AIDS

[tourleadersi]

What about these HIV DIY kits you can get? The ones where you do a test at home. Has anyone had any experience of them? Just seen a few ads for them but nothing much else...

[kerryk]

I was at a Go Go about a year ago when the doctor came in and tested all the girls at the club. They told me it happened once a month and if you did not pass you did not work. Some clubs are once a month and some once every three months.

Most beer bars you are on your own as far as I know.

Last time I was on Sukhumvit there I observed walking with young Thai women, fat white guys, fat Arab guys, skinny Japanese guys, skinny Chinese guys, fat Indian guys, skinny Indian guys, muscled bald headed guys, young hippies, old hippies, Thai guys, fat white women, skinny white women, fat black guys, skinny black guys.

All of the Thai women I meet tell me Thai guys won’t wear condoms. The Thai women I meet also tell me that the Thai guys working in the male for male bars are mostly straight and have Thai girlfriends.

JRINGO, are you the same person who posted the story on Stickman about the church he turned into an orphanage for illegitimate children left over from the Vietnam war?

I guess I should make a blanket apology for my attitude but I am one of those people who is very skeptical of missionaries. I am sure some do good work but in general I think they cause more harm than good.

Edited July 25, 2006 by kerryk

[sbk]

Well, even on my small island we had people dying of AIDS 10 years ago. I have attended at least 10 funerals of people who have died of AIDS related illnesses. It pretty much peaked here about 5 years ago but still continues to this day. Someone I know quite well has just informed their family that they have AIDS. It is no surprise as her ex-husband died of it about 2 years ago. She assumes she is going to die and leave her 11 year old son an orphan.

And no, she is not a sex worker.

[girlx]

Well, even on my small island we had people dying of AIDS 10 years ago.

this is not surprising in the least on koh phangan, there is a thriving local sex for sale scene. i would agree that 95% or so of thai men visit them.

[a2396]

I would say everyone who can read knows the risks here and in other parts of the world regarding unprotected sex. I can not understand why testing of couples wishing to marry is not required. Most of the people (ladies) I know here do not discuss the topic (HIV). It would seem that ignorance is bliss to them. Unfortunately, this seems to be a very repressive society here concerning the discussion of any matters of a sexual nature. It is quite absurd and double standard given the magnitude of the sex industry in the country.

[britmaveric]

Simple protect yourself use a condom lads and insist on use ladies - anything else is suicide.

[leftcross]

JRingo - how many of these girls were prostitutes and wealthy multiple-bungalow owning, Mercedes-driving, doctor-outearning socialites from PatPong?

well played sing_sling

[Ling Kae]

I would say everyone who can read knows the risks here and in other parts of the world regarding unprotected sex. I can not understand why testing of couples wishing to marry is not required. Most of the people (ladies) I know here do not discuss the topic (HIV). It would seem that ignorance is bliss to them. Unfortunately, this seems to be a very repressive society here concerning the discussion of any matters of a sexual nature. It is quite absurd and double standard given the magnitude of the sex industry in the country.

You are absolutely correct, thankyou for outlining that. Ignorance, little or no education on the matter, taboo subject read "it doesn't happen here, not speak", mia nois that nobody knows about (but they all do), "can not speak danger for me" attitude, a country in denial maybe?

[Johpa]

Thank you for your condolences.

I have kept some of this stuff bottled up in me for 20 years.

I just deal with tragedy after tragedy up north on a routine basis.

However, what has changed is that I have had to go to Bangkok to conduct some

business every few months and to tell you the truth I was absolutely shocked.

I have been staying at hotels on Sukhumvit and honestly I have never been there

before.

Wave after wave after teenage farmgirls with fat white sex tourists.

It’s apparent where my misery is coming from and the absolute disaster of normal

family life up North.

It has been going on a long time, I just never saw it first hand.

It really is a crime against humanity and I feel like talking about it.

I would like to thank the moderators of Thai Visa for letting my threads go for so

long.

I don’t know, maybe will someone will …maybe something will….change???

As one who had maintained a home in a rural area just outside Chiang Mai City, I would have to note that the death rate due to AIDS has dropped significantly in the past several years. What JR experienced was all too common in these areas. I estimate, after a long talk with our kamnaan that my local tambon lost 5% of its population due to AIDS over a 10 year period. Back in the early 1990s there was an AIDS related funeral every week within the tambon or in the adjacent villages of a neighboring tambon. I lost relatives, close friends, and countless acquaintances, men, women, and children. Only a few worked in the sex industry and fewer still worked in the Farang oriented sex tourist industry. Most were ordinary people, and most commonly the women contracted AIDS from their husbands who must have had unprotected sex with a Thai sex worker or shared a needle. Currently my wife's best friend, a life long pre-school teacher in the hill villages working for the Social Welfare department, acquired AIDS from her sole sexual partner in life, her philandering policeman husband. The rural police force in Chiang Mai is one of the unacknowledged vectors for AIDS up north.

There are plenty of reasons to condone the tourist sex industry in Thailand. But it was the local sex industry, not the Farang sex industry, that was a far more closely linked vector to the AIDS epidemic that scoured the north during the 1990s and continues to be part of northern rural Thai reality. But I can certainly relate to JR's pain and anguish in a way that you neo-sahib posters, with your heads always buried in the sands, are not yet capable of doing.

AIDS still kills

So don't be silly

Slip that condom

On your willy

[kerryk]

A short history lesson for those who don’t know. Britain started the opium trade in Asia to make money for India.

The Indian opium got too expensive so it was grown in Burma.

The transportation of opium got burdensome so it was refined to heroin.

The transport of opium and heroin took place in Chiang Mai and Chiang Rai provinces and was supported at various times by the French, British and Americans to name just a few.

Chiang Mai had a large brothel area that catered strictly to Thais that the government closed down a few years ago.

Heroin usage is still wide spread in Chiang Mai and Chiang Rai provinces.

The majority of Aids related diseases can be traced to dirty needles and local Thai prostitution.

I find it offensive that the OP suggested that the fat white guys in Nana had much to do with it.

I also find it offensive that he would choose Thai Visa to rant on when it is obvious that the great majority of members here are married and not actively involved in any drugs or naughty night life.

[JimsKnight]

I knew some girls that died of Aids, and they were certainly HIV positive long before they got too sick to work.

I will never understand why so many men put their lives at risk when they go to Thailand as sex tourists.

Looking at the average male tourist in Pattaya, I understand it would be near impossible for them to attract a sex partner without paying, but even then, is it worth the risk?

The phrase " I'm dying for a shag " takes on a whole new meaning.

Well if everybody realised that there is a risk of catching HIV by going down on the woman, 'back door ramming' without a condom and rimming etc then there would be considerably less people contracting HIV. The sex education needs to educate kids in Thailand better (ie making it known all the ways to contract HIV).

But here in the UK attitudes are poor too among my peers at work. At lunch yesterday one of them was telling a joke about how a buddy of his gave oral sex to a girl who was 'on red/period mode' he laughed how he appeared with a red mouth etc. This idiot then said to me if I did that sort of thing. I replied that you have no idea how dangerous that sort of thing was. They were stunned to silence when I had to explain how you can catch HIV to them! What ignorance they had! 'Its part of growing up'. Was his meek reply! These were guys who were 25 - 50 years old!

All you ass-rammers and rimmers and cunninglingus' be aware!

[Griffin]

I read in the Bangkok Post recently that differnet strains of HIV/AIDS had been detected in Thailand. I guess it's like Hepatitis A B C etc. The newest form is the aggresive (it'll kill you in months not years) E strain. This is known as the AFRICAN strain.

I would not touch a BG that had anything to do with Africans.

Maybe the increase in Afican 'tourists' has something to do with this?

HIV/AIDS the African contribution?

[kerryk]

I read in the Bangkok Post recently that differnet strains of HIV/AIDS had been detected in Thailand. I guess it's like Hepatitis A B C etc. The newest form is the aggresive (it'll kill you in months not years) E strain. This is known as the AFRICAN strain.

I would not touch a BG that had anything to do with Africans.

Maybe the increase in Afican 'tourists' has something to do with this?

HIV/AIDS the African contribution?

Dr Thawat Suntharachan, the director-general of the Department of Disease Control (DDC), yesterday said a female patient infected with a mixed strain of HIV was being treated at Siriraj Hospital.

The doctor was quoted by the Thai News Agency as saying the patient was found to have a virus strain mixed between the A/E and C sub-types, which had never been reported here before. "The former sub-type is most common in Thailand whereas the latter has only been found in Africa," Thawat said. "Don't panic. Whether it exists or not, it's not going to make any significant change," said Professor Prasert Thongcharoen, the leading virologist at Siriraj Hospital.

As long as people go to Africa and people from Africa come to Thailand, it's no surprise for someone to have caught the disease, he said.

"Even though we have found just one case of a mixture of A/E and C sub-types, it is a sign of the virus mutating . . . and we need to keep a close eye on this issue," he said.

[kasi]

The vast majority of Thai women who get HIV get it from their bisexual and/or iv drug using boyfriends.

It's really disingenuous for the NGO missionaries to suggest otherwise.

They love to demonize the farang sex tourist.

It is a significant problem in Thailand and due caution and condom use should be always considered mandatory.

[opothai]

i've read about the mutating aids virus and it is called the 'super aids'

contracted easier and kills quickly.

as we all know africa has the worst aids outbreak of any country, if this gets into the thai sex industry and mutates as is happening, then thailands aids problem could again escallate to the height of the 90's.

then how do you stop a super virus in a country that the male population insist on no condom.

then this problem spreads to another country from the sex tourists whom, also like no condom.

i believe in the not to distant future any person travelling from a highly contaminated country will have to be tested before entry into another country, [ at thier own expense].

manogamy sounds nice these days

[JRingo]

There are plenty of reasons to condemn (jr) the tourist sex industry in Thailand. But it was the local sex industry, not the Farang sex industry, that was a far more closely linked vector to the AIDS epidemic that scoured the north during the 1990s and continues to be part of northern rural Thai reality. But I can certainly relate to JR's pain and anguish in a way that you neo-sahib posters, with your heads always buried in the sands, are not yet capable of doing.

Yes, absolutely.

I have a very strong opinion of the "local sex industry", but I will keep it to myself as I am not Thai.

I am a falang and have a right to point my finger if I want to at other falangs.

In my opinion the "local" and the "falang" sex industires are not totally unrelated.

I believe when bargirls working for falangs get sick they go back to their villages and have sex there with unsuspecting locals.

You should keep in mind how horny and lonely the local men are, as a good percentage of the pretty female population has been taken away from them and employed in the sex trade.

When a pretty one comes back and becomes available again, it's party time.

Until they die of course.

JR

[JRingo]

There are plenty of reasons to condemn (jr) the tourist sex industry in Thailand. But it was the local sex industry, not the Farang sex industry, that was a far more closely linked vector to the AIDS epidemic that scoured the north during the 1990s and continues to be part of northern rural Thai reality. But I can certainly relate to JR's pain and anguish in a way that you neo-sahib posters, with your heads always buried in the sands, are not yet capable of doing.

Yes, absolutely.

I have a very strong opinion of the "local sex industry", but I will keep it to myself as I am not Thai.

I am a falang and have a right to point my finger if I want to at other falangs.

In my opinion the "local" and the "falang" sex industires are not totally unrelated.

I believe when bargirls working for falangs get sick they go back to their villages and have sex there with unsuspecting locals.

You should keep in mind how horny and lonely the local men are, as a good percentage of the pretty female population has been taken away from them and employed in the sex trade.

When a pretty one comes back and becomes available again, it's party time.

Until they die of course.

JR

PS...Most of the people I have known who have died of AIDS in the north were not drug users.

It was simply unprotected sex with bargirls or spouses who had been with bargirls.

There are many ways to contract AIDS, some of them easier than others but there is no doubt that heterosexual sex with infected bargirls can cause AIDS.

[chuchok]

There are plenty of reasons to condemn (jr) the tourist sex industry in Thailand. But it was the local sex industry, not the Farang sex industry, that was a far more closely linked vector to the AIDS epidemic that scoured the north during the 1990s and continues to be part of northern rural Thai reality. But I can certainly relate to JR's pain and anguish in a way that you neo-sahib posters, with your heads always buried in the sands, are not yet capable of doing.

Yes, absolutely.

I have a very strong opinion of the "local sex industry", but I will keep it to myself as I am not Thai.

I am a falang and have a right to point my finger if I want to at other falangs.

In my opinion the "local" and the "falang" sex industires are not totally unrelated.

I believe when bargirls working for falangs get sick they go back to their villages and have sex there with unsuspecting locals.You should keep in mind how horny and lonely the local men are, as a good percentage of the pretty female population has been taken away from them and employed in the sex trade.

When a pretty one comes back and becomes available again, it's party time.

Until they die of course.

JR

You are unbeievable....

[JRingo]

You are unbeievable....

What do mean by that?

I have never been called that before.

[Johpa]

PS...Most of the people I have known who have died of AIDS in the north were not drug users.

It was simply unprotected sex with bargirls or spouses who had been with bargirls.

You might be surprised how many ordinary rural Thai men up north, who are by no means addicts or regular drug users, will casually share a needle on the rare occasion when on a party binge (pai tiow) with the lads.

[Noel]

There are plenty of reasons to condemn (jr) the tourist sex industry in Thailand. But it was the local sex industry, not the Farang sex industry, that was a far more closely linked vector to the AIDS epidemic that scoured the north during the 1990s and continues to be part of northern rural Thai reality. But I can certainly relate to JR's pain and anguish in a way that you neo-sahib posters, with your heads always buried in the sands, are not yet capable of doing.

Yes, absolutely.

I have a very strong opinion of the "local sex industry", but I will keep it to myself as I am not Thai.

I am a falang and have a right to point my finger if I want to at other falangs.

In my opinion the "local" and the "falang" sex industires are not totally unrelated.

I believe when bargirls working for falangs get sick they go back to their villages and have sex there with unsuspecting locals.

You should keep in mind how horny and lonely the local men are, as a good percentage of the pretty female population has been taken away from them and employed in the sex trade.

When a pretty one comes back and becomes available again, it's party time.

Until they die of course.

JR

I find your 'blame the farang' tunnel vision mentality quite amazing.

Moreover, just because you are not Thai does not prohibit you from airing your "strong opinions" about the "local sex industry".

It appears rather likely that you have never seen the state a girl who is so sick that she needs to go back to her village.

Her condition would be obvious to all; it is also not outside the realms of possibility that she would not be welcomed back or could even be shunned by her family and villagers alike.

You also seem unwilling to acknowledge the fact that there is a very strong probability that such unfortunate girls were infected in their village prior to leaving in the first place.

Whilst I can empathise with your burden from past experiences, your focus on farang as being a major cause is IMHO misplaced.

[kerryk]

You are unbeievable....

What do mean by that?

I have never been called that before.

I can’t speak for chuchok but I also think you are unbelievable. The Thai men that I know all started going to Thai brothels at a very young age and were anything but horny. I was always envious of their easy morals and relaxed attitude about sexual encounters.

Aids in Thailand is a problem with Thai men and Thai brothels and intravenous drug use. All of the information both statistical and anecdotal suggests this.

I think you are way off base to suggest it is a problem with sex tourism.

If you stopped the foreign sex trade today it would have little or no impact on Aids in Thailand. As a matter of fact it would probably raise the incidence of HIV + by increasing the supply of women to local brothels and lowering the price making them more available to local Thai men who don‘t use condoms.

[Heng]

Actually, it seems that most women involved in western sex tourism are the leftovers and veterans of the local sex industry (when you're "over the hill" for locals or simply old stock -even at a young age-). So it's not really an either/or situation. It's a business -sex industry period, not western or local- whose practitioners and patrons often engage in unsafe sex, whether it's right away or after some trust is established, and often well before anyone is tested for HIV antibodies.

[a2396]

Actually, it seems that most women involved in western sex tourism are the leftovers and veterans of the local sex industry (when you're "over the hill" for locals or simply old stock -even at a young age-). So it's not really an either/or situation. It's a business -sex industry period, not western or local- whose practitioners and patrons often engage in unsafe sex, whether it's right away or after some trust is established, and often well before anyone is tested for HIV antibodies.

You have some interesting points. I have wondered myself about the age distribution of the ladies involved in this work. My guess is that they start out rather young and are available mostly to Thais and then "graduate" to the Farang market, when they are over the hill at 23-25 or so. Anyone care to comment on this? What age do they start?

[Ijustwannateach]

It's really quite appalling that people are referring to the AIDS problem in the context of prostitution. AIDS is a health issue, not a prostitution issue. If all prostitution were eliminated, everywhere, AIDS would still be spreading like wildfire. AIDS exists in many parts of the world and in many areas where virtually no one is a prostitute or hires prostitutes.

It's quite unfair both to the sex workers and their customers to make a problem as big as AIDS their responsibility. It's everyone's problem who has blood.

It seems to me though, that there's a prurient interest in talking about prostitutes on this thread (rather than AIDS).

"Steven"

[britmaveric]

Teach - couldnt have said it better mate.

[Heng]

Actually, it seems that most women involved in western sex tourism are the leftovers and veterans of the local sex industry (when you're "over the hill" for locals or simply old stock -even at a young age-). So it's not really an either/or situation. It's a business -sex industry period, not western or local- whose practitioners and patrons often engage in unsafe sex, whether it's right away or after some trust is established, and often well before anyone is tested for HIV antibodies.

You have some interesting points. I have wondered myself about the age distribution of the ladies involved in this work. My guess is that they start out rather young and are available mostly to Thais and then "graduate" to the Farang market, when they are over the hill at 23-25 or so. Anyone care to comment on this? What age do they start?

I think it's not just an age issue, but also the old stock issue (a gal might only work a few months or a year in the Thai sector if she wasn't the usual type that locals tend to prefer). I doubt there are any real stats, but since it's supposedly illegal anyway, there are probably a good number that start when they of an illegal age.

[libya 115]

There are plenty of reasons to condemn (jr) the tourist sex industry in Thailand. But it was the local sex industry, not the Farang sex industry, that was a far more closely linked vector to the AIDS epidemic that scoured the north during the 1990s and continues to be part of northern rural Thai reality. But I can certainly relate to JR's pain and anguish in a way that you neo-sahib posters, with your heads always buried in the sands, are not yet capable of doing.

Yes, absolutely.

I have a very strong opinion of the "local sex industry", but I will keep it to myself as I am not Thai.

I am a falang and have a right to point my finger if I want to at other falangs.

In my opinion the "local" and the "falang" sex industires are not totally unrelated.

I believe when bargirls working for falangs get sick they go back to their villages and have sex there with unsuspecting locals.

You should keep in mind how horny and lonely the local men are, as a good percentage of the pretty female population has been taken away from them and employed in the sex trade.

When a pretty one comes back and becomes available again, it's party time.

Until they die of course.

JR

PS...Most of the people I have known who have died of AIDS in the north were not drug users.

It was simply unprotected sex with bargirls or spouses who had been with bargirls.

There are many ways to contract AIDS, some of them easier than others but there is no doubt that heterosexual sex with infected bargirls can cause AIDS.

JRINGO

I have been reading your vitriolic rants for days now. Of course they are within the rights and freedom of the forum and often prevoke a hefty response.

Bargirls, pimps, prostitution, AIDS: it is all there: you consider yourself the one and only knowledge on all matters. Good. Take an interest. However you are overbearingly egotistical in your glib comments. Patience is wearing thin. AIDS is a serious subject.

You claim in your previous post to have had 'four Thai wives. (3 ex-bargirls). You claim to be on good terms with your first ex-wife for 25 years although the marriage lasted only 5 years. Then you also claim that you 'have not touched a bargirl for 15 years'.

You claim to be American (U.S.A.?).

Where has this sudden flood of moral indignation come from? Are you 'born again'? Are you a 'Mormon'?

What is your continued interest in Thailand? From recent post you appear to have an extended interest in ladymen. Good for you! are you are repressed homosexual with a hang-up on attractive bar-girls? Let us hear the full truth!

You are a mystery to me. However be honest in your future posts, that is all I, and probably other T.V. members request.

I bear no malice.

[Johpa]

Actually, it seems that most women involved in western sex tourism are the leftovers and veterans of the local sex industry (when you're "over the hill" for locals or simply old stock -even at a young age-).

Yes, for some who started very young, in the Sino-Thai tea houses where age 16 is considered too old and too threatening, such women may be seen by the indigenous pedophiles as leftovers and pehaps veterans. But many more enter the trade after the age of 16 or above and thus bypass those who belive that having one-way sex, basically masturbating into the body of a child, with a 13 year old girl bestows medicinal benefits.

[JRingo]

There are plenty of reasons to condemn (jr) the tourist sex industry in Thailand. But it was the local sex industry, not the Farang sex industry, that was a far more closely linked vector to the AIDS epidemic that scoured the north during the 1990s and continues to be part of northern rural Thai reality. But I can certainly relate to JR's pain and anguish in a way that you neo-sahib posters, with your heads always buried in the sands, are not yet capable of doing.

Yes, absolutely.

I have a very strong opinion of the "local sex industry", but I will keep it to myself as I am not Thai.

I am a falang and have a right to point my finger if I want to at other falangs.

In my opinion the "local" and the "falang" sex industires are not totally unrelated.

I believe when bargirls working for falangs get sick they go back to their villages and have sex there with unsuspecting locals.

You should keep in mind how horny and lonely the local men are, as a good percentage of the pretty female population has been taken away from them and employed in the sex trade.

When a pretty one comes back and becomes available again, it's party time.

Until they die of course.

JR

PS...Most of the people I have known who have died of AIDS in the north were not drug users.

It was simply unprotected sex with bargirls or spouses who had been with bargirls.

There are many ways to contract AIDS, some of them easier than others but there is no doubt that heterosexual sex with infected bargirls can cause AIDS.

JRINGO

I have been reading your vitriolic rants for days now. Of course they are within the rights and freedom of the forum and often prevoke a hefty response.

Bargirls, pimps, prostitution, AIDS: it is all there: you consider yourself the one and only knowledge on all matters. Good. Take an interest. However you are overbearingly egotistical in your glib comments. Patience is wearing thin. AIDS is a serious subject.

You claim in your previous post to have had 'four Thai wives. (3 ex-bargirls). You claim to be on good terms with your first ex-wife for 25 years although the marriage lasted only 5 years. Then you also claim that you 'have not touched a bargirl for 15 years'.

You claim to be American (U.S.A.?).

Where has this sudden flood of moral indignation come from? Are you 'born again'? Are you a 'Mormon'?

What is your continued interest in Thailand? From recent post you appear to have an extended interest in ladymen. Good for you! are you are repressed homosexual with a hang-up on attractive bar-girls? Let us hear the full truth!

You are a mystery to me. However be honest in your future posts, that is all I, and probably other T.V. members request.

I bear no malice.

So your question is?

Am I a Mormon?

No.

Any other questions?