Lawyers want DNA tested by UK police

[Konini]

I think a lot of people are being unfair to Mark Kent - while he is the obvious target for a lot of anger, anyone with any back knowledge on how the diplomatic corps are obliged to act would not expect him to have made any comment.

He is merely a public servant, one whose job above anyone else's job in the whole world is to do exactly and precisely what his employers instruct him to do, without the slightest deviance from those instructions; any such deviance can quite literally lead to war. Diplomats (of any country) are strictly not allowed to make comment on legal matters, civil cases, criminal trials or on-going investigations by sovereign police forces.

I'm not making excuses for him, I know how frustrating it can be thinking of how little the Foreign Office does to help some people who really need it, I'm just reminding anyone who had forgotten, or sharing the knowledge with those who don't know.

If and when the government of Great Britain wants to make a public statement on this matter, it will most likely be done so through him. It is even possible that he has been instructed to make private comments to the powers that be through diplomatic channels, and if he has been, we will never find out about it.

Just sayin'

[givenall]

Well it's long over due, lets hope the U.K reciprocate.

What's wrong with British government, no reaction to any of these.

[Number 3]

Christ could Mark Kent be any more of a spineless coward? His blog post and rhetoric up to know sounds exactly like all the Thai authorities telling us not to 'abuse' social media, or basically 'please shut up and stop spreading information we cant control' we wouldnt even be here right now with the Thai authorities in a panic if it wasnt for the pressure that has some from very solid evidence being shared by people!

As for the graphic images being spread around they were released by the Thai authorities!! Oh buy you dont criticize them do you Mr Kent?

How come the PM of Myanmar a country with one of the WORST humans rights records in the world can make a statement to help 2 of his citizens but neither the UK PM nor even the sodding ambassador to the nation can say anything when 2 Brits are killed!

Oh and did anyone see that he did a talk at Thammasat Uni just a week ago about the responsibility of using social media etc, this is right around the time when everything had been picking up traction on CSI LA etc, how very convenient....

https://twitter.com/KentBKK/status/517907219380064256

My thoughts entirely. No response from British Embassy. Must not upset the Thai government. Well the British couple are dead and burried,so who care who killed them.

Here bloody here !

I'm still at the " we need 100 000 signatures for this to be brought up in front parliament "

Not sure here,but guessing the prez of Myanmar did ne require that ?

Dreadful showing from spineless career diplomats. How can this appear to be any more appalling to all foreigners here let alone those of thy majesty's rule. If thats rule Brittania you can you have sodding well have it.

Shame shame shame that you can let down all these kids for saving of your own face. As bad as the sodding Thais.

[englishoak]

It's the only way. Forget what's happened.

Hannah's body was sent directly to the UK. You can bet your bippy that the UK took DNA samples from her cavities. They have the DNA of the rapist(s).

Now all they need is verified swabs from the accused to compare and I'll bet my bippy they don't match.

Yes, they have this DNA, for sure. We can trust them

Since lawyers are calling for Burmese against expertise they can easily compare.

And I bet the hat of my ancestor that DNA match.

It seems to me impossible that the Thai police have lied about the DNA. Too big, too random, too risky. This would obviously be a conspiracy by idiots.

Contrary to overall racist and contemptuous opinions posted here I do not feel the conspiracy and I think that Thais are not idiots.

Oh they arnt idiots, but neither are they anything remotely resembling trustworthy.

[CapGary]

My comments to Mark Kent:

A devastatingly tragic time for the families of two attractive and bright youngsters who had absolutely everything to live for. As a father myself, my heart goes out to them and I hope desperately that they can in some way come to terms with this senseless loss.

I am not only overwhelmed with sadness but also with a tremendous feeling of anger. Thailand is a country that I elect to spend a considerable amount of time in and I genuinely love the Thai people and this marvellous country.

At the moment I am struggling to come to terms with how a system so despicably corrupt can be allowed continue to predominate, even to the obvious detriment of virtually everyone in Thailand.

I believe these youngsters perished as a direct result of the despotic control and mafia type tyranny metastatically spreading through many of the popular tourist destinations along with the direct involvement or tacit -read paid- approval of the Police.

Beyond all else I hope that justice can prevail and the families of the both David and Hannah can find some comfort from that. A line needs to be drawn here and the Thia authorities need to show the rest of the world that it takes the deaths of their visiting citizens seriously.

[Fatty123]

KOH TAO KILLINGS

Lawyers want DNA tested by UK police

Suwannee Bantisak

The Sunday Nation

BANGKOK: -- NHRC sending a team to investigate crime scene as suspects retract confession

In a related development, British Ambassador to Thailand Mark Kent urged Thai social media users not to spread disturbing photos relating to the case or passport photos and details of the victims, saying their families had already suffered a lot. He made the request via his Thai-language blog on Friday. He also urged the Thai mainstream mass media not to prejudge the accused and let the justice process run its course.

Kent said the Thai media, including the social media, should be "responsible as well as free".

Source: http://www.nationmultimedia.com/national/Lawyers-want-DNA-tested-by-UK-police-30245295.html

-- The Nation 2014-10-12

I do not think Mr Kent has a clue about how the Thai justice system works. As for social media, people should take responsibility for their actions but that does not mean silence when there is such palpable corruption and incompetence exhibited nor should it stop people asking questions and demanding transparency.

As far as responsibility is concerned the Authorities and for that matter the Britsh Embassy have a far, far greater responsibility to seek the truth and justice and to ensure that Justice is SEEN to be done as well. That responsibilty comes from being representatives of the people regardless of who appointed them. Even the junta is there by consent of the people albeit implicit and uneasy.

Sent from my iPad using ThaiVisa app

The Junta is there by consent of the people?

I agree with everything else you said though

[mango66]

"Regional Public Prosecution 8 deputy director-general Thawatchai Siangjaew said he had not been informed yet about the police's additional interrogation of the two suspects in prison while a deputy chief of Provincial Police Region 8 denied the suspects had retracted their confession. Thawatchai said prosecutors would consider for indictment mainly the evidence in the case, including CCTTV footage from the crime scene and witness testimonies. The retraction of confession by suspects would not influence their decision to indict them, he added."

In other words we will do what ever we want, and we dont have to listen to anybody else because we have our men!

They are already busy to spend the BRIBES !!

[Friendly Stranger]

I wonder if beads of sweat are forming on the bib's side as they probably thought it would not come to this. For their sake, this better be the guys or else this will be one hell of a loss of face amongst other things.

Edited October 12, 2014 by Friendly Stranger

[Heisenberg01]

Its safe to say most on here dont think the Burmese kids are the guilty ones.

Most clamouring for the Headman/Headmans son to be DNA tested so fair to say hes the number one suspect, at least on social media and forums.

However why is it not one person has come forward and claimed he was even on the island that night?

Non of the victims freinds, ex pats or other holiday makers, not one.

The 2 brothers from Jersey, Hannahs freinds, im sure one would be able to say if he was there or not, im sure he is well known.

Not one from his school, airline employee, noone has said anything to indicate he is inplicated/was on the island.

Im not suggesting for one minute the Burma guys are guilty and know just how bad the Thai police are but i would have expected something to come out by now regarding the son, if any truth in it.

Mccanna, Seans/Hannas freinds at least, if not other holiday makers would have been to the law when back home surely?

Unless they have and as of yet its not been released?

[Krenjai]

Perhaps they raped her, but did not kill her. That was someone else. Because the brutality of her wounds were of real animal like rage. Like someone who was very angry perhaps with the two young lads. Shise, i hated writing that. Like she doesn't exist anymore as a person, just as a victim. She still is a person in my mind,

I concur. I've met a lot of young women like Hannah, through the course of a work-exchange program I do in northernmost Thailand. Of the thousand or so farang backpackers I've met and worked with in the past 10 years, not one has been problematic. All have been cheerful and eager to meet this crazy world with alacrity.

However, since we're discussing a grizzly double murder, there's a hypothetical I want to mention: One thing that can set a man in to a rage is get his dick bit. Several prior posts have mentioned the believable possibility that date-rape drugs were/are commonly used at AC bar by the Thais who run the place and possibly facilitated by Sean (that could be a reason he's incognito). Now imagine they slipped Hannah a mickey and get her to go out to the beach in the wee hours (those two things constitute 90% of a rape scenario). While one or more guys are forcing themselves on her (and she sees David getting killed) it's not outlandish to surmise she may have put teeth in an offending member if it was within biting range. If that (along with some succint words) doesn't send a drug/alcohol fueled sex-crazed guy in to a rage, I don't know what will. Also, those suspects (connected to AC bar) are rich Thais who are used to getting their way with everyone, particularly cute drunk farang chicks, who may also have inadvertedly ingested a date-rape drug. I mention that possible scenario only because I (like many others) want the real culprits to be arrested and tried. The investigating cops don't appear to want to think about any of what I just mentioned, because it doesn't sinc with their frame-up of the Burmese guys. Also, I've heard nothing about whether cops checked bodies of those who should be suspects, via body searches (including privates) and blood tests. ....just another of the dozens of basic investigative things the cops appear to have NOT done.

Me thinks we have a budding crime novelist in our midst .........

Sounds like an adult movie writer. Sick.

Not so sick IMHO, this scenario is plausible and I think along the same lines. IMHO Sean, fruitcake, drug addict & drug facilitator possibly lured Hannah to the crime scene where his Thai Buddy's & Co. were ready to jump all over her. Unfortunately David somehow heard or saw something and came to the rescue but paid with his life! Sean became a witness of David's killing probably tried to stop it, but got cut in the action, and ran for his life. Explains the blood on Sean that was washed off by an AC employee, also explains the guitar sprayed with blood which Sean did not wash off. The culprits had to be sure Hannah would never identify one of them because indeed she may have seen something, so that explains her wounds. They had to be sure. This scenario is also sick, agreed, but so is the crime!

I keep repeating myself, dozens of anonymous emails from KT are pointing to one person as the main suspect........ I suggest you get his DNA!

[Heisenberg01]

Dozens of emails sent from KT?

To where and to whom?

Or is this just rumour, again?

[biplanebluey]

the weird thing in this case is the fact that Thai police have claimed they base their case on witness statements and cctv footage but no mention of the DNA match

If a sample of the DNA evidence originally obtained from the crime scene cannot be provided by the Thai police for independent testing then this case is far from solved - it has already been pointed out by the head of forensics in Bangkok that his team (which should have been involved from the start) had seemingly no involvement

So who is holding the DNA from the victim ? and why is it not being made available to defence lawyers

If the DNA doesn't match then there is no case

If Thai police won't provide samples of the DNA for independent testing - why not ?

Could the UK authorities have tested the bodies on return to UK, or would they have been scrubbed clean?

Sorry Misses Mop,but my understanding is that you can get DNA from all different parts of the body,so scrub away !!!!

[Credo]

There are a lot of unwarranted remarks directed at the UK gov't and Mark Kent. We don't know what is happening behind the scenes and I am sure there is a lot of pressure being applied where it can best be applied.

Thais do not respond well to a public loss of face, so it is the behind the scenes negotiations that may be the most fruitful.

I am sure the UK gov't wants this case solved in a fair and just manner. I doubt they will sit by idly and let a miscarriage of justice occur if there is anything they can do to prevent it.

[boomerangutang]

well lets see if the Junta will allow it.

Yup. Surely the defence lawyers have access to the accused?

I would love to see the defense lawyers and someone from the UK government go into the Samui jail with DNA test kits for the suspects. Along with a film crew. I would love to see the faces of the jailers and if they would allow the tests to be performed. Someone grow some balls and GET IT DONE!

Even if DNA were taken from the Burmese suspects and independently processed, how sure can we be that the original DNA signatures haven't been tampered with or labels changed? How hard would it be for Thai officialdom to tamper with evidence that ONLY THEY are in possession of? It's obvious officialdom is doing a full court press to nail the Burmese. Each hour of each passing day, the stakes increase. If it's proven Thai cops have created a frame-up, careers or top brass might get squashed and even the PM might blush in embarrassment.

Also, how can we be so sure that UK authorities took evidence samples from the victims when handed to their care? Even if they did, would UK officialdom be willing to counter Thai officialdom? Methinks if it came to conflicting data, the UK would opt to do nothing (as they're doing now). The reason: These two murders and maintaining the frame-up of two scapegoats is less grave, from a diplomatic perspective, than offending their Thai hosts.

[ParadiseLost]

There are a lot of unwarranted remarks directed at the UK gov't and Mark Kent. We don't know what is happening behind the scenes and I am sure there is a lot of pressure being applied where it can best be applied.

Thais do not respond well to a public loss of face, so it is the behind the scenes negotiations that may be the most fruitful.

I am sure the UK gov't wants this case solved in a fair and just manner. I doubt they will sit by idly and let a miscarriage of justice occur if there is anything they can do to prevent it.

+1

Add to that the fact they are dealing with a military government. Normal diplomatic relations may be a bit strained at the moment, and any attempts to interfere would most likely be rejected anyway.

[biplanebluey]

Well it's long over due, lets hope the U.K reciprocate.

What's wrong with British government, no reaction to any of these.

Not reading much are you???????

[HOOD Robin]

"In a related development, British Ambassador to Thailand Mark Kent urged Thai social media users not to spread disturbing photos relating to the case or passport photos and details of the victims, saying their families had already suffered a lot. He made the request via his Thai-language blog on Friday. He also urged the Thai mainstream mass media not to prejudge the accused and let the justice process run its course."

=> Is that Mark Kent guy really the official English embassador in TH ? oh jeees... he was the first to shake hands and congratulate the RTP culprits for "solving" this murder case.... Is this clown escaped from an English circus ?

[Krenjai]

Dozens of emails sent from KT?

To where and to whom?

Or is this just rumour, again?

http://www.change.org/p/the-government-of-the-united-kingdom-independently-investigate-the-horrific-murders-of-hannah-witheridge-and-david-miller?utm_source=petition_update&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=petition_update_email

[boomerangutang]

I am curious if the police in the UK have interviewed the other people associated with this case who are now back in he UK.

I don't know, but I've heard UK officials are woefully busy with thousands of jihadists coming and going to dune countries.

Its safe to say most on here dont think the Burmese kids are the guilty ones.

Most clamouring for the Headman/Headmans son to be DNA tested so fair to say hes the number one suspect, at least on social media and forums. However why is it not one person has come forward and claimed he was even on the island that night? (shortened for brevity)

For starters, it was reported at the very early stage of the investigation that the headman said something like, "my son just returned to Bangkok" Some poster on here may be able to find the precise quote. The headman later retracted that statement when he realized it might implicate his darling son.

But more damning: There has been, as far as I know, no meaningful recreation by officials of the scene at the AC bar the night of the crimes. Social media are rife with scenarios, but Thai officialdom are mum. There's only one reason why (besides not wanting to divulge all they know to the public): the scenario quite likely implicates several of the revelers in the bar that night, and Thai officialdom has silently declared all those (who should be prime suspects) as off limits.

[Number 3]

There are a lot of unwarranted remarks directed at the UK gov't and Mark Kent. We don't know what is happening behind the scenes and I am sure there is a lot of pressure being applied where it can best be applied.

Thais do not respond well to a public loss of face, so it is the behind the scenes negotiations that may be the most fruitful.

I am sure the UK gov't wants this case solved in a fair and just manner. I doubt they will sit by idly and let a miscarriage of justice occur if there is anything they can do to prevent it.

Fair point. but to appear strong on this publicly would have been enough for us to see that something more WAS going on. The smiles handshakes and the lack of a public lashing for misquoting his words were some basic contributions that may have tided us over no ?This tactic of staying stumm that we have seen over the last couple of weeks has been rather appalling if I do day so. Prez Myanmar now there's a guy with more to lose but strong words from the chief!

There are times when the UK FCO simply are not on the ground and not tuned in locally. Occasionally it arises where ground decisions are required. Within a framework of course. This was one.

Two tax paying citizens were brutally murdered. So now we all chip in to raise the petition numbers up to 100 000. To get a look in ?

THAT I am afraid I find very hard to swallow chaps and frankly it makes my skin crawl.

[boomerangutang]

The murders and now the frame-up are getting full tilt international coverage. Huffington Post and Time magazine
among others.

[Heisenberg01]

I am curious if the police in the UK have interviewed the other people associated with this case who are now back in he UK.

I don't know, but I've heard UK officials are woefully busy with thousands of jihadists coming and going to dune countries.

Its safe to say most on here dont think the Burmese kids are the guilty ones.

Most clamouring for the Headman/Headmans son to be DNA tested so fair to say hes the number one suspect, at least on social media and forums. However why is it not one person has come forward and claimed he was even on the island that night? (shortened for brevity)

For starters, it was reported at the very early stage of the investigation that the headman said something like, "my son just returned to Bangkok" Some poster on here may be able to find the precise quote. The headman later retracted that statement when he realized it might implicate his darling son.

But more damning: There has been, as far as I know, no meaningful recreation by officials of the scene at the AC bar the night of the crimes. Social media are rife with scenarios, but Thai officialdom are mum. There's only one reason why (besides not wanting to divulge all they know to the public): the scenario quite likely implicates several of the revelers in the bar that night, and Thai officialdom has silently declared all those (who should be prime suspects) as off limits.

Yes, i am aware of the headman being QUOTED as saying his son was in BKK and he couldnr get hold of him.

Im not doubting it would be great to just waltz in and DNA test all and sundry.

But im yet to see ANYONE anywhere claim he was on the island/in the bar that night.

If he was im certain the Ware brothers, Mcanna,Hannahs and Davids freinds and a load of others could verify this.

Whether the British police have been told this and are sitting on it for now time will tell, but such a claim would blow the lid of the case surely, just one person of note, Mcanna, The Ware brothers et all claiming the guy was on the island at the time?

With the CCTV,at the UNI, the police and eyewitnessess, it would surely force a climb down by the BIB.

Edited October 12, 2014 by Heisenberg01

[mango66]

A lawyer can talk - should be able - to talk to his clients undisturbed,

so he can get a single strain of hair, which would be enough !

On the other hand, they should be able to get DNA's from there parents,

which would show the matching to 99.999999999999999 percent !!

[glasswort]

<script type='text/javascript'>window.mod_pagespeed_start = Number(new Date());</script>

Good.

You seriously believe the RTP will allow this to happen?

[MJP]

<script type='text/javascript'>window.mod_pagespeed_start = Number(new Date());</script>

Good.

You seriously believe the RTP will allow this to happen?

If they don't, this will just get worse.

[Suradit69]

Well it's long over due, lets hope the U.K reciprocate.

Sounds like the Keystone Kops in UK have their share of bungled investigations and wrongful arrests.

A teenager spent three months in prison accused of rape in a city he had never visited because of a staggering DNA blunder.

Adam Scott, 19, had supplied a genetic sample to police over another unconnected matter. But a blundering laboratory contaminated it and he was wrongly charged with a sex attack on a woman. Despite pleading his innocence, Adam was remanded in custody and was due to stand trial next month. Now he is deciding whether to sue police after the catastrophic lab error came to light and the case dropped.Traumatised Adam, who lived 340 miles from where the rape took place last October, said: “I am angry I was falsely accused.

Adam, of Truro, Devon, was arrested three weeks after the woman was raped in Blackley, Manchester.

http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/dna-bungle-sees-teen-spend-759387

[huawei]

Well it's long over due, lets hope the U.K reciprocate.

Sounds like the Keystone Kops in UK have their share of bungled investigations and wrongful arrests.

A teenager spent three months in prison accused of rape in a city he had never visited because of a staggering DNA blunder.

Adam Scott, 19, had supplied a genetic sample to police over another unconnected matter. But a blundering laboratory contaminated it and he was wrongly charged with a sex attack on a woman. Despite pleading his innocence, Adam was remanded in custody and was due to stand trial next month. Now he is deciding whether to sue police after the catastrophic lab error came to light and the case dropped.Traumatised Adam, who lived 340 miles from where the rape took place last October, said: “I am angry I was falsely accused.

Adam, of Truro, Devon, was arrested three weeks after the woman was raped in Blackley, Manchester.

http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/dna-bungle-sees-teen-spend-759387

Usual anti British post.

[Globeman]

well lets see if the Junta will allow it.

Yup. Surely the defence lawyers have access to the accused?

Initially they didn't and in every interview since then, they have not been allowed to meet with their lawyers alone - there are always police there.

[englishoak]

Well it's long over due, lets hope the U.K reciprocate.

Sounds like the Keystone Kops in UK have their share of bungled investigations and wrongful arrests.

A teenager spent three months in prison accused of rape in a city he had never visited because of a staggering DNA blunder.

Adam Scott, 19, had supplied a genetic sample to police over another unconnected matter. But a blundering laboratory contaminated it and he was wrongly charged with a sex attack on a woman. Despite pleading his innocence, Adam was remanded in custody and was due to stand trial next month. Now he is deciding whether to sue police after the catastrophic lab error came to light and the case dropped.Traumatised Adam, who lived 340 miles from where the rape took place last October, said: “I am angry I was falsely accused.

Adam, of Truro, Devon, was arrested three weeks after the woman was raped in Blackley, Manchester.

http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/dna-bungle-sees-teen-spend-759387

There DNA is done all the time, and its an exception to the rule when theres a blunder. And guess what, when it comes up its reported, it matters and something is done about it.....

So what is the connection here ?

[shocky2004]

Could some thais people from mafia have forced the burmese guys to rape her then proceeded to kill her?