taking advantage even by your definitions.

[jspill]

Plenty of people seem to still like it here. Maybe it's you that changed?

After living here 10 years it becomes mandatory to refer to 'the good old days' or how 'Thailand used to better', it's the law.

[rwdrwdrwd]

And now that the story is floated here and read by the immigration HQ in BKK, the countdown for crackdown begins.

We'll see. If it doesn't, it's pretty much a green light for digital nomads, however much that might get up some people's noses.

Edited October 2, 2014 by rwdrwdrwd

[dave2]

re

This is how misinformation becomes set in stone for some people reading or hearing about it for the first time - and possibly some not reading for the first time.

Like having the passport number on the back of a Thai driving license

ahhhh misinformation

the back of a 5 year thai driving licence has your address on it

your passport number is on the front !

dave2

[Harry198]

A degree in economics doesn't grant you with the knowledge of how the world works.

Apparently you missed the part where to take from a community you must also contribute (and don't give me some rubbish about how much spend as Tourist or with VAT)

I do contribute. I have made books and sites that encourage people to travel to Thailand. I am bringing business into this country. Maybe instead of wasting time arguing about how I or other should live our lives, perhaps your time could be better spent buying an expired domain and creating your own start up? Just an idea!

Feel free to pm me, I invest in start ups too!

Edited October 2, 2014 by Harry198

[Christie Paul]

Enjoy it while you can.... be kind to people while you're at it

P.S. We don't get to choose what our taxes our spent on - nobody should be exempt from this, legal or not - its a community responsibility plus its a complete cop out to refer to wars etc

I don't belive in taxes, thus I don't pay them. If my own country wants remove my citizenship, I would not care. Just because something is written down on a piece of paper doesnt mean I SHOULD do it. I do what I think is just and right, and will follow the path it takes me. But we are going a bit off topic, so feel free to continue this in PM. Otherwise I will try to keep it more on topic to the news thread. *thumbs up*

This is a public discussion where you have openly stated you don't believe in contributing your fair share to the community, which effectively means you are taking advantage of me and the rest of us, not some faceless government

Corporations don't pay tax. The higher ups don't pay tax. It's the workers who are literally funding the construction of a giant prison in which they live. And they are very grateful for it too, along with the opportunity to go to other people's countries and steal for their masters. Do the math.

[Christie Paul]

A degree in economics doesn't grant you with the knowledge of how the world works.

Apparently you missed the part where to take from a community you must also contribute (and don't give me some rubbish about how much spend as Tourist or with VAT)

I do contribute. I have made books and sites that encourage people to travel to Thailand. I am bringing business into this country. Maybe instead of wasting time arguing about how I or other should live our lives, perhaps your time could be better spent buying an expired domain and creating your own start up? Just an idea!

Feel free to pm me, I invest in start ups too!

Oh...VAT doesn't count as contributing. And why's that because we are forced to pay it perhaps? What a person spends whether earned or brought in adds to money velocity in which money serves the needs of the people. Giving to the community...the real wealth of the entire planet is held in the hands of a tiny fraction of its inhabitants. The same ones who own the planation from whence you came I'd wager.

[Harry198]

A degree in economics doesn't grant you with the knowledge of how the world works.

Apparently you missed the part where to take from a community you must also contribute (and don't give me some rubbish about how much spend as Tourist or with VAT)

I do contribute. I have made books and sites that encourage people to travel to Thailand. I am bringing business into this country. Maybe instead of wasting time arguing about how I or other should live our lives, perhaps your time could be better spent buying an expired domain and creating your own start up? Just an idea!

Feel free to pm me, I invest in start ups too!

Oh...VAT doesn't count as contributing. And why's that because we are forced to pay it perhaps? What a person spends whether earned or brought in adds to money velocity in which money serves the needs of the people. Giving to the community...the real wealth of the entire planet is held in the hands of a tiny fraction of its inhabitants. The same ones who own the planation from whence you came I'd wager.

I see humans (myself included) as a cancer on this earth, everything we touch turns to crap. Water polluted, food is all GMO, drones, deaths, numerous waters fall of oil. We are like a virus and our goal is to destroy the earth. We bring more harm than good. I will not contribute to the system and that's just me, I don't care what you think. I am all for helping others and being nice and helping my fellow man on the street, but when it comes to the system, no thanks jeff. We are the new generation, this is how we do things now.

[SoiBiker]

I see humans (myself included) as a cancer on this earth, everything we touch turns to crap. Water polluted, food is all GMO, drones, deaths, numerous waters fall of oil. We are like a virus and our goal is to destroy the earth. We bring more harm than good. I will not contribute to the system and that's just me, I don't care what you think. I am all for helping others and being nice and helping my fellow man on the street, but when it comes to the system, no thanks jeff. We are the new generation, this is how we do things now.

No offence, but you sound hilariously teenage when you come out with stuff like this. I guess you'll probably grow up and come to understand the world a little better sooner or later.

[Loles]

pitiable - laughable - amateur

[jabis]

Many posters here mention that there is not an easy visa for 'digital nomads' but they are not well informed! everyone who works online and generates over 70% of their turnover outside Thailand can apply for a BOI visa which needs an 'opening amount' of 700k baht and is valid for 3 years! So it is not that bad as many open fire on the Thai government! only people have to inform themselves correct and of course what they want to avoid, which is an international economic agreement that people can work with paying 0% tax! The tax rates in Thailand are very fair and not many countries can compete with that including all the beautiful infrastructure and services that Thailand has to offer. So it is not all that bad as many posters complain here.

Could you point out a source for this? Only BOI-Visa related material I found was, that for "experts" and "managers" for BOI-type visa you'd need to steer a company with either registered or working capital of 30MBaht to apply?

[Jerrie Pelser]

Could you point out a source for this? Only BOI-Visa related material I found was, that for "experts" and "managers" for BOI-type visa you'd need to steer a company with either registered or working capital of 30MBaht to apply?

Have a look at this page for more information:

http://siamstartup.com/boi-company-thailand/

I cannot testify to the accuracy of their information though...

[jabis]

Could you point out a source for this? Only BOI-Visa related material I found was, that for "experts" and "managers" for BOI-type visa you'd need to steer a company with either registered or working capital of 30MBaht to apply?

Have a look at this page for more information:

http://siamstartup.com/boi-company-thailand/

I cannot testify to the accuracy of their information though...

Yup, thought I'd land there.

For a foreigner, without a Thai wife that is, one would still need the 2MBaht minimun registered capital to be eligible for a work permit, eventhough the requirement states that 25% of the registered capital (700kBaht + administrative costs) is needed up front. Without the work permit that really wouldn't be feasible as you'd still need to tie a lot of money for it. For BOI application, the minimun capital on top of prior, is 1MBaht. Can't see that as an "easy visa" if you don't want to put 3-6 months into applying for the BOI status.

[CMHomeboy78]

By all accounts this seems to be a raid that failed its objective due to bad intelligence prior to the strike.

No one was found to be illegally employed or on overstay, and all were released within hours.

What could have been a photo-op for police brass, with a lot of pointing and smiling, followed by a group of hapless farangs being frog-marched off to an immigration holding pen, didn't happen.

The confusion and turmoil among young farangs working here under-the-radar must have been considerable. Something like a raid by the Keystone Kops - nobody arrested or seriously injured, but chaos in their wake.

If any harm was done, it was psychological. It wasn't an intelligence failure of the type that led to a drone attack with Hellfire missles on a wedding party... TIT after all.

There are still some smiles left in the land.

Y'all can go back to work now.

[ThaiEskimo]

This article might be useful to those following the thread: What Digital Nomads can Learn from the Immigration Raid at PunSpace

[DrTuner]

This article might be useful to those following the thread: What Digital Nomads can Learn from the Immigration Raid at PunSpace

Nice article. Just remember Siam Startup and Iglu are apparently connected companies and are looking for $$$ to set you up legally. At least when you're sitting in the Iglu offices in Chiang Mai. AFAIK both are pretty new in the scene and whether using a BOI company to effectively be used as an umbrella will fly in the long term is unknown. Caveat emptor.