Prayut will not commit to poll date

[rubl]

It also reminds me of Suthep who was holding meetings with his reform council in the park during the protest. Big changes and far going plans were promised time after time, but eventually nothing came out after months.

With hindsight it was clear the whole reforms were just bogus and he was waiting for escalation so the army could step in.

The same happens now, big plans are being promised but a few years from now some people will look back at this period and will feel ashamed they never saw what was really happening.

Of course had the PDRC come with detailed plans on reforms they would have been vilified and crucified for describing reforms without even asking for broader input from other Thais.

In the end the PDRC started with defining a framework which would help the process of discussion reform issues, collection input, etc., etc. In a way similar to what the NRC will be doing.

Ah well, obviously and clear for all to see the NCPO failed. After one day they still hadn't solved all problems from the last decades. There were even a few farmers left last month, still waiting to get paid for their rice. Imagine!

Of course this would never have happened in a democracy, but then Thailand wasn't one, not really.

Seems reforms include now that the PM admits he wants to keep power - but admits he fears revolt from "other forces" and acknowledges he needs to learn , and might have made mistakes.

Almost, my dear Freddy.

As far as I know PM Prayut didn't admit or even just say that he "wants to keep power". It's others who do that for him, like a handful TVF posters.

[Fred Flinstone]

It also reminds me of Suthep who was holding meetings with his reform council in the park during the protest. Big changes and far going plans were promised time after time, but eventually nothing came out after months.

With hindsight it was clear the whole reforms were just bogus and he was waiting for escalation so the army could step in.

The same happens now, big plans are being promised but a few years from now some people will look back at this period and will feel ashamed they never saw what was really happening.

Of course had the PDRC come with detailed plans on reforms they would have been vilified and crucified for describing reforms without even asking for broader input from other Thais.

In the end the PDRC started with defining a framework which would help the process of discussion reform issues, collection input, etc., etc. In a way similar to what the NRC will be doing.

Ah well, obviously and clear for all to see the NCPO failed. After one day they still hadn't solved all problems from the last decades. There were even a few farmers left last month, still waiting to get paid for their rice. Imagine!

Of course this would never have happened in a democracy, but then Thailand wasn't one, not really.

Seems reforms include now that the PM admits he wants to keep power - but admits he fears revolt from "other forces" and acknowledges he needs to learn , and might have made mistakes.

Almost, my dear Freddy.

As far as I know PM Prayut didn't admit or even just say that he "wants to keep power". It's others who do that for him, like a handful TVF posters.

Your wrong -

He also wants to delay elections and has said "he wishes people saw him as a father "

Sounds like a "dear leader north korean style comment "

Edited October 20, 2014 by Fred Flinstone

[Bob12345]

It also reminds me of Suthep who was holding meetings with his reform council in the park during the protest. Big changes and far going plans were promised time after time, but eventually nothing came out after months.

With hindsight it was clear the whole reforms were just bogus and he was waiting for escalation so the army could step in.

The same happens now, big plans are being promised but a few years from now some people will look back at this period and will feel ashamed they never saw what was really happening.

Of course had the PDRC come with detailed plans on reforms they would have been vilified and crucified for describing reforms without even asking for broader input from other Thais.

In the end the PDRC started with defining a framework which would help the process of discussion reform issues, collection input, etc., etc. In a way similar to what the NRC will be doing.

Ah well, obviously and clear for all to see the NCPO failed. After one day they still hadn't solved all problems from the last decades. There were even a few farmers left last month, still waiting to get paid for their rice. Imagine!

Of course this would never have happened in a democracy, but then Thailand wasn't one, not really.

Of course had the PDRC come with detailed plans on reforms they could have just made it their (Democratic Party) election promise and they would stand a good chance in the elections when so many people were still angry about the amnesty bill and millions of them were protesting daily in the streets of bangkok.

But for some reason they didn't come with any plans. Not even a draft, a framework, or a general scope statement.

And strange that the PDRC needed to collect so much input while last time they (Abhisit, Suthep) were in power they never experienced problems with discussing issues and setting up reform plans.

[rubl]

Of course had the PDRC come with detailed plans on reforms they would have been vilified and crucified for describing reforms without even asking for broader input from other Thais.

In the end the PDRC started with defining a framework which would help the process of discussion reform issues, collection input, etc., etc. In a way similar to what the NRC will be doing.

Ah well, obviously and clear for all to see the NCPO failed. After one day they still hadn't solved all problems from the last decades. There were even a few farmers left last month, still waiting to get paid for their rice. Imagine!

Of course this would never have happened in a democracy, but then Thailand wasn't one, not really.

Seems reforms include now that the PM admits he wants to keep power - but admits he fears revolt from "other forces" and acknowledges he needs to learn , and might have made mistakes.

Almost, my dear Freddy.

As far as I know PM Prayut didn't admit or even just say that he "wants to keep power". It's others who do that for him, like a handful TVF posters.

Your wrong -

He also wants to delay elections and has said "he wishes people saw him as a father "

Sounds like a "dear leader north korean style comment "

"your wrong." ? Just like that? Sounds a wee bit dictatorial to me rather than as explanation I'm wrong, or even proof I'm wrong..

He also wants to delay elections when the reforms cannot be put in place in time.With lack of cooperation and even obstruction that may not bode well.

As for "father", he's just copying from another Thai who said "when I come back and people see I'm not out for revenge, all will like me"

[HooHaa]

until the shinawati cancer and red shirt demand are fully out of picture i pray no election even if thats 5 + years. Id prefer to live under a benign military dictatorship anyway than crap we've had from Taksin and his red shirts for last decade

the night is still too young to assert the junta is benign.

[Robespiere]

Prayuth will not commit to poll date...

Of course not, the day after the poll he will be out of a job!

[rubl]

It also reminds me of Suthep who was holding meetings with his reform council in the park during the protest. Big changes and far going plans were promised time after time, but eventually nothing came out after months.

With hindsight it was clear the whole reforms were just bogus and he was waiting for escalation so the army could step in.

The same happens now, big plans are being promised but a few years from now some people will look back at this period and will feel ashamed they never saw what was really happening.

Of course had the PDRC come with detailed plans on reforms they would have been vilified and crucified for describing reforms without even asking for broader input from other Thais.

In the end the PDRC started with defining a framework which would help the process of discussion reform issues, collection input, etc., etc. In a way similar to what the NRC will be doing.

Ah well, obviously and clear for all to see the NCPO failed. After one day they still hadn't solved all problems from the last decades. There were even a few farmers left last month, still waiting to get paid for their rice. Imagine!

Of course this would never have happened in a democracy, but then Thailand wasn't one, not really.

Of course had the PDRC come with detailed plans on reforms they could have just made it their (Democratic Party) election promise and they would stand a good chance in the elections when so many people were still angry about the amnesty bill and millions of them were protesting daily in the streets of bangkok.

But for some reason they didn't come with any plans. Not even a draft, a framework, or a general scope statement.

And strange that the PDRC needed to collect so much input while last time they (Abhisit, Suthep) were in power they never experienced problems with discussing issues and setting up reform plans.

Of course had the PDRC come with reform plans, the Yingluck Government and Pheu Thai members would have denounced such plans, if only out of principle (great leader not involved that is).

Both PM Yingluck and Pheu Thai also 'suggested' to wait with reforms till after the elections, As the Democrat party already had said not to stand in.then, you'ew suggestion is meaningless. That's apart from the fact that the link Democrat party - PDRC is not same as the link Pheu Thai - UDD with its few dozens red-shirt party list MPs,

So, they did start to formulate, they did talk a lot and therefor they are blamed for having nothing to show. Of xourse had they shown anything they would have been severely critisized for daring to present reform plans they themselves had formulated rather than having 'allowed' other Thai to participate. A kind of "damned if you do, damned if you don't" situation.

The "elections" are also back I see. As if that would have solved anything in a country lacking real democracy.

So, all in all, a lot of putting words together to suggest without really giving it much meaning or value. Also not much to do with the work the NRC has to start with or the delay it may cause in the elections. IMHO

PS now if only the PDRC had completed their reform package, fully detailed and so, the NRC could has started with that and all Thai and TVF posters would have been real happy

Edited October 20, 2014 by rubl

[Thanet]

So the earlier mentioning of an election in a year actually meant "an election in 1 year if 100% of the population cooperates completely"? It does sound a lot less sexy so I understand why they left that part out.

Convenient by the way that this can also always be used as an excuse for delays: "yes, sorry, we also needed input from Somchai who sells vegetables around the corner but he refused to cooperate so we need another year before we can make a roadmap to democracy as his input is critical for the country".

By the way, your posts seem to follow a certain pattern that makes me believe you are (becoming) blind for the facts, the steps you often show:

Q1: is what the junta is doing representing Thailand in a good way?

If no: point out that Yingluck would have done it worse and your job is done (no need to put a critical note how the junta is operating)

If yes, continue to Q2

Q2: is what the junta is doing a misuse of power?

if yes: point out that Taksin is a (convicted) criminal and your job is done (no need to put a critical note how the junta is operating)

if no, continue to Q3

Q3: is what the junta is doing is harmful for the economy:

if yes: mention 700++ billion baht (over and over again) and your job is done (no need to put a critical note how the junta is operating)

Well said Bob. I particularly liked the 'Rube logic in 3 questions' part at the end. We could even turn them into a flow chart, so that Rube can understand the procedure more readily.

Rube seems to have been completely taken in by this whole NLA / NRC obfuscation thing, as if these NLA / NRC structures actually meant something and had any independent power. More and more people are beginning to realise that the NLA / NRC is just a charade, there only for the sake of appearances, and that the result of these so called reforms is a foregone conclusion: taking political rights away from the citizenry and placing it solely into the hands of the traditional elite.

As you say, the election can be postponed indefinitely, because of some pretext - one person or another not yet satisfied with the progress so let's take another year ...

Rube gets himself buried in all this phoney process, while forgetting that the NCPO control everything and will of course dictate the outcome to their own, and their buddies', benefit.

It seems there has been a change of tactics. Instead of trying to discredit the contents, now concentrate on discrediting the poster. Spell in out repeatedly. I'm looking forward to the colourful graphics.

Of course I cannoy prove much, but the same goes for those who are against me. "NLA/NRC charade", "reforms forgone conclusion".

One thing though, luckily obstruction by TVF posters has no effect on the NRC / reforms defining process. I doubt Thainet bothered to register for a position even though having possibly studied in Australia he might fit the profile of people looked for.

I especially like the "will of course" in the last sentence. Obviously and clear for all to see. It's almost as if Thainet is seeking to apply for a position in the NCPO and it's dependent organisations. Surely They'll be happy with all suggestions on what some Thai think they should do

Hypocritical post - you begin with consternation that I am attacking the poster, then you do the very same thing.

My point is that NRC / NLA were put there as a front. They are both staffed by party faithful, and are subordinate to the NCPO. Yet you believe that they will come up with some kind of independent reform process that benefits the citizenry as a whole. If that's the case, then why can't the citizenry have a say?

Apart from Prayuth's promises, as reported by an unabashedly censored press, why would you believe all this on face value? Why would you choose to completely ignore the historical precedence of military governments in Thailand?

You are either very gullible or very naive.

[rubl]

Prayuth will not commit to poll date...

Of course not, the day after the poll he will be out of a job!

With all the comments he's getting (even if somewhat filtered) I'm sure he's actually looking forward to retirement

[Robespiere]

Prayuth will not commit to poll date...

Of course not, the day after the poll he will be out of a job!

With all the comments he's getting (even if somewhat filtered) I'm sure he's actually looking forward to retirement

You don't know much about politics, do you.

All the general is hearing is that he has 93.3% approval.

[rubl]

So the earlier mentioning of an election in a year actually meant "an election in 1 year if 100% of the population cooperates completely"? It does sound a lot less sexy so I understand why they left that part out.

Convenient by the way that this can also always be used as an excuse for delays: "yes, sorry, we also needed input from Somchai who sells vegetables around the corner but he refused to cooperate so we need another year before we can make a roadmap to democracy as his input is critical for the country".

By the way, your posts seem to follow a certain pattern that makes me believe you are (becoming) blind for the facts, the steps you often show:

Q1: is what the junta is doing representing Thailand in a good way?

If no: point out that Yingluck would have done it worse and your job is done (no need to put a critical note how the junta is operating)

If yes, continue to Q2

Q2: is what the junta is doing a misuse of power?

if yes: point out that Taksin is a (convicted) criminal and your job is done (no need to put a critical note how the junta is operating)

if no, continue to Q3

Q3: is what the junta is doing is harmful for the economy:

if yes: mention 700++ billion baht (over and over again) and your job is done (no need to put a critical note how the junta is operating)

Well said Bob. I particularly liked the 'Rube logic in 3 questions' part at the end. We could even turn them into a flow chart, so that Rube can understand the procedure more readily.

Rube seems to have been completely taken in by this whole NLA / NRC obfuscation thing, as if these NLA / NRC structures actually meant something and had any independent power. More and more people are beginning to realise that the NLA / NRC is just a charade, there only for the sake of appearances, and that the result of these so called reforms is a foregone conclusion: taking political rights away from the citizenry and placing it solely into the hands of the traditional elite.

As you say, the election can be postponed indefinitely, because of some pretext - one person or another not yet satisfied with the progress so let's take another year ...

Rube gets himself buried in all this phoney process, while forgetting that the NCPO control everything and will of course dictate the outcome to their own, and their buddies', benefit.

It seems there has been a change of tactics. Instead of trying to discredit the contents, now concentrate on discrediting the poster. Spell in out repeatedly. I'm looking forward to the colourful graphics.

Of course I cannoy prove much, but the same goes for those who are against me. "NLA/NRC charade", "reforms forgone conclusion".

One thing though, luckily obstruction by TVF posters has no effect on the NRC / reforms defining process. I doubt Thainet bothered to register for a position even though having possibly studied in Australia he might fit the profile of people looked for.

I especially like the "will of course" in the last sentence. Obviously and clear for all to see. It's almost as if Thainet is seeking to apply for a position in the NCPO and it's dependent organisations. Surely They'll be happy with all suggestions on what some Thai think they should do

Hypocritical post - you begin with consternation that I am attacking the poster, then you do the very same thing.

My point is that NRC / NLA were put there as a front. They are both staffed by party faithful, and are subordinate to the NCPO. Yet you believe that they will come up with some kind of independent reform process that benefits the citizenry as a whole. If that's the case, then why can't the citizenry have a say?

Apart from Prayuth's promises, as reported by an unabashedly censored press, why would you believe all this on face value? Why would you choose to completely ignore the historical precedence of military governments in Thailand?

You are either very gullible or very naive.

Read again, my dear Thainet. I'm dissecting your post only. I'm actually even praising you for your input on how the NCPO/NLA/NRC should proceed.

Of course, I may have been a bit naive or gullible in believing you were serious

[rubl]

Prayuth will not commit to poll date...

Of course not, the day after the poll he will be out of a job!

With all the comments he's getting (even if somewhat filtered) I'm sure he's actually looking forward to retirement

You don't know much about politics, do you.

All the general is hearing is that he has 93.3% approval.

You mean he's not in control

[Robespiere]

Prayuth will not commit to poll date...

Of course not, the day after the poll he will be out of a job!

With all the comments he's getting (even if somewhat filtered) I'm sure he's actually looking forward to retirement

You don't know much about politics, do you.

All the general is hearing is that he has 93.3% approval.

You mean he's not in control

He is "living in a bubble", much the same way George W did.

Emperor...

New clothes...

[Thanet]

You don't know much about politics, do you.

All the general is hearing is that he has 93.3% approval.

You mean he's not in control

He is "living in a bubble", much the same way George W did.

Emperor...

New clothes...

Right - his recent trip to Europe reminded me of a rabbit blinking at oncoming car headlights.

Talk about a fish out of water!

[rubl]

You don't know much about politics, do you.

All the general is hearing is that he has 93.3% approval.

You mean he's not in control

He is "living in a bubble", much the same way George W did.

Emperor...

New clothes...

I was wondering where Dick Cheney was already.

Still, I've been hearing again and again that Gen. Prayut is in total control. Now you tell me he's not, he's living in a bubble, suggesting he's seeing only what some show him. There's a conflict there somehow somewhere.

[rubl]

You don't know much about politics, do you.

All the general is hearing is that he has 93.3% approval.

You mean he's not in control

He is "living in a bubble", much the same way George W did.

Emperor...

New clothes...

Right - his recent trip to Europe reminded me of a rabbit blinking at oncoming car headlights.

Talk about a fish out of water!

Mention a rabbit and talk about a fish?

Anyway, PM Prayut will not commit to a poll date and all are running around like headless chicken. Oh what now, what to say, what denigrating remarks are left. Maybe a flowchart is needed for the faithful ?

[Robby nz]

Hypocritical post - you begin with consternation that I am attacking the poster, then you do the very same thing.

My point is that NRC / NLA were put there as a front. They are both staffed by party faithful, and are subordinate to the NCPO. Yet you believe that they will come up with some kind of independent reform process that benefits the citizenry as a whole. If that's the case, then why can't the citizenry have a say?

Apart from Prayuth's promises, as reported by an unabashedly censored press, why would you believe all this on face value? Why would you choose to completely ignore the historical precedence of military governments in Thailand?

You are either very gullible or very naive.

Even though you have addressed this to Rubi I would like to reply.

You start off by making an excuse as to why some should not take part in a reform process then ask "why can't the citizenry have a say?"

If the so called leaders did take part then the people would have a say.

Every sector has had a chance to take part and give input only there are some, one in particular, which refuse to give any input.

This is a sector which you and your fellow supporters claim has the support of the majority of the people yet they refuse to represent in a reform process those who they (and you) claim they represent.

If they truly had the interests of the people at heart and were willing to work for them then they would be in there with ideas to improve much needed things like education, health, justice, poverty, social problems and all the other things that need improving.

But no, the only focus they can see is on political reforms which will be designed to strengthen the laws under the previous constitution to keep criminals out of politics and make elections as free and fair as possible.

And why is this ? Because they know very well that and they and their patron have been the major transgressors, law breakers even, and are the most likely to be effected by any strengthened electoral law.

They are putting personal interest before the interest of the people they say they represent.

They keep up the same old bleat, the coup is illegal so we wont be part of it, that is beyond silly and into abject stupidity, we all know coup is against the law but it is a done deal and to sit there and squeal about it will get nowhere.

The only way to move forward to an election is to be part of a forward movement, refusing to take part or even working against will only slow the process and push elections even farther into the future.

But there are some who cant see that.

[Robespiere]

You don't know much about politics, do you.

All the general is hearing is that he has 93.3% approval.

You mean he's not in control

He is "living in a bubble", much the same way George W did.

Emperor...

New clothes...

I was wondering where Dick Cheney was already.

Still, I've been hearing again and again that Gen. Prayut is in total control. Now you tell me he's not, he's living in a bubble, suggesting he's seeing only what some show him. There's a conflict there somehow somewhere.

If there is a conflict, it is only within the contents of your cranium.

[mrtoad]

Come on guys, corruption is a lame excuse for the coup, most know the reason and there will be no election until after everything is done and dusted.

Corruption wasn't the excuse for the coup. Political stalemate and protest deaths were.

But The Red Shirt shills like to forget that, as it doesn't fit with their agenda.

[Eric Loh]

Hypocritical post - you begin with consternation that I am attacking the poster, then you do the very same thing.

My point is that NRC / NLA were put there as a front. They are both staffed by party faithful, and are subordinate to the NCPO. Yet you believe that they will come up with some kind of independent reform process that benefits the citizenry as a whole. If that's the case, then why can't the citizenry have a say?

Apart from Prayuth's promises, as reported by an unabashedly censored press, why would you believe all this on face value? Why would you choose to completely ignore the historical precedence of military governments in Thailand?

You are either very gullible or very naive.

Even though you have addressed this to Rubi I would like to reply.

You start off by making an excuse as to why some should not take part in a reform process then ask "why can't the citizenry have a say?"

If the so called leaders did take part then the people would have a say.

Every sector has had a chance to take part and give input only there are some, one in particular, which refuse to give any input.

This is a sector which you and your fellow supporters claim has the support of the majority of the people yet they refuse to represent in a reform process those who they (and you) claim they represent.

If they truly had the interests of the people at heart and were willing to work for them then they would be in there with ideas to improve much needed things like education, health, justice, poverty, social problems and all the other things that need improving.

But no, the only focus they can see is on political reforms which will be designed to strengthen the laws under the previous constitution to keep criminals out of politics and make elections as free and fair as possible.

And why is this ? Because they know very well that and they and their patron have been the major transgressors, law breakers even, and are the most likely to be effected by any strengthened electoral law.

They are putting personal interest before the interest of the people they say they represent.

They keep up the same old bleat, the coup is illegal so we wont be part of it, that is beyond silly and into abject stupidity, we all know coup is against the law but it is a done deal and to sit there and squeal about it will get nowhere.

The only way to move forward to an election is to be part of a forward movement, refusing to take part or even working against will only slow the process and push elections even farther into the future.

But there are some who cant see that.

Robbie, could you explain how one can participate in the reform process when you not in the NRC? BTW, the Dem is not represented in the NRC for obvious reason that it will be a conflict of interest in debating reform proposal; similar to PT' s view. Yes,the people can see and clearly too that any attempts to speak on reform can be arrested and hauled for attitude adjustment and spend time with the military.

[rubl]

He is "living in a bubble", much the same way George W did.

Emperor...

New clothes...

I was wondering where Dick Cheney was already.

Still, I've been hearing again and again that Gen. Prayut is in total control. Now you tell me he's not, he's living in a bubble, suggesting he's seeing only what some show him. There's a conflict there somehow somewhere.

If there is a conflict, it is only within the contents of your cranium.

Well, unlike you I'm not a revolutionair, I'm a wondering type. I try to apply logic and what with all comments here I can only start to wonder more.

Now you're right, that wondering takes place in my cranium (aka skull). Not in my wallet, not in my heart, not by my emotions, no. mostly cold logic.

So, a dictator is set to be in total control and at the same time he's being controlled what he hears is being controlled? Could Chalerm by right with Thaksin having profited most from the coup. Is he yet again the remote controller ?

Edited October 20, 2014 by rubl

[jpeg]

Hypocritical post - you begin with consternation that I am attacking the poster, then you do the very same thing.

My point is that NRC / NLA were put there as a front. They are both staffed by party faithful, and are subordinate to the NCPO. Yet you believe that they will come up with some kind of independent reform process that benefits the citizenry as a whole. If that's the case, then why can't the citizenry have a say?

Apart from Prayuth's promises, as reported by an unabashedly censored press, why would you believe all this on face value? Why would you choose to completely ignore the historical precedence of military governments in Thailand?

You are either very gullible or very naive.

Even though you have addressed this to Rubi I would like to reply.

You start off by making an excuse as to why some should not take part in a reform process then ask "why can't the citizenry have a say?"

If the so called leaders did take part then the people would have a say.

Every sector has had a chance to take part and give input only there are some, one in particular, which refuse to give any input.

This is a sector which you and your fellow supporters claim has the support of the majority of the people yet they refuse to represent in a reform process those who they (and you) claim they represent.

If they truly had the interests of the people at heart and were willing to work for them then they would be in there with ideas to improve much needed things like education, health, justice, poverty, social problems and all the other things that need improving.

But no, the only focus they can see is on political reforms which will be designed to strengthen the laws under the previous constitution to keep criminals out of politics and make elections as free and fair as possible.

And why is this ? Because they know very well that and they and their patron have been the major transgressors, law breakers even, and are the most likely to be effected by any strengthened electoral law.

They are putting personal interest before the interest of the people they say they represent.

They keep up the same old bleat, the coup is illegal so we wont be part of it, that is beyond silly and into abject stupidity, we all know coup is against the law but it is a done deal and to sit there and squeal about it will get nowhere.

The only way to move forward to an election is to be part of a forward movement, refusing to take part or even working against will only slow the process and push elections even farther into the future.

But there are some who cant see that.

Christ, you're naive ...

[rubl]

Robbie, could you explain how one can participate in the reform process when you not in the NRC? BTW, the Dem is not represented in the NRC for obvious reason that it will be a conflict of interest in debating reform proposal; similar to PT' s view. Yes,the people can see and clearly too that any attempts to speak on reform can be arrested and hauled for attitude adjustment and spend time with the military.

You haven't been paying attention, now have you. Mind you, as non-Thai you wouldn't be involved one way or another.

Thai could apply or be applied to join the various NRC committees. There were about 7,000 applications. Via some screening and shifting about 200 or so got appointed. That the NRC commison/committee structure. Now each commission has to formulate possible reforms in their appointed area. They must use their own expertise, via 'roadshow' like events try to get more of the public involved and everybody can provide input to them.

Of course some elect not to cooperate but adopt a 'wait-and-see' attitude, makes it easier to complain afterwards.

[brucec64]

Hypocritical post - you begin with consternation that I am attacking the poster, then you do the very same thing.

My point is that NRC / NLA were put there as a front. They are both staffed by party faithful, and are subordinate to the NCPO. Yet you believe that they will come up with some kind of independent reform process that benefits the citizenry as a whole. If that's the case, then why can't the citizenry have a say?

Apart from Prayuth's promises, as reported by an unabashedly censored press, why would you believe all this on face value? Why would you choose to completely ignore the historical precedence of military governments in Thailand?

You are either very gullible or very naive.

Even though you have addressed this to Rubi I would like to reply.

You start off by making an excuse as to why some should not take part in a reform process then ask "why can't the citizenry have a say?"

If the so called leaders did take part then the people would have a say.

Every sector has had a chance to take part and give input only there are some, one in particular, which refuse to give any input.

This is a sector which you and your fellow supporters claim has the support of the majority of the people yet they refuse to represent in a reform process those who they (and you) claim they represent.

If they truly had the interests of the people at heart and were willing to work for them then they would be in there with ideas to improve much needed things like education, health, justice, poverty, social problems and all the other things that need improving.

But no, the only focus they can see is on political reforms which will be designed to strengthen the laws under the previous constitution to keep criminals out of politics and make elections as free and fair as possible.

And why is this ? Because they know very well that and they and their patron have been the major transgressors, law breakers even, and are the most likely to be effected by any strengthened electoral law.

They are putting personal interest before the interest of the people they say they represent.

They keep up the same old bleat, the coup is illegal so we wont be part of it, that is beyond silly and into abject stupidity, we all know coup is against the law but it is a done deal and to sit there and squeal about it will get nowhere.

The only way to move forward to an election is to be part of a forward movement, refusing to take part or even working against will only slow the process and push elections even farther into the future.

But there are some who cant see that.

If you truly believe this, there is a Nigerian prince trying to get millions out of his country that I will put you in touch with.

[whybother]

Robbie, could you explain how one can participate in the reform process when you not in the NRC? BTW, the Dem is not represented in the NRC for obvious reason that it will be a conflict of interest in debating reform proposal; similar to PT' s view. Yes,the people can see and clearly too that any attempts to speak on reform can be arrested and hauled for attitude adjustment and spend time with the military.

Members of the NRC are not allowed to stand for election for 5 years, which is why Democrat and PTP politicians are not on the NRC. But, that doesn't mean that others that aren't planning to be MPs can't be involved.

Who has been arrested for speaking on reform? People have been arrested for speaking against the coup ... but that's different than speaking on reform.

[brucec64]

Robbie, could you explain how one can participate in the reform process when you not in the NRC? BTW, the Dem is not represented in the NRC for obvious reason that it will be a conflict of interest in debating reform proposal; similar to PT' s view. Yes,the people can see and clearly too that any attempts to speak on reform can be arrested and hauled for attitude adjustment and spend time with the military.

You haven't been paying attention, now have you. Mind you, as non-Thai you wouldn't be involved one way or another.

Thai could apply or be applied to join the various NRC committees. There were about 7,000 applications. Via some screening and shifting about 200 or so got appointed. That the NRC commison/committee structure. Now each commission has to formulate possible reforms in their appointed area. They must use their own expertise, via 'roadshow' like events try to get more of the public involved and everybody can provide input to them.

Of course some elect not to cooperate but adopt a 'wait-and-see' attitude, makes it easier to complain afterwards.

And after this elaborate process, the NCPO will simply go ahead and implement the reforms they need to keep the "right" people in power.

[brucec64]

Duplicate

Edited October 20, 2014 by brucec64

[rubl]

Robbie, could you explain how one can participate in the reform process when you not in the NRC? BTW, the Dem is not represented in the NRC for obvious reason that it will be a conflict of interest in debating reform proposal; similar to PT' s view. Yes,the people can see and clearly too that any attempts to speak on reform can be arrested and hauled for attitude adjustment and spend time with the military.

You haven't been paying attention, now have you. Mind you, as non-Thai you wouldn't be involved one way or another.

Thai could apply or be applied to join the various NRC committees. There were about 7,000 applications. Via some screening and shifting about 200 or so got appointed. That the NRC commison/committee structure. Now each commission has to formulate possible reforms in their appointed area. They must use their own expertise, via 'roadshow' like events try to get more of the public involved and everybody can provide input to them.

Of course some elect not to cooperate but adopt a 'wait-and-see' attitude, makes it easier to complain afterwards.

And after this elaborate process, the NCPO will simply go ahead and implement the reforms they need to keep the "right" people in power.

That's the number one excuse for not cooperating I think. Assume and follow on that assumption.

Anyway, although not wanting to interfere in the NRC process and work, the NCPO has listened to various complaints and has suggested the NRC to invite some foreign observers. No names have been given but Immigration is already processing the required documents to make them legal

Edited October 20, 2014 by rubl

[brucec64]

Robbie, could you explain how one can participate in the reform process when you not in the NRC? BTW, the Dem is not represented in the NRC for obvious reason that it will be a conflict of interest in debating reform proposal; similar to PT' s view. Yes,the people can see and clearly too that any attempts to speak on reform can be arrested and hauled for attitude adjustment and spend time with the military.

You haven't been paying attention, now have you. Mind you, as non-Thai you wouldn't be involved one way or another.

Thai could apply or be applied to join the various NRC committees. There were about 7,000 applications. Via some screening and shifting about 200 or so got appointed. That the NRC commison/committee structure. Now each commission has to formulate possible reforms in their appointed area. They must use their own expertise, via 'roadshow' like events try to get more of the public involved and everybody can provide input to them.

Of course some elect not to cooperate but adopt a 'wait-and-see' attitude, makes it easier to complain afterwards.

And after this elaborate process, the NCPO will simply go ahead and implement the reforms they need to keep the "right" people in power.

That's the number one excuse for not cooperating I think. Assume and follow on that assumption.

Anyway, although not wanting to interfere in the NRC process and work, the NCPO has listened to various complaints and has suggested the NRC to invite some foreign observers. No names have been given but Immigration is already processing the required documents to make them legal

NRC observers.jpg

http://www.nationmultimedia.com/politics/Military-outlines-sweeping-political-reforms-to-NR-30245054.html

Even though the military only made "suggestions", one does not ignore suggestions in this political climate. The first thing that the NRC received, on their first day of work, was the NCPO's shopping list. I consider this to be interference.

[Robespiere]

Come on guys, corruption is a lame excuse for the coup, most know the reason and there will be no election until after everything is done and dusted.

Corruption wasn't the excuse for the coup. Political stalemate and protest deaths were.

But The Red Shirt shills like to forget that, as it doesn't fit with their agenda.

Political stalemate and protestor deaths were the reasons for the coup?

OK then,

Why did the system breakdown and why did protestors take to the streets?

Accusations (mostly false, exaggerated and unsubstantiated) of corruption against the incumbent government.

ipso facto,

Corruption was the excuse for the coup.

ABC, as simple as 1,2,3 (for most of us anyway).