Teachers Of The English Language

[Ladphrao]

I have come to the conclusion that English teachers are on average much more intelligent than the rest of us riff raff. While I normally don't like to generalize and deal with stereotypes, the overall uniformity of my recent interactions with English teachers here in Thailand has led me to deduce that English teachers are on average on a level of intellectual capability that us mere mortals can not comprehend.

A typically conversation with an English teacher usually takes off when I answer "I am doing fine" to the question "How are you?" The English teachers nearly always finds innumerable reasons that I never recognized why my feeling fine is not possible and that I am in fact feeling terrible, and that I am only fooling myself into thinking I am fine. I am always amazed at how these teachers are able to know for a certainty that I am not doing fine when I was pretty certain that I was doing fine before the encounter.

Also English teachers seem to have insights into the character of others that are not apparent to us lesser beings. For example, the newbie English teacher has recently informed my that the woman working in the office I had know for years who to my untrained mind had gone out of her way to be friendly and helpful was in fact an evil back-stabbing hag. If I only relied on my personal experience and not the knowledge I gained from conversations with English teachers I would have never known that all Thais are out to get "us."

Then there is the incredible analytical ability that most English teachers possess that often baffles those of us with only normal capabilities. For example, recently I had a conversation with an English teacher about the economic future of Thailand. I was going on about how after looking at trade patterns, productivity increases, demographic data, and the opinions of professional experts, I was pretty bullish on Thailand's economic future. However, the English teacher informed me that the country was going down the drain and only a fool would invest money here. Why I asked. He said, "the educational system is complete doo doo, just today little Somchai, the sixth grader who designed the Chinese Language page for the school website, misspelled flavour on his quiz today, he spelt it flavor." Amazing! I could have never extrapolated the future of the Thai economy from a single missing vowel in a spelling quiz in the way the English teacher could. I just don't think on the same level.

Then there is the incredible business knowledge and expertise English teachers possess. I have had it explained to me more times than I can count by English teachers how the Chinese-Thai owners of the schools they work at, the ones who have grown the schools from a single room with around 10 students to having multiple campuses with tens of thousand of students in a single generation, are complete idiots and then the English teachers, who don't appear to have any real education or experience in business, tell me in detail how the school should be run. I am amazed. How do these teachers know their ideas would work when they have never been tried? I try to ask questions, since these ideas don't seem to be based on any known academic business theories or empirical evidence, but I just get that look that tells me I am an idiot to not know that anything said by a Farang English teacher in bar after midnight is unquestionable truth.

And we can not forget the amazing cultural expertise of the average English teacher. Me, I am still trying to learn the culture and still taking Thai lessons as I have not yet mastered the language after the better part of a decade here. However, the average English Teachers is a complete expert on Thai culture within two weeks of arrival and is therefore able to spend an incalculable number of hours explaining Thai culture to the rest of us instead of wasting their time trying to learn about the culture. Most English teachers, as experts in teaching foreign languages, are somehow able to master the art of communicating in Thai with the use of only six words, which are learned during their first visits to Nana Plaza. Therefore, they don't waste any time or mental energy in trying to learn a foreign language giving the teachers more time to expostulate on how the current government and educational system inhibit language learning, and explaining how the systems they grow up in has produced far more experts in foreign languages than the Thai system has.

I know it is not good to over generalize, and there probably are many English teachers out there who are not on such a high mental plane, but recently, I have mostly been surrounded by the most astute people who are very confident in their level of knowledge. This has made it very difficult for me to find any common ground, and the frustration that this is causing me makes me wonder whether I should just accept the fact that I will never be able to approach being near the educational and intellectual level of English teachers and stop trying to fit in with this group, or should I continue to seek out and hope to find friends who are English teachers who are not as intellectually advanced as the English teachers I have recently been exposed to.

[PeaceBlondie]

Yeah, man, like wow, I know exactly what you mean. My majors are in religion and accounting. I take education lessons from my daughter.

[mr_hippo]

Didn't you know that a TEFL certificate endows some people with infinite wisdom? One acquaintance of mine told me that Thai grammar was all wrong because they put the adjective after the noun - he had been in Thailand for a whole 6 months. The same person told my Thai wife off for using her toes to turn our free standing fan off saying "We don't do that in Thailand!"

I get annoyed with two teacher's sites where a lot of the posters are 'teachers' cannot spell and use bad grammar. I am not perfect but I do expext fellow 'teachers' to have a better command of English than 7 year olds. If you teach a subject than you should have a good working knowledge of it.

There are a lot of good, dedicated teahers here in Thailand but I think we are outnumbered by the beer-swilling 'tourist-teachers'. One thread on a different site asks 'Why can't we wear jeans for work?' No matter what make the jeans are, they do not look the part. If you look professional, you will feel professional and people will think that you are professional.

Another gift bestowed with the TEFL certificate appears to be able to speak to anyone (both native and non-native speakers ) in pidgin English. If you speak pidgin to people, they will assume that that is the correct form.

[Khutan]

I think its certain behavoural characteristics that make English teachers motivated and what they are.

I also enjoy the couple of hours a week I now spend at "Household-name.com" helping the people there with English and prouncing the words correctly. The fact people are so keen and are so interested in the difference in how you say "F" "V" and "Ough" like Life, Live and ENOUGH !!!!

Its great, and those who have the ability to do it every day (not Ebbery day) have my respect.

[Ijustwannateach]

Agree with OP completely. English teachers are perfect. And they hardly ever become sad, bitter stalkers.... if only I could be more like them!

[PeaceBlondie]

All right, it's Sunday morning coming down, the kids are in Sunday School, and I'm too disabled to get to morning mass, so here comes my confession. And in spite of my usual humor or humour, this is serious:

Forgive me, fathers and mothers of Thailand, but I have sinned against heaven and in your sight. I have taught your children, and I have shown outward respect to your ajarns; but then I have gone anonymously onto internet forums, and said that the education system in Thailand was less than perfect, and that your darling little teenage Songsapornporn or Patchapong was less than a pefect student, or that Ajarn Sosuroldman wasn't up to snuff with the latest educational philosophies and practices.

I'm sorry to have used internet forums as a punching bag where I could lambast the condition of education in Thailand. I shouldn't be that negative. In this culture, I should pretend everything is sebai. Okay, it's sebai.

Your matayom teachers work very hard, they are sincere, and they are trying to do their best with what they've been given. Administering a Thai school must be nearly impossible, so let's applaud those hard working Directors. And honestly, the students are much better behaved, and more respectful to their teachers, than in native speaking English countries.

Enough. I was serious. What more shall I do for penance?

Oh, higher education. I'm ignorant; I don't have an advanced degree; I've never worked at a rajabat or Thai university. Those fine institutions may even excell Harvard or Oxbridge; their professors must be geniuses, and the students never cheat, always attend class and act alert. They are the pride and future of Thailand, and surely will propell this Kingdom to first world status or "fully overdeveloped country" within 90 days. Uhh, erm, this paragraph isn't completely serious.

[Loaded]

I get annoyed with two teacher's sites where a lot of the posters are 'teachers' cannot spell and use bad grammar. I am not perfect but I do expext fellow 'teachers' to have a better command of English than 7 year olds. If you teach a subject than you should have a good working knowledge of it.

maybe some of the errors you're describing are typos or just a lack of attention to detail when teachers want to get their voice heard in a discussion forum. Oh, look I didn't capitalise the 'm' in maybe at the start of this sentence.

Mr. Hippo.

You made a spelling error and a grammatical error in the above (by not putting a comma between the conditional and result clauses of your 'If' sentence). Nobody cares except you.

Take it easy and chill out buddy.

[toptuan]

THE PINNACLE

Title and subtitle of this forum

Getting my TEFL

Getting a post in a university

Thai students

People who are agents of positive change

THE PIT

Reading opening post

Feeling just as dumb as pre-certificate days

Wishing PB's last post, last paragraph, were really true

Thai administrators

Cynics

[Ladphrao]

There must have been some mistake, my post was deleted when it obviously did not break any forum rules. So I will repost. Is someone delting posts just because they don't like their content even when no rules are broken?

PB

“I don't have an advanced degree”

I doubt that anyone who has read more than one or two of your posts would question the truthfulness of this statement,

“even excell Harvard or Oxbridge”

Why did you choose these schools as your benchmarks to judge by? Why didn’t you choose the same universities here in Thailand ten years ago?

Thai universities are obviously below the standards of the best universities in the richest nations on Earth. However, Thai universities are also significantly advanced over where they were 20 years ago. You have your proof that Thai universities are bad and I have my proof that Thai universities are good. What did this accomplish?

As anyone who has mastered the art of spin knows, one may not be able to choose what is being measured but one can always choose what one will use to measure it against.

In judging Thailand’s economic development, if one wanted to use the United States as the benchmark, no worries, Thailand will fall short during all of our lifetimes and we can live in comfort knowing our civilization is better than theirs.

Let us judge the Thai educational system, at least let’s judge the foreign language programs in this country since most teachers here are English teachers.

If we measure the average level of ENGLISH language ability of Thai student and compare it to the average level of American/British students, the Brits and Yanks will win hands down.

If we measure the average level of FOREIGN language ability of Thai students and compare it to the average level of American/British students, the Thais will win hands down.

The economy

If you want to measure the economic development level of Thailand against that of the United States, Thailand looks improvised.

If you measure the economic development level of Thailand against that of its neighboring countries that also have Theravada Buddhist societies, it looks like a very successful economy.

You choice of benchmarks will affect how you judge Thailand.

However, I will take it one step further. Why bother selecting benchmarks and feeling the need to always judge others? Why can’t Thailand be totally different from Australia, and both still be pretty cool places to live? Why can’t the educational system in Thailand be different, since the culture is so much different, from the system in Canada and still work here in Thailand?

What do we, as teachers, gain by being so judgmental all the time?

Thailand is Thailand, no more, no less. All the moaning in all the staff rooms around the country won’t change this fact.

Don’t misunderstand me and think I am saying we shouldn’t be trying to improve the educational systems we work in. If we can help in some small way in improving the educational system and economy and the country, then we are doing something worthwhile. However, working to improve the system does not require constant gripping about our own conditions (without giving a hoot for the students or others in the system) or constantly reminding every one we come into contact with we are from more advanced economies than the “locals” are. From my experience and perspective, one can do far more good from coming as colleagues and equals with a different perspective than coming from a position of superiority and thinking that one has a better perspective than the “natives”.

[Ijustwannateach]

Actually, your original post was much more aggressively phrased and flamed a mod, so it did in fact break forum rules, as you must have realised since you edited it when you reposted it.

I don't understand your message or how it relates either to the original post or to teaching in Thailand. No one here is trying to make our discussions a matter of "Thailand vs. America" except you, and I don't think anyone else is much interested in that, either. If this is really the way you see other posters on this subforum, I'm afraid you're very much alone.

What most good foreign teachers are doing here is getting along as best they can in an alien system while doing their best to help it improve. Complaining and joking about things in that system are a part of adjustment, and also part of the help. Quite possibly the reason that there has been improvement in the system is that little by little, people with good common sense ideas were finally heard by the right people. I don't see how complaining about the people involved in the discussion/debate helps the process, especially on false grounds.

"Steven"

[Ladphrao]

My message was addressed to PB, not you

[dr_Pat_Pong]

There is some calming medicine required here. Our friend Ladphrao has almost run out of membership with 'points' duly allocated by mods. I, personally did not allocate a solitary adverse point, but I did ban his brand new name. The whole topic is on my watching brief.

[jbowman1993]

Stewie (to Lois): Look at him. He runs like a Welshman. Doesn't he run like a Welshman? Doesn't he? I think he runs like a Welshman.

[mbkudu]

I get annoyed with two teacher's sites where a lot of the posters are 'teachers' cannot spell and use bad grammar. I am not perfect but I do expext fellow 'teachers' to have a better command of English than 7 year olds. If you teach a subject *than* you should have a good working knowledge of it.

maybe some of the errors you're describing are typos or just a lack of attention to detail when teachers want to get their voice heard in a discussion forum. Oh, look I didn't capitalise the 'm' in maybe at the start of this sentence.

Mr. Hippo.

You made a spelling error and a grammatical error in the above (by not putting a comma between the conditional and result clauses of your 'If' sentence). Nobody cares except you.

Take it easy and chill out buddy.

'Than' should be 'then.' If one needs to point out an ant crawling on the floor, surely there is one who will point out the spot on its head.

Edited July 27, 2006 by mbkudu

[the scouser]

I get annoyed with two teacher's sites where a lot of the posters are 'teachers' cannot spell and use bad grammar. I am not perfect but I do expext fellow 'teachers' to have a better command of English than 7 year olds. If you teach a subject *than* you should have a good working knowledge of it.

maybe some of the errors you're describing are typos or just a lack of attention to detail when teachers want to get their voice heard in a discussion forum. Oh, look I didn't capitalise the 'm' in maybe at the start of this sentence.

Mr. Hippo.

You made a spelling error and a grammatical error in the above (by not putting a comma between the conditional and result clauses of your 'If' sentence). Nobody cares except you.

Take it easy and chill out buddy.

'Than' should be 'then.' If one needs to point out an ant crawling on the floor, surely there is one who will point out the spot on its head.

Indeed! I would also argue that no possessive apostrophe is required in relation to "teacher's", as, surely, the sites are for teachers rather than belonging to them. If the latter were to be the case, then the apostrophe should come after the "s", as, presumably, Mr. H. was making reference to more than one teacher. Also, "7 year olds" should be hyphenated.

I'm not a teacher, but was born of two of them, and just can't help myself: apologies.

Scouse.

[mr_hippo]

It took long enough to spot all of my typo's

[mbkudu]

It took long enough to spot all of my typo's

kno apawstophy in 'typos.' Neads a fullstopaswell.

Edited July 28, 2006 by mbkudu

[mr_hippo]

I was always taught that if you abbreviate a phrase such as 'typographical errors' then an apostrophe is needed in the plural. One of the few exceptions is the word 'maths' - British English. My keyboard wishes to apologise to you that the full stop key was on holiday yesterday.

[BKKGuitar]

I get annoyed with two teacher's sites where a lot of the posters are 'teachers' cannot spell and use bad grammar. I am not perfect but I do expext fellow 'teachers' to have a better command of English than 7 year olds. If you teach a subject than you should have a good working knowledge of it.

maybe some of the errors you're describing are typos or just a lack of attention to detail when teachers want to get their voice heard in a discussion forum. Oh, look I didn't capitalise the 'm' in maybe at the start of this sentence.

Mr. Hippo.

You made a spelling error and a grammatical error in the above (by not putting a comma between the conditional and result clauses of your 'If' sentence). Nobody cares except you.

Take it easy and chill out buddy.

I'm agreeing here. I don't get all this sniping at people who aren't using *perfect* English (especially in informal forums like this one), when the average Thai student is struggling with the simplest of English useage...

[mijan24]

My message was addressed to PB, not you

Only my 222 cents worth - if your message was for PB only then why didn't you, PM PB ? Surely as a regular poster you must expect comment when you post to an open forum? Or are you that tied up with your own self importance that you like to comment about the pack but do not want to be considered a runner?

Edited August 3, 2006 by mijan24

[the swagman]

Had a bad day eh?

[Thaimonkeymeat]

I just have a question here, I am sorry but it is a little off the current topic.

Is it British english or American english that we are teaching in Thailand, becuase I am teaching now in Taiwan, and the government wants American english. I will be starting to teach highschool in September, in the north east of Thailand, and I would like to know.

I am guessing that from what I have read this answer is obvious, but also curious since both American english and British english has been used.

So if anyone could help me I would be very happy, also I apoligise it being off topic from the above replies

[PeaceBlondie]

Both are acceptable, generally. A few obvious exceptions would be British Council, AUA, international schools that favor one of the two curricula, etc. Everybody else wants both or will accept either.

In my humble opinion, I think a good teacher has to know both, including why the Americans use the simple past tense for "Did you eat yet?" and the Brits have to say, "Have you eaten yet?" Also, the distinction that Americans don't make, but British speakers do, between "I will do that" and "I am going to do that." Plus the vocab differences; you probably need to learn them all. Including southern US "y'all" for second person plural.

[Neeranam]

In my humble opinion, I think a good teacher has to know both, including why the Americans use the simple past tense for "Did you eat yet?" and the Brits have to say, "Have you eaten yet?" Also, the distinction that Americans don't make, but British speakers do, between "I will do that" and "I am going to do that." Plus the vocab differences; you probably need to learn them all. Including southern US "y'all" for second person plural.

I used to say, "Americans say that, but it's wrong".

[Thaimonkeymeat]

I also agree with what he said to .

This is why i asked, because of vocab spelling, say for example I want to give a vocab test, would I allow both types of spelling, and than try to explain to the students, about why they are spelt different, without going into lengthy detail, or try and confuse them.

Even though I don't know why they are spelt different, I have always thought it was just accent , however when I looked, it is really only American and English. For example Australia, and from what I have been told Canada, and probably various other countries use the english spelling, and so far only America uses the American version. Which confuses me even more, when the Taiwanese want American spelling, and they want to have American accents to.

I am not trying to cause offense, and I have nothing against the American way of spelling, I am just curious why english is the way it is today.

So the real thing is what is so special about leaving the "u" out of color/colour, or even neighbor/neighbour,and the countless other words in the wonderful world of english?

Also with the very first topic that started this thread, when I started here in Taiwan, I unfortuntely met a teacher like that, they were nice, but they just sort of spoiled my first 6 months in beautiful and cheap Taiwan, "about why Taiwanese are like this, and why the Taiwanese do that", and various other things that sort of really warped my view of Taiwan. That was until I became friends with the locals, I asked the teacher how long they had been in Taiwan, the reply was only 3 weeks....

I try each time that I head into a different culture, I try to learn and fit in as much as I would be able to. I am not the type to critize a country, because the obvious is that they are going to be different 100%. Well, maybe Macdonalds, and 7-11 chains stores around the world might be in a few dozen countries. My goal is when I go to Thailand in 19 days, that I will go with an open mind, but also keep in mind of why I am in this beautiful country. I may be a young english teacher(22) but I am going to try and immerse myself and when I leave, I will have gained even more insight into their way of life, and there culture.

Summing up I have to say, when you travel go with a open mind, and use comman sense.

[mbkudu]

You think too much. Thais could care less about the differences. Like Blondie said, teachers should know both ways, and eventually they learn both ways teaching here. If a Thai is going to study in Engalnd, then he would probably prefer a British teacher, but even then they are not particular about it and an Amercian will suit them fine in most cases. You will find that Thai people are some of the most flexible on earth.

[Loaded]

Take a butcher's at the book the school provides for its students. Usually they're from CUP and OUP and although both publishers provide American English books they're usually British English.

IMO British English has a firmer grip on EFL publications in Thailand and hence curriculums. Most schools make their buying decision based on cost, and if it can be used in conjunction with the national syllabus, books with 6 levels - Pratom 1 - 6 and Matayom 1-6.