Thai PM asserts British govt has no doubts regarding British tourists' murder case

[T_Dog]

Neither an officer or a gentleman, in fact the words of an evil man.

The murders were horrific, but to put two innocent men to the sword is the stuff of pure evil

That last sentence sums up my feelings so perfectly.

[SteveFong]

The Generals army has been on the island asking traders in the night market and many other Thai's who they feared most.

One families name came up that live in Haad Rin, they run the full moon party.

Another question was were do you think the money goes ..........................ah, by their silence they got the answer they wanted.

A number of 20 odd yr old beach resorts have been given ninety days notices.

If they cannot sort the fullmoon party out properly it will prove only one thing, one family , has the power and are untouchable !

what does that mean, 90 day notice, to do what?

and,

is the Army there, taking over that island and shutting that family quietly down?

[BoristheBlade]

Never mind DNA, what about motive?

The injuries to Hanna were beyond words, they were inflicted by someone who is very ill, and evil. A person who has killed before and is sure to kill again.

General remember that, because this will happen again.

I hope you sleep well tonight General, I am sure the family of Hanna,David and the two Burmese accused won't

Edited October 15, 2014 by BoristheBlade

[heyexile]

Koh_Tao is in Surathani province I suppose... Who is the boss of that province ? Khun_Suthep... People in his province don't love him ; he acts like a tyrant . Don't have to look harder...

Influential, well respected, wealthy people on KT love him.

Warot Tuvichien: son of Montriawat Tuvichien

Montriawat Tuvichien: brother to Voraphan Tuvichien.

Voraphan Tuvichien: politician, Mayor/Headman of KT. Leading member of Surat Thani section Dem party. Top organiser for PDRC in Surat Thani.

Venerable Uncle Suthep: Leader of Dem Party, Surat Thani province (includes KT). Founder PDRC, vital supporter of military regime.

These respected influentials are beyond all reproach. .

[SteveFong]

this guy has seen plenty of dead people, he mourns for them all

[rickirs]

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what can the uk government do anyway ? They cant control Thailand thats for sure.

What if the UK puts out a tourist warning that Thailand island resorts may be unsafe and potentially injurious by uncontrolled assailants? That might give Thailand a second thought or two when brushing off UK's concerns about the lack of proper law and order in the islands.

[BoristheBlade]

If the UK gets EEC, Commonwealth as well as the USA backing, thats some trump card.

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what can the uk government do anyway ? They cant control Thailand thats for sure.

What if the UK puts out a tourist warning that Thailand island resorts may be unsafe and potentially injurious by uncontrolled assailants? That might give Thailand a second thought or two when brushing off UK's concerns about the lack of proper law and order in the islands.

[SteveFong]

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what can the uk government do anyway ? They cant control Thailand thats for sure.

What if the UK puts out a tourist warning that Thailand island resorts may be unsafe and potentially injurious by uncontrolled assailants? That might give Thailand a second thou

ght or two when brushing off UK's concerns about the lack of proper law and order in the islands.

They already did that

https://www.gov.uk/foreign-travel-advice/thailand/safety-and-security

[gemini81]

Koh_Tao is in Surathani province I suppose... Who is the boss of that province ? Khun_Suthep... People in his province don't love him ; he acts like a tyrant . Don't have to look harder...

He's got nothing to do with this murder case silly, haha.

[outsider]

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I'm very disappointed in this guy. I realize he does not give a rat's ass about my opinion. I thought he was an honorable man, and the shining hope for the future of Thailand. Now I see it's the same old BS, with a different face. Very sad. Does he just think that everybody will believe all these little fairy tales, in spite of proof to the contrary?

I was a skeptic all throughout the protests, I am not coloured (red or yellow) and I watched the coup and held a tiny bit of hope but of course my instincts were right all along.

NO CHANGE HERE. Just another step back towards the 19th century. The smug elite is all General Prayuth is. Bye bye Thaksin clan, hello military clan, and then whatevers next.

I can't fully express the contempt I feel for the General and the whole network of oily ticks that leads down to the bottom.

My thoughts exactly. I thought he would finally be the one to move the bar forward, where so many have failed. Guess I was wrong.

For me it all started with Bikini-Gate. From that point onwards, it was downhill. As of now, any last vestiges of admiration or respect I have for him has gone out the window.

I am not coloured, but I'm quite close to missing YL. At least she was funny and entertaining, in a roundabout sort of way, at least.

[jayboy]

Now he is pretending that he doesn't understand diplomacy or maybe he really doesn't. Did he expect the British ambassador to say exactly what was in his mind and rant and rave about corrupt police and military working hand and glove with Mafia to scapegoat innocent people?

Diplomats and Thais have one thing in common: they never speak directly. But if you know how to read between the lines in their own language you know exactly what they are saying. The statement of the British foreign minister was clear to anyone who understands how diplomats communicate. The Thai PM responded in a Thai manner, not a diplomatic manner . . . and for anyone who has spent much time in Thailand, it is equally clear what his response was intended to communicate. And it was no gaffe, he knew exactly what he was saying, the Thai way.

And what was he saying? Please advise because many of my Thai friends are puzzled and embarrassed so clarification would be welcome.

Incidentally my experience of those who waffle on about the "Thai way" invariably came down in the last shower.

I believe the PMs statement was meant to be an insult and a total brush off, in response to a diplomatically direct challenge (most likely based on knowledge from an internal British investigation) and perceived insult and loss of face. I believe most Thai people do understand what he was really saying, just as they would understand if this same type of exchange had taken place between two Thai politicians, between two neighbors or business persons having a disagreement, etc. They are embarrassed because they realize how it will be perceived, both inside Thailand by people that do understand what he is really saying, and by foreigners that do not. And they are embarrassed and worried because they understand the diplomatic, practical (i.e. tourism/economy related), perceptive, and other impacts this may have on the country, as well as the implications it has for real reform within the country. He knew full well what he was saying, but may not have known, or on balance with other concerns doesn't care, what the implications would be.

By the way my discussion of the "Thai way" was not intended to pass judgment one way or the other. It was simply a statement of reality as to how most Thai people communicate in circumstances involving conflict (I admit it's a generalization that doesn't apply to everyone or every situation, but from my long experience it applies to most). Again based on a lot of experience, the "Thai way" of being indirect is a double-edged sword: sometimes it makes a situation worse, sometimes better . . . just as being too direct in a farang matter can be a double-edged sword as well.

I don't understand what you mean by "came down in the last shower". If you mean I just recently arrived and do not have long-term experience in Thailand, then you are very wrong.

Thanks for this intelligent response.It all rings very true.Perhaps also it illustrates the PM is not really a very sophisticated global operator given his context is almost entirely that of the Thai world and a largely military one to boot.One could argue that this lack of worldliness also applied to other leaders such as Chuan but he had a gentler temperament which softened the impact.Above all he and other home grown leaders had a filter which seems absent in the current PM.

Apologies for the dig at the "Thai way" comment.Usually when foreigners invoke it I reach for my revolver.But your clear explanation is excellent.

[cup-O-coffee]

So, if a PM is going to outright lie to the world about what the British Press said, then it is now a confirmed fact that everyone from the liar on down are liars as well...

Hence... this investigation is a cover up and nothing but lies, or half truths to embellish more lies.

Fact: you never know when they are telling a lie or a truth or half truth, and even then you never know if they will change what they told and say something else. This sums up their investigations.

Disgusting!

[CapFarmer]

The Generals army has been on the island asking traders in the night market and many other Thai's who they feared most.

One families name came up that live in Haad Rin, they run the full moon party.

Another question was were do you think the money goes ..........................ah, by their silence they got the answer they wanted.

A number of 20 odd yr old beach resorts have been given ninety days notices.

If they cannot sort the fullmoon party out properly it will prove only one thing, one family , has the power and are untouchable !

I would like to hope and believe that it is possible the PM is working publicly to save face for the country while privately he will be transferring assets away from the tainted families currently running KT, surrounding islands and the Provence as a whole. Unfortunately, I do not believe that to be the case.

[Krataiboy]

Welcome to the half-moon party.

[Kru Baa]

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Who in their right mind would bother with any full moon party now?

There are plenty of hippie backpacker trash that will still go to the full moon parties. As long as there are drugs and other losers there to hang out with.

[Number 3]

Now this guy is speaking for the UK government. Another thread said that the UK summoned Thailand's rep in the UK. Who to believe? This is fun!

This is on the BBC site: http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-29604685

The Thai charge d'affaires has been summoned to the UK Foreign Office over concerns about the inquiry into the murders of two British tourists.

I guess the UK government now "understands" the situation...

Finally grown a pair then. Good to see.

So much time has been lost I pray that they now hit this HARD.

There is completely no need for more loss of life that is coming. Not a single need. Step it up now. The first step is always the hardest lads now forge on....

[Number 3]

Koh_Tao is in Surathani province I suppose...Who is the boss of that province ?Khun_Suthep...People in his province don't love him ; he acts like a tyrant .Don't have to look harder...

He IS a tyrant -no acting there

Once this case unravels more it will be blindingly evident how complicit Suthep is in all of this.

[Smurkster]

Koh_Tao is in Surathani province I suppose...Who is the boss of that province ?Khun_Suthep...People in his province don't love him ; he acts like a tyrant .Don't have to look harder...

Once this case unravels more it will be blindingly evident how complicit Suthep is in all of this.

Who amongst us actually believed there was any neutrality in the this first place when the coup happened?

[Traveler19491]

Saying something is not so does not make it not so.

https://www.gov.uk/government/news/fco-minister-summons-thai-charge-daffaires-to-foreign-office

http://uk.reuters.com/article/2014/10/13/uk-britain-thailand-idUKKCN0I21QY20141013

http://www.washingtonpost.com/world/europe/uk-summons-thai-diplomat-over-tourist-murders/2014/10/13/e6dc8902-52f0-11e4-b86d-184ac281388d_story.html

It would seem that the rest of the world disagrees with the PM.

[dieseldave1951]

but they didin't summons him prime miniuster Prayuth" say so" so there

you have to belive him

they will take to the wire

it no more than a old style linching

Prime Minister Prayuth Chan-ocha asserted that the British government has no doubt regarding Thailand's investigation of the murder of two British tourists ….

I'm sure they don't Mr Prime Minister, that's why yesterday they summoned your man in London, stressing "there was a real concern in the UK about how the investigation has been handled by the Thai authorities, and are meeting again today to discuss the RTP's handiwork.

They have no doubts, so they are trying to give you a chance to save Face.

I'd take it.

[dieseldave1951]

perhaps the UK goverment used words that the pm does not understand

Prime Minister Prayuth Chan-ocha asserted that the British government has no doubt regarding Thailand's investigation of the murder of two British tourists ….

I'm sure they don't Mr Prime Minister, that's why yesterday they summoned your man in London, stressing "there was a real concern in the UK about how the investigation has been handled by the Thai authorities, and are meeting again today to discuss the RTP's handiwork.

They have no doubts, so they are trying to give you a chance to save Face.

I'd take it.

[GAZZPA]

Now this guy is speaking for the UK government. Another thread said that the UK summoned Thailand's rep in the UK. Who to believe? This is fun!

Below is a link to the official UK Gov website stating that they have "summoned" the Thailands representative. Enough said,,

https://www.gov.uk/government/news/fco-minister-summons-thai-charge-daffaires-to-foreign-office

[belg]

did the man got this info from his fortune teller?

[chotthee]

Now this guy is speaking for the UK government. Another thread said that the UK summoned Thailand's rep in the UK. Who to believe? This is fun!

Would you believe the words of a Prime Minister, or the words for some civil servants

Surely you must believe Thai Prime Minister Prayuth.

I.e. Porky Pie by the British civil servant.

[Bleacher Bum East]

Diplomats and Thais have one thing in common: they never speak directly. But if you know how to read between the lines in their own language you know exactly what they are saying. The statement of the British foreign minister was clear to anyone who understands how diplomats communicate. The Thai PM responded in a Thai manner, not a diplomatic manner . . . and for anyone who has spent much time in Thailand, it is equally clear what his response was intended to communicate. And it was no gaffe, he knew exactly what he was saying, the Thai way.

And what was he saying? Please advise because many of my Thai friends are puzzled and embarrassed so clarification would be welcome.

Incidentally my experience of those who waffle on about the "Thai way" invariably came down in the last shower.

I believe the PMs statement was meant to be an insult and a total brush off, in response to a diplomatically direct challenge (most likely based on knowledge from an internal British investigation) and perceived insult and loss of face. I believe most Thai people do understand what he was really saying, just as they would understand if this same type of exchange had taken place between two Thai politicians, between two neighbors or business persons having a disagreement, etc. They are embarrassed because they realize how it will be perceived, both inside Thailand by people that do understand what he is really saying, and by foreigners that do not. And they are embarrassed and worried because they understand the diplomatic, practical (i.e. tourism/economy related), perceptive, and other impacts this may have on the country, as well as the implications it has for real reform within the country. He knew full well what he was saying, but may not have known, or on balance with other concerns doesn't care, what the implications would be.

By the way my discussion of the "Thai way" was not intended to pass judgment one way or the other. It was simply a statement of reality as to how most Thai people communicate in circumstances involving conflict (I admit it's a generalization that doesn't apply to everyone or every situation, but from my long experience it applies to most). Again based on a lot of experience, the "Thai way" of being indirect is a double-edged sword: sometimes it makes a situation worse, sometimes better . . . just as being too direct in a farang matter can be a double-edged sword as well.

I don't understand what you mean by "came down in the last shower". If you mean I just recently arrived and do not have long-term experience in Thailand, then you are very wrong.

Thanks for this intelligent response.It all rings very true.Perhaps also it illustrates the PM is not really a very sophisticated global operator given his context is almost entirely that of the Thai world and a largely military one to boot.One could argue that this lack of worldliness also applied to other leaders such as Chuan but he had a gentler temperament which softened the impact.Above all he and other home grown leaders had a filter which seems absent in the current PM.

Apologies for the dig at the "Thai way" comment.Usually when foreigners invoke it I reach for my revolver.But your clear explanation is excellent.

I agree with you . . . just as most farangs with limited experience in Thailand don't anticipate (or care enough about) the response they will get and ramifications involved when they speak in strong direct language in a circumstance that could cause the loss of face (which could be directly related to the murder of Hannah and David), someone having authority in Thailand, new to the international scene and with a military mindset may not anticipate (or care enough about) the response and ramifications of speaking publicly to an international audience in an indirect, dismissive manner seemingly at odds with demonstrable facts, even though that would be a common, and by many accepted, response/put down/brush off by someone in Thai authority whose authority had been questioned (within the country there were many of these types of statements flying back and forth from all parties over the last few years). Of course one difference between the two approaches is that the direct approach leaves no room for deniability, because you say exactly what you mean, and the indirect approach leaves room for claiming "of course I didn't mean it that way" if challenged, even though everyone knows that's exactly what was meant (and many people aren't very concerned about the "plausible" portion of plausible deniability).

Let's hope that filter you spoke about is developed soon, mostly for Thailand's sake. I also hope that this turns out in the end the same as another type of experience (positive) that I've had many times here in Thailand . . . my experience has been that although someone hearing direct criticism will almost never directly acknowledge and agree with what's been said, or immediately do what's been requested, that doesn't mean they haven't heard it and won't take the advice/criticism to mind when taking action in the future (so that their correction does not appear to be in direct response to the criticism, which to someone in authority would constitute a further loss of face). I'm hoping that regardless of the public response to the British foreign minister's actions and statements, the message that "we now have information that doesn't really square with some statements reported in the press" has been heard and understood, and that some self-corrective action will be forthcoming sometime in the near future. Although I'm not holding my breath, one can always hope.

Edited October 15, 2014 by Bleacher Bum East

[Snig27]

I have not time or liking for Military takeovers and Juntas but I still can't help feeling sorry for the PM, He could possibly have turned out to be the greatest leader in Thailand's history , who knows, but he doesn't have a chance as he's bogged down by the absolute incompetence and stupidity of the Government agencies he has inherited. It was only the infighting, law suits , protests and political violence that kept this shambles and their ineptitude off of the front pages

Seriously? He's opened his mouth and this sort of stuff has flowed out so many times now it's impossible to blame anyone else. And given the trainwreck that is the Thai military is anyone really surprised?

[phutoie2]

Now this guy is speaking for the UK government. Another thread said that the UK summoned Thailand's rep in the UK. Who to believe? This is fun!

Would you believe the words of a Prime Minister, or the words for some civil servants

Surely you must believe Thai Prime Minister Prayuth.

I.e. Porky Pie by the British civil servant.

The PM has every reason to be cautious with dealing with the Brits. Fake bomb detectors anyone.

[Oziex1]

Who to believe you ask, this whole case is about the questionable honesty of Thai police and officials.

,

[joecoolfrog]

Burmese go free because evidence tainted / unreliable , RTP claim no further leads so case goes cold , no Thais implicated , justice not served.

That is the end game I suspect the Thai authorities have been working towards and it would suit them nicely.

The question is , will The British government / Media let it rest and what , if any , would be the consequencies ?

[joecoolfrog]

Burmese go free because evidence tainted / unreliable , RTP claim no further leads so case goes cold , no Thais implicated , justice not served.

That is the end game I suspect the Thai authorities have been working towards and it would suit them nicely.

The question is , will The British government / Media let it rest and what , if any , would be the consequencies ?