Thailand's troubled tourism industry struggles to recover

[smedly]

If Thailand is the jaded, sinking destination which this article says it is - then why have airlines flying to Thailand got full or nearly full flights in December, April and July?

End of June I tried to book a ticket to Europe with China Airlines, and their site claimed the plane was full each and every day between the 1st of July till the 31st of October.

I called them up and they confirmed that it was all fully booked, and so did several travel agencies, so they suggested that I put myself on waiting list.

I did so at a random date, and within 15 minutes I received an email notification from China that both departure date and return date were confirmed. I later changed those dates at least 3 times with immediate confirmation.

Oh, by the way the ticket price was with a 40% discount over the normal price, and they have extended their promotion now till 31 December.

ALL major airlines have similar promotions for the past 4 months.

Clearly, the airlines are not concerned too much - their prices are sky-high!

You should climb from under that rock and look at that other thread in the travel forum. It is titled " I've never seen the prices that LOW"

it might appear that flights are full but that may not reflect what is going on compared to several years ago, available seats have probably come down in numbers as have number of flights due to airlines like Etihad partnering with other airlines in code share agreements, it is very rare now that you will find an Etihad flight with spare seats because fights out of and into Abu dabi are shared with other airlines, when you look at the departure board for your flight it will likely have up to 5 flight codes from various airlines all sharing the same plane - the same applies to UK flights heading to say Bangkok on that flight you will have people going to China Australia Malaysia India etc and flights leaving Abudabi for Bangkok will have passengers that booked with other airlines from other countries

No longer will you be sitting on a half empty plane but may have trouble getting a booking

[dcsw53]

Thailand bashing is questionable at the best of times ( if you are not happy here go and find another country to complain about ).

Why though does no one in authority have the wit to refute false allegations. Depending on who you believe tourism accounts for 10-12% of Thai GDP, not 19%.

The killings on Ko Tao were tragic, and I hope those responsible get convicted and suitably punished. They are not the only killings in this country of tourists, but please keep it in perspective. Murder rates per tourist are significantly higher in other countries such as Mexico and South Africa, where the press are loathe to do thier dirty washing in public.

Thailand has its faults, but they are nothing compared to p*ss poor journalism.

[KunMatt]

If Thailand is the jaded, sinking destination which this article says it is - then why have airlines flying to Thailand got full or nearly full flights in December, April and July?

Yes these are peak months, but they would be the first to experience a "19%" downturn.

Clearly, the airlines are not concerned too much - their prices are sky-high!

Also Hotels don't seem to have softened their prices to entice travellers.

We noticed a drop in Russian tourists in Koh Samui and Pattaya this year.

But this is probably due to the fact that Russky Dad is coming alone or that the Russians know they are just so unpopular they don't feel at all welcome.

I flew to the UK and back to Thailand again last month with Thai Air. Also saw that the website said the flight was almost full, later when I tried to check in online before the flight all of the seats were already allocated. When I actually got on both flights they were maybe 30% capacity at most. Everyone, and I mean literally everyone, had 2 vacant seats next to them and everyone was laying down and sleeping for the whole flight. Rarely ever see anything like this.

Led me to believe that Thai Air was trying to trump up business by pretending that there were only a couple of tickets left on the flights which in reality were almost empty.

[smedly]

Thailand bashing is questionable at the best of times ( if you are not happy here go and find another country to complain about ).

Why though does no one in authority have the wit to refute false allegations. Depending on who you believe tourism accounts for 10-12% of Thai GDP, not 19%.

The killings on Ko Tao were tragic, and I hope those responsible get convicted and suitably punished. They are not the only killings in this country of tourists, but please keep it in perspective. Murder rates per tourist are significantly higher in other countries such as Mexico and South Africa, where the press are loathe to do thier dirty washing in public.

Thailand has its faults, but they are nothing compared to p*ss poor journalism.

Yes Thailand has it's faults and they have had 30+ years to evolve and fix them but instead ignored the possibilities and potential and are now complaining about a decline in tourist numbers.........go figure

and I wouldn't call it bashing as such - it is criticism in the hope that someone will actually take notice and do something about it

Thailand is a country of talkers and not doers - they constantly talking it up when in reality there is nothing there or if it is there it is not of their doing but they like to believe it is - there is a serious reality check needed here - the last one was in 1997

[Suffinator]

The Thais like a bit of short time, by that I mean they seem so concerned with the 2 week holiday gang spending money.

How about making it more appealing for the expats and potential expats that would stimulate the economy all year round!

Don't be silly. That would require a bit of consideration as to the value of foreigners. Only last week some Thai nut job was banging the drum of nationalism stating that Thailand could live in isolation.

When you have a nation that truly believes in their own hype of superiority then nothing will change. The expat community is worth billions and yet they still treat expats like fodder to be used and abused. So glad I don't live there any more.

[Nigeone]

If Thailand is the jaded, sinking destination which this article says it is - then why have airlines flying to Thailand got full or nearly full flights in December, April and July?

End of June I tried to book a ticket to Europe with China Airlines, and their site claimed the plane was full each and every day between the 1st of July till the 31st of October.

I called them up and they confirmed that it was all fully booked, and so did several travel agencies, so they suggested that I put myself on waiting list.

I did so at a random date, and within 15 minutes I received an email notification from China that both departure date and return date were confirmed. I later changed those dates at least 3 times with immediate confirmation.

Oh, by the way the ticket price was with a 40% discount over the normal price, and they have extended their promotion now till 31 December.

ALL major airlines have similar promotions for the past 4 months.

Clearly, the airlines are not concerned too much - their prices are sky-high!

You should climb from under that rock and look at that other thread in the travel forum. It is titled " I've never seen the prices that LOW"

it might appear that flights are full but that may not reflect what is going on compared to several years ago, available seats have probably come down in numbers as have number of flights due to airlines like Etihad partnering with other airlines in code share agreements, it is very rare now that you will find an Etihad flight with spare seats because fights out of and into Abu dabi are shared with other airlines, when you look at the departure board for your flight it will likely have up to 5 flight codes from various airlines all sharing the same plane - the same applies to UK flights heading to say Bangkok on that flight you will have people going to China Australia Malaysia India etc and flights leaving Abudabi for Bangkok will have passengers that booked with other airlines from other countries

No longer will you be sitting on a half empty plane but may have trouble getting a booking

I posted.on another forum about Etihad flights..I flew in on25/26th Sept and Adu Dhabi to Bangkok was half full..I always travel Etihad and have never seen this before..usually full as you say..A friend I was speaking to in hotel in Bangkok flew Thai Heathrow to Bangkok and they had 3 or 4 seats each as did everyone on the flight.

The cost of my flight Sept 25 return Dec 6th from the Isle of Man via Manchester /Abu Dhabi /Bangkok £528..

that's £120 cheaper than its ever been since 2003

[akampa]

I clearly remember coming to Thailand for a vacation in the late 80`s and going to Samui a few good hotels but mainly low cost and beach huts by the water fun clean and exotic place to visit but over the years the save place was developed in a very unprofessional way,I never returned around the 90`s Malaysia Penang was the place we went this time staying at a 5 star hotel ,the island was still interesting in a non tourist way ,again years later development inevitability happened shopping malls high rise condos going up around the island but these developments were not losing the character or feel of the place too much and renovation of old historic building also helped , good infrastructure made it easy to get around the island.These 2 examples I made from my experience shows what can be achieved .Today I am married to a Thai lady with 2 year old baby living in Chiang ,Mai we have had a vacation on Samui Lamy area I was sad to see the deterioration of the Island there still quiet places to visit where no tourists go which are few and far between,but I think we will probably not go again,pity and what a wasted opportunity to make it truly amazing.

[draftvader]

..which makes up more than a fifth of the economy..

Over the years I have been here this figure has varied massively. This is closer to my personal, gut, feeling on the matter (15-25%). The way that tourism issues make headline news here always put it above everything I had seen quoted before. Add in another couple of rice messes (poor harvests due to poor irrigation leading to drought or flooding) and this will move up closer to 40%. That same flooding issue will also put off new investment in manufacturing here too and they could see this heading closer to 50-60%. We all know that the car companies were spooked by the flooding in 2011 and everything was "made up" with an poorly thought out "first car" scheme that was rapidly put in place like a band-aid at the time.

Every single threat that is observed is met with scant regard around here. Proper flood defences? An idea that was never fully implemented but was always fundamentally flawed and focussed on solving the issue with further development rather than the promotion of selective planting, etc to make the ground hold more water. National infrastructure underinvestment (or the consequence of graft) is destroying this country. For each bloated political pocket there is another less efficient part of this country. These are noticed by the international customers that bring the money into the country. 2 more floods affecting the trade parks or another decade without serious investment in a national infrastructure project and it will be game over.

Myanmar should be ready to pounce by then.

[Orac]

..which makes up more than a fifth of the economy..

Over the years I have been here this figure has varied massively. This is closer to my personal, gut, feeling on the matter (15-25%). The way that tourism issues make headline news here always put it above everything I had seen quoted before. Add in another couple of rice messes (poor harvests due to poor irrigation leading to drought or flooding) and this will move up closer to 40%. That same flooding issue will also put off new investment in manufacturing here too and they could see this heading closer to 50-60%. We all know that the car companies were spooked by the flooding in 2011 and everything was "made up" with an poorly thought out "first car" scheme that was rapidly put in place like a band-aid at the time.

Every single threat that is observed is met with scant regard around here. Proper flood defences? An idea that was never fully implemented but was always fundamentally flawed and focussed on solving the issue with further development rather than the promotion of selective planting, etc to make the ground hold more water. National infrastructure underinvestment (or the consequence of graft) is destroying this country. For each bloated political pocket there is another less efficient part of this country. These are noticed by the international customers that bring the money into the country. 2 more floods affecting the trade parks or another decade without serious investment in a national infrastructure project and it will be game over.

Myanmar should be ready to pounce by then.

You make good points there which lead to a bigger issue. My concern would be that tourism figures can be looked at as a warning of far deeper problems in that foreigners are rapidly losing confidence in Thailand and this is just the first real indicator since it can react quicker to changes.

Though many would choose to deny it given the nationalistic attitudes that abound, Thailand is very much dependent on foreigners. Be it tourism, foreign direct investment and the markets these foreign controlled factories supply, or the many countries that buy Thailand's agricultural products such as rice, rubber and sugar.

I hope I am wrong but feel a terrible sense of foreboding that we are just seeing the tip of a far bigger iceberg in these figures.

Sent from my iPad using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

Edited October 23, 2014 by Orac

[jewel]

If Thailand is the jaded, sinking destination which this article says it is - then why have airlines flying to Thailand got full or nearly full flights in December, April and July?

End of June I tried to book a ticket to Europe with China Airlines, and their site claimed the plane was full each and every day between the 1st of July till the 31st of October.

I called them up and they confirmed that it was all fully booked, and so did several travel agencies, so they suggested that I put myself on waiting list.

I did so at a random date, and within 15 minutes I received an email notification from China that both departure date and return date were confirmed. I later changed those dates at least 3 times with immediate confirmation.

Oh, by the way the ticket price was with a 40% discount over the normal price, and they have extended their promotion now till 31 December.

ALL major airlines have similar promotions for the past 4 months.

Clearly, the airlines are not concerned too much - their prices are sky-high!

You should climb from under that rock and look at that other thread in the travel forum. It is titled " I've never seen the prices that LOW"

I paid 600 (over christmas, would consider that as peak season) with emirates, almost every day i receive e-mails with promotions from europe to bangkok (starting at 525), if i check july/august 2015 i get prices less than 700 ,....

Thats far from sky high. And many people, including myself, use bangkok as a hub due to the flight fares.

[Tim207]

He means rip-off prices for farangs, away from the major malls. And it's true. If you don't think there's a 2 tier system, you haven't been here long enough. What costs a Thai 20 Baht will cost you 35 Baht. What costs a Thai 500 baht will cost you 800 Baht - ignoring the large chain stores, that is.

Maybe you just need to get away from tourist areas.

Never lived in a tourist area. Far from it. There's still a 2 tier system, or do you disagree?

In my experience it is a very rare exception and not the rule in my area.

[Tokay]

You mean tourists don't want to experience martial law?

[joecoolfrog]

I recently booked Eva air flights direct Heathrow - Bangkok £543 return . For high season ( Out Dec back Feb ) that is very cheap indeed.

[CapGary]

On the positive side, think of the money they will save on having to give out 19% less tourist bracelets

[SteveFong]

<script type='text/javascript'>window.mod_pagespeed_start = Number(new Date());</script>

Thailand needs to lift its game in a more competitive market hot air and empty promises only go so far.

Lets keep in mind the global economy plays in if people have the money to vacation or not. Also the past 10 years of Thailand manipulating the BAHT rate (keeping it strong against the dollar). This past year averaged 30baht where as the Philippine paso averaged 41.

You make a good point. Let's take my experience.

I started organising informal trips in 1999 with a largish group, to play golf for 2/3 weeks.

At that time the pound was around 72 baht. The economics of that can be roughly shown below.

1996

Nice hotel in Pattaya.......700 baht/night for 20 nights. 14000 or 194 (UK)

Golf around Pattaya.........1000 baht (with tip) x 10 10000 or 138 (UK)

Eating/drinking etc (roughly) 2000 a day x 20 40000 or 555 (UK)

Others (Taxi's/trips etc) (roughly) 400 a day x 20 8000 or 111 (UK)

Air fare .....varies I know but about 450 (UK)

Total 1448 (UK)

So you could have a great holiday during the UK winter with all the 'charm' of Thailand at that time.

Now, with the UK pound at 52 (has dropped as low as 46) I would estimate that the same 20 day holiday would cost

Nice hotel in Pattaya 1500 x 20 30000 or 576 (UK)

Golf 2000 x 10 20000 384 (UK)

Eating out etc (guess) 2000 x 20 40000 769 (UK)

Others (Lets say 500 a day) x 20 10000 192 (UK)

Air fare....varies can be around 700-800 with Emirates 750 (UK)

Total 2671 (UK)

Now, I know we could argue those figures all day, (e.g. there are cheaper hotel rooms and maybe you can get better airfares if you fly with Aeroflot etc).

But, this group I used to come with were the quality tourists that Thailand talks about. We had many couples from the golf club.

95% of that group packed it in a few years ago as it was simply too expensive, they might as well go to Spain or Portugal. Plus, the 'magic' of Thailand wears off (as many TVF posters are well aware).

Throw in murders, military coups and the rest and you can see why the 'quality' tourists, at least from the UK are down.(I use that expression loosely, as the TAT seem to love it) When you are spending 5 grand for a couple on holiday you're going to be more selective than previously.

The poster is from the USA I suspect, but the experience may well be the same for his country. I don't know.

I am from the US

Thailand is known for a few things,

The elephant rides,

The very nice hotels which are 1/3 the price of a US stay, in he same exact room, ex. Peninsula, Four Seasons, etc.,

Thai sticks, which apparently were only a Vietnam era opportunity

and,

young, pretty smiling

prostitutes

oh, and, everyone always asks,

ladyboys

TAT hasn't had any positive effect here

There is a large billboard for Thai Airways in Los Angeles as you take he long way to LAX from Venice, but

the Thai's I met in LA. never plan to return

the Thai's I meet in Miami, don't even want to talk about Thailand

Now, you meet a Haitian or a Cuban in the US and all they talk about is their country

not the same w the Thai's in the US, they are ashamed of their country

[SteveFong]

..which makes up more than a fifth of the economy..

Over the years I have been here this figure has varied massively. This is closer to my personal, gut, feeling on the matter (15-25%). The way that tourism issues make headline news here always put it above everything I had seen quoted before. Add in another couple of rice messes (poor harvests due to poor irrigation leading to drought or flooding) and this will move up closer to 40%. That same flooding issue will also put off new investment in manufacturing here too and they could see this heading closer to 50-60%. We all know that the car companies were spooked by the flooding in 2011 and everything was "made up" with an poorly thought out "first car" scheme that was rapidly put in place like a band-aid at the time.

Every single threat that is observed is met with scant regard around here. Proper flood defences? An idea that was never fully implemented but was always fundamentally flawed and focussed on solving the issue with further development rather than the promotion of selective planting, etc to make the ground hold more water. National infrastructure underinvestment (or the consequence of graft) is destroying this country. For each bloated political pocket there is another less efficient part of this country. These are noticed by the international customers that bring the money into the country. 2 more floods affecting the trade parks or another decade without serious investment in a national infrastructure project and it will be game over.

Myanmar should be ready to pounce by then.

You make good points there which lead to a bigger issue. My concern would be that tourism figures can be looked at as a warning of far deeper problems in that foreigners are rapidly losing confidence in Thailand and this is just the first real indicator since it can react quicker to changes.

Though many would choose to deny it given the nationalistic attitudes that abound, Thailand is very much dependent on foreigners. Be it tourism, foreign direct investment and the markets these foreign controlled factories supply, or the many countries that buy Thailand's agricultural products such as rice, rubber and sugar.

I hope I am wrong but feel a terrible sense of foreboding that we are just seeing the tip of a far bigger iceberg in these figures.

Sent from my iPad using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

What hasn't been mentioned yet,

is the looming defaults of all those who operate businesses that were affected during the protests, then the coup, then the curfew,

people who were operating nightlife establishments were hit hard,

but that didnt stop their debt from accruing, and gaining interest

the reality is that without a strong finish to the high season, many of them will just throw in the towel,

the good news, there are more low paying jobs in ever increasing retail malls, so at least the young, will be able to work

[ericnoodeeka]

alot of very negative responses on here.

i just returned from a trip with my family to south korea and japan, and ohhh my god did i open my eyes.

yes, both countries are absolute spotless and clean. but my god, the price of food shocked me.

at least 2.5 times the rate as here in thai.

also the hotels, well a room is at least 150% more expensive and the size of a shoe box.

although we had a great holiday and enjoyed all of it, flying back into bangkok, i looked forward to a hotel with a living room, kitchen, 2 double beds and a first class shower/bath and toilet.

yes, it is more hustle and bustle, more poluted, more crazy, but he, i like that.

after reading all the gloom and doom on here for 7 year, been here 6, i still think it has alot to offer, and i think the only reason, that the tourist numbers are down, is because of martial law, nothing else.

because it means your travel insurance is void.

when that is lifted, it will be boooming again.

p.s. to all the english professors on here, who always attack others for their spelling and grammar, english is not my first language, it my 4th.

to remind all these clowns in this cateory, its a forum u numpties, not an english class or lecture.

peace.

[SteveFong]

Eric,

we know Japan is tight,

but you lumped them both together

are you saying there is now no difference between S Korea and Japan?

that wouldnt make much sense, but, I have never been to either

[joecoolfrog]

Eric

I doubt that the average family who visited Thailand , especially beach lovers , would switch to Japan or South Korea. I would think the likes of Vietnam or Malaysia would be better comparisons.

[Fred Flinstone]

alot of very negative responses on here.

i just returned from a trip with my family to south korea and japan, and ohhh my god did i open my eyes.

yes, both countries are absolute spotless and clean. but my god, the price of food shocked me.

at least 2.5 times the rate as here in thai.

also the hotels, well a room is at least 150% more expensive and the size of a shoe box.

although we had a great holiday and enjoyed all of it, flying back into bangkok, i looked forward to a hotel with a living room, kitchen, 2 double beds and a first class shower/bath and toilet.

yes, it is more hustle and bustle, more poluted, more crazy, but he, i like that.

after reading all the gloom and doom on here for 7 year, been here 6, i still think it has alot to offer, and i think the only reason, that the tourist numbers are down, is because of martial law, nothing else.

because it means your travel insurance is void.

when that is lifted, it will be boooming again.

p.s. to all the english professors on here, who always attack others for their spelling and grammar, english is not my first language, it my 4th.

to remind all these clowns in this cateory, its a forum u numpties, not an english class or lecture.

peace.

Was in Japan recently - as we pro actively Boycotted Thailand to send a message to the People allowing The Horrible side show around DAVID and Hannah to continue-

Japan was refreshing - and so safe and Clean and vibrant -

The Rail pass *(high speed ) was a great way to move about the country-

Hotels were cleaner and neater than Thailand's in general.

Yes no problem with Travel Insurance unlike Thailand.

And it was surprisingly affordable-

Its not a Place where a Cheap Charlie would thrive Like the seedy haunts of Thailand-

But you don't get the tank Top drunks and Prostitutes lurking around the place with your family asking questions.

""Why is that old man holding hands with that girl Daddy"

In other words its a refreshing change from dubious Thailand who lacks Moral clarity and Quality (Where Tourism is concerned)

The feeling of safety was paramount and you were more aware that its safer.

Over all - its just a nice change to hustle and Bustle and scammers constantly bothering you-

No grizzly murders on fellow Tourists and it was far more civilised .

Recommended

[SteveFong]

you mean, no girls with very dark skin cackling the word

"mah- saaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaage?"

baffling

[chooka]

I see in another thread that they are expecting 51 million during the high season.

Thailand live Thursday

[Balance]

The Thais like a bit of short time, by that I mean they seem so concerned with the 2 week holiday gang spending money.

How about making it more appealing for the expats and potential expats that would stimulate the economy all year round!

Good point. It seems to be clear that Americans will retire with a lot less money than they thought they would have. This means that a percentage of these folks will be looking at retiring overseas. Thailand could do many things at very little cost to make it much more attractive to retire here:

Here are three. I am sure others have plenty more.

1. Allow ownership of one house for married couples.

2. Assure that all expats have access to health care that does not penalize for preexisting conditions and can be canceled if premiums are paid. Extension of the Gold Card system may be easiest solution.

3. Allow expats to work on-line with foreign companies.

[tim armstrong]

Its a pity that the majority of tourists want to be near a beach with nightlife, around Changmai, or exploring Bangkok. They never see rural thailand or meet anyone outside a city. There is so much more to see and do. Its also a shame that the TAT doesn't ask some expats for their input. We were all tourists once, and probably have some useful insights. Places like Vietnam and Cambodia have made some great efforts at understanding tourists needs and are rapidly gaining the tourist ground. I love thailand and am annoyed by it at the same time. The TAT should all be sent o/s for a while to understand the rest of the world.

[retsdon]

If Thailand is the jaded, sinking destination which this article says it is - then why have airlines flying to Thailand got full or nearly full flights in December, April and July?

Yes these are peak months, but they would be the first to experience a "19%" downturn.

Maybe they have. Gulf Air have binned a bunch of flights from Bahrain to Swampy, supposedly for the 'low winter season'. These are flights that have been operating on a daily basis for at least the last 8 years. But you're probably right. After all, it stands to reason that if you reduce what used to be daily flights to bi-weekly, the remaining planes will likely be full.

[MJP]

'nother one removed.

[LuckyLew]

About time tourists wake up and realize Thailand is no longer wjat it was. Thais seem to think that people will just keep coming no matter what. Too much bad press fro to many bad events. With the media and social media all over every story soomer or later people are gonna learn that Thailans is not what it used to be. Seems that might be upon Thailans now

[japsportscarmad]

About time tourists wake up and realize Thailand is no longer wjat it was. Thais seem to think that people will just keep coming no matter what. Too much bad press fro to many bad events. With the media and social media all over every story soomer or later people are gonna learn that Thailans is not what it used to be. Seems that might be upon Thailans now

Thailands a lot safer now than it was 30'years ago so not sure how long ago you started coming to get back to "what it used to be"

[joecoolfrog]

In what respect is Thailand safer now than it was 30 years ago. I would like to know how such a statement can be quantified. I would say the biggest safety issue in Thailand is on the roads , in 15 years I have witnessed zero improvement in either driving standards or effective law enforcement.

[NamKAheng]

Great job Thailand, in the Phuket Wan today, there is an article about a tourist scam by the jet ski mafia for 50000 Baht. Shame on you Phuket and Thailand, the jet ski problem is all over the Internet for many years and you did nothing.