Lite Beer Posted October 11, 2014 Share Posted October 11, 2014 KOH TAO KILLINGSLawyers want DNA tested by UK policeSuwannee BantisakThe Sunday Nation BANGKOK: -- NHRC sending a team to investigate crime scene as suspects retract confessionTHE MYANMAR lawyers of the two men charged with the Koh Tao murders of two British tourists have asked Thailand's National Human Rights Commission and the Myanmar Embassy in the Kingdom to push for British police to conduct independent DNA tests in the case, as they believe their clients are innocent.Myanmar nationals Zaw Rin and Win have retracted their earlier confessions to police. Their lawyers are confident the charges against the two men will be dropped.The NHRC, meanwhile, is sending a team to examine the crime scene.The latest twist in the murder case came after Myanmar President Thein Sein asked visiting Prime Minister General Prayut Chan-o-cha on Friday to ensure a "clean and fair" investigation.On social media sites, many users refused to accept the result of the police investigation and raised the possibility that the two Myanmar nationals may be scapegoats in the murders of David Miller, 24, and Hannah Witheridge, 23. Their bodies were found on the island on September 15.Police chief General Somyot Pumpanmuang has insisted many times that police did not frame the accused.The NHRC is seeking to have forensic experts dispatched to Koh Tao to examine the case in detail.Pol Maj-General Pavin Pongsirisin, the head of the investigation, said yesterday that he was confident everything was fair and police had submitted all the papers relating to the investigation to the Office of the Attorney-General.In a related development, British Ambassador to Thailand Mark Kent urged Thai social media users not to spread disturbing photos relating to the case or passport photos and details of the victims, saying their families had already suffered a lot. He made the request via his Thai-language blog on Friday. He also urged the Thai mainstream mass media not to prejudge the accused and let the justice process run its course.Kent said the Thai media, including the social media, should be "responsible as well as free".Regional Public Prosecution 8 deputy director-general Thawatchai Siangjaew said he had not been informed yet about the police's additional interrogation of the two suspects in prison while a deputy chief of Provincial Police Region 8 denied the suspects had retracted their confession. Thawatchai said prosecutors would consider for indictment mainly the evidence in the case, including CCTTV footage from the crime scene and witness testimonies. The retraction of confession by suspects would not influence their decision to indict them, he added.Prosecutors are still waiting for the police investigators' submission of the amended case report. He said once the report is submitted, the prosecutors should be able to make a decision within seven days.Meanwhile, tourists continue to flock to Koh Tao under the watchful eye of tourist police and volunteers. The number of tourists is not high but it is still the low season, with strong ocean currents and monsoon rains. Source: http://www.nationmultimedia.com/national/Lawyers-want-DNA-tested-by-UK-police-30245295.html -- The Nation 2014-10-12 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post bigjules007 Posted October 11, 2014 Popular Post Share Posted October 11, 2014 Well it's long over due, lets hope the U.K reciprocate. 19 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MJP Posted October 11, 2014 Share Posted October 11, 2014 Good. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Johnsen Posted October 11, 2014 Popular Post Share Posted October 11, 2014 Y in every report do they have to somewhere mention flocking tourists... Weird stuff. Mark Kent to little to late.... Let the justice process take its course.... What's that, suicide by days end. Sadly I fear their is no DNA to even be re tested. Release all the CCTV footage for a start. The airport CCTV footage would b handy also.... 7 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post bigjules007 Posted October 11, 2014 Popular Post Share Posted October 11, 2014 "Regional Public Prosecution 8 deputy director-general Thawatchai Siangjaew said he had not been informed yet about the police's additional interrogation of the two suspects in prison while a deputy chief of Provincial Police Region 8 denied the suspects had retracted their confession. Thawatchai said prosecutors would consider for indictment mainly the evidence in the case, including CCTTV footage from the crime scene and witness testimonies. The retraction of confession by suspects would not influence their decision to indict them, he added." In other words we will do what ever we want, and we dont have to listen to anybody else because we have our men! 6 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post chooka Posted October 11, 2014 Popular Post Share Posted October 11, 2014 well lets see if the Junta will allow it. 18 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MJP Posted October 11, 2014 Share Posted October 11, 2014 well lets see if the Junta will allow it. Yup. Surely the defence lawyers have access to the accused? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post ATF Posted October 11, 2014 Popular Post Share Posted October 11, 2014 The parents' should have instigated their own investigation prior to this fiasco. However hindsight is 20/20. Don't depend on the UK Government for anything they can't even issue passports in a timely user friendly manner. 26 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post MikePhuket1970 Posted October 11, 2014 Popular Post Share Posted October 11, 2014 I love to repeat my request It would be so easy to save the reputation for thailand and authorities -release all cctv recordings from the crime night -take DNA from Nomsod by an independence investigation group It would be so easy to stop all speculations and outcry Its so simple,isn´t it ? 27 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post sustento Posted October 11, 2014 Popular Post Share Posted October 11, 2014 The UK Forensic Science Service was shut down in 2012 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fatty123 Posted October 11, 2014 Share Posted October 11, 2014 well lets see if the Junta will allow it. Would be interesting if they allowed the Brits to investigate and they then asked if they could DNA test 'you know who. ' Now that would be interesting. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post ATF Posted October 11, 2014 Popular Post Share Posted October 11, 2014 well lets see if the Junta will allow it. Would be interesting if they allowed the Brits to investigate and they then asked if they could DNA test 'you know who. ' Now that would be interesting. Never going to happen. If past cases are anything to go by the Burmese will get off on corruption of evidence thus saving face with Burma and the real killers will remain at large. 10 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NongKhaiKid Posted October 11, 2014 Share Posted October 11, 2014 well lets see if the Junta will allow it. Exactly as this is what it all boils down to. Many posters are calling for outside agencies involvement without considering they have no jurisdiction and can only operate if invited to do so and with all that's being going on it's probably the last thing the BIB want. Defence lawyers could perhaps petition a court for independent testing and even if it was granted it would likely be blocked by the junta and martial law is still in existence too. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sjjmmi Posted October 11, 2014 Share Posted October 11, 2014 So Game on Now 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post wackybacky Posted October 11, 2014 Popular Post Share Posted October 11, 2014 (edited) Lawyers want DNA tested by UK police Told ya I knew this was going to be next. RTP, Prayuth and the whole shebang....... Get out of that if you can. Now they also have to bribe Myanmar and the UK to get all this covered up. Just do the decent thing for once in your lives and arrest who you know done this crime. Bang up all those involved with the cover up and take your international arse kicking like a man. Oh my breakfast is gonna taste so good today. Edit: And to add the cherry to the cake, right at a time where Prayuth is 'supposed' to be in the midst of reforming Thailand and killing corruption..... Thailand will be exposed in the most dramatic way right in front of an international community who are totally focussed on it. Edited October 11, 2014 by wackybacky 17 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
draftvader Posted October 11, 2014 Share Posted October 11, 2014 well lets see if the Junta will allow it. Would be interesting if they allowed the Brits to investigate and they then asked if they could DNA test 'you know who. ' Now that would be interesting. Never going to happen. If past cases are anything to go by the Burmese will get off on corruption of evidence thus saving face with Burma and the real killers will remain at large. That would be the most Thai answer. The British answer will be on a hire motorbike riding to Sairee Beach More seriously though there might be enough pressure back home with an election for somebody to vacation in Koh Tao and pick up something that the family have handled. It wouldn't be admissible but would be enough to form the basis of political pressure to do things properly. It might be that the government is unwilling to exercise any pressure without the knowledge that they are right. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post wackybacky Posted October 11, 2014 Popular Post Share Posted October 11, 2014 Meanwhile, tourists continue to flock to Koh Tao under the watchful eye of tourist police and volunteers. The number of tourists is not high but it is still the low season, with strong ocean currents and monsoon rains. Meanwhile.... this is the funniest part.Blaming lack of tourists on the time of year, monsoon and currents..... OK. But even if they were actually 'flocking back'..... It's like rubbing tourist's noses in it..... 'HAHAHA.... but ya still coming back eh suckers.' 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post wackybacky Posted October 12, 2014 Popular Post Share Posted October 12, 2014 (edited) well lets see if the Junta will allow it. Exactly as this is what it all boils down to. Many posters are calling for outside agencies involvement without considering they have no jurisdiction and can only operate if invited to do so and with all that's being going on it's probably the last thing the BIB want. Defence lawyers could perhaps petition a court for independent testing and even if it was granted it would likely be blocked by the junta and martial law is still in existence too. Sorry, I don't think that is totally accurate. Myanmar lawyers can come here and take their DNA any time they want. They have the jurisdiction in Thailand, as they are the Myanmar Embassy lawyers. So they almost certainly are licensed to practice in this kingdom. They are completly within their rights to demand the ability to collect DNA from their clients which will be the main basis for their defence. Neither the Junta nor the BIB have any right to block it. These are NOT Thai nationals..... They are Myanmar nationals. They have rights under international law. I also can not see the UK refusing to cooperate with this request... It is totally rational, logical and a refusal would create a massive stink.... That will never be allowed to happen..... Trust me on that, I lived there foe 45 years. I bet the UK police are itching to get their hands on those lads' samples. Edited October 12, 2014 by wackybacky 10 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post mrtoad Posted October 12, 2014 Popular Post Share Posted October 12, 2014 The big problem though us thst the crime scene was contaminated from the get go. The BIB though are taking a well deserved hammering and their reputation worldwide is clear to see. 16 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post NongKhaiKid Posted October 12, 2014 Popular Post Share Posted October 12, 2014 well lets see if the Junta will allow it. Exactly as this is what it all boils down to. Many posters are calling for outside agencies involvement without considering they have no jurisdiction and can only operate if invited to do so and with all that's being going on it's probably the last thing the BIB want. Defence lawyers could perhaps petition a court for independent testing and even if it was granted it would likely be blocked by the junta and martial law is still in existence too. Sorry, I don't think that is totally accurate. Myanmar lawyers can come here and take their DNA any time they want. They have the jurisdiction in Thailand, as they are the Myanmar Embassy lawyers. So they almost certainly are licensed to practice in this kingdom. They are completly within their rights to demand the ability to collect DNA from their clients which will be the main basis for their defence. Neither the Junta nor the BIB have any right to block it. These are NOT Thai nationals..... They are Myanmar nationals. They have rights under international law. I also can not see the UK refusing to cooperate with this request... It is totally rational, logical and a refusal would create a massive stink.... That will never be allowed to happen..... Trust me on that, I lived there foe 45 years. I bet the UK police are itching to get their hands on those lads' samples. I think you may have simplified things somewhat as foreign lawyers can only practice here if accepted by the Thai Law Society so proven knowledge of Thai law and the ability to read, write and speak Thai is a must. Lawyers attached to embassies do not have an automatic right to anything. Yes demands can be made but do not have to be met. Foreign diplomats etc can make serious representation on behalf of their own nationals but have to remember they are in a foreign country with a different legal system and have no jurisdiction only the hope of diplomatic niceties. 7 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post JLCrab Posted October 12, 2014 Popular Post Share Posted October 12, 2014 (edited) Myanmar lawyers can come here and take their DNA any time they want. Negative. They have rights under international law. Negative. Edited October 12, 2014 by JLCrab 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post smedly Posted October 12, 2014 Popular Post Share Posted October 12, 2014 the weird thing in this case is the fact that Thai police have claimed they base their case on witness statements and cctv footage but no mention of the DNA match If a sample of the DNA evidence originally obtained from the crime scene cannot be provided by the Thai police for independent testing then this case is far from solved - it has already been pointed out by the head of forensics in Bangkok that his team (which should have been involved from the start) had seemingly no involvement So who is holding the DNA from the victim ? and why is it not being made available to defence lawyers If the DNA doesn't match then there is no case If Thai police won't provide samples of the DNA for independent testing - why not ? 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post davejonesbkk Posted October 12, 2014 Popular Post Share Posted October 12, 2014 Christ could Mark Kent be any more of a spineless coward? His blog post and rhetoric up to know sounds exactly like all the Thai authorities telling us not to 'abuse' social media, or basically 'please shut up and stop spreading information we cant control' we wouldnt even be here right now with the Thai authorities in a panic if it wasnt for the pressure that has some from very solid evidence being shared by people! As for the graphic images being spread around they were released by the Thai authorities!! Oh buy you dont criticize them do you Mr Kent? How come the PM of Myanmar a country with one of the WORST humans rights records in the world can make a statement to help 2 of his citizens but neither the UK PM nor even the sodding ambassador to the nation can say anything when 2 Brits are killed! Oh and did anyone see that he did a talk at Thammasat Uni just a week ago about the responsibility of using social media etc, this is right around the time when everything had been picking up traction on CSI LA etc, how very convenient.... https://twitter.com/KentBKK/status/517907219380064256 28 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post NongKhaiKid Posted October 12, 2014 Popular Post Share Posted October 12, 2014 Christ could Mark Kent be any more of a spineless coward? His blog post and rhetoric up to know sounds exactly like all the Thai authorities telling us not to 'abuse' social media, or basically 'please shut up and stop spreading information we cant control' we wouldnt even be here right now with the Thai authorities in a panic if it wasnt for the pressure that has some from very solid evidence being shared by people! As for the graphic images being spread around they were released by the Thai authorities!! Oh buy you dont criticize them do you Mr Kent? How come the PM of Myanmar a country with one of the WORST humans rights records in the world can make a statement to help 2 of his citizens but neither the UK PM nor even the sodding ambassador to the nation can say anything when 2 Brits are killed! Oh and did anyone see that he did a talk at Thammasat Uni just a week ago about the responsibility of using social media etc, this is right around the time when everything had been picking up traction on CSI LA etc, how very convenient.... https://twitter.com/KentBKK/status/517907219380064256 Thanks for your post as I seem to recall a member saying last week that on Kent's twitter account he had denied the ' exemplary professionalism ' praise and was suggesting things were going on behind the scenes. I don't use social media so rely on others to post. Incidentally, on Thu 02 Oct I e-mailed the British Embassy about the remarks being attributed to Kent and asked for clarification as it was hard to believe he would have said such a thing. I received the standard computer generated response but nothing else since. What a shock, I will be released from ICU soon. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post boomerangutang Posted October 12, 2014 Popular Post Share Posted October 12, 2014 The NHRC, meanwhile, is sending a team to examine the crime scene.Why does this not imbue me with a warm glow of confidence? They are Thai after-all. Thailand is still under martial law and top brass have already declared the murderers can't be Thai. The investigators were Thai officialdom The forensics were done by Thai officialdom NomSod, who should be a prime suspect is Thai and so is his lawyer The forced admission of guilt was in the presence of officialdom with no attorneys present. The claim of matching DNA (scapegoats and victim) was announced by Thai officialdom The prosecutors are Thai The judges will be Thai ....now we hear Thai NHRC is going to investigate. Before the Burmese scapegoats had attorneys, it was like a couple small immigrants vs the Thai national football team. Now, it's a bit better. It's a couple of small guys with one or two added players vs the Thai national football team. And guess which team the ref is leaning strongly towards? 7 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post HeijoshinCool Posted October 12, 2014 Popular Post Share Posted October 12, 2014 well lets see if the Junta will allow it. Would be interesting if they allowed the Brits to investigate and they then asked if they could DNA test 'you know who. ' Now that would be interesting. Never going to happen. If past cases are anything to go by the Burmese will get off on corruption of evidence thus saving face with Burma and the real killers will remain at large. . DNA samples taken from victims and suspects is termed "referral" samples. The RTP has publicly claimed they are following "international" criminal investigative procedures. In the west, in addition to referral samples, "elimination" samples of DNA are also often taken, and in a very public case such as this one, always taken. What does this mean? Well, first responders such as police and medics, but also "bystanders" who may have contaminated the scene (intentionally or otherwise) give samples to rule themselves out. This should be done contemporaneously, but since the UK has had access to the victims, and has presumably (only recently) collected DNA, could still be done now. The detective in charge in the UK, should "request" elimination samples. Guess who was in a number of photos smack dab in the middle of the crime scene, while the victims were still there? 6 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Tatsujin Posted October 12, 2014 Popular Post Share Posted October 12, 2014 the weird thing in this case is the fact that Thai police have claimed they base their case on witness statements and cctv footage but no mention of the DNA match If a sample of the DNA evidence originally obtained from the crime scene cannot be provided by the Thai police for independent testing then this case is far from solved - it has already been pointed out by the head of forensics in Bangkok that his team (which should have been involved from the start) had seemingly no involvement So who is holding the DNA from the victim ? and why is it not being made available to defence lawyers If the DNA doesn't match then there is no case If Thai police won't provide samples of the DNA for independent testing - why not ? They previously stated that the DNA testing was done in Bangkok and Chiang Mai, no mention of Singapore for a while now . . . with the RTP however, I wouldn't trust or assume that that DNA they have as reference isn't already compromised/changed however . . . 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post balo Posted October 12, 2014 Popular Post Share Posted October 12, 2014 (edited) This is really good news. It would end all the speculations if UK test the DNA from everyone involved. If the Burmese really did it , it would probably come as a shock for the rest of the world and clear RTP . So if RTP really wants to clear their name this is the only way. If they refuse , well this could very well be a coverup. Edited October 12, 2014 by balo 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JLCrab Posted October 12, 2014 Share Posted October 12, 2014 To post #25: That's because the crime occurred in Thailand -- not in Myanmar or UK. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post phuketandsee Posted October 12, 2014 Popular Post Share Posted October 12, 2014 A Boycott KT FB page has been set up: https://www.facebook.com/pages/Boycott-Koh-Tao-until-justice-for-David-and-Hannah-is-done/515148018620672 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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