British envoy meets Thai, Myanmar officials on murder probe

[djhotsox]

Would be great to find out how they could one of the most important witnesses leave the island. The Scottish guy named "Sean."

Let's hope that Scotland Yard did its own research.

Don't forget the Thai mafia on the island including the suspects everyone knows about...

What Mafia? There is no "mafia" on that island....

[Emster23]

If the general wants to return happiness to the Thai people, how about honest, intelligent police and justice system? That will also lead to astonishment. I know of no Thais who consider RTP anything other than mafia in uniform. And I know plenty of Thais.

[T_Dog]

I normally don't speculate, but I'm guessing both these meetings might be a very diplomatic way of giving the Thai government a chance to save Face.

Quite possibly the British have done their own DNA workup, quietly done some other investigation, and have strong evidence of what really happened, and who did it.

So yesterday's "summons," and now this meeting, might be a gentle warning: Get your ducks in a row and arrest the right people ….

Maybe the defense lawyers were able to get some saliva samples from the suspects in their 30 minutes with them last night. The British envoy could then take them to the UK and do their own test against the DNA on file from the female victim. Just conjecture here, but not outside the realm of possibility in a high profile case such as this.

[ParadiseLost]

This could be a very effective tool to get Thailand, its police and owners of shady establishments to clean up their act.http://www.kohtao.asia/food-and-drink/bars-and-night-clubs.html

Much more effective than these clowns diplomats tugging at each other. Who knows you might just save some lives.

Read the comments on this site, and post how you feel while you are there. And when you are finished there go to any of the hundreds of others and post there as well.

Incredibly damaging to the island's reputation. How sad things were left to fester there for so long. The people who committed the crime would be well known for their prior activities, but the community chose to live with it and enabled a delusional psychopath into believing he could do anything he likes. Time for payback and the community should take first action imo.

Interesting to see the community forum has one other thing in common - no real interest in this topic:

Edited October 14, 2014 by ParadiseLost

[Carrerakiss]

I keep reading the British initiated the complaints that the RTP were handling this case incompetently but i believe the Thai forums were complaining about this long before the British jumped on the badwagon

The Thais were and are complaining on their own forums... Thing is that their comments and opinions are usually written in Thai really go no further than Thailand. It's the foreigners who have kept this case in the international spotlight. You should be old enough to know that western governments only react when sufficient public pressure is applied. And that begs the question of how will the Thai government respond to this? It seems to be well over the heads of the police at this point.

Yes, however if enough Thais take to social media it may pressure their own government to act. Military governments are sensitive to the possibility of civil unrest. All those guns and tanks aren't meant to be used on their own people really. And if Thai people rise up demanding justice for not just this case but all, then it might make the government do something about a police force that is just simply a law unto itself and totally out of control.

[stephen terry]

The FCO has added another nail in the RTP's coffin. I am becoming more encouraged that whatever the RTP have said, it will be contended as being not factual, worldwide. By now, it must be clear that the charge against the two Burmese is riddled with deficiences. Everyone and his brother want the AC bar family to provide DNA to the UK, to clear or indict them. It's that simple (and it's so difficult).

[TTom911]

it REALLY needs a strong stomach:

"So far, questioning of the suspects and witnesses have been done without a lawyer and a proper interpreter present."

"One high-ranking police officer told the media the Myanmar nationals didn't ask for a lawyer." Holly hell, can you believe such a statement, say's it all.......

Seems that layers are not even allowed to have their clients/defendants physically examined for wounds without the Police permission......

Worth taking note of the cartoon at the bottom of the page - Thai newspaper, Thai cartoonist (I assume) - WELL DONE !

http://www.bangkokpost.com/news/social/437436/three-witnesses-to-testify-in-koh-tao-case

"Appointed defence lawyers had 30 minutes with the accused yesterday and arrived late last night."

Today then straight to the court hearing, request for more time for the defence to prepare was denied by the court....

http://www.dvb.no/news/hearing-gets-under-way-in-koh-tao-murder-case-burma-myanmar/45004

[Dannybigboy]

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If these Burmese are found guilty without the satisfaction of the western observers , e.g. Confirmation of DNA tests-

Then sentenced to 30-40 years or death *(most likely)

Or worse eliminated by a said angry inmate - or Suicide claims -

This case will escalate into an international spotlight that would damage tourism even more so.

DNA tests by UK refused?

Thailand doesn't want to do this for a very clear reason.

It is unsure or knows the results would draw a big blank.

That would be back to the drawing board with the season fast approaching -

So they are doing the unthinkable and ploughing straight ahead with all their eggs in this basket.

Thinking to kill these men will appease eventually-

How out of touch they are with western culture .

Its remarkable-

Now the situation has escalated to such a point that they must admit error - or allow proof that can beyond reasonable doubt conclude their guilt.

DNA tests by UK forensic people is the only path left open in such massive world glare.

This has gone way past social media frenzy-

Its now on an international level .

UK being the far greater player in this not so funny stand off.

Countries like America - New Zealand - Australia - and indeed parts of Asia including Thais themselves are focused on this case and its outcome.

Time is running out for them to come clean

Absolutely....well written !! Soon they will have to face the real Music of justice !! I am sure the British authorities will have a final saying in this matter !!!

[transam]

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If these Burmese are found guilty without the satisfaction of the western observers , e.g. Confirmation of DNA tests-

Then sentenced to 30-40 years or death *(most likely)

Or worse eliminated by a said angry inmate - or Suicide claims -

This case will escalate into an international spotlight that would damage tourism even more so.

DNA tests by UK refused?

Thailand doesn't want to do this for a very clear reason.

It is unsure or knows the results would draw a big blank.

That would be back to the drawing board with the season fast approaching -

So they are doing the unthinkable and ploughing straight ahead with all their eggs in this basket.

Thinking to kill these men will appease eventually-

How out of touch they are with western culture .

Its remarkable-

Now the situation has escalated to such a point that they must admit error - or allow proof that can beyond reasonable doubt conclude their guilt.

DNA tests by UK forensic people is the only path left open in such massive world glare.

This has gone way past social media frenzy-

Its now on an international level .

UK being the far greater player in this not so funny stand off.

Countries like America - New Zealand - Australia - and indeed parts of Asia including Thais themselves are focused on this case and its outcome.

Time is running out for them to come clean

Absolutely....well written !! Soon they will have to face the real Music of justice !! I am sure the British authorities will have a final saying in this matter !!!

And tourist bookings...........

[stephen terry]

Their lawyers called for the trial to be postponed to allow more time to prepare a defence but the plea was rejected. - See more at: http://www.themalaysianinsider.com/world/article/thai-pm-plays-down-concern-over-tourist-murder-investigation#sthash.3xivde86.dpuf

No way are they going to delay the guilty verdicts.

[TTom911]

Their lawyers called for the trial to be postponed to allow more time to prepare a defence but the plea was rejected. - See more at: http://www.themalaysianinsider.com/world/article/thai-pm-plays-down-concern-over-tourist-murder-investigation#sthash.3xivde86.dpuf

No way are they going to delay the guilty verdicts.

This brown (sic...!) shirt guy makes me feel sicker by the day....

[TTom911]

Anyone that thinks the Brit embassy have not been on this from the start is a fool. same with Westminster. They will have stood back, taking notes allowing time for Thailand to do what they see fit. You don't just stick your nose into a sovereign countries judicial system when you feel like it

Correct.............

It's called "Diplomacy"....

Yes and 'diplomacy' usually means fudge, 'diplomacy' means sweeping things under the carpet in the wider strategic and business interests of Britain and its Western friends (the US). It rarely recognises 'justice' as an important factor, if it is inconvenient.

And lets not forget that "we" employ certain countries around the globe from time to time (T included) for activities which we dont want to make our own hands dirty with, and with that come certain obligations from time to time... sick, but true

[heyexile]

I keep reading the British initiated the complaints that the RTP were handling this case incompetently but i believe the Thai forums were complaining about this long before the British jumped on the badwagon

The Thais were and are complaining on their own forums... Thing is that their comments and opinions are usually written in Thai really go no further than Thailand. It's the foreigners who have kept this case in the international spotlight. You should be old enough to know that western governments only react when sufficient public pressure is applied. And that begs the question of how will the Thai government respond to this? It seems to be well over the heads of the police at this point.

Yes, however if enough Thais take to social media it may pressure their own government to act. Military governments are sensitive to the possibility of civil unrest. All those guns and tanks aren't meant to be used on their own people really. And if Thai people rise up demanding justice for not just this case but all, then it might make the government do something about a police force that is just simply a law unto itself and totally out of control.

"might make the government do something" eg The Supreme Commander of Police (PM) and his handpicked Police Commissioner General could do something honourable.......... as John Patterson seems to suggest in his `time bomb` piece?

http://nationmultimedia.com/opinion/Koh-Tao-30245085.html

[humqdpf]

DNA is hard to disprove but not impossible. Assuming that the real perps are not that 1 in 100million who have similar/identical DNA, the presence of a person's DNA at the scene could have other explanations. The most likely of these explanations are that either the DNA was planted by the police or others or that the test was fudged to make it look like the DNA was that of the accused.

My concern is that two fairly tall reasonably well-built Westerners could have been felled by two rather diminutive Burmese. Yes, the Burmese accused may have managed to get in the first strike with the hoe but how they managed to disable both persons and rape one of them without being injured is beyond me.

[davidstipek]

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British Ambassador Mark Kent told AFP he was meeting with the Thai police, foreign ministry officials and his Myanmar counterpart, without giving further details.

I will be expecting a Thai official reiterating how happy the British and Burmese embassies are about the handling of this case.

There are so many ways to obtain real DNA data other than sperm. for one thing there seems to be some struggle so another place needs to be check is under the nails. I think the Thai authorities should be on notice in case they temper with evidence.

I am still waiting to see if the head man son submit to DNA testing

If I was Headman's son... I would not touch anything... Drink anyhing... As a photo of him drinking from glass... another photo of Undercover Opperative picking up same glass and tagging Bag... Or Video of whole DNA Retreval being made...

If he is guilty.... how does he not know UK doesn't already know results??? He he's not the only way to avoid this would be to step-up and be tested... To continue to refuse only digs "Grave" deeper....

Can Headman be so sure that DNA Sampling has not been done by an ouside Source???? Really Sure????

[heyexile]

PM ridicules Brit offer of police assistance, saying it is NONE OF THEIR BUSINESS.

http://twitter.com/Atomicalandy

[Lancashireman]

Would be great to find out how they could one of the most important witnesses leave the island. The Scottish guy named "Sean."

Let's hope that Scotland Yard did its own research.

There is every likelihood that Sean has disappeared off the face of the planet, i.e. "silenced"

Every event this far can be construed as a 'likelihood'. Do you know what happened to Sean without guessing? I do, and be assured he remains very much on this planet.

UK authorities can and do this investigative work very well. Not a 100% success rate, but damn impressive in any big scheme you may wish to project. Watch this space...

[BritTim]

Anyone that thinks the Brit embassy have not been on this from the start is a fool. same with Westminster. They will have stood back, taking notes allowing time for Thailand to do what they see fit. You don't just stick your nose into a sovereign countries judicial system when you feel like it

Correct.............

It's called "Diplomacy"....

Yes and 'diplomacy' usually means fudge, 'diplomacy' means sweeping things under the carpet in the wider strategic and business interests of Britain and its Western friends (the US). It rarely recognises 'justice' as an important factor, if it is inconvenient.

All very true. However, political pressures can occasionally greatly alter this equation ... and public/media interest impacts on the political arena. This is one of those rare occasions. The British and Burmese authorities must be seen to be protecting their subjects' interests.

[TheCruncher]

. The army or PM could shut down TV any time they want, but they aren't. They want the truth out.

And there was me thinking the conspiracy theories couldn't get any more ridiculous.

I failed again

[geraldbradford]

Their lawyers called for the trial to be postponed to allow more time to prepare a defence but the plea was rejected. - See more at: http://www.themalaysianinsider.com/world/article/thai-pm-plays-down-concern-over-tourist-murder-investigation#sthash.3xivde86.dpuf

Andy Hall reports that the reason prosecution objected to a postponement was a fear of witnesses absconding. Yeah, right!

[Lozza]

Their lawyers called for the trial to be postponed to allow more time to prepare a defence but the plea was rejected. - See more at: http://www.themalaysianinsider.com/world/article/thai-pm-plays-down-concern-over-tourist-murder-investigation#sthash.3xivde86.dpuf

No way are they going to delay the guilty verdicts.

I do wish he'd shut the ....up.

[Lozza]

IF (many suspect, probably for good reason, we still don't know for sure yet) these local thugs were the culprits then the only chance would be if the RTP would have been dumb enough to still leave some DNA traces (if it existed) on the evidence which the British police would be able and willing to trace back to these people, which would require under-cover evidence collection and the lot... That sounds AWFULLY unlikely to me, as satisfying as that would be (if all true) - hence I at "best" expect an "inconclusive" outcome with the culprits probably getting away... "mission accomplished", RTP, even if with 2 black eyes, but who cares...

Why the hoe wasn't fingerprinted, or, it was and they didn't like the test results..decided to never mention the hoe again.

Also not much said about David's stolen motorbike. I'm sure he didn't take it to the beach at 3am and how would these guys know where it was and the keys to it were. Unless a mafia type handed it to them as a fit-up.

[stephen terry]

DNA is hard to disprove but not impossible. Assuming that the real perps are not that 1 in 100million who have similar/identical DNA, the presence of a person's DNA at the scene could have other explanations. The most likely of these explanations are that either the DNA was planted by the police or others or that the test was fudged to make it look like the DNA was that of the accused.

My concern is that two fairly tall reasonably well-built Westerners could have been felled by two rather diminutive Burmese. Yes, the Burmese accused may have managed to get in the first strike with the hoe but how they managed to disable both persons and rape one of them without being injured is beyond me.

And me. Any reasonable person would agree. But we're talking about a huge cover-up by the RTP who have been bought off.

[boomerangutang]

The FCO has added another nail in the RTP's coffin. I am becoming more encouraged that whatever the RTP have said, it will be contended as being not factual, worldwide. By now, it must be clear that the charge against the two Burmese is riddled with deficiences. Everyone and his brother want the AC bar family to provide DNA to the UK, to clear or indict them. It's that simple (and it's so difficult).

Here's another scenario: Let's say the Brits quit being wimps and actually step up and declare their tests show the guilty are actually people connected to the headman. What next? After the scrambling by Thai officialdom to try and save face while doing all they can to discredit what the Brits assert ..... the headman's son, NomSod (and his buddies) will continue to NOT be named as suspects, and (here's the clincher) ....because Thai officialdom + lawyers will claim the DNA has been rendered untrustworthy. This case will be left unsolved as happens in so MANY MYSTERIOUS DEATHS OF FARANG - particularly in southern beach resort areas of Thailand.

And TAT will achingly hope this all blows over, as all the prior unsolved murders have - so everyone can get back to the biz of taking money from farang.

[kimamey]

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I keep reading the British initiated the complaints that the RTP were handling this case incompetently but i believe the Thai forums were complaining about this long before the British jumped on the badwagon

You bet they were, this is generally how tourists murders are investigated, so nothing new, if only tourists really knew what went on in the dark side of Thailand they'd all go some place else.

In the case of any death either accidental or murder in a foreign country the embassy will just give support to the family. There might be some communication between police forces if needed but the local police would deal with the investigation. I think it's just the apparent problems with this case and the negative publicity that's making some action by the British government necessary.

[changnaam]

IF (many suspect, probably for good reason, we still don't know for sure yet) these local thugs were the culprits then the only chance would be if the RTP would have been dumb enough to still leave some DNA traces (if it existed) on the evidence which the British police would be able and willing to trace back to these people, which would require under-cover evidence collection and the lot... That sounds AWFULLY unlikely to me, as satisfying as that would be (if all true) - hence I at "best" expect an "inconclusive" outcome with the culprits probably getting away... "mission accomplished", RTP, even if with 2 black eyes, but who cares...

Why the hoe wasn't fingerprinted, or, it was and they didn't like the test results..decided to never mention the hoe again.

Also not much said about David's stolen motorbike. I'm sure he didn't take it to the beach at 3am and how would these guys know where it was and the keys to it were. Unless a mafia type handed it to them as a fit-up.

Totally agree on the hoe, deafening silence on that recently.

Not sure the motorbike statement is correct, I thought Burmese were on their own bike. Not heard ant mention of a missing bike.

[Dannybigboy]

I will tell you a story related to a big problem in Thailand...namely CORRUPTION !!

My girlfriend was killed in a motorbike accident on Koh Samui January 2000. Two thai massage ladies had been out on a crazy drinking-yabah Spree around Reggae Bar and decided to drive 100 km/h on the way back to the center of Chaweng. We were Walking home from a late soccergame on TV ...we did not even have 1 drink that night ! The 2 thai ladies lost Control in a curb near McDonalds and hit my girlfriend so bad that she sustained lethal injuries. She died in Bangkok 3 weeks later. It changed my Life.

The 2 thai ladies were caught by local police rather Quick...a very good job on there part !! The were later sent to Na Thon policestation and as always onwards to Suratthani State Prison.

What then followed became a farse.....my lawyer promised me that these ladies will go away for a very long time....a very long time. They were in custody for lengthy time ( months ) pending trial.

They were later sentenced to several years in prison.....rightfully so !!

I Went back to my homecountry and later the next year I found out that they had bribed themselves out of prison....for an amount not disclosed here. I felt sickened by this fact....and I still cant Believe this actually happened...but it did.

So....they only waited for the dust to clear...and nobodys watching....then the corrupt system struck yet Another deal with criminals !!! Money can buy Everything in Thailand !!

[ScubaPhuket]

I will tell you a story related to a big problem in Thailand...namely CORRUPTION !!

My girlfriend was killed in a motorbike accident on Koh Samui January 2000. Two thai massage ladies had been out on a crazy drinking-yabah Spree around Reggae Bar and decided to drive 100 km/h on the way back to the center of Chaweng. We were Walking home from a late soccergame on TV ...we did not even have 1 drink that night ! The 2 thai ladies lost Control in a curb near McDonalds and hit my girlfriend so bad that she sustained lethal injuries. She died in Bangkok 3 weeks later. It changed my Life.

The 2 thai ladies were caught by local police rather Quick...a very good job on there part !! The were later sent to Na Thon policestation and as always onwards to Suratthani State Prison.

What then followed became a farse.....my lawyer promised me that these ladies will go away for a very long time....a very long time. They were in custody for lengthy time ( months ) pending trial.

They were later sentenced to several years in prison.....rightfully so !!

I Went back to my homecountry and later the next year I found out that they had bribed themselves out of prison....for an amount not disclosed here. I felt sickened by this fact....and I still cant Believe this actually happened...but it did.

So....they only waited for the dust to clear...and nobodys watching....then the corrupt system struck yet Another deal with criminals !!! Money can buy Everything in Thailand !!

Sadly you're absolutely right & as you know you're part of a long line of victims.

I'm so sorry for your loss.

[kiwikeith]

i am amused by the amount of faith shown in the British foreign office and embassy. i might ask why they didn't question the course of the investigation much earlier, like when the Thai police ruled out the possibility that the culprits could be Thais and took to randomly DNA testing Burmese migrants and even placed the victims' British friends under suspicion. And when the Thai police released graphic crime scene photos and evidence to the media, upsetting the victims' families in Britain and potentially leading to a mistrial. It's all a bit late now. Who knows how much DNA and other evidence has been tampered with to create the result the Thai tourism industry needs? Britain has only been stirred into belated action following a request from the Burmese government to involve Scotland Yard. Which suggests that the British foreign office is more concerned with regional diplomacy than getting justice for its citizens.

Well said, they should have got involved immediately, I hope they have done their own DNA testing.

The New Zealand government failed it citizens when the people in Chiang Mai were poisoned and shame on them.

I hope the British government do something other than diplomatic chat.

[boomerangutang]

Re: British involvement: too little, too late.