Britain summons Thai envoy over Koh Tao tourist murder probe

[catweazle]

The Brits did not get far with Kirsty Jones murder in Chiang Mai. 14 years ago, still not solved.!

Is this the one, where the RTP caught some innocent Karen people who where miles away when the murder happened, DNA did not match and simply was not mentioned in court and where the RTP tried to jerk off one of the suspects to place the sperm inside the victim?

This story is quite something for the idiotic RTP lovers in this forum, exposing in grisly detail, what the corrupt cesspit of RTP is capable of... I hope they will be ratted out for good this time. With Gen PM Prayuth's public image being at stake and all, some heads will roll over this one...

[apetley]

Maybe Britain has "other" samples as well. Sean and maybe family members of Koh Tao

^{Britain now has DNA from Hannah and also the two innocents in jail.}

^{That is why they are now getting more involved.}

.

Possibly, Boris.

I don't know British law; when McAnna was convicted, did the police obtain a sample of his DNA?

It would have been a very simple matter to send someone to KT and surreptitiously obtain samples of Touch DNA at the AC Bar, from its owners. If I was the family, I would have hired someone to do this.

Both victims, unless scrubbed clean, also had a high probability of having lots of Touch DNA on their bodies.

And a hair or two from the Burmese, while being interviewed by their lawyers …. a pat on the knee is all it takes.

Only time will tell what might, or might not be, going on behind the scenes.

When you get convicted with any crime in the UK you get your DNA taken. That law came in a good few years ago (i think)

I'd hope McCanna, with been a child sec offender will have defiantly have had his taken

DNA is taken on arrest in the UK, you do not need to be convicted of any crime.

[englishoak]

Do the British have the bodies? If so, they should go ahead and do the DNA tests. Then they can collect DNA from the suspects and settle th meatier to everyone's satisfaction.

You can bet they have already done whatever testing they can.

[Docno]

Coming from a family of diplomats, the summoning of a foreign diplomat comes after much verbal and written communication. It is a strong sign of displeasure. The meeting may be cordial, polite and not really sound like much, but the message is received loud and clear - we're not happy, we don't trust what you're doing. It already means a 'losing of face' in diplomatic circles. Foreign diplomats are not formally called lightly, it means something.

Exactly - a lot of people are missing this here. I do a lot of work in the diplomatic service and I know the nature of the language used, etc. It's very different from how the rest of us communicate things... there's a whole protocol and 'culture' around it. For example, when the UK says that it's willing to help in the investigation, it's basically demanding to be involved while at the same time recognising the sovereignty of the other country (and thus its right to manage its own investigation). And as you said, summoning a foreign diplomat is a very big deal with very significant meaning...

[bruceybonus]

This must be starting to get expensive for the real perps. Palms at the top need to be greased even more now & that will not be cheap.

[northernjohn]

Not going to read this nonsense. I know and every one else capable of thinking knows that England is only showing concern because the media is putting the pressure on them.

they have no reason to disbelieve the situation as the Thai government has presented it to them but the press in it's endless quest to sell papers by printing negative news and many times baseless allegations and ignore positive things has put the pressure on them to the point where they had no choice.

[sweatalot]

As for your LIZ, well ya think if she made a phone call to her counter part or even the current PM could have a little impact on things? Not to sure that'll work either didn't fly for the Saudi's did it? diplomacy won't do much of anything here, just the threat of loss of MONEY, as they say money talks.

Show some intestinal fortitude and let the BIB know you mean business.

heavy UK tax for tourists going to Thailand (creating a budget for assistance in case of being a crime victim?)

[ingvar]

well said northernjohn

[bruceybonus]

Not going to read this nonsense. I know and every one else capable of thinking knows that England is only showing concern because the media is putting the pressure on them.

they have no reason to disbelieve the situation as the Thai government has presented it to them but the press in it's endless quest to sell papers by printing negative news and many times baseless allegations and ignore positive things has put the pressure on them to the point where they had no choice.

No reason to disbelieve!!!!!!??????? Are you for real??

[sweatalot]

Why does Britain wait till now ? The British Embassy and British government should have been in at the beginning . Britain had a right to insist on British police helping Thai police and for British Forensic scientists to simultaneously examine the evidence and test the DNA . In view of Two British people being horrifically murdered in Thailand , even the Coup Military Government should soften to permit a British participation from the beginning . A skilled British Forensic Police team could have worked alongside the Thai police and have been a great help to them , in what has been a very difficult task .

Britain nor any other country has no diplomatic right to intervene in the internal affairs of another country regardless of whether one of its citizens is either the victim or the alleged perpetrator of a crime.

The colonial attitude has yet to be laid to rest even with regards to countries that never were the unfortunate victims of often brutal British exploitation.

Why is it that the former colonies are way ahead of those 3rd world countries that have not been colonized (civilized) before?

[bruceybonus]

As for your LIZ, well ya think if she made a phone call to her counter part or even the current PM could have a little impact on things? Not to sure that'll work either didn't fly for the Saudi's did it? diplomacy won't do much of anything here, just the threat of loss of MONEY, as they say money talks.

Show some intestinal fortitude and let the BIB know you mean business.

heavy UK tax for tourists going to Thailand (creating a budget for assistance in case of being a crime victim?)

We should freeze all assets that Thais own in the UK, sell them and put it into a fund to pay for insurance for Brits in Thailand.

Edited October 14, 2014 by bruceybonus

[HenryC]

The Thai translation on this is.

The Thai Charge d'affaires Nadhavathna Krishnamra was called in to receive official congratulations from the British government for the outstanding work by the RTP.

the denial continues LOL

[sweatalot]

^{Britain now has DNA from Hannah and also the two innocents in jail.}

^{That is why they are now getting more involved.}

source?

[CapeThai]

Maybe Britain has "other" samples as well. Sean and maybe family members of Koh Tao

^{Britain now has DNA from Hannah and also the two innocents in jail.}

^{That is why they are now getting more involved.}

Spot On bertty !! They can now proof the fact that these two being held are in fact innocent and should now demand further DNA samples from certain Hi - So's on Koh Tao who refuses to give DNA and consider themselves untouchable.

Seems like everybody is overlooking this fact ???

[arisaje]

Does anyone really think Thailand and the RTP really care about what Briton thinks and does? The ONLY thing that makes them concerned is lack of tourists and the money that follows.

Being concerned about their tourism and loss of money.....is fine; but then Thailand should be doing EVERYTHING to investigate this crime properly and for prosecuting the correct people.....whoever they turn out to be, connected families or not.

For Thailand to show they are serious about crime and protecting tourists will overwhelmingly help their image and tourist numbers.

But what they are doing now, is completely backwards and hurting their cause, rather than helping it.

I know of another case of an English guy who was poisoned, left for dead, but survived in a coma for a long time. The Thai police just didn't want to get involved saying he was a drug addict and overdosed, case closed. Although lab results show he was given industrial strength poison in liquid form (drink spiked) so as soon as he was conscious the Thai authorities wanted him flown out asap. before any noise was made about the investigation.

[pendingo]

This is the "must do" UK parliamentary procedure following a petition with sufficient 'signatures' which BTW was initiated by a US citizen;

http://www.change.org/p/the-government-of-the-united-kingdom-independently-investigate-the-horrific-murders-of-hannah-witheridge-and-david-miller

if this matter is truly important to you, why not add your support in a material way?

Thank you and I have done so.

I have been sickened by this case and its handling by my country as well as by the Thai Police.

[Expat Girl]

Not going to read this nonsense. I know and every one else capable of thinking knows that England is only showing concern because the media is putting the pressure on them.

they have no reason to disbelieve the situation as the Thai government has presented it to them but the press in it's endless quest to sell papers by printing negative news and many times baseless allegations and ignore positive things has put the pressure on them to the point where they had no choice.

Absolute rubbish, how do you come up with such statements as 'they have no reason to disbelieve the situation as the Thai government has presented'

[bruceybonus]

Nom sod and family must be starting to feel mortal again

[northernjohn]

Coming from a family of diplomats, the summoning of a foreign diplomat comes after much verbal and written communication. It is a strong sign of displeasure. The meeting may be cordial, polite and not really sound like much, but the message is received loud and clear - we're not happy, we don't trust what you're doing. It already means a 'losing of face' in diplomatic circles. Foreign diplomats are not formally called lightly, it means something.

Exactly - a lot of people are missing this here. I do a lot of work in the diplomatic service and I know the nature of the language used, etc. It's very different from how the rest of us communicate things... there's a whole protocol and 'culture' around it. For example, when the UK says that it's willing to help in the investigation, it's basically demanding to be involved while at the same time recognising the sovereignty of the other country (and thus its right to manage its own investigation). And as you said, summoning a foreign diplomat is a very big deal with very significant meaning...

I agree with all that you have said. But let us look at the reason for the summoning. The media has put so much pressure on the Government that they have no choice but to save face. That is all it amounts to a saving of face.

The British government doesn't give a hoot about it's citizens. Ask any pensioner if he is getting treated fairly or are they with holding money on his pension because he lives in Thailand. Ask a British citizen what they have done to help him when stranded here in Thailand or in jail. The British do not have a good name for supporting their citizens in Thailand. They are more concerned with looking good in Diplomatic circles. That is what this is all about. They are exactly like many Asians. Look good never mind the reality.

[SteveFong]

am pretty sure the point is,

this is another layer added to the story to show the Thai police and the Thai government, that, they haven't convinced anyone, including their own people on this one,

the more layers of media trumpeting, the more pressure there is on their precious tourism, which by all accounts now has been suffering from a host of reasons,

this just being another

what is stumping though is someone on Kho Tao said that the recent arrivals havent a clue there was a rape and double homicide

[webfact]

UK summons Thai envoy to raise concern of backpacker murders



BANGKOK: -- Britain has summoned the Thai charge d'affaires in London to raise concerns over the police investigation into the murder of two British backpackers in Thailand, the Foreign Office said on Monday.

But Royal Thai Police commissioner Pol Gen Somyos Phumpanmuang reiterated Monday that no scapegoats were arrested and no one was assaulted to make confession.

The summons of the Thai diplomat in UK reveals that the police investigation has placed a considerable strain on relations between the UK and Thailand following the murders on 15 September.

It comes 48 hours after Thai police insisted they had concrete evidence linking two Burmese migrant workers with the brutal killings, following reports the suspects had withdrawn their confessions.

The Samui Provincial Court is scheduled to hear testimony from a key witness to the murder case Tuesday. The witness is a foreign tourist who the court wants to hear accounts from the tourist who have to leave the country and would be inconvenient to recall him back again.

A British Foreign Office statement on Monday said that minister Hugo Swire had summoned the diplomat to express his concerns about how the investigation has been handled by the Thai authorities.

“He said that it was crucial for the investigation to be conducted in a fair and transparent way,” it said.

Hannah Witheridge and David Miller were found dead on a beach on the island of Koh Tao on September 15. Miller, 24, had died from drowning and a blow to the head while Witheridge, 23, died from head wounds.

Police in Thailand have defended the arrest of two Myanmar men over the murders amid concern the pair may have confessed under duress.

Thai police say they have concrete evidence linking the men to the killings.

The two suspects, named as bar workers Zaw Lin and Win Zaw Htun, could face a possible death sentence after being accused of murdering Witheridge, 23, and Miller, 24, on the island of Koh Tao.

However, last week the suspects reportedly withdrew their confessions and alleged they were beaten during interrogations by Thai police. Other witnesses have also said they faced police brutality, such as scalding with boiling water.

Recently Swire, the Foreign Office minister and Tory MP for East Devon, raised his concerns with Thailand’s deputy prime minster, Tanasak Patimapragorn, shortly after the allegations of police brutality first surfaced.

“Mr Swire emphasised how important it was that the UK and Hannah and David’s families received regular updates on the investigation’s progress. He also noted his concern about the way that the police had engaged with the media on the case and reiterated that the UK police stood ready to assist with the investigation and subsequent legal process, ” the foreign office said.

Human rights groups including Amnesty International have also called for an investigation into the allegations of police torture.

A spokesman for the Royal Thai Police, however, said the claims were false. “We had them checked by a doctor before and after the inquiry because we thought the accused may claim they were tortured,” said deputy police chief spokesman Colonel Kissana Phathanacharoen.

“The accused persons can say anything they want. They can withdraw their confessions if they like. We have concrete evidence, including DNA evidence from Hannah’s body which matched the two suspects.”

The British media said the Thai police have vigorously defended their investigation into the killings, despite coming under repeated scrutiny over the long delay in tracking down suspects and for staging a bizarre reconstruction of the murders in which TV reporters played the two British victims.

The authorities have also denied claims that the two Burmese suspects have been made scapegoats for possibly higher-profile culprits. Police said investigators relied on witness testimony, CCTV evidence and DNA tests – particularly evidence taken from cigarettes found at the crime scene – to come to their conclusions and that their investigation was by the book.

Postmortem examinations found Miller, from Jersey, died from drowning and a blow to the head, while Witheridge, from Great Yarmouth, died from head wounds.

Source: http://englishnews.thaipbs.or.th/uk-summons-thai-envoy-raise-concern-backpacker-murders/


-- Thai PBS 2014-10-14

[pendingo]

Talk about stable door.

This is too little too late and shows just how uncaring the UK government is.

Right from the start Cameron and the Foreign Office should have been in the mix.

These two people were British Subjects and instead of pussy footing around they should have told the Thai authorities they would be getting assistance from a UK investigation team like it or not.

Total mess up and I'm sick of all this bullshit.

They will have been in the mix from the start

Likely they were but obviously not enough.

[jomcondo]

It's so easy for Thailand to do the "right thing" but just like the Saudi case it will continue on its path no matter what the financial costs.

Thailand you are in need of serious Psychiatric help

[jaywalker]

... it would be fairly obvious that international respect for the Thai Police, judicial and forensic process has suffered and tourism has no doubt had a greyer shade painted to it .

I don't have a horse in this race however certainly believe the Thai authorities could have handled this much better and avoided the international furore that now exists .

I have serious doubts that the Thai authorities realize anything. If they do they're too scared to speak out. Might make somebody lose face ya know.

[In Town]

At what point does the coup, military government, martial law, and lack of rule of law, lead to international sanctions placed on junta members similar to those employed against the Burmese generals? Its hard to argue that Thailand is more democratic than Burma or Cambodia at this point, and is one of only two military regimes in the entire world.

[bruceybonus]

It's so easy for Thailand to do the "right thing" but just like the Saudi case it will continue on its path no matter what the financial costs.

Thailand you are in need of serious Psychiatric help

However, this is the first high profile case where social media has been involved & where Thais can find info outside of Thailand. Look at CSI LA, a Thai person based in the USA, giving Thais (in Thai Language) information & evidence they would never have been privy to before

[Baerboxer]

Finally the poms are showing some backbone

Don't confuse the actions of a government with the people. Unless of course all you sheep shaggers want to be thought of as Tony Abbot clones.

The sad reality is the government are probably aware of all the petitions and comments on social media, and that people are outraged enough that this will not just go away. Otherwise, I doubt the British government would be so involved.

There must be some consternation in the RTP as even they may have twigged by now that the usual fit up, drag on or unsolved case approach isn't going to get them off the hook this time.

[Expat Girl]

Coming from a family of diplomats, the summoning of a foreign diplomat comes after much verbal and written communication. It is a strong sign of displeasure. The meeting may be cordial, polite and not really sound like much, but the message is received loud and clear - we're not happy, we don't trust what you're doing. It already means a 'losing of face' in diplomatic circles. Foreign diplomats are not formally called lightly, it means something.

Exactly - a lot of people are missing this here. I do a lot of work in the diplomatic service and I know the nature of the language used, etc. It's very different from how the rest of us communicate things... there's a whole protocol and 'culture' around it. For example, when the UK says that it's willing to help in the investigation, it's basically demanding to be involved while at the same time recognising the sovereignty of the other country (and thus its right to manage its own investigation). And as you said, summoning a foreign diplomat is a very big deal with very significant meaning...

I agree with all that you have said. But let us look at the reason for the summoning. The media has put so much pressure on the Government that they have no choice but to save face. That is all it amounts to a saving of face.

The British government doesn't give a hoot about it's citizens. Ask any pensioner if he is getting treated fairly or are they with holding money on his pension because he lives in Thailand. Ask a British citizen what they have done to help him when stranded here in Thailand or in jail. The British do not have a good name for supporting their citizens in Thailand. They are more concerned with looking good in Diplomatic circles. That is what this is all about. They are exactly like many Asians. Look good never mind the reality.

The British Foreign Office will have been reviewing this case from day one, and will have also been in regular contact with the Embassy is Bangkok, that i can assure you. The British are one of the most privileged nations in the world, and their citizens the most looked after, especially the elderly. Diplomatic relationships always need to be maintained, and that is why you do not see them jumping in and making irrational statements. Its not about saving face because of media pressure, its about being concise with the information they receive and fully understanding the situation before they press the button to react. I for one would prefer the UK over most other countries as a place to live given its stability, laws, health and social systems..... i am sure you would agree.

[ingvar]

Never rely on media reports that have the word "reportedly" in it.

It is very probable that the Myanmar guys was tortured but in all the press it is "reportedly" so, while the RTP says they did not torture without using the word "reportedly".

The Myanmar guys "reportedly" withdrew their confessions while the RTP says they have not withdrawn their confessions without using the word "reportedly".

The Myanmar Embassy lawyers "reportedly" said the suspects in the case had bruises on their bodies from torture, while in the meantime we have not heard a word from any Myanmar lawyer except from what is reportedly reported in the press.

[wilcopops]

Not going to read this nonsense. I know and every one else capable of thinking knows that England is only showing concern because the media is putting the pressure on them.

they have no reason to disbelieve the situation as the Thai government has presented it to them but the press in it's endless quest to sell papers by printing negative news and many times baseless allegations and ignore positive things has put the pressure on them to the point where they had no choice.

you seem to be reacting to events as they appear on TV - the more likely truth is that a lot has been going on behind the scenes and they elected not to tell you all about it.

Maybe they'll put you in the loop next time?