Metropolitan police chief suspends project to catch traffic bribers

[outsider]

More bumbling antics from this bunch of morons.

[MediaWatcher]

deecee10, on 13 Oct 2014 - 11:09, said:

Just another day at the Keystone Cops show.

I tend to agree, but there is a slight difference, the Keystone cops were meant to be comical and meant to be taken as comical, the RTP are comical but they expect us to take them seriously.

[SiggiCM]

Thai people should make their own organization that offers rewards for cops demanding bribes. Then give the people who catch the police rewards. I think it's a MUCH better idea.

you are not up to date, they allready didi it, 20000 baht for catching a cop taking bribe, you need foto a a movie record

[Mot Dang]

What logic led deputy Metropolitan police chief Poj Maj Gen Adul Narongsak to initiate this campaign ? Offering this "reward" I am sure led to possible incidents of entrapment. Dear Khun Adul, it is their job to report bribery, they already get paid to do that. If it's not in their Job Description get it put in and reinforce it by formal training.

[pendingo]

Police corruption in Thailand is just the tip of the iceberg and this present debacle over the Koh Tao murder investigation together with rewarding police officers with 10000 THB for catching people who use bribery to avoid prosecution only serve to highlight it.

Here is a link which some of you may find of interest: http://www.humanrights.asia/resources/journals-magazines/article2/0901/07fighting-corruption-from-the-bottom-the-case-of-thailand.

Take a look at section 4. Highway bribery under the sub heading Corruption Types.

This was written before the coup but I believe post coup corruption is still alive and well in Thailand despite the Junta's efforts.

[empireboy]

A sensible move to stop the certain exploitation!

[DamienG]

What an absolute joke, it just gets more ridiculous each day. The Keystone Cops were outstanding compared to this lot.

[hawker9000]

This is simply because the idea of this scheme would have worked and it would have deprived thousands of police tea money. I will explain.

This is actually the only way to stop tea money on the roads. OK, every police officer assigned to a traffic location is made to wear a pen or helmet camera. If the officer can catch or record money being handed over by the motorist, the motorist is arrested and fined 1000 baht back at the station. The police officer is then rewarded 50% and 500 baht goes to him. With the level of intelligence the police force throughout the kingdom will be thrilled at the idea. Daily these officers will be pictured with a 500 baht note along with a great big smile on his face. On the other side of the coin if a motorist can show he has given the officer money and was not arrested for it and the footage proves this, the officer gets a 1000 baht fine and this is given to the motorist.

Then within 3 months after the general public get to grips with the fact that it is now futile to hand over money along with the power of social media and the press, people will completely stop giving it to them. The average motorist will come to terms with the fact he must go the police station and pay the traffic offense fine. All of a sudden no one is getting caught on camera anymore; the smiles on their faces will turn to grimaces. Road corruption will be consigned to the history books.

Do you know how many CCTV "security" cameras in Thailand are found to not be working after a crime takes place that would've been caught by the camera? Can't be rocket science to figure out a way to disable one of these helmet- or pen cams you're talking about or render the recording useless. This scheme wouldn't last 10 minutes, though I'm SURE someone would LOVE LOVE LOVE to get the contract to supply them... Nothing to keep motorists from exercising a little ingenuity though.

The thing is - this POS (point-of-sale) means of settling traffic fines benefits both sides of the transaction. Traffic cops get the additional income they need to survive, and motorists get a "discount" on their fines (i.e., they pay less than they'd pay at the station). Of course there are some few that will be governed by their principles and refuse to offer the bribe, and some of the officers will stop drivers who've done nothing, but in the main, the scheme persists because both parties to the transaction are "happy" with it. Moreover, the practice is consistent with a broadly accepted culture of corruption. Trying to stamp out traffic fine bribes apart from all other corrupt practices taking place daily, is like trying to catch just the 11-in fish in a pond full of 9, 10, 12, 13 and 14-inch fish. Even if you should somehow succeed against all odds, what would be the point? Guaranteed there'll be 11-in fish in there again in just a week or so. To succeed in the long term, you'd have to empty ALL the fish out of the pond, PERMANENTLY, and NOBODY who's been eating the fish is going to like THAT idea much.

[GAZZPA]

You just could not make this up could you.

They implement a scheme that a complete ignoramus cold see is fatally flawed and does nothing to stem Police corruption. Now we have the big cheese saying he didn't know what the little cheese was doing and trashes him in the press. Don't these people know how to use a telephone? Perhaps they even sit in the same building close to each other, total imbeciles.

But what really gets me is no one can see the real solution (or more likely they don't want to see). You cannot punish the public and potentially entrap them for bribing a police officer and expect it to resolve corruption. There could be no bribing if the police were not corrupt. So the solution sits with the police themselves. They have to stamp it out form within, punish the police officers who are caught and create a completely independent body to monitor and investigate.

I am sure this is obvious to all on this forum, amazing it is not so obvious to the big wigs,, perhaps thats the real reason why it is called amazing Thailand, because everyone is amazed at how stupid the people in authority are.

[gyrosman]

They couldn't print the 10,000 baht bills fast enough to give to the oficers so they could give it back to the village. The line of the locals offering brides (100 baht) was blocking traffic in front of the collection window ( 10,000 baht) of the police station.

[wilcopops]

I think the point about the impracticalities and obvious flaws in this plan were already pointed out on a previous thread quite frankly it is so glaringly obvious it hardly needs to be repeated.

.....to me the main issue now is how the plane is scrapped and how the police explain how such a daft idea became to be mooted in the first place.

Edited October 13, 2014 by wilcopops

[realenglish1]

Why am I not surprised

[jamiesilver]

obviously they realized they would need to pay a lot of money to the officers sine 99% of them live on bribes and arrests and court cases will take weeks/months/years to process with more admin.

Now time to try a new idea!

Raise the police salaries. and educate them better. any officer accepting bribes will be fired.... really that hard?

[givenall]

As expected. The boys in brown will all want an exponential raise in salary. Catching two bad bribing motorists a day sounds fair enough... 20k wouldn't be too much. would it?

May be bosses didn't like their people make more money than themselves. 20k per bribe can add up pretty quick.

[glcdc]

Smart..everyone wins in the current system..except the mothers with baby in baby seat innocently driving..but they shouldnt be on the road anyway its a jungle out there.

[jollyhangmon]

Sriwara said the campaign violated the people's rights and he would demand deputy Metropolitan police chief Poj Maj Gen Adul Narongsak, who initiated the campaign, to explain his reason behind the campaign.

I feel sorry for Maj Gen Adul, imagine the loss of face, must be heartbreaking for him. lol

... not that bad with his face and the likes, after all it was just a bit of miscalculation budgetwise:

the suspension of the scheme was due to a budget shortage, adding that only Bt100,000 was allocated for it

So no problem really, not his fault the 100 Grand were gone in somewhat about 7 minutes, just too many drivers out there with bad attitude ...

And yes, whoever came up with calculation of said 'scheme' will be hired straight as rocket-scientist, i'm pretty positive!

[Equalizer]

I think the point about the impracticalities and obvious flaws in this plan were already pointed out on a previous thread quite frankly it is so glaringly obvious it hardly needs to be repeated.

.....to me the main issue now is how the plane is scrapped and how the police explain how such a daft idea became to be mooted in the first place.

You obviously do not understand how to resolve solutions, maybe putting round pegs in square holes.

This is simply because the idea of this scheme would have worked and it would have deprived thousands of police tea money. I will explain.

This is actually the only way to stop tea money on the roads. OK, every police officer assigned to a traffic location is made to wear a pen or helmet camera. If the officer can catch or record money being handed over by the motorist, the motorist is arrested and fined 1000 baht back at the station. The police officer is then rewarded 50% and 500 baht goes to him. With the level of intelligence the police force throughout the kingdom will be thrilled at the idea. Daily these officers will be pictured with a 500 baht note along with a great big smile on his face. On the other side of the coin if a motorist can show he has given the officer money and was not arrested for it and the footage proves this, the officer gets a 1000 baht fine and this is given to the motorist.

Then within 3 months after the general public get to grips with the fact that it is now futile to hand over money along with the power of social media and the press, people will completely stop giving it to them. The average motorist will come to terms with the fact he must go the police station and pay the traffic offense fine. All of a sudden no one is getting caught on camera anymore; the smiles on their faces will turn to grimaces. Road corruption will be consigned to the history books.

[SteveFong]

This confused me from the start as I thought the Thai police were the one's demanding bribes for traffic offenses?

I know a girl who was pulled over, charged 1,000 baht, and the next day the same cop pulled her over and asked for her phone number so they could have "coffee"

I believe her mafia connections were stronger than his, and she said that was the last time she was pulled over

[Wombat6]

Acting city police chief opposes 10,000 baht incentive for catching police bribers

BANGKOK: -- Acting commissioner of metropolitan police bureau Pol Maj-Gen Srivara Rangsipromnakul is opposed to a police project to award 10,000 baht incentive each to any policemen who manage to capture traffic violators in the act of bribing or attempting to bribe the officers.

He said that he found the incentive and the police use of spy cameras in order to catch the violators in the act of bribing or attempting to bribe a waste of money and a violation of the people’s right.

The project is the brainchild of Pol Maj-Gen Adul Narongsak, deputy commissioner of metropolitan police bureau in charge of traffic affairs.

Pol Maj-Gen Srivara said he would seek clarification about the project from Adul and expected an answer soon.

Personally, he said the project should be scrapped.

Source: http://englishnews.thaipbs.or.th/acting-city-police-chief-opposes-10000-baht-incentive-catching-police-bribers/

-- Thai PBS 2014-10-12

[Equalizer]

This is simply because the idea of this scheme would have worked and it would have deprived thousands of police tea money. I will explain.

This is actually the only way to stop tea money on the roads. OK, every police officer assigned to a traffic location is made to wear a pen or helmet camera. If the officer can catch or record money being handed over by the motorist, the motorist is arrested and fined 1000 baht back at the station. The police officer is then rewarded 50% and 500 baht goes to him. With the level of intelligence the police force throughout the kingdom will be thrilled at the idea. Daily these officers will be pictured with a 500 baht note along with a great big smile on his face. On the other side of the coin if a motorist can show he has given the officer money and was not arrested for it and the footage proves this, the officer gets a 1000 baht fine and this is given to the motorist.

Then within 3 months after the general public get to grips with the fact that it is now futile to hand over money along with the power of social media and the press, people will completely stop giving it to them. The average motorist will come to terms with the fact he must go the police station and pay the traffic offense fine. All of a sudden no one is getting caught on camera anymore; the smiles on their faces will turn to grimaces. Road corruption will be consigned to the history books.

Do you know how many CCTV "security" cameras in Thailand are found to not be working after a crime takes place that would've been caught by the camera? Can't be rocket science to figure out a way to disable one of these helmet- or pen cams you're talking about or render the recording useless. This scheme wouldn't last 10 minutes, though I'm SURE someone would LOVE LOVE LOVE to get the contract to supply them... Nothing to keep motorists from exercising a little ingenuity though.

The thing is - this POS (point-of-sale) means of settling traffic fines benefits both sides of the transaction. Traffic cops get the additional income they need to survive, and motorists get a "discount" on their fines (i.e., they pay less than they'd pay at the station). Of course there are some few that will be governed by their principles and refuse to offer the bribe, and some of the officers will stop drivers who've done nothing, but in the main, the scheme persists because both parties to the transaction are "happy" with it. Moreover, the practice is consistent with a broadly accepted culture of corruption. Trying to stamp out traffic fine bribes apart from all other corrupt practices taking place daily, is like trying to catch just the 11-in fish in a pond full of 9, 10, 12, 13 and 14-inch fish. Even if you should somehow succeed against all odds, what would be the point? Guaranteed there'll be 11-in fish in there again in just a week or so. To succeed in the long term, you'd have to empty ALL the fish out of the pond, PERMANENTLY, and NOBODY who's been eating the fish is going to like THAT idea much.

I am not saying i would not be happy to pay the fine, quite the contrary. The fact is, irrespective of us liking the system or not it is corruption. There is the technology today cheap enough to rig helmets to a main control desk, not rocket science. How many police road blocks are there in one day say in Pattaya. 20 at most and this is conservative. The point is what i am saying would work this i have no doubt and this is why it has been scrapped. If you as a driver are going to get arrested and fined for paying tea money you will stop paying it. End of story.

[Wombat6]

peoples rights ??? I thought the people of Thailand deserve a Police force that is not corrupt, and this project was a step in the right direction. Perhaps this guy could see that his investment in buying his position could not supply the anticipated income he expected from bribes if this project proceeded. The NACC should have a look at this guys Assets and how he accumulated them

[biplanebluey]

Thai people should make their own organization that offers rewards for cops demanding bribes. Then give the people who catch the police rewards. I think it's a MUCH better idea.

Now don't be silly.

If catching people bribing the police is "against people's rights"

I'm sure, catching police taking bribes is "against people's rights" too

(I wanted to say "against police's rights" but just realised, occasionally they are people too)

Basically offering or asking and accepting a bribe it's illegal on paper

but should anyone report on corruption, that's "against Peoples rights"

Now I am totally confused-------- But the whole circus is a bloody good laugh !!!!!!!

[Stokakrishna]

they run out of prize money...

[wilcopops]

I think the point about the impracticalities and obvious flaws in this plan were already pointed out on a previous thread quite frankly it is so glaringly obvious it hardly needs to be repeated.

.....to me the main issue now is how the plane is scrapped and how the police explain how such a daft idea became to be mooted in the first place.

You obviously do not understand how to resolve solutions, maybe putting round pegs in square holes.

This is simply because the idea of this scheme would have worked and it would have deprived thousands of police tea money. I will explain.

This is actually the only way to stop tea money on the roads. OK, every police officer assigned to a traffic location is made to wear a pen or helmet camera. If the officer can catch or record money being handed over by the motorist, the motorist is arrested and fined 1000 baht back at the station. The police officer is then rewarded 50% and 500 baht goes to him. With the level of intelligence the police force throughout the kingdom will be thrilled at the idea. Daily these officers will be pictured with a 500 baht note along with a great big smile on his face. On the other side of the coin if a motorist can show he has given the officer money and was not arrested for it and the footage proves this, the officer gets a 1000 baht fine and this is given to the motorist.

Then within 3 months after the general public get to grips with the fact that it is now futile to hand over money along with the power of social media and the press, people will completely stop giving it to them. The average motorist will come to terms with the fact he must go the police station and pay the traffic offense fine. All of a sudden no one is getting caught on camera anymore; the smiles on their faces will turn to grimaces. Road corruption will be consigned to the history books.

As I said the points have been made...and they seem to have passed you by?...what a waste of time.

[mango66]

Very clear !

if every one would announce the bribe,

he will loose his share on the bribe !

Clever guy !!

[ScotBkk]

Why change the wheel. Saves a fortune on insurance/tax or any other BS they happen across ...... I'm nigh on sure his other 4 passengers on his scooter won't be complaining anytime soon .....

Just saying .....

Edited October 13, 2014 by ScotBkk

[kimamey]

At what point do they get embarrassed with their own behavior?

I don't know we're still waiting for it to happen.

To be fair I've never been asked for money by the police. Perhaps I look too honest.

[whaleboneman]

Everyone is going through changes

No one knows what's going on.

And everybody changes places-

But the world still carries on.

Alan Price?

[whaleboneman]

I think the point about the impracticalities and obvious flaws in this plan were already pointed out on a previous thread quite frankly it is so glaringly obvious it hardly needs to be repeated.

.....to me the main issue now is how the plane is scrapped and how the police explain how such a daft idea became to be mooted in the first place.

You obviously do not understand how to resolve solutions, maybe putting round pegs in square holes.

This is simply because the idea of this scheme would have worked and it would have deprived thousands of police tea money. I will explain.

This is actually the only way to stop tea money on the roads. OK, every police officer assigned to a traffic location is made to wear a pen or helmet camera. If the officer can catch or record money being handed over by the motorist, the motorist is arrested and fined 1000 baht back at the station. The police officer is then rewarded 50% and 500 baht goes to him. With the level of intelligence the police force throughout the kingdom will be thrilled at the idea. Daily these officers will be pictured with a 500 baht note along with a great big smile on his face. On the other side of the coin if a motorist can show he has given the officer money and was not arrested for it and the footage proves this, the officer gets a 1000 baht fine and this is given to the motorist.

Then within 3 months after the general public get to grips with the fact that it is now futile to hand over money along with the power of social media and the press, people will completely stop giving it to them. The average motorist will come to terms with the fact he must go the police station and pay the traffic offense fine. All of a sudden no one is getting caught on camera anymore; the smiles on their faces will turn to grimaces. Road corruption will be consigned to the history books.

You obviously don't understand that solutions are the resolve.

[marinpa]

The news should read something like this:

After some of his relatives, two of his best friends and the latest mistress called the acting Metropolitan Police chief Pol Maj Gen Sriwara Rangsipramkul to tell him they were charged with attempted bribery, hence facing severe jail time, he wowed (to them) he will stop the program. No cousins of Acting Metropolitan Police chief Pol Maj Gen Sriwara Rangsipramkul will go to jail for anything, much more less bribery, for bribery is one of the national weekend sports next to drinking and driving.