New York doctor tests positive for Ebola

[manarak]

Internet users are supposed to be more clever than the average, but that doesn't seem to mean much, judging from several posts.

One thing I notice is that medical personnel is getting infected with Ebola - I suspect the cause for this to be the virus itself, being probably more contagious in certain situations than the textbooks say.

In particular, I guess Ebola is transmitting itself by aerosol, or better said, by droplets, which can float for a short time in the air before depositing, for example when someone sneezes.

Medical personnel is probably not protecting itself adequately against aerosol vector.

[rgs2001uk]

I have just viewed using several sources a video of NYC police officers discarding rubber gloves and masks after leaving the apartment of the Ebola patient Dr. Spencer - placing the possibly contaminated articles into a sidewalk open trash container... Seems the lessons of Dallas Texas and Ebola are not being learned or passed on ...

I cannot post a link to this video because of excessive protectionism of the video where it is mixed into an array of still photos and videos making a clear link to view it nearly impossible ... Hopefully a clear - clean link will surface.

However - what I viewed shows a continuation of ignorance beyond any reason for people who are supposed to be trained to protect the public.

You should have heard CNN trying to explain that away today when it was breaking news.

Personally I preferred the Fox news version of events.

The blind leading the blind.

Nigeria, no known cases, why, they have travel restrictions.

The good Doc should have been put into a quarantine zone as soon as he left the plane, why he was ever allowed to board it in the first place is a mystery.

[MJP]

Millions of Ebola vaccine doses by end of 2015, WHO says

Millions of doses of experimental Ebola vaccines will be produced by the end of 2015, the World Health Organization has announced.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-29756301

[Chicog]

I have just viewed using several sources a video of NYC police officers discarding rubber gloves and masks after leaving the apartment of the Ebola patient Dr. Spencer - placing the possibly contaminated articles into a sidewalk open trash container... Seems the lessons of Dallas Texas and Ebola are not being learned or passed on ...

I cannot post a link to this video because of excessive protectionism of the video where it is mixed into an array of still photos and videos making a clear link to view it nearly impossible ... Hopefully a clear - clean link will surface.

However - what I viewed shows a continuation of ignorance beyond any reason for people who are supposed to be trained to protect the public.

Infowars.com right?

[Chicog]

You're OK it's on Russia Today as well.

http://rt.com/usa/199016-nypd-ebola-waste-garbage/

Added: Here's your really big clue:

Authorities inside the apartment were reportedly wearing hazmat suits, so its possible that the gear-discarding officers were only on patrol outside the building.

Edited October 24, 2014 by Chicog

[balo]

So this doctor went to Europe first on his way to New York ? God knows how many people he could have infected on his way .

I truly believe we are talking about a global disaster here , this is not the swine flu , its much worse and no vaccines available. .

[attrayant]

So this doctor went to Europe first on his way to New York ? God knows how many people he could have infected on his way.

Zero. He could have infected zero people along the way.

ZERO.

If you don't understand why, then you haven't been paying attention.

[MJP]

So this doctor went to Europe first on his way to New York ? God knows how many people he could have infected on his way.

Zero. He could have infected zero people along the way.

ZERO.

If you don't understand why, then you haven't been paying attention.

Ebola sufferers aren't contagious until symptomatic?

[attrayant]

Correct. Ebola fact sheet:

Signs and Symptoms

A person infected with Ebola is not contagious until symptoms appear. Signs and Symptoms of Ebola typically include:

• Fever (greater than 38.6°C or 101.5°F)

• Severe headache

• Muscle pain

• Vomiting

• Diarrhea

• Stomach pain

• Unexplained bleeding or bruising

Symptoms may appear anywhere from 2 to 21 days after exposure to Ebola but the average is 8 to 10 days. Recovery from Ebola depends on the patient’s immune response. People who recover from Ebola infection develop antibodies that last for at least 10 years.

[hawker9000]

Health workers are at risk at contact with fluids from infected people showing symptoms. I think the subway people are OK unless he was vomiting or something like that.

How about sweat? As in leaving it on a seat, or a pole or handhold in the subway. He bowled, and jogged 3 miles...

I've heard different reports about his progressing from just some "lethargy" the night before - which is when he & his fiancé isolated themselves in his apt - to the 103deg fever the next morning. At least one report I heard included diarrhea & vomiting in the "next morning" resume. Is that fact or speculation or assumption? Important to know...

Does an Ebola victim go from symptomless (the "lethargy" thing sounds like something a non-doctor might not even recognize...) to fever+diarrhea+vomiting literally overnight? If so, then there's just no question that returning Americans (caregivers) need to be quarantined for a minimum of 21 days (and THEN tested!). Sending someone who's KNOWN to have been in contact with Ebola patients out into the public on a "self-monitored" basis, who can develop from non-symptomatic to the extreme contagion stage so quickly, is absolutely insane. CDC (as well as HHS) should know this, and should've been advising publicly and loudly and insistently from the first! But of course, that gets into politics and our "nothing-to-do-with-it" prez.

[MJP]

Health workers are at risk at contact with fluids from infected people showing symptoms. I think the subway people are OK unless he was vomiting or something like that.

How about sweat? As in leaving it on a seat, or a pole or handhold in the subway. He bowled, and jogged 3 miles...

I've heard different reports about his progressing from just some "lethargy" the night before - which is when he & his fiancé isolated themselves in his apt - to the 103deg fever the next morning. At least one report I heard included diarrhea & vomiting in the "next morning" resume. Is that fact or speculation or assumption? Important to know...

Does an Ebola victim go from symptomless (the "lethargy" thing sounds like something a non-doctor might not even recognize...) to fever+diarrhea+vomiting literally overnight? If so, then there's just no question that returning Americans (caregivers) need to be quarantined for a minimum of 21 days (and THEN tested!). Sending someone who's KNOWN to have been in contact with Ebola patients out into the public on a "self-monitored" basis, who can develop from non-symptomatic to the extreme contagion stage so quickly, is absolutely insane. CDC (as well as HHS) should know this, and should've been advising publicly and loudly and insistently from the first! But of course, that gets into politics and our "nothing-to-do-with-it" prez.

From what little I understand I think the viral load in the body has to reach a particular amount to first become detectable by present testing and then to become contagious. By the time the viral load is sufficient to do the latter the patient will be showing obvious symptoms.

[bkkcanuck8]

I guess now that the "outbreak" of ebola in Dallas seems to have been contained and both nurses that were infected with ebola Nina Pham and Amber Vinson have both been tested to be FREE of the ebola virus.... we can now all go crazy and panic about the "out of control" outbreak in NY City

[Chicog]

I guess now that the "outbreak" of ebola in Dallas seems to have been contained and both nurses that were infected with ebola Nina Pham and Amber Vinson have both been tested to be FREE of the ebola virus.... we can now all go crazy and panic about the "out of control" outbreak in NY City

I wonder if people know that they don't keep track of all those "planet killer" roaming asteroids out there?

[Credo]

This 'outbreak' of Ebola in the US seems to indicate that there is a lot more concern for the state of people's mental condition, than any physical danger presented by the disease.

[hawker9000]

Health workers are at risk at contact with fluids from infected people showing symptoms. I think the subway people are OK unless he was vomiting or something like that.

How about sweat? As in leaving it on a seat, or a pole or handhold in the subway. He bowled, and jogged 3 miles...

I've heard different reports about his progressing from just some "lethargy" the night before - which is when he & his fiancé isolated themselves in his apt - to the 103deg fever the next morning. At least one report I heard included diarrhea & vomiting in the "next morning" resume. Is that fact or speculation or assumption? Important to know...

Does an Ebola victim go from symptomless (the "lethargy" thing sounds like something a non-doctor might not even recognize...) to fever+diarrhea+vomiting literally overnight? If so, then there's just no question that returning Americans (caregivers) need to be quarantined for a minimum of 21 days (and THEN tested!). Sending someone who's KNOWN to have been in contact with Ebola patients out into the public on a "self-monitored" basis, who can develop from non-symptomatic to the extreme contagion stage so quickly, is absolutely insane. CDC (as well as HHS) should know this, and should've been advising publicly and loudly and insistently from the first! But of course, that gets into politics and our "nothing-to-do-with-it" prez.

From what little I understand I think the viral load in the body has to reach a particular amount to first become detectable by present testing and then to become contagious. By the time the viral load is sufficient to do the latter the patient will be showing obvious symptoms.

Yes, but the question is, just how fast does somebody go from having no symptoms, to throwing up, having diarrhea, maybe sweating Ebola-laden sweat, etc.? It matters because this is the whole basis of the airport screening currently taking place at the 5 airports in the U.S. If you have no fever or symptoms, they just make a note of where you're headed, and let you into the population, with the expectation that if/when you experience any symptoms, you'll call 9-1-1 (or whatever) and you can be isolated before you're actually that contagious. I kind o' thought that if fever is the first symptom, and you get isolated right at that point, it'll be before you've reached the point where you're "shedding the virus" (as they're calling it now) via your bodily fluids (vomit, diarrhea, etc.), i.e., dangerous to others. Is that a valid understanding?

An infected Thomas Duncan flew to the U.S. via Brussels, stayed home for 5-6 days (if memory serves), went to the hospital with symptoms, went home, went back to the hospital two days later (presumably with much worse symptoms by then), and only then managed to infect anybody, and those were two nurses caring directly for him. One of those two nurses became infected, flew all the way to Cleveland, I think was pretty careful about getting "close" to friends or family, but then flew back to Dallas, and apparently infected nobody in the process at all. The photojournalist who came back to the U.S. from W. Africa infected also apparently didn't infect anybody else at all, and is now well himself again. Now they're tracking down people this doctor in NYC came into contact with; I guess we don't know how that's going to turn out yet (it'll be interesting to see if his fiancé turns out to be OK, but so far even family members & "intimates" seem to NOT be getting infected). But assuming he hasn't infected anyone... That all suggests to me that the disease can't be all that "instantaneously infectious" after the fever comes on, but instead later - even if only a few days later - after symptoms have intensified.

'Course all this goes up in smoke if infected people start coming out of the woodwork. That's apparently NOT going to happen with Duncan's family or the group of caregivers in Dallas since they've successfully reached the end of their quarantine (or "monitoring", or whatever it was...). But I guess it still potentially could WRT people exposed by Amber Vinson or by this Dr. Craig Spencer character - it just seems less & less likely.

[JDGRUEN]

Health workers are at risk at contact with fluids from infected people showing symptoms. I think the subway people are OK unless he was vomiting or something like that.

How about sweat? As in leaving it on a seat, or a pole or handhold in the subway. He bowled, and jogged 3 miles...

I've heard different reports about his progressing from just some "lethargy" the night before - which is when he & his fiancé isolated themselves in his apt - to the 103deg fever the next morning. At least one report I heard included diarrhea & vomiting in the "next morning" resume. Is that fact or speculation or assumption? Important to know...

Does an Ebola victim go from symptomless (the "lethargy" thing sounds like something a non-doctor might not even recognize...) to fever+diarrhea+vomiting literally overnight? If so, then there's just no question that returning Americans (caregivers) need to be quarantined for a minimum of 21 days (and THEN tested!). Sending someone who's KNOWN to have been in contact with Ebola patients out into the public on a "self-monitored" basis, who can develop from non-symptomatic to the extreme contagion stage so quickly, is absolutely insane. CDC (as well as HHS) should know this, and should've been advising publicly and loudly and insistently from the first! But of course, that gets into politics and our "nothing-to-do-with-it" prez.

From what little I understand I think the viral load in the body has to reach a particular amount to first become detectable by present testing and then to become contagious. By the time the viral load is sufficient to do the latter the patient will be showing obvious symptoms.

Yes, but the question is, just how fast does somebody go from having no symptoms, to throwing up, having diarrhea, maybe sweating Ebola-laden sweat, etc.? It matters because this is the whole basis of the airport screening currently taking place at the 5 airports in the U.S. If you have no fever or symptoms, they just make a note of where you're headed, and let you into the population, with the expectation that if/when you experience any symptoms, you'll call 9-1-1 (or whatever) and you can be isolated before you're actually that contagious. I kind o' thought that if fever is the first symptom, and you get isolated right at that point, it'll be before you've reached the point where you're "shedding the virus" (as they're calling it now) via your bodily fluids (vomit, diarrhea, etc.), i.e., dangerous to others. Is that a valid understanding?

An infected Thomas Duncan flew to the U.S. via Brussels, stayed home for 5-6 days (if memory serves), went to the hospital with symptoms, went home, went back to the hospital two days later (presumably with much worse symptoms by then), and only then managed to infect anybody, and those were two nurses caring directly for him. One of those two nurses became infected, flew all the way to Cleveland, I think was pretty careful about getting "close" to friends or family, but then flew back to Dallas, and apparently infected nobody in the process at all. The photojournalist who came back to the U.S. from W. Africa infected also apparently didn't infect anybody else at all, and is now well himself again. Now they're tracking down people this doctor in NYC came into contact with; I guess we don't know how that's going to turn out yet (it'll be interesting to see if his fiancé turns out to be OK, but so far even family members & "intimates" seem to NOT be getting infected). But assuming he hasn't infected anyone... That all suggests to me that the disease can't be all that "instantaneously infectious" after the fever comes on, but instead later - even if only a few days later - after symptoms have intensified.

'Course all this goes up in smoke if infected people start coming out of the woodwork. That's apparently NOT going to happen with Duncan's family or the group of caregivers in Dallas since they've successfully reached the end of their quarantine (or "monitoring", or whatever it was...). But I guess it still potentially could WRT people exposed by Amber Vinson or by this Dr. Craig Spencer character - it just seems less & less likely.

The core of the problem is Americans have a right to insist that they not even be exposed to Ebola. It is not a native disease of America. All exposures to Ebola and the two nurses who caught it from Mr. Duncan could have been prevented with correct and prudent Government policies. And those policies are - stop allowing residents of the Ebola Hot Spot countries from getting a visa and coming to America and institute a policy that returning Ebola Aid workers must go to quarantine. Had these policies been in effect Mr. Duncan would have never gone to America and now in N.Y. City people would not have been exposed to the good Doctor had he been made to go to quarantine.

It was prudent months ago when the well known news of the large size of the Ebola Epidemic in the West African Countries became known to most anyone reading the news,

We have had people in America be exposed to Ebola and catch it and we have hundreds of people who have been exposed to Dr. Spencer, one of the Nurses and others for absolutely no reason other than political agenda at the top. Protect open borders at all cost is the reason... No limits can be placed ... the American citizens have no say so about the risk of catching a serious disease when that risk could have been prevented months ago and was not and when even now in the face of what we know - it still will not be done.

[thailiketoo]

We have had people in America be exposed to Ebola and catch it and we have hundreds of people who have been exposed to Dr. Spencer, one of the Nurses and others for absolutely no reason other than political agenda at the top. Protect open borders at all cost is the reason... No limits can be placed ... the American citizens have no say so about the risk of catching a serious disease when that risk could have been prevented months ago and was not and when even now in the face of what we know - it still will not be done.

On CNN last night the news anchor was commenting that one of the advantages of living in a totalitarian dictatorship (China) was the ease at controlling Ebola entry into the country by screening and quarantine. Had the news guy been working for me I would have fired him but maybe he's got a point.

[attrayant]

Nate Silver (of 538 fame) on why a travel ban just wouldn't work.

There are no regularly scheduled direct flights to the U.S. from Liberia, Guinea or Sierra Leone and very few from other countries in West Africa. There are far more flights from West Africa to Western Europe instead. Duncans case was typical. Before arriving in the United States, he connected through Brussels.

A travel ban would probably cause panic and mass exodus from the affected countries. And since they can't come to the USA, they'd go to Europe, Asia, South America and likely cause outbreaks there. Then what do we do? Travel bans on ALL countries?

But for a ban to be even halfway effective, it would need to be much more sweeping than banning the handful of direct flights from West Africa to the United States. It seems unlikely that travel from Europe or the Middle East will be halted. But the next Ebola patient may be on a flight from London, not Liberia.

Seems that those advocating for a travel ban just haven't thought about the practicality, effectiveness or logistics. A travel ban would require a complex morass of new rules & regulations that would be full of loopholes, and most likely end up being ineffective. And Ebola travel bans are irrational, says head of Red Cross.

[attrayant]

Living in a totalitarian dictatorship stops Ebola the same way the guillotine stops dandruff.

[thailiketoo]

Nate Silver (of 538 fame) on why a travel ban just wouldn't work.

A travel ban would probably cause panic and mass exodus from the affected countries. And since they can't come to the USA, they'd go to Europe, Asia, South America and likely cause outbreaks there. Then what do we do? Travel bans on ALL countries?

But for a ban to be even halfway effective, it would need to be much more sweeping than banning the handful of direct flights from West Africa to the United States. It seems unlikely that travel from Europe or the Middle East will be halted. But the next Ebola patient may be on a flight from London, not Liberia.

Seems that those advocating for a travel ban just haven't thought about the practicality, effectiveness or logistics. A travel ban would require a complex morass of new rules & regulations that would be full of loopholes, and most likely end up being ineffective. And Ebola travel bans are irrational, says head of Red Cross.

Countries that have implemented Ebola-related travel restrictions:

• Gambia has banned the entry of flights from Guinea, Liberia, Nigeria and Sierra Leone.
• Gabon has banned the entry of flights and ships from countries affected by Ebola.
• Senegal has banned flights from Guinea, Liberia and Sierra Leone.
• Cameroon has banned flights to and from Nigeria.Chad has suspended all flights from Nigeria.
• Nigeria has suspended flights to the country operated by Gambian national carrier Gambia Bird.
• Côte d'Ivoire has now lifted the ban on passenger flights from Guinea, Liberia and Sierra Leone.

Details of airlines that have restricted flights to Ebola-affected countries:

• Air France suspended flights to Sierra Leone from 28 August.
• The Togo-based carrier Asky Airlines has suspended flights to and from Guinea, Liberia and Sierra Leone.
• Arik Air (Nigeria), Gambia Bird and Kenya Airways have suspended services to Liberia and Sierra Leone.
• British Airways has extended their suspension of flights to Liberia and Sierra Leone until 31 December.
• Emirates Airlines has suspended flights to Guinea.
• Korean Air suspended flights to and from Kenya from 20 August.
• Senegal Airlines has suspended flights to and from Conakry (Guinea) until further notice.

Other airlines have modified their routes but are still operating regular scheduled services. These include:

• Royal Air Maroc
• Brussels Airlines.

https://www.internationalsos.com/ebola/index.cfm?content_id=435&

[bkkcanuck8]

The core of the problem is Americans have a right to insist that they not even be exposed to Ebola. It is not a native disease of America.

A lot of the diseases here are not native to the Americas - they were brought over by Europeans....

[JDGRUEN]

We have had people in America be exposed to Ebola and catch it and we have hundreds of people who have been exposed to Dr. Spencer, one of the Nurses and others for absolutely no reason other than political agenda at the top. Protect open borders at all cost is the reason... No limits can be placed ... the American citizens have no say so about the risk of catching a serious disease when that risk could have been prevented months ago and was not and when even now in the face of what we know - it still will not be done.

On CNN last night the news anchor was commenting that one of the advantages of living in a totalitarian dictatorship (China) was the ease at controlling Ebola entry into the country by screening and quarantine. Had the news guy been working for me I would have fired him but maybe he's got a point.

Typical of CNN to slant the news to make it seem that countries which would protect themselves from importing a disease would be dictatorial. As we have learned from staying in Thailand (long before the current military rule) Thailand has rules for visiting that are quite rigid. And are enforced arbitrarily as the order of the day. It has been stated many times on the TV Immigration Forums that no one has the right to demand entry into Thailand. And that Thailand has the absolute right to deny entry to anyone. The same holds for all countries.

The Government of the U.S. has a primary obligation to protect the country and the citizens and should institute rational policies to do that. Allowing the entry of people into the U.S who have an elevated probability of carrying a deadly disease is not rational, but that is what American policy is on Ebola - not rational.

The face of the American Government's policy of initially allowing and continuing to allow entry of potentially Ebola infected people is irrational and confusing because the reason for the policy has noting to do with the Ebola disease.

[bkkcanuck8]

CNN did not fire him because they agree with him.... as long as the dictatorship has a leftist lean to it....

[JDGRUEN]

New York, New Jersey Set Up Mandatory Quarantine Requirement Amid Ebola Threat

Christie: New Policy Has Already Been Used At Newark Liberty International Airport October 24, 2014 10:20 PM

NEW YORK (CBSNewYork/AP) — In the wake of the first confirmed Ebola virus case in New York City, the states of New York and New Jersey have set up a new screening system that goes above and beyond the guidelines already set up by federal officials. The guidelines have already been used for a traveler returning from West Africa who developed a fever Friday night.


http://newyork.cbslocal.com/2014/10/24/new-york-new-jersey-set-up-mandatory-quarantine-requirement-amid-ebola-threat/

[thailiketoo]

New York, New Jersey Set Up Mandatory Quarantine Requirement Amid Ebola Threat

Christie: New Policy Has Already Been Used At Newark Liberty International Airport October 24, 2014 10:20 PM

NEW YORK (CBSNewYork/AP) — In the wake of the first confirmed Ebola virus case in New York City, the states of New York and New Jersey have set up a new screening system that goes above and beyond the guidelines already set up by federal officials. The guidelines have already been used for a traveler returning from West Africa who developed a fever Friday night.

http://newyork.cbslocal.com/2014/10/24/new-york-new-jersey-set-up-mandatory-quarantine-requirement-amid-ebola-threat/

“He was a doctor, and even he didn’t follow the guidelines,” Cuomo said.

With that in mind, the states have to lay down the law, the governors said.

“It’s too serious a situation to leave it to the honor system,” Cuomo said.

The CDC is reviewing its policy for health care workers returning from West Africa, but anyone flying into a Port Authority of New York and New Jersey airport will need to abide by the new procedures.

When the President won't act it is up to the States. Good thing someone has some sense.

[zydeco]

New York, New Jersey Set Up Mandatory Quarantine Requirement Amid Ebola Threat

Christie: New Policy Has Already Been Used At Newark Liberty International Airport October 24, 2014 10:20 PM

NEW YORK (CBSNewYork/AP) — In the wake of the first confirmed Ebola virus case in New York City, the states of New York and New Jersey have set up a new screening system that goes above and beyond the guidelines already set up by federal officials. The guidelines have already been used for a traveler returning from West Africa who developed a fever Friday night.

http://newyork.cbslocal.com/2014/10/24/new-york-new-jersey-set-up-mandatory-quarantine-requirement-amid-ebola-threat/

And this has caused CNN to go crazy. Anderson Cooper is smirking. Gupta thinks he is the only scientist in America. And the president of the World Bank has been on to tell us that a quarantine on travelers from West Africa would be bad for their self esteem. NY/NJ saw the mess this caused in Dallas and reacted properly. As is, the voluntary actions of this doctor to serve in West Africa will be negated by the cost and conditions he is putting on NYC. Better to keep the Ebola associated out of the US and provide the money that would be going to treatment of Ebola in the US to treatment of Ebola in West Africa.

[JDGRUEN]

Internet users are supposed to be more clever than the average, but that doesn't seem to mean much, judging from several posts.

One thing I notice is that medical personnel is getting infected with Ebola - I suspect the cause for this to be the virus itself, being probably more contagious in certain situations than the textbooks say.

In particular, I guess Ebola is transmitting itself by aerosol, or better said, by droplets, which can float for a short time in the air before depositing, for example when someone sneezes.

Medical personnel is probably not protecting itself adequately against aerosol vector.

There have been a number of posters who have been trying to point this out including myself... and that we are not saying it is 'airborne' ... but rather simply expelled droplets ... at close range.... the reason that a full body covering with plastic hood is the absolute minimum protection ... protection the two nurses did not have. Also I have read that the high number of infections of Ebola Aid Workers is likely do to overwork, hot - sweltering conditions, extreme number of patients, etc... and the Aid Workers make mistakes... evidently Dr. Spencer was among this group of overworked doctors who made mistakes. I can only imagine the difficulty.

World Health Organization - WHO

What we know about transmission of the Ebola virus among humans

...Theoretically, wet and bigger droplets from a heavily infected individual, who has respiratory symptoms caused by other conditions or who vomits violently, could transmit the virus – over a short distance – to another nearby person.

This could happen when virus-laden heavy droplets are directly propelled, by coughing or sneezing (which does not mean airborne transmission) onto the mucus membranes or skin with cuts or abrasions of another person...

http://www.who.int/mediacentre/news/ebola/06-october-2014/en/

[attrayant]

When the President won't act it is up to the States. Good thing someone has some sense.

A state travel ban will be as effective as a state gun ban. Travelers will simply arrive in a neighboring state and drive across the line. Like I said earlier - people just aren't thinking this through.

[thailiketoo]

When the President won't act it is up to the States. Good thing someone has some sense.

A state travel ban will be as effective as a state gun ban. Travelers will simply arrive in a neighboring state and drive across the line. Like I said earlier - people just aren't thinking this through.

I would imagine that occurs to the other State governors as well. Soon the only place without the protective measures will be Washington DC.

[Chicog]

When the President won't act it is up to the States. Good thing someone has some sense.

A state travel ban will be as effective as a state gun ban. Travelers will simply arrive in a neighboring state and drive across the line. Like I said earlier - people just aren't thinking this through.

And a nationwide ban will be as effective as a Cocaine ban.

Ooh, hang on.