Somebody give me some good news PLEASE.

[jpeg]

I have been looking for property in Phuket for over a year, casually though. Meaning I keep an eye on some agent websites and check out places while driving around if I feel like doing so every now and then. But it's not like I really need something quickly. I think there are a bunch of other folks in a similar situation like me. There is just no pressing need (e.g. rapidly climbing prices) to buy urgently. The prices have gone so high in the past couple years that they are mostly unrealistic now. Thailand has not been the most stable country, then the visa crackdown scared a whole lot of people away. Combined with the fact that foreigners cannot own land, that makes property a tough sell if it's not a really good deal. If you can get property in another more stable but equally beautiful place, with less crime, scams, dirt and on top much less risk, why would you buy here?

Phuket is not a place for expats to live a nice family life. It wouldn't be my first choice for bringing kids up. It's not easy to get a well paying job for young people either. Tourists don't buy property. Most thais don't have the money to buy the luxury villas - they buy houses in secure estates or condos and for that they don't need an agent. So who is left? Retirees? They go for less expensive houses and have time to research on their own.

Properties are for sale for years on end and prices keep climbing. Doesn't make sense. There is no logic in the market here. Yes it's a buyers market but the market is <removed> up. No data available on recent sales, questionable build quality in many cases, countruction companies that bring the term "drive-by building" to my head also don't add anything positive.

I am now waiting for a solid crash and will pick up some good deal then. If I am still around here by then, depends on how Phuket can cope with its problems.

Good post, and what's it all telling you???? ..................................Rent - don't buy.

Unless you are someone who would prefer to live in a dwelling built themselves, befitting their individuality, alter at their own will, grow a garden to their own taste, have PETS! without the need to consult some 'landlord' being able to throw you out on a moments notice. Not worry about 'rent' and said landlord's ability to increase same as and when particularly if times get hard.

If, however, you really don't mind the any of the above, yes, rent. And forever be on your guard as to who holds the cards. The rest is BS. Including property 'investment' here.

[Chainsaw]

I have been looking for property in Phuket for over a year, casually though. Meaning I keep an eye on some agent websites and check out places while driving around if I feel like doing so every now and then. But it's not like I really need something quickly. I think there are a bunch of other folks in a similar situation like me. There is just no pressing need (e.g. rapidly climbing prices) to buy urgently. The prices have gone so high in the past couple years that they are mostly unrealistic now. Thailand has not been the most stable country, then the visa crackdown scared a whole lot of people away. Combined with the fact that foreigners cannot own land, that makes property a tough sell if it's not a really good deal. If you can get property in another more stable but equally beautiful place, with less crime, scams, dirt and on top much less risk, why would you buy here?

Phuket is not a place for expats to live a nice family life. It wouldn't be my first choice for bringing kids up. It's not easy to get a well paying job for young people either. Tourists don't buy property. Most thais don't have the money to buy the luxury villas - they buy houses in secure estates or condos and for that they don't need an agent. So who is left? Retirees? They go for less expensive houses and have time to research on their own.

Properties are for sale for years on end and prices keep climbing. Doesn't make sense. There is no logic in the market here. Yes it's a buyers market but the market is <removed> up. No data available on recent sales, questionable build quality in many cases, countruction companies that bring the term "drive-by building" to my head also don't add anything positive.

I am now waiting for a solid crash and will pick up some good deal then. If I am still around here by then, depends on how Phuket can cope with its problems.

Good post, and what's it all telling you???? ..................................Rent - don't buy.

Unless you are someone who would prefer to live in a dwelling built themselves, befitting their individuality, alter at their own will, grow a garden to their own taste, have PETS! without the need to consult some 'landlord' being able to throw you out on a moments notice. Not worry about 'rent' and said landlord's ability to increase same as and when particularly if times get hard.

If, however, you really don't mind the any of the above, yes, rent. And forever be on your guard as to who holds the cards. The rest is BS. Including property 'investment' here.

You described my situation exactly there jpeg. Great innit?

[NamKangMan]

I have been looking for property in Phuket for over a year, casually though. Meaning I keep an eye on some agent websites and check out places while driving around if I feel like doing so every now and then. But it's not like I really need something quickly. I think there are a bunch of other folks in a similar situation like me. There is just no pressing need (e.g. rapidly climbing prices) to buy urgently. The prices have gone so high in the past couple years that they are mostly unrealistic now. Thailand has not been the most stable country, then the visa crackdown scared a whole lot of people away. Combined with the fact that foreigners cannot own land, that makes property a tough sell if it's not a really good deal. If you can get property in another more stable but equally beautiful place, with less crime, scams, dirt and on top much less risk, why would you buy here?

Phuket is not a place for expats to live a nice family life. It wouldn't be my first choice for bringing kids up. It's not easy to get a well paying job for young people either. Tourists don't buy property. Most thais don't have the money to buy the luxury villas - they buy houses in secure estates or condos and for that they don't need an agent. So who is left? Retirees? They go for less expensive houses and have time to research on their own.

Properties are for sale for years on end and prices keep climbing. Doesn't make sense. There is no logic in the market here. Yes it's a buyers market but the market is <removed> up. No data available on recent sales, questionable build quality in many cases, countruction companies that bring the term "drive-by building" to my head also don't add anything positive.

I am now waiting for a solid crash and will pick up some good deal then. If I am still around here by then, depends on how Phuket can cope with its problems.

Good post, and what's it all telling you???? ..................................Rent - don't buy.

Unless you are someone who would prefer to live in a dwelling built themselves, befitting their individuality, alter at their own will, grow a garden to their own taste, have PETS! without the need to consult some 'landlord' being able to throw you out on a moments notice. Not worry about 'rent' and said landlord's ability to increase same as and when particularly if times get hard.

If, however, you really don't mind the any of the above, yes, rent. And forever be on your guard as to who holds the cards. The rest is BS. Including property 'investment' here.

Aren't we all just "renting" in Thailand - one way or another?

[Kaymcdonnell]

<script type='text/javascript'>window.mod_pagespeed_start = Number(new Date());</script>

You might be waiting a long time for a property crash in Phuket.

It has never happened, yet and I don't think it ever will.

The best you can hope for is a slowing of price increases, or, at best prices remain the same.

The reason for this is that most property owners own their properties outright. Property buying using a mortgage is rare for Thais and almost impossible for foreigners.

There are always distressed sales of houses by foreigners, but, land prices, so far, have never gone down as there is usually no pressure to sell.

That it didn't happend, doesn't mean it can't happen. But you made a good point that in nearly all cases there is just no need to sell. Unless the owner accumulated somehow debt that he needs to pay off. So we conclude there are not many buyers, the prices are high and there is no pressure to sell (apart from foreigners). That means the market is small and slow moving. That's a conclusion that seems fair enough. A few sellers aim for the moon in case they get lucky and otherwise sit back and relax.

Doesn't look like a market that is very attractive for a property agent though. And there are lots and lots of property agents around.

Thailand is mostly Buddhist.

A few things can be learned from this religion:

Number 1: Chainsaw is rightL Stop worrying about money.

It's accumulation has nothing to do with happiness.

Number 2: Patience is a great virtue.

Most Thais have a lot more than farangs.

That is one reason why prices don't go down.

Another idea we can learn from Thais: Live for today.

(And be glad you didn't take that trip to Nepal to hike the Annapurna circ this October)

Number 1: that's not true at all. Best proven by taking the inverse example: if you have no money you'll likely run into some pretty shitty situations that make you quite unhappy.

Number 2: I didn't experience this at all and I interact with Thais quite a bit. They have a big advantage though: they are Thais - no visa problems, no headache about ownership of land etc. Of course that is a huge advantage regarding property.

Number 3: What mostly happens is "Carpe Diem gone wrong". Most people (Thai or foreigner, doesn't matter) don't understand the concept properly. If you take it literally and don't plan ahead, well, you'll find yourself in a similar situation as outlined in Number 1. Why do so many people and whole countries run into debt they can hardly pay back? Proper foresight is the key to prosperity in the long run. It's the difference between a place that is still nice to live in within 50 years and one that is a dump within 5.

KayMcDonnell: let's make an experiment. You are a real estate agent right? So your job is it to sell me - as a potential buyer - some property. So go ahead and try to convince me why the current prices are fair and why I should buy one of your properties. I swear I will give my best to understand your arguments and realize the value a property has for me.

If you find it hard to do so, and maybe not only with me then it doesn't reflect well on the market.

HI well that is a challenge. I do not remember saying that the buyers were wrong. I also think that many properties are valued too high from sellers. There are bargains around. I do not know anyone buying land to loose money. I am just asking if there is a bright spark out there who knows when things will be more prosperous. It is easy to say that things are bad, what i want to know is who can say when it will be prosperous again?

[LivinginKata]

<snip>

It is easy to say that things are bad, what i want to know is who can say when it will be prosperous again?

From many answers here you see see that the outlook would appear not 'prosperous' in the short term. Would you believe anyone who claims that Phuket will be prosperous in year xxxx or xx months ??? I would not.

[Shot]

[NamKangMan]

<script type='text/javascript'>window.mod_pagespeed_start = Number(new Date());</script>

You might be waiting a long time for a property crash in Phuket.

It has never happened, yet and I don't think it ever will.

The best you can hope for is a slowing of price increases, or, at best prices remain the same.

The reason for this is that most property owners own their properties outright. Property buying using a mortgage is rare for Thais and almost impossible for foreigners.

There are always distressed sales of houses by foreigners, but, land prices, so far, have never gone down as there is usually no pressure to sell.

That it didn't happend, doesn't mean it can't happen. But you made a good point that in nearly all cases there is just no need to sell. Unless the owner accumulated somehow debt that he needs to pay off. So we conclude there are not many buyers, the prices are high and there is no pressure to sell (apart from foreigners). That means the market is small and slow moving. That's a conclusion that seems fair enough. A few sellers aim for the moon in case they get lucky and otherwise sit back and relax.

Doesn't look like a market that is very attractive for a property agent though. And there are lots and lots of property agents around.

Thailand is mostly Buddhist.

A few things can be learned from this religion:

Number 1: Chainsaw is rightL Stop worrying about money.

It's accumulation has nothing to do with happiness.

Number 2: Patience is a great virtue.

Most Thais have a lot more than farangs.

That is one reason why prices don't go down.

Another idea we can learn from Thais: Live for today.

(And be glad you didn't take that trip to Nepal to hike the Annapurna circ this October)

Number 1: that's not true at all. Best proven by taking the inverse example: if you have no money you'll likely run into some pretty shitty situations that make you quite unhappy.

Number 2: I didn't experience this at all and I interact with Thais quite a bit. They have a big advantage though: they are Thais - no visa problems, no headache about ownership of land etc. Of course that is a huge advantage regarding property.

Number 3: What mostly happens is "Carpe Diem gone wrong". Most people (Thai or foreigner, doesn't matter) don't understand the concept properly. If you take it literally and don't plan ahead, well, you'll find yourself in a similar situation as outlined in Number 1. Why do so many people and whole countries run into debt they can hardly pay back? Proper foresight is the key to prosperity in the long run. It's the difference between a place that is still nice to live in within 50 years and one that is a dump within 5.

KayMcDonnell: let's make an experiment. You are a real estate agent right? So your job is it to sell me - as a potential buyer - some property. So go ahead and try to convince me why the current prices are fair and why I should buy one of your properties. I swear I will give my best to understand your arguments and realize the value a property has for me.

If you find it hard to do so, and maybe not only with me then it doesn't reflect well on the market.

HI well that is a challenge. I do not remember saying that the buyers were wrong. I also think that many properties are valued too high from sellers. There are bargains around. I do not know anyone buying land to loose money. I am just asking if there is a bright spark out there who knows when things will be more prosperous. It is easy to say that things are bad, what i want to know is who can say when it will be prosperous again?

"Phuket" as a brand, is losing market share. Maybe not in tourist numbers, but in tourist dollars.

Chinese tourists have no intentions of retiring here. It's their culture to have their children look after them in their old age. That's not going to happen on Phuket. It's the same with the Indians. Some Russians are buying, but not a lot.

There are aging foreigners, who bought into Phuket in the 80's that are passing, and they are not being replaced by new retirees here.

They are still building, and building and building - so their is a massive oversupply, with no end in sight.

I do not see property becoming "prosperous" in the short term, or the long term, on Phuket, which is not offering a good product to tourists, by way of a holday, and has lost its appeal to retiring westerners.

[bubblegum]

OP did you ever read about Spain? As a realtor this would interest you a lot since it show similarities with Phuket. All of Spains beach regions were ghastly overbuild in the 70S and people just stopped coming. The result... ghost towns. Later, much later and with the help of huge EU loans they made the same mistake again resulting in never been lived in towns with thousands and thousands of brand new houses just rotting away and even a brand new airport where no plane has ever landed.

Now English expats are moving away from Thailand and going to YES Spain 'cause its much cheaper right now.

[hansgruber]

OP did you ever read about Spain? As a realtor this would interest you a lot since it show similarities with Phuket. All of Spains beach regions were ghastly overbuild in the 70S and people just stopped coming. The result... ghost towns. Later, much later and with the help of huge EU loans they made the same mistake again resulting in never been lived in towns with thousands and thousands of brand new houses just rotting away and even a brand new airport where no plane has ever landed.

Now English expats are moving away from Thailand and going to YES Spain 'cause its much cheaper right now.

Interesting.

I just read an article about the airports in Spain. Billions spent and many airports that dont see 200 people a day and even some havent serviced people for years. Not just small airports but huge ones.

Sent from my LG-D858

[Kaalle]

I just went to rawai for a look at some apartments.

7.8 million baht for a small 2 bedroom condo with one bathroom and 75sqm. On beach rd but no view.

2nd place was just as shocking. 10.9 million for 105sqm apartment.

Over 100k per sqm is outrageous, especially for rawai.

What's funny is they claim to rent them out for 90k a month. Yeah right.

Market here is ridiculous.

Sent from my LG-D858

I dont know anything about the property market in Phuket. But what I can see with my own eyes driving past both new and old condo buildings almost every day is the fact that the lights are always off in like 90% of the windows, at all hours. And its been like this for years. Maybe all these condo people like living in the dark.

[NamKangMan]

I just went to rawai for a look at some apartments.

7.8 million baht for a small 2 bedroom condo with one bathroom and 75sqm. On beach rd but no view.

2nd place was just as shocking. 10.9 million for 105sqm apartment.

Over 100k per sqm is outrageous, especially for rawai.

What's funny is they claim to rent them out for 90k a month. Yeah right.

Market here is ridiculous.

Sent from my LG-D858

I dont know anything about the property market in Phuket. But what I can see with my own eyes driving past both new and old condo buildings almost every day is the fact that the lights are always off in like 90% of the windows, at all hours. And its been like this for years. Maybe all these condo people like living in the dark.

Maybe they spend too much on buying the property and can't afford electric.

[manly100]

I have had a townhouse on the market for 2 months now, lukewarm interest. At 3 m baht it’s the cheapest I know of in Patong. So I think it’s a case of not enough buyers in the market. Very easy to find tenants willing to pay what seems to me to be high rents given the value of the property. I've always found houses in my area cheap compared to other resort towns. Just condos have always seemed over priced for what you get IMO. Of course when I see houses for sale for 45 million baht I can't help wondering who would think that’s value for money. I think you'll see houses priced reasonably and houses priced unreasonably for the foreseeable future as they have been in the past.

[bubblegum]

So OP looks like there is no good news 4 yah.

[Peterocket]

<snip>

It is easy to say that things are bad, what i want to know is who can say when it will be prosperous again?

From many answers here you see see that the outlook would appear not 'prosperous' in the short term. Would you believe anyone who claims that Phuket will be prosperous in year xxxx or xx months ??? I would not.

I'm sure the investors of the Blu Pearl 20bn baht mega mall disagree.

[NamKangMan]

<snip>

It is easy to say that things are bad, what i want to know is who can say when it will be prosperous again?

From many answers here you see see that the outlook would appear not 'prosperous' in the short term. Would you believe anyone who claims that Phuket will be prosperous in year xxxx or xx months ??? I would not.

I'm sure the investors of the Blu Pearl 20bn baht mega mall disagree.

Good Luck to them - they will need it.

[Peterocket]

<snip>

It is easy to say that things are bad, what i want to know is who can say when it will be prosperous again?

From many answers here you see see that the outlook would appear not 'prosperous' in the short term. Would you believe anyone who claims that Phuket will be prosperous in year xxxx or xx months ??? I would not.

I'm sure the investors of the Blu Pearl 20bn baht mega mall disagree.

Good Luck to them - they will need it.

If only their due diligence included checking the Thai Visa Phuket forum...think of the money they could have saved.

[NamKangMan]

@ Peterocket

Hey, if someone else is buying in, it must be a good investment, right?