In the context of Thailand, what is a digital nomad?

[Beetlejuice]

In the Thailand, context, people who flog fake goods, and gamble on line , distribute porn also claim to be digital nomads as well

And before the members of the ALBC get all up in arms, I have no issue with concept of a digital nomad provided what they are doing is legal in the country they are in

However I do take exception to those living in Thailand long term who are not really "nomads" claiming they should be afforded a special visa or considerations all because they carry a lap top under their arms, which even people who are legally employed in Thailand do as well

Exactly right.

As I mentioned in the previous thread that was deleted, all this is wide open to abuse.

And just like the previous thread, this is also beginning to go around in circles. I have no idea why there are those so intend on pushing this subject?

[rwdrwdrwd]

In the Thailand, context, people who flog fake goods, and gamble on line , distribute porn also claim to be digital nomads as well

And before the members of the ALBC get all up in arms, I have no issue with concept of a digital nomad provided what they are doing is legal in the country they are in

However I do take exception to those living in Thailand long term who are not really "nomads" claiming they should be afforded a special visa or considerations all because they carry a lap top under their arms, which even people who are legally employed in Thailand do as well

Exactly right.

As I mentioned in the previous thread that was deleted, all this is wide open to abuse.

And just like the previous thread, this is also beginning to go around in circles. I have no idea why there are those so intend on pushing this subject?

I get the concern around issues with people using internet businesses for unethical and illegal activity, and that the internet makes such practice far easier, but I do not agree whatsoever that this is something specific to people who work remotely via the internet. It's an issue worldwide, there are people back in their home nations in the US, the UK, Australia and everywhere else in the world using the web for unethical or illegal means. This issue is not something specific to people working remotely from Thailand, and nor is Thailand a particular attraction since anonymity can be obtained anywhere in the world if someone so desires (Tor, VPN). What seems to be the founder of Silk Road turned out to live quietly in San Francisco - it's not like constantly moving or living outside of your home nation adds any benefit in terms of hiding nefarious activity, if anything it draws attention to you.

References to foreigners in Thailand using the internet for illegal purposes to make money is vastly overstated on this forum when juxtaposed with the vast majority who are performing activity they can happily tell their gran all about, such as programming, designing, seo, blogging and marketing. I also think half the time it's just complete assumption - I cannot believe for a moment there is a great deal of cash to be made these days flogging fake goods on eBay (account closed and funds frozen within the first couple of transactions), nor setting up a porn site (that market is taken by a number of very large aggregate sites that stream for free). These activities might have made decent money 10 - 15 years ago but they are very unlikely to these days.

I don't think people who run internet businesses should qualify for some kind of special visa either, that would certainly be open to abuse and entirely unmanageable, but I think the general vilification and distrust of people that work remotely, and the suggestion that they are often flogging fake stuff on ebay or running porn sites is rather bizarre.

Edited October 25, 2014 by rwdrwdrwd

[NancyL]

I know people who make their living from the internet in Thailand -- building websites, running on-line stores. All successful. None of them are "digital nomads". They all have proper visas, offices (maybe out of their homes), Thai employees, and ties into the local community. They don't hang around internet cafes or get themselves arrested at "shared workspaces". In fact, I recently had to explain the term "digital nomad" to one of these folks recently. I guess he's just too busy earning money legitimately from the internet to keep up with the latest jargon.

[rwdrwdrwd]

I know people who make their living from the internet in Thailand -- building websites, running on-line stores. All successful. None of them are "digital nomads". They all have proper visas, offices (maybe out of their homes), Thai employees, and ties into the local community. They don't hang around internet cafes or get themselves arrested at "shared workspaces". In fact, I recently had to explain the term "digital nomad" to one of these folks recently. I guess he's just too busy earning money legitimately from the internet to keep up with the latest jargon.

Arrested and released entirely without charge once it was ascertained they were not working FOR the co-working space - let's not forget how that actually panned out. It appears that in practice those that were arrested were considered to be legitimate and not in breach of their ED and T Visas.

Perhaps, depending on their business model, the people you know don't need to operate Thai businesses or have Thai employees in order to be acting legitimately from the perspective of Thai authorities, so long at their online stores do not service Thai clients and they do not receive payment in Thailand. Feels to me that this is a bit up in the air at the moment.

I also know people operating businesses in the manner you describe, the common denominator among the ones I know is that they are servicing Thai clients and receiving payment in Thailand, often providing Web Design and Dev services exclusively to Thai customers in their local area and selling goods online to the Thai market. Some of them have offshore businesses as well, for servicing foreign clients.

Edited October 25, 2014 by rwdrwdrwd

[sustento]

Don't be jelly

[gerry123]

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  Digital nomad - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
  

  
  

  en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Digital_nomad
  

  
  

  
  

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  Digital nomads are individuals who leverage telecommunications technologies to perform their work duties, and more generally conduct their lifestyle in a nomadicmanner.

  
  
  
  
  

[IMA_FARANG]

I'm the one whois I trying to push the idea of the "Self Employed Online Worker" visa in Thailand.

So far with very little success.

All you so-called "digital nomads" should be pushing for this visa, but frankly, a lot of you are just using your "work" in Thailand as just an excuse to booze it up and avoid paying taxes anywhere (including your home country).

In order for there ever to be a real "Digital Workers On-line Visa" in Thailand, you need to make such a thing profitable for the Thai government.

That means you have got to cut them in on a share of the tax revenue from the legitimate income you earn on-line.

Yes, I know you don't like that idea.

But if you ever get such a visa is to come about you need it to be desirable for the Thai government to enact it.

That, my friend, is called a "Quid Pro Quo" ..... or more commonly ...... everybody gets their due share, you wash my hands and I wash yours.

It would also be beneficial to you who work here in Thailand to be legal, and also the income tax rates are usually lower in Thailand than in other developed countries around the work.

My proposal therefore is that such a visa would require taxes to be paid on the PORTION of your on-line income that you bring into Thailand for living expenses here in Thailand.

You would declare that, and pay Thai taxes on that as you would income earned in Thailand.

For that , you would get the right to a Digital Worker On-line Worker visa that would allow you to live in Thailand and could be renewed annually.

Of course that annual renewal would require annual tax filing in Thailand.

Think about it.

Edited October 25, 2014 by IMA_FARANG

[farang000999]

Unless you are receiving payment in Thai baht (very unlikely) you will be showing money back home... some countries do not tax income earned abroad.

Yes, the Thai tax man is missing out - of course - 99% of Thais given the chance are under paying or not paying their taxes... nothing to see here.

I mean, it is hilarious that the whole argument against digital nomads is their lack of consideration for Thai tax law... which Thais themselves don't give a crap about.

[jspill]

Passive income - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Passive_income

Included on the list is 'earnings from internet advertisements on websites', e.g. a digital nomad's blog or niche affiliate site.

Passive income is 'trade or business activities in which you do not materially participate'.

It's the same, by that list, as interest from a bank account.

If what digital nomads do is illegal, then having income from interest on a bank account is 'working' and also illegal. So is having a pension.

These threads keep popping up because posters like to label digital nomads as illegals, that's offensive and baseless. Visa declarations prohibiting employment, are clearly in the spirit of not taking jobs from Thais. Digital nomads do not.

[pigeonjake]

good luck to all that do it legaly,,

This is where otherwise interesting threads get derailed, certain posters start saying it's illegal to work online because tourist visa declarations say 'employment prohibited', then it turns into bickering and the thread gets deleted. Hopefully this one stays civil.

To me common sense would dictate that those visa declarations effectively mean 'don't take jobs from Thais' by performing physically present jobs, e.g. real estate brokerage, whatever, without a permit.

Say for example you run an amazon affiliate site, it provides monthly passive income. You then decide to holiday in Thailand on a tourist visa. You enjoy it and stay for years - there is no official limit on tourist visas. Are you breaking the law if you don't take the website offline before coming? I don't think so.

There's no functional difference between that passive income, and tinkering around with a bit of programming for offshore customers on a TR / Ed visa.

In fact if you apply for several TR / Ed visas back to back, sometimes consulates want to check that you aren't working illegally. What is their criteria for this? Asking you to provide proof of income from outside Thailand. Offshore sourced funds (that a digital nomad would have) do not constitute working in Thailand.

Source - http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/715011-red-stamp-in-vientiane-advice-needed/

i never even joined in on your other bickering thread i couldnt be botherd,!!!!

so dont try and lay the blame at my door,,

if you copied all the post instead of just that part you would of sean that, and let others see that,

IF you are working as you all say you are,, then you are doing it illegally,

you openly admit in an open forum that you are working without a work permit, and expect others not to chalange you on this,?

like i said in my post im far far from jealous of you digital whatever you call yourselfs,

just try asnd say within the law,

and can i ask you one question,,?

why just why thailand, when many of you say we travel the world, are you stuck in thailand for years?

[craigt3365]

Several off topic and rude posts have been removed from view. Please abide by forum rules:

7) You will respect fellow members and post in a civil manner. No personal attacks, hateful or insulting towards other members, (flaming) Stalking of members on either the forum or via PM will not be allowed.

[mrtoad]

Someone who has falsified an immigration document to obtain an ED visa multiple times to stay long term in Thailand and work is not nomadic, they are an illegal immigrant.

A nomad would be someone moving country to country short term as a tourist, earning some money online as they go along. I think we have established that the authorities aren't interested in that type of nomad. However ones as aforementioned, that are also working are clearly in breach of the regulations., these would be a Digital Pikey or Digicoy. They also seem to think that they should have privileges that other people who are here legally don't have.

[mrtoad]

Passive income - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Passive_income

Included on the list is 'earnings from internet advertisements on websites', e.g. a digital nomad's blog or niche affiliate site.

Passive income is 'trade or business activities in which you do not materially participate'.

It's the same, by that list, as interest from a bank account.

If what digital nomads do is illegal, then having income from interest on a bank account is 'working' and also illegal. So is having a pension.

These threads keep popping up because posters like to label digital nomads as illegals, that's offensive and baseless. Visa declarations prohibiting employment, are clearly in the spirit of not taking jobs from Thais. Digital nomads do not.

What are the conditions of an ED visa? Would not attending school be in the spirit of the rules?

[Soutpeel]

good luck to all that do it legaly,,

This is where otherwise interesting threads get derailed, certain posters start saying it's illegal to work online because tourist visa declarations say 'employment prohibited', then it turns into bickering and the thread gets deleted. Hopefully this one stays civil.

To me common sense would dictate that those visa declarations effectively mean 'don't take jobs from Thais' by performing physically present jobs, e.g. real estate brokerage, whatever, without a permit.

Say for example you run an amazon affiliate site, it provides monthly passive income. You then decide to holiday in Thailand on a tourist visa. You enjoy it and stay for years - there is no official limit on tourist visas. Are you breaking the law if you don't take the website offline before coming? I don't think so.

There's no functional difference between that passive income, and tinkering around with a bit of programming for offshore customers on a TR / Ed visa.

In fact if you apply for several TR / Ed visas back to back, sometimes consulates want to check that you aren't working illegally. What is their criteria for this? Asking you to provide proof of income from outside Thailand. Offshore sourced funds (that a digital nomad would have) do not constitute working in Thailand.

Source - http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/715011-red-stamp-in-vientiane-advice-needed/

i never even joined in on your other bickering thread i couldnt be botherd,!!!!

so dont try and lay the blame at my door,,

if you copied all the post instead of just that part you would of sean that, and let others see that,

IF you are working as you all say you are,, then you are doing it illegally,

you openly admit in an open forum that you are working without a work permit, and expect others not to chalange you on this,?

like i said in my post im far far from jealous of you digital whatever you call yourselfs,

just try asnd say within the law,

and can i ask you one question,,?

why just why thailand, when many of you say we travel the world, are you stuck in thailand for years?

Very well said Jake, especially your last point on reflection in my own job I lead more of a digital nomadic existence than most claiming to be digital nomads on here, from the perspective I travel a lot, work from remote locations and use a lap top to do my job, but then again I have a WP to do this

[Soutpeel]

Passive income - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Passive_income

Included on the list is 'earnings from internet advertisements on websites', e.g. a digital nomad's blog or niche affiliate site.

Passive income is 'trade or business activities in which you do not materially participate'.

It's the same, by that list, as interest from a bank account.

If what digital nomads do is illegal, then having income from interest on a bank account is 'working' and also illegal. So is having a pension.

These threads keep popping up because posters like to label digital nomads as illegals, that's offensive and baseless. Visa declarations prohibiting employment, are clearly in the spirit of not taking jobs from Thais. Digital nomads do not.

What are the conditions of an ED visa? Would not attending school be in the spirit of the rules?

The same poster admitted participating in a promotional movie in Thailand for pay and other considerations , so away from digital nomad claims of this poster, the poster physically worked in Thailand presumably on a Ed visa without a WP, and whether this was working illegally is not even up for debate, the poster worked illegally, therefore the poster lacks any credibility

[phpsql]

I know people who make their living from the internet in Thailand -- building websites, running on-line stores. All successful. None of them are "digital nomads". They all have proper visas, offices (maybe out of their homes), Thai employees, and ties into the local community. They don't hang around internet cafes or get themselves arrested at "shared workspaces". In fact, I recently had to explain the term "digital nomad" to one of these folks recently. I guess he's just too busy earning money legitimately from the internet to keep up with the latest jargon.

This is a very good post.

I too only encountered the term digital nomad quite recently. A little googling, however, reveals that the term is widely understood in the tech community, with Chiang Mai being regarded as a kind of Mecca.

http://tech.co/top-10-cities-for-digital-nomads-2014-07

On the above list, Chiang Mai is ranked number one and Bangkok comes in at number four.

[mrtoad]

good luck to all that do it legaly,,

This is where otherwise interesting threads get derailed, certain posters start saying it's illegal to work online because tourist visa declarations say 'employment prohibited', then it turns into bickering and the thread gets deleted. Hopefully this one stays civil.

To me common sense would dictate that those visa declarations effectively mean 'don't take jobs from Thais' by performing physically present jobs, e.g. real estate brokerage, whatever, without a permit.

Say for example you run an amazon affiliate site, it provides monthly passive income. You then decide to holiday in Thailand on a tourist visa. You enjoy it and stay for years - there is no official limit on tourist visas. Are you breaking the law if you don't take the website offline before coming? I don't think so.

There's no functional difference between that passive income, and tinkering around with a bit of programming for offshore customers on a TR / Ed visa.

In fact if you apply for several TR / Ed visas back to back, sometimes consulates want to check that you aren't working illegally. What is their criteria for this? Asking you to provide proof of income from outside Thailand. Offshore sourced funds (that a digital nomad would have) do not constitute working in Thailand.

Source - http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/715011-red-stamp-in-vientiane-advice-needed/

i never even joined in on your other bickering thread i couldnt be botherd,!!!!

so dont try and lay the blame at my door,,

if you copied all the post instead of just that part you would of sean that, and let others see that,

IF you are working as you all say you are,, then you are doing it illegally,

you openly admit in an open forum that you are working without a work permit, and expect others not to chalange you on this,?

like i said in my post im far far from jealous of you digital whatever you call yourselfs,

just try asnd say within the law,

and can i ask you one question,,?

why just why thailand, when many of you say we travel the world, are you stuck in thailand for years?

Very well said Jake, especially your last point on reflection in my own job I lead more of a digital nomadic existence than most claiming to be digital nomads on here, from the perspective I travel a lot, work from remote locations and use a lap top to do my job, but then again I have a WP to do this

That's actually a good point, because I also travel a fair amount with work, and often in different locations. I have to do a lot of online communication work etc, so I guess I am more nomadic than some of the so called "nomads", oh and yes have WP.

[Soutpeel]

good luck to all that do it legaly,,

This is where otherwise interesting threads get derailed, certain posters start saying it's illegal to work online because tourist visa declarations say 'employment prohibited', then it turns into bickering and the thread gets deleted. Hopefully this one stays civil.

To me common sense would dictate that those visa declarations effectively mean 'don't take jobs from Thais' by performing physically present jobs, e.g. real estate brokerage, whatever, without a permit.

Say for example you run an amazon affiliate site, it provides monthly passive income. You then decide to holiday in Thailand on a tourist visa. You enjoy it and stay for years - there is no official limit on tourist visas. Are you breaking the law if you don't take the website offline before coming? I don't think so.

There's no functional difference between that passive income, and tinkering around with a bit of programming for offshore customers on a TR / Ed visa.

In fact if you apply for several TR / Ed visas back to back, sometimes consulates want to check that you aren't working illegally. What is their criteria for this? Asking you to provide proof of income from outside Thailand. Offshore sourced funds (that a digital nomad would have) do not constitute working in Thailand.

Source - http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/715011-red-stamp-in-vientiane-advice-needed/

i never even joined in on your other bickering thread i couldnt be botherd,!!!!

so dont try and lay the blame at my door,,

if you copied all the post instead of just that part you would of sean that, and let others see that,

IF you are working as you all say you are,, then you are doing it illegally,

you openly admit in an open forum that you are working without a work permit, and expect others not to chalange you on this,?

like i said in my post im far far from jealous of you digital whatever you call yourselfs,

just try asnd say within the law,

and can i ask you one question,,?

why just why thailand, when many of you say we travel the world, are you stuck in thailand for years?

Very well said Jake, especially your last point on reflection in my own job I lead more of a digital nomadic existence than most claiming to be digital nomads on here, from the perspective I travel a lot, work from remote locations and use a lap top to do my job, but then again I have a WP to do this

That's actually a good point, because I also travel a fair amount with work, and often in different locations. I have to do a lot of online communication work etc, so I guess I am more nomadic than some of the so called "nomads", oh and yes have WP.

I guess we are digital pikey's as well then Mr Toad ?

[phpsql]

Someone who has falsified an immigration document to obtain an ED visa multiple times to stay long term in Thailand and work is not nomadic, they are an illegal immigrant.

A nomad would be someone moving country to country short term as a tourist, earning some money online as they go along. I think we have established that the authorities aren't interested in that type of nomad. However ones as aforementioned, that are also working are clearly in breach of the regulations., these would be a Digital Pikey or Digicoy. They also seem to think that they should have privileges that other people who are here legally don't have.

You and one other member of this forum have a rather obvious grudge against JSPILL.

Would you kindly take this personal matter elsewhere and stop trying to derail this thread.

Thank you.

[mrtoad]

Who is jspill?

[theguyfromanotherforum]

If digital nomads are paying taxes in their own country then why should they be paying taxes in Thailand and have a work permit?

I tried to ask this question many, many times and none of the digital nomad bashers would answer.

Thailand has tax treaties with many counties around the world and most of those countries have taxes much higher than Thailand.

Tax treaties were set up for this very reason.

Will a digital nomad basher answer this?

[Soutpeel]

Someone who has falsified an immigration document to obtain an ED visa multiple times to stay long term in Thailand and work is not nomadic, they are an illegal immigrant.

A nomad would be someone moving country to country short term as a tourist, earning some money online as they go along. I think we have established that the authorities aren't interested in that type of nomad. However ones as aforementioned, that are also working are clearly in breach of the regulations., these would be a Digital Pikey or Digicoy. They also seem to think that they should have privileges that other people who are here legally don't have.

You and one other member of this forum have a rather obvious grudge against JSPILL.

Would you kindly take this personal matter elsewhere and stop trying to derail this thread.

Thank you.

Who is JSPILL? And who made you a mod ?,

and lest not forget the personnel comments you and other poster where making about certain members on this thread less than 12 hours ago

Seems there is a new member in the ALBC

[Soutpeel]

If digital nomads are paying taxes in their own country then why should they be paying taxes in Thailand and have a work permit?

I tried to ask this question many, many times and none of the digital nomad bashers would answer.

Thailand has tax treaties with many counties around the world and most of those countries have taxes much higher than Thailand.

Tax treaties were set up for this very reason.

Will a digital nomad basher answer this?

In terms of the Thai context with respect to work permits if or where someone is paying tax in another country is irrelevant, this doesn't form part of the definition of work in Thailand, therefore to answer your question, even if they are paying taxes in another country, if they are working in Thailand they require a WP from there on in reciprocal tax agreements may or may not come into play

One suspects you will find large numbers DM's plying their pikery business and not paying income tax anywhere

Edited October 26, 2014 by Soutpeel

[mrtoad]

Someone who has falsified an immigration document to obtain an ED visa multiple times to stay long term in Thailand and work is not nomadic, they are an illegal immigrant.

A nomad would be someone moving country to country short term as a tourist, earning some money online as they go along. I think we have established that the authorities aren't interested in that type of nomad. However ones as aforementioned, that are also working are clearly in breach of the regulations., these would be a Digital Pikey or Digicoy. They also seem to think that they should have privileges that other people who are here legally don't have.

You and one other member of this forum have a rather obvious grudge against JSPILL.

Would you kindly take this personal matter elsewhere and stop trying to derail this thread.

Thank you.

New member, same as his old member.

Didn't realise you was a mod.

[pigeonjake]

Who is jspill?

he,s the gay one who likes to play on the computer

[Soutpeel]

Someone who has falsified an immigration document to obtain an ED visa multiple times to stay long term in Thailand and work is not nomadic, they are an illegal immigrant.

A nomad would be someone moving country to country short term as a tourist, earning some money online as they go along. I think we have established that the authorities aren't interested in that type of nomad. However ones as aforementioned, that are also working are clearly in breach of the regulations., these would be a Digital Pikey or Digicoy. They also seem to think that they should have privileges that other people who are here legally don't have.

You and one other member of this forum have a rather obvious grudge against JSPILL.

Would you kindly take this personal matter elsewhere and stop trying to derail this thread.

Thank you.

New member, same as his old member.

Didn't realise you was a mod.

I was wondering that one as well

1 banned member of the ALBC reincarnated

2 existing member of the ALBC posting under 2 member names

Lest not forget these digital pikey chappies claim to be whiz kids with computers so setting up 2 accounts for them to usr without detection would be very easy for them, so in effect we could have 1 single poster commenting on his own posts.

[pigeonjake]

you mean like digital friends,,,lol

[Soutpeel]

Who is jspill?

he,s the gay one who likes to play on the computer

I thought the gay one was Costa's ?

[mrtoad]

Who is jspill?

he,s the gay one who likes to play on the computer

I thought the gay one was Costa's ?

No Costas is the one that likes badger isn't he?

[Soutpeel]

Who is jspill?

he,s the gay one who likes to play on the computer

I thought the gay one was Costa's ?

No Costas is the one that likes badger isn't he?

Sorry your right - Costa's = badger's

JSPILL - lead actor in a gay tourism promotional video, shot in Thailand, made false declarations on his visa, and gambles on line

Got it