British authorities at Koh Tao crime scene

[DarloKnight]

Thank you mods feel sick to my stomach this has really upset me.

[bertty]

An extremely inflammatory post has been removed along with replies. I recommend that poster seriously considers if they want to remain a forum member. This is a final warning.

Sorry. if you are saying such things you really should let people know who you are talking about.

[MJP]

An extremely inflammatory post has been removed along with replies. I recommend that poster seriously considers if they want to remain a forum member. This is a final warning.

Sorry. if you are saying such things you really should let people know who you are talking about.

I have sent you a PM.

[Fatty123]

Agree about toxicology reports proving important. In such a sensitive case it would be understandable not to release a toxicology report at this stage. That will be done at trial, whether or not substance(s) were found in Hannah's system (especially Hannah's).

It would depend on what drug(s), if any were found. If it was ecstacy and or marajuana, we can hazard a guess that these were taken voluntarily. Friends of Hannah may be able to confirm past usage and/or if she took something voluntarily that evening.

However, a drug such as Rohypnol, Valium or Temazepam would indicate deliberate foul play. Police (in a professional investigation) would've checked the suspects living quarters/clothing for signs of such drugs. I would've include Mon/Nomsod and Co in this, as they were early suspects in the case. This should've happened earlier (at least a warrant requested to search property etc).

Did this ever happen? I doubt it to be fair, but perhaps the police do have info we're not privy to regarding toxicology reports/searches. Although they have been mouthing off at every opportunity (until the UK cops arrived) about having the right suspects etc.

If the cops reveal that the Burmese suspects' DNA is inside Hannah and that they found date rape drugs on their person/in their living quarters which matched anything found in Hannah's system, we may have to accept their guilt, or at least part in the murders.

Personally, I think we'll find that the Uk cops will reveal evidence they have at some point which could change everything. This may be revealed to the Thai authorities, in order for them to claim the 'glory' and save face. As a former betting man, I think that's the most likely outcome here. Those videos I've seen look too much like Nomsod. The runing man one and the shaking hands one. I would like the view of a CCTV expert to say whether or not that 'Uni' video is fake. It doesn't look right to me either.

That's not me being a conspiracy nut, just saying what I see.

[Fatty123]

Agree about toxicology reports proving important. In such a sensitive case it would be understandable not to release a toxicology report at this stage. That will be done at trial, whether or not substance(s) were found in Hannah's system (especially Hannah's).

It would depend on what drug(s), if any were found. If it was ecstacy and or marajuana, we can hazard a guess that these were taken voluntarily. Friends of Hannah may be able to confirm past usage and/or if she took something voluntarily that evening.

However, a drug such as Rohypnol, Valium or Temazepam would indicate deliberate foul play. Police (in a professional investigation) would've checked the suspects living quarters/clothing for signs of such drugs. I would've include Mon/Nomsod and Co in this, as they were early suspects in the case. This should've happened earlier (at least a warrant requested to search property etc).

Did this ever happen? I doubt it to be fair, but perhaps the police do have info we're not privy to regarding toxicology reports/searches. Although they have been mouthing off at every opportunity (until the UK cops arrived) about having the right suspects etc.

If the cops reveal that the Burmese suspects' DNA is inside Hannah and that they found date rape drugs on their person/in their living quarters which matched anything found in Hannah's system, we may have to accept their guilt, or at least part in the murders.

Personally, I think we'll find that the Uk cops will reveal evidence they have at some point which could change everything. This may be revealed to the Thai authorities, in order for them to claim the 'glory' and save face. As a former betting man, I think that's the most likely outcome here. Those videos I've seen look too much like Nomsod. The runing man one and the shaking hands one. I would like the view of a CCTV expert to say whether or not that 'Uni' video is fake. It doesn't look right to me either.

That's not me being a conspiracy nut, just saying what I see.

I do wish people would stop saying Burmese DNA was found inside of Hannah. It wasn't.

Key word being 'if'. Even 'on' Hannah's body and it can't be ignored. We don'tknow until it comes to trial (if we're told the truth of course) I believe they are probably innocent too, but I can't say 100% that they weren't invloved.

I've been burned before on a murder case. West Memphis Three case. Hollywood declares them innocent (after a guilty verdict). Four HBO documentary movies and a Hollywood movie later, and I thought they were innocent too. Celebs jumped on the bandwagon, too. People like Johnny Depp, for instance. Next up, a huge legal fund for the three and the authorities can no longer afford to keep trying the case after bing taken on by some of the world's best lawyers. They release them on an Alford plea, pretty much on time served (they are still guilty but free).

Then, the local cops got p..ssed off with being called inept. corrupt etc and posted the case files and videos they had online (relating to this case only of course). The upshot is that they look guilty and the original verdict looked correct. The cause celeb gathered pace and rationality went out of the window. These kids were innocent no matter what evidence you showed them (including failed polygraphs, blood evidence, severasl confessions revealing too much info of the crime scene, eye witness reports, history of serious mental illness/killing animals/possiblemurder weapon found behind the home of one of the accused in a lake (thoroughly cleaned etc).

Like I said, my hunch is that the Burmese guys are innocent, but I can't be sure of it. Not yet. But always be wary of a cause celbre gathering too much pace and ignoring the possibilty of guilt.

[Neeranam]

Remember the condom found at the crime scene with the mixed semen inside it, and nothing on the outside.

It's just my guess, but it probably was used to plant the semen inside the Hanna's body.

Bingo...

Pretty hard to get the semen from the accused if they were being tortured.

[Tatsujin]

Predictable non credible story.... I doubt the Brit police would comment on the job done by the RTP. A non sensical report really.

Regardless of what evidence is presented in any courts, or the British police report, many have already decided the "truth" based on a fb page, TV and their own readiness to believe what the want to believe.

Now that's nonsensical for sure.

Many of us have simply seen far too many lies and untruths coming from the RTP over the years to take anything they say on "faith".

At this point in time, there are other suspects that were cleared that shouldn't have been and far too many unanswered questions and changed stories that make us question just how they got from A to B . . . and what real, untainted, unquestionable evidence they have to back it up.

To tell people that all is perfect with the investigation at this stage of the game is ludicrous. It's been very badly handled from day one and that is why people question the guilt of the current duo.

The Thai's ability to put words in other people's mouths and state it as fact is legendary . . . and I question whether that is what is happening here in this case.

There is, as many know from experience, a big issue with telling lies in Thailand. It is not regarded in the same way as other cultures regard it. Even government ministers lie and when caught say it's acceptable and even ethical. A lie will be told to save face, avoid conflict and avoid responsibility and accountability, from top to bottom and back again.

The RTP are no different, often just making it up as they go along. Therefore it's hard to put any substance to any of their claims.

But, you suggest other suspects were cleared that shouldn't have been, that these 2 are innocent. So you've made your mind up - based on what. Reports (usually poorly translated and badly written) based on comments from the RTP, together with conjecture and speculation on social media?

It has certainly been badly handled and far far from a perfect investigation. But, that unfortunately seems the case in many investigations here.

No, I haven't made up my mind about anything, and I am neutral about whether I personally think that the current suspects are innocent/guilty. I just think it's a little too "convenient" as it stands right now.

The RTP remain convinced that they have the correct three people (minus 1), and that they have the evidence to prove so. When we see/hear that evidence, we'll find out for sure.

[tingtongtourist]

I have this suspicion that the DNA matches are less than conclusive. And that's being charitable.

If there is a DNA match at all, why do you think it would not be conclusive?

I assume there are 2 and they are conclusive.

So why no prosecution?

In any other country, conclusive DNA evidence is all that is required.

Wrong. The DNA results in and of themselves prove sex not rape or murder.

Edit to answer your edit. You need to work on those critical thinking skills and look into DNA evidence limitations particularly regarding legal issues.

Hahahahaha.

You are now totally floundering.

DNA in this case does not prove rape or murder?

Can others in this thread comment on this just to make sure I am right to be laughing my head off now/

i dont confess to be an expert but one point:

Was the DNA from thai police source ever claim to be semen based?

DNA can come from any number of source no?

Considering the misqoutes and half truths already reported i would not be suprise if the DNA evidence taken was not semen at all,l but the police hoping that any DNA evidence like a hair stuck on dry blood for example would be just an additive to what they thought was open and shut case because of the confession.

[Tatsujin]

I have to say, I don't normally continue reading much past the first 3 or 4 pages in a thread, and here we are at 24 pages and counting.

The one striking thing I notice in this thread is the continual, blind faith support given to the RTP by a very small number of posters here and I'm VERY curious to know the real reasons behind this support.

What are you getting out of it? Propping up the failing tourist economy on Koh Tao and hence your own businesses?

[hugh2121]

and stopped at a place near the clock tower where police claimed they had found Mr Miller's mobile phone. ?????

I'm not familiar with the area but at first it was Hannah's phone that was found at the Burmese boys' home. When that was disproved it became Mr Miller's phone found at the boys' home. Now Mr Miller's phone is said to have been found near a clock tower. So whose phone was found at the Burmese boys' home? Anybody's?

[JLCrab]

I have to say, I don't normally continue reading much past the first 3 or 4 pages in a thread, and here we are at 24 pages and counting.

The one striking thing I notice in this thread is the continual, blind faith support given to the RTP by a very small number of posters here and I'm VERY curious to know the real reasons behind this support.

What are you getting out of it? Propping up the failing tourist economy on Koh Tao and hence your own businesses?

I'm not convinced whether either those in custody or those that 'everyone knows who did it' are guilty or not. The whole phenomenon of petitions and/or social media as in international trade negotiations or elsewhere is fascinating whether for the better or not.

[StealthEnergiser]

and stopped at a place near the clock tower where police claimed they had found Mr Miller's mobile phone. ?????

I'm not familiar with the area but at first it was Hannah's phone that was found at the Burmese boys' home. When that was disproved it became Mr Miller's phone found at the boys' home. Now Mr Miller's phone is said to have been found near a clock tower. So whose phone was found at the Burmese boys' home? Anybody's?

There was Hannahs phone also Mr Millers phone that was damaged phone found in the bushes and Mr Millers phone which was found near the clock tower undamaged.

The phones are another bungle up I was actually thinking that the damaged phone that was thrown in the bushes may have been damaged so bad so the real owner could not be traced.

the 3 phones need to be really carefully inspected it may be a certain person who is accused of leaving the island.

just a thought

[jdinasia]

I have this suspicion that the DNA matches are less than conclusive. And that's being charitable.

If there is a DNA match at all, why do you think it would not be conclusive?

I assume there are 2 and they are conclusive.

So why no prosecution?

In any other country, conclusive DNA evidence is all that is required.

Wrong. The DNA results in and of themselves prove sex not rape or murder.

Edit to answer your edit. You need to work on those critical thinking skills and look into DNA evidence limitations particularly regarding legal issues.

Hahahahaha.

You are now totally floundering.

DNA in this case does not prove rape or murder?

Can others in this thread comment on this just to make sure I am right to be laughing my head off now/

i dont confess to be an expert but one point:

Was the DNA from thai police source ever claim to be semen based?

DNA can come from any number of source no?

Considering the misqoutes and half truths already reported i would not be suprise if the DNA evidence taken was not semen at all,l but the police hoping that any DNA evidence like a hair stuck on dry blood for example would be just an additive to what they thought was open and shut case because of the confession.

Yes the police said the DNA match was via semen match

[boomerangutang]

and stopped at a place near the clock tower where police claimed they had found Mr Miller's mobile phone. ?????

I'm not familiar with the area but at first it was Hannah's phone that was found at the Burmese boys' home. When that was disproved it became Mr Miller's phone found at the boys' home. Now Mr Miller's phone is said to have been found near a clock tower. So whose phone was found at the Burmese boys' home? Anybody's?

After following this case closely since it started, I have to say: I don't think the phone or the condom are important for clues to the killers/rapists. Perhaps the report (by Sean) that he didn't have a (his?) phone the next morning has some significance. The condom could have been on the beach days prior to the crime - considering it's a party beach. The only significance of the phone found behind the scapegoat's shack is whether it was planted by police (probably was) - and further cements the frame-up by officialdom.

In contrast, there are other items which are important to solving the crime, but too many to repeat/list here.

[sweatalot]

Burmese are 100% innocent if this is true

According to CSILA, Hannah was shot in the head before she was hit by the hoe. He claims he already knew this but didn't want to talk about it because the graphic nature of the image. Apparently a forensic experts told CSILA that Hannah's head looked like was suffered from a bullet wound and this is why the killer(s) used the hoe as a cover up.

I don't know it this is true, this even adds more fuel to the fire the Burmese are totally innocent because I really don't think these Burmese boys carried around a gun did they? I may add I saw the unedited picture, which I do not recommend anybody to look at, but it does makes sense to me.

Easy sorted. The cops will now have another rumble thru the bushes where they found the phone, and will find a gun in a plastic bag.

Weirdly, there was a gun and poss hand grenade in suspects room during vid clip of police search, same time they showed the phone `found`. Sorry, don`t have link (1`m in icu mbike) but I saw it a couple of weeks back posted by Dogmatrix I think.

Yes I saw the the gun in the video clip it was actually in a case, but it still does not mean she was shot......

It also does not mean it belonged to the Burmese. Thai police is well known for planting

[StealthEnergiser]

I believe, although I know 'jdinisia' will contradict me, that the forensic integrity of the supposed beach murder scene was corrupted because the 'resident' RTP allowed local 'celebrites' and rubberneckers to wander into the taped off areas. There are several photos on this thread to show this. Also the RTP have been berated publicly for not calling in forensic pathologists immediately to examine the scene.

There are several unsubstantiated theories as to why Hannah was so badly mutilated, rejection/revenge for loss of face being one suggestion put forward. Another theory is Hannah was shot in the head and the mutilation was done to disguise this and/or remove the bullet. IMHO I doubt any serious uncorrupted forensic work was done in the immediate aftermath of the bodies being discovered. I suggest you don't rule out (or in) any scenario at this stage.

So there is a every chance that the uk may have already found this.

[sweatalot]

Comment to Lozza

Posted Yesterday, 22:31

The gun theory was discovered by an Israeli Forensic team. They have marked out areas where blood and tissue were and come to this conclusion after many hours scientifically setting the scene.

Interesting.

Do you have a source for it? In the CSI website it was mentioned that an Israeli expert just said there was a gun shot.

"many hours scientifically setting the scene."

where is this from?

Edited to add Lozza as quoted poster

Edited October 28, 2014 by sweatalot

[DarloKnight]

Burmese are 100% innocent if this is true

According to CSILA, Hannah was shot in the head before she was hit by the hoe. He claims he already knew this but didn't want to talk about it because the graphic nature of the image. Apparently a forensic experts told CSILA that Hannah's head looked like was suffered from a bullet wound and this is why the killer(s) used the hoe as a cover up.

I don't know it this is true, this even adds more fuel to the fire the Burmese are totally innocent because I really don't think these Burmese boys carried around a gun did they? I may add I saw the unedited picture, which I do not recommend anybody to look at, but it does makes sense to me.

Easy sorted. The cops will now have another rumble thru the bushes where they found the phone, and will find a gun in a plastic bag.

Weirdly, there was a gun and poss hand grenade in suspects room during vid clip of police search, same time they showed the phone `found`. Sorry, don`t have link (1`m in icu mbike) but I saw it a couple of weeks back posted by Dogmatrix I think.

Yes I saw the the gun in the video clip it was actually in a case, but it still does not mean she was shot......

It also does not mean it belonged to the Burmese. Thai police is well known for planting

If you read a few posts further back I have also said that a certain FB page an American lady who is in America who as been giving advice to this FB page as also said that with the photo evidence of the immediate surrounding area this is not from a gunshot wound. Read it if you have access it was very informative.

[sweatalot]

I haven't ignored anyone - I try to think the mumbo-jumbo as an entertaining factor inbetween the serious posts. They're like cheerleaders distracting from the play in different sports - just not as good looking

You can ignore them. You will find their posts together with answers to them. Saves a lot of space and time and gives better overview

[sweatalot]

are you for real? he is seen on the CCTV video footage running, after the time of the murders. did you miss that one????

AND just released, again, video of him shaking hands with david, that dead giveaway walk seals it. How the hell are they going to get out of this..impossible.

We have evidence that nomsod WAS in Koh Tao at 1 am.....locals have been saying this all along.

I saw that video. It might be him - but I am not sure. Do you really think it could be evidence? May be experts can say - hopefully.

[sweatalot]

BoristheBlade, on 27 Oct 2014 - 06:50, said:

JTJ

Toxicology would indicate the presence of gun power/ bullet fragments in Hanna's wounds, also Date Rape Drugs in her blood..........

BoristheBlade, on 27 Oct 2014 - 06:43, said:

WOW, the smoking gun....quite literally!

Mr Yim, on 27 Oct 2014 - 06:37, said:

JTJ and JDinasia, if the latest post from CSI LA is indeed true, your faith in the RTP is going to look very stupid.

It's curious that an RTP spokesperson announced early on in the investigation that they had the results of the toxicology tests on the victims but they wouldn't be released publicly "out of respect for the victims' familes". I wonder how this should be interpreted? Was there evidence of drugs, or indeed gunshot wounds?

Thank you for mentioning this. I have been missing this. If there were proof for date rape drugs this would be very important. Drugging her would show that somebody planned - at least - raping, may be more and it would also make it more unlikely that the Burmese were involved.

[jdinasia]

I have to say, I don't normally continue reading much past the first 3 or 4 pages in a thread, and here we are at 24 pages and counting.

The one striking thing I notice in this thread is the continual, blind faith support given to the RTP by a very small number of posters here and I'm VERY curious to know the real reasons behind this support.

What are you getting out of it? Propping up the failing tourist economy on Koh Tao and hence your own businesses?

It is a facile attempt to try and discredit an opposing view to accuse someone of having a financial motive.

[sweatalot]

This is Thailand...have you ever seen a condo building or uni where there are NO people, apart from our nomsod @ 9.24 am.

The CCTV show him walking next to a timber table and chairs. The problem with that shot is, the table and chairs were removed months before.

This was confirmed by the condo admin office.

That would absolutely invalidate the CCTV "proof"

and also make it clear for everyone to see that they cannot be trusted. They are hiding omething. And there must be a motive.

That's why I consider it very important to have proof of

"This was confirmed by the condo admin office."

You have a reliable source?

I am not asking in order to counter you - but I think this is so important it should have a reliable source, so it can be used.

[sweatalot]

I getting more inclined to believe that this is not even going to reach court and charges will be dropped. Latest article just published from the Bangkok PXXt (not allowed to link to them) says the prosecutors have still not decided whether to charge them and they are also asking the British authorities for proof that the mobile phone belonged to David.

/quote]

I'm thinking the same thing. Actually, one of the most unprofessional things in the handling of this case has been this business of issuing constant 'reports', which in reality have turned out to be nothing more than speculation or wishful thinking. It paints the police into a corner, it makes them look incompetent, and it sets them up for a major loss of face when the real facts turn out to be different to what has been reported.

If the RTP learn nothing else from this fiasco, they should learn to confine their utterances to 'several leads are being followed', or ' a man is helping police with our inquiries' and other similar banalities until such time as they have a case agreed with the state prosecutor. It would free them up to shift their lines on inquiry as new evidence comes to light, it would take public pressure off them, and it would make them look less bloody incompetent.

I am afraid they will learn the wrong thing: just how to make their cover ups not so easy to look through and more water proof.

[Tatsujin]

I have to say, I don't normally continue reading much past the first 3 or 4 pages in a thread, and here we are at 24 pages and counting.

The one striking thing I notice in this thread is the continual, blind faith support given to the RTP by a very small number of posters here and I'm VERY curious to know the real reasons behind this support.

What are you getting out of it? Propping up the failing tourist economy on Koh Tao and hence your own businesses?

It is a facile attempt to try and discredit an opposing view to accuse someone of having a financial motive.

Thanks, but that's a deflection, not an answer to my question . . .

[jdinasia]

I have to say, I don't normally continue reading much past the first 3 or 4 pages in a thread, and here we are at 24 pages and counting.

The one striking thing I notice in this thread is the continual, blind faith support given to the RTP by a very small number of posters here and I'm VERY curious to know the real reasons behind this support.

What are you getting out of it? Propping up the failing tourist economy on Koh Tao and hence your own businesses?

It is a facile attempt to try and discredit an opposing view to accuse someone of having a financial motive.

Thanks, but that's a deflection, not an answer to my question . . .

Neither of your assertions. Again it is just a facile attempt to discredit an opposing view.

Are the people pointing at the family of one suspect who has been cleared actually business competitors? Probably not.

[kaorop]

I have to say, I don't normally continue reading much past the first 3 or 4 pages in a thread, and here we are at 24 pages and counting.

The one striking thing I notice in this thread is the continual, blind faith support given to the RTP by a very small number of posters here and I'm VERY curious to know the real reasons behind this support.

What are you getting out of it? Propping up the failing tourist economy on Koh Tao and hence your own businesses?

It is a facile attempt to try and discredit an opposing view to accuse someone of having a financial motive.

Then why have you posted more than any one single member across numerous threads on this matter

in full agreement with and basically parroting the rtp statements?

5555 i know I know, there is no way you will not try to avert/divert/distract/obfuscate any meaningful reply.

[boomerangutang]

Are the people pointing at the family of one suspect who has been cleared actually business competitors? Probab ly not.

If you're referring to Nomsod (son of headman) ...has he actually 'been cleared'? Probably 'yes' if you're talking with any Thai officials. However, all reasonable and scientific thinkers should continue to see him as prime suspect. Hopefully, the British experts will bring some reason and science to bear on this latter stage of the investigation.

[sweatalot]

Agree about toxicology reports proving important. In such a sensitive case it would be understandable not to release a toxicology report at this stage. That will be done at trial, whether or not substance(s) were found in Hannah's system (especially Hannah's).

It would depend on what drug(s), if any were found. If it was ecstacy and or marajuana, we can hazard a guess that these were taken voluntarily. Friends of Hannah may be able to confirm past usage and/or if she took something voluntarily that evening.

However, a drug such as Rohypnol, Valium or Temazepam would indicate deliberate foul play. Police (in a professional investigation) would've checked the suspects living quarters/clothing for signs of such drugs. I would've include Mon/Nomsod and Co in this, as they were early suspects in the case. This should've happened earlier (at least a warrant requested to search property etc).

Did this ever happen? I doubt it to be fair, but perhaps the police do have info we're not privy to regarding toxicology reports/searches. Although they have been mouthing off at every opportunity (until the UK cops arrived) about having the right suspects etc.

If the cops reveal that the Burmese suspects' DNA is inside Hannah and that they found date rape drugs on their person/in their living quarters which matched anything found in Hannah's system, we may have to accept their guilt, or at least part in the murders.

Personally, I think we'll find that the Uk cops will reveal evidence they have at some point which could change everything. This may be revealed to the Thai authorities, in order for them to claim the 'glory' and save face. As a former betting man, I think that's the most likely outcome here. Those videos I've seen look too much like Nomsod. The runing man one and the shaking hands one. I would like the view of a CCTV expert to say whether or not that 'Uni' video is fake. It doesn't look right to me either.

That's not me being a conspiracy nut, just saying what I see.

"If the cops reveal that the Burmese suspects' DNA is inside Hannah and that they found date rape drugs on their person/in their living quarters which matched anything found in Hannah's system, we may have to accept their guilt, or at least part in the murders."

Considering the credibility of Thai police and what we experienced with their handling this case - I would not accept even this "revelation". How do we know it's not a lie? If things were found - how do we know they were not planted?

[Tatsujin]

I have to say, I don't normally continue reading much past the first 3 or 4 pages in a thread, and here we are at 24 pages and counting.

The one striking thing I notice in this thread is the continual, blind faith support given to the RTP by a very small number of posters here and I'm VERY curious to know the real reasons behind this support.

What are you getting out of it? Propping up the failing tourist economy on Koh Tao and hence your own businesses?

It is a facile attempt to try and discredit an opposing view to accuse someone of having a financial motive.

Thanks, but that's a deflection, not an answer to my question . . .

Neither of your assertions. Again it is just a facile attempt to discredit an opposing view.

Are the people pointing at the family of one suspect who has been cleared actually business competitors? Probably not.

Again, not an answer, just a deflection.

Let's try this in a simpler way . . .

jdinasia > based on all your posts showing unwavering and unquestioning support for the less than sterling job the RTP have done and the innocence of certain influential members of the local families, why is it you give this unquestioning support to them? Are you are simply convinced 100% that everything the RTP and the local families have said and done is all above board with no ulterior motives whatsoever? Or is there another motive behind this support?