Parents say their sons are innocent but beaten to confess

[Johnsen]

On what evidence murder??????

[Number 3]

On what evidence for murder????

I am not sure to be honest Johnsen. I doubt they have any. I speculate their use of the word CONSPIRACY to..... assists the legal process in some way at this point.

[jdinasia]

Asked and answered. Move on.

[Johnsen]

Thats the best you have see quote 514. Do you have any original thoughts of your own....

[Number 3]

On what evidence murder?????

As I say I am not sure they actually have anything other than talk tales of the coppers and forced confessions of the Burmese two. So given that - then effectively nothing

[Johnsen]

That's all anyone need ask you in the future re this case. ON WHAT EVIDENCE OF MURDER JDINASIA.

[JohnThailandJohn]

No the rape is confirmed with DNA. You keep repeating this. What circumstantial evidence do they have re murder.

Motive - kill male to be able to rape female. Kill female to have her not report rape and murder.

Opportunity - numerous evidence puts them around the crime scene at the time of the crimes

Means - A hoe was confirmed to be at the scene that night and accessible to the murderer(s) and appears to be confirmed it was at least one of the murder weapons. They attacked the male from behind with a blow to the head and the two suspects overpowered the female victim.

Evidence - beyond DNA, victims property found near suspects place, witness claim they were handed victim's property by suspect.

There of course will be more evidence submitted at trial including coroner report but the above would likely be enough to get a conviction in most 1st world countries ... baring the defense being able to cast reasonable doubt on any of the evidence during trial.

These two are headed to court and if they don't plead guilty then they will have a trial with evidence presented by both sides and evidence possibly being challenged. I am all for this happening, not sure why anybody would be against it.

It certainly would not be a plausible defense to suggest these two raped this women while the man watched or was restrained and then somebody later came along and killed them.

Edited October 25, 2014 by JohnThailandJohn

[Number 3]

That's all anyone need ask you in the future re this case. ON WHAT EVIDENCE OF MURDER JDINASIA.

Perhaps if a lawyer happens to be in the forum they could chime in with details of the 'conspiracy to 'element of this.

[jdinasia]

That's all anyone need ask you in the future re this case. ON WHAT EVIDENCE OF MURDER JDINASIA.

I

Again see post 514. The public doesn't have a right to discovery.

They do have the hoe. The confessions. The material witness . We do not know what else that they have.

[Johnsen]

That's right they have absolutely nothing. I tell you what we do have. A massive storm of young kids be tortured to confess to something they didn't do. How about we investigate that. How about we look for more potential killers. Why have the police closed the case when there is NO EVIDENCE these kids committed murder. None. Why are the Thai police so quick to close the book on a murder investigation when they have no proof. These are the questions that need answering immediately.

[Johnsen]

Material witness. Please explain.

[Johnsen]

A hoe with nothing on it to trace anything back to anyone.... What else.

Edited October 25, 2014 by Johnsen

[poweratradio]

Oh please speculators...! Give it a rest..! The script is still being written...!.wait for the movie I'm begging you all.!

[jdinasia]

Legally a conspiracy is an agreement to commit a crime.

[Number 3]

That's right they have absolutely nothing. I tell you what we do have. A massive storm of young kids be tortured to confess to something they didn't do. How about we investigate that. How about we look for more potential killers. Why have the police closed the case when there is NO EVIDENCE these kids committed murder. None. Why are the Thai police so quick to close the book on a murder investigation when they have no proof. These are the questions that need answering immediately.

Come on we know why and we know who.

Hopefully 'the trashman'comes back on to the forum soon with his information.

Now it's down to the coppers to take down all the blinkers so the truth can appear as truth and justice and no longer be dismissed as rumours.

[Johnsen]

Recanted confessions that you have already reminded us of... And

[JohnThailandJohn]

That's right they have absolutely nothing. I tell you what we do have. A massive storm of young kids be tortured to confess to something they didn't do. How about we investigate that. How about we look for more potential killers. Why have the police closed the case when there is NO EVIDENCE these kids committed murder. None. Why are the Thai police so quick to close the book on a murder investigation when they have no proof. These are the questions that need answering immediately.

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/771171-parents-say-their-sons-are-innocent-but-beaten-to-confess/page-22#entry8584435

[Number 3]

Recanted confessions that you have already reminded us of... And

And nothing ! The embarrassing thing for the RTP is that they have nothing.

Hopefully a lawyer can still advise on the conspiracy part of these two crimes...

[Johnsen]

And that's where your argument ends. Legally a conspiracy is an agreement to commit a crime.

You couldn't answer the most important question of them all. What evidence do the Thai authorities have to hold these kids for murder.

[JohnThailandJohn]

A hoe with nothing on it to trace anything back to anyone.... What else.

You might want to calm down a bit and just wait for the trial. As has been stated to you numerous times, this is where full evidence is presented and challenged ... not on Thaivisa or the press. What is known now is there has been found to be probable cause to hold these two for the crimes. No reason to get your panties in a bunch, this is just the way it works.

[Johnsen]

Look who has been drawn to the table. Old mate JTJ come to help out JDINASIA. Neither of them can answer the question.

[Number 3]

And that's where your argument ends. Legally a conspiracy is an agreement to commit a crime.

You couldn't answer the most important question of them all. What evidence do the Thai authorities have to hold these kids for murder.

Are you addressing your question to me ?

[JohnThailandJohn]

Recanted confessions that you have already reminded us of... And

And nothing ! The embarrassing thing for the RTP is that they have nothing.

Hopefully a lawyer can still advise on the conspiracy part of these two crimes...

Do you have a link showing they were charged with conspiracy? I have read numerous reports which state the charges are murder, rape and theft. Have not seen a conspiracy charge mentioned. Conspiracy is extremely difficult to prove anywhere and generally needs a confession or witness or tape showing the two people planning to commit a crime. Conspiracy or not, it is not like that would increase their sentence, this is already a capital case. Anyway, if you have a link, would appreciate it.

[Johnsen]

No mate I won't calm down. Why calm down because you say so. We have reached an interesting conclusion. THERE IS NO EVIDENCE TO HOLD THESE 2 kids for murder. Its a bit rich of you to say calm down when you are the one on here spending overtime replying to every man and his dog. How about you do us all a favour and calm down.

Everybody if you want to shut these 2 up just ask the simple question. WHAT EVIDENCE DO THEY HAVE TO HOLD THESE 2 KIDS FOR MURDER.

[Johnsen]

Where's the evidence to hold them for murder????

[DarloKnight]

As I said in another post the bodies of the victims were brought home on the 21st September before the 2 suspects were arrested or even accused so the UK will have taken their own samples and will be able to verify the results.

While this would be great if they can, I am not sure they can. I would think during evidence collection / autopsy they would have scraped any area where foreign DNA may have been found. I also believe her body would not have been able to be transported via a commercial airline without it being embalmed which makes it less likely too without getting into details of embalming.

While I hope that UK officials did retrieve DNA to put some of this to rest, it really wouldn't matter much to some as they will just say the Thais planted it before shipping the bodies, if it did confirm the match to the suspects in custody.

http://www.toughtimestransport.co.za/repatriation-of-mortal-remains.html

Must be embalmed.

This is for SA not UK

[jdinasia]

As I said in another post the bodies of the victims were brought home on the 21st September before the 2 suspects were arrested or even accused so the UK will have taken their own samples and will be able to verify the results.

While this would be great if they can, I am not sure they can. I would think during evidence collection / autopsy they would have scraped any area where foreign DNA may have been found. I also believe her body would not have been able to be transported via a commercial airline without it being embalmed which makes it less likely too without getting into details of embalming.

While I hope that UK officials did retrieve DNA to put some of this to rest, it really wouldn't matter much to some as they will just say the Thais planted it before shipping the bodies, if it did confirm the match to the suspects in custody.

http://www.toughtimestransport.co.za/repatriation-of-mortal-remains.html

Must be embalmed.

This is for SA not UK

http://www.theguardian.com/money/2007/nov/28/expat-finance-health

Scroll down to IATA

[JohnThailandJohn]

As I said in another post the bodies of the victims were brought home on the 21st September before the 2 suspects were arrested or even accused so the UK will have taken their own samples and will be able to verify the results.

While this would be great if they can, I am not sure they can. I would think during evidence collection / autopsy they would have scraped any area where foreign DNA may have been found. I also believe her body would not have been able to be transported via a commercial airline without it being embalmed which makes it less likely too without getting into details of embalming.

While I hope that UK officials did retrieve DNA to put some of this to rest, it really wouldn't matter much to some as they will just say the Thais planted it before shipping the bodies, if it did confirm the match to the suspects in custody.

http://www.toughtimestransport.co.za/repatriation-of-mortal-remains.html

Must be embalmed.

What is sad JD is we spend our time here trying to enlighten people with facts and pointing out when somebody is saying something untrue or stating something unfounded as fact. The result is they don't want to hear it. We get called names and accused of being part of a conspiracy to name just a few things but we don't call names or get all emotionally crazed to the point of wanting to hide from facts. Yet, we are the ones in the wrong or being disruptive in their mind despite neither of us saying these folks should be executed or be sentenced for the crimes or anything along the lines except saying they should stand trial given the evidence that has been released. Posters here say we don't want the truth but we and a few others seem to be the only ones willing to point out the facts be it about this case, the law or how things work here or with other involved countries.

[Johnsen]

Where is the evidence to hold them for murder????

[MJP]

As I said in another post the bodies of the victims were brought home on the 21st September before the 2 suspects were arrested or even accused so the UK will have taken their own samples and will be able to verify the results.

While this would be great if they can, I am not sure they can. I would think during evidence collection / autopsy they would have scraped any area where foreign DNA may have been found. I also believe her body would not have been able to be transported via a commercial airline without it being embalmed which makes it less likely too without getting into details of embalming.

While I hope that UK officials did retrieve DNA to put some of this to rest, it really wouldn't matter much to some as they will just say the Thais planted it before shipping the bodies, if it did confirm the match to the suspects in custody.

http://www.toughtimestransport.co.za/repatriation-of-mortal-remains.html

Must be embalmed.

What is sad JD is we spend our time here trying to enlighten people with facts and pointing out when somebody is saying something untrue or stating something unfounded as fact. The result is they don't want to hear it. We get called names and accused of being part of a conspiracy to name just a few things but we don't call names or get all emotionally crazed to the point of wanting to hide from facts. Yet, we are the ones in the wrong or being disruptive in their mind despite neither of us saying these folks should be executed or be sentenced for the crimes or anything along the lines except saying they should stand trial given the evidence that has been released. Posters here say we don't want the truth but we and a few others seem to be the only ones willing to point out the facts be it about this case, the law or how things work here or with other involved countries.

Honestly, I don't know why either of you bother.