Pros Cons and Misunderstandings

[simondan]

" I wanted my wife to see the "Real" US not what the media portrays as the best place to live on the planet." Who what where portrays the best place to leave on the planet ...??? I heared of switserland, norway, singapore, UK australia, new zealand . south africa ? .. I never heared the US ?!

Check out the immigration statistics. One could argue that because the US draws the most immigrants than any other country in the world, that is must be the "best" for some reason or the other.

There are many ways to slice stats, in your example USA, by percentage of population, USA does not have the highest number of legal immigrants.

The US takes almost 1 million new immigrants each year....That's people that want to move and live permanently in the US. Name one country that has more legal immigrants each year than that?

You can quote all the "best places" surveys that you want. The fact is when it comes down mto people willing to move one's life and the costs associated with it, the US comes out on top every time.

Wow, you and the gumball dude serious? I mean, I love America, but wouldn't use the number of immigrants as proof. There are a gazillion Mexicans/Latin Americans pouring into the US every year. But it's mostly because of the utter hopelessness and despair that these migrants face in their home countries. And the fact that the US gov doesn't have the stomach to deal with illegal immigration in a decisive and convincing manner. Heck, Thailand gets tons of immigrants from Myanmar, Cambodia, etc. And it's because these folks face the same sort of hopelessness.

I like it but its gotta be off topic

[manarak]

but these are issues for another thread. Perhaps one on egalitarianism - ???

is there one?

[ianf]

Great analysis. For sure, the hustle bustle of the usa is a challenge for Thais. But Vietamese & chinese do well with the endless race in the usa. Why settle for hustle bustle of the usa if Thais have the right mix in life? I am 50/50, now living in thailand & trying to find a business to keep me mentally challenged & help w expenses.

They don't make 'finding a business' a very easy goal in Thailand. Almost impossible for a foreigner to find meaningful work.

[JAFO]

On some of that OP I fail to see the logic.

Where I, my Thai wife and our kids lived in the United States and in the UK, except for the crippling bills of maintaining, renting or owning a home, we found the standard cost of living mostly equated with Thailand, such as food, clothing and other sundry items and in many cases it was actually cheaper, state school education and medical on the national health, plus my Thai wife had all the same statutory rights as an American and a UK citizen, which is more than I can say for my situation in Thailand, being scared to put one foot out of place and not even allowed to fart in the bath without first obtaining the permission of the authorities and a work permit.

Regarding `she could not understand why people are so wasteful and inconsiderate`, nothing more pertains to this than the lifestyles of the Thais. Their trash and litter strewn everywhere, some parts of the open areas down my way have become local rubbish dumps, they burn their trash and fill the whole area with stinking, choking fumes and smoke, have no consideration whatsoever for others living within the community, and as for being wasteful, mostly everything in Thailand has become disposable and throw away, not much here is built to quality standards and made to last, so in fact the guy`s Thai wife should have felt right at home in the United States.

Actually I do not find Thailand as wasteful, nor does she. In many regards quite the opposite. But we need to define "wasteful" versus "littering" as you noted. Your garbage point is duly noted but that is just as bad here nowadays as taking stuff to a local dump site is costly so people are dumping on dead end streets and along roadways late at night forcing the city to have to clean up only raising city taxes at some point. People are fools. Its not as clean as one would like to think it is however.

With that said my wife read through many responses in this thread, she agreed with many and giggled at a few. Her comments; In the US she observed people buying new cars every year or 2, not only do they toss away a perfectly good car but they lose a ton of money. This is what she sees as wasteful, not garbage on a road. She understands why people have little to no savings in the bank. They buy a house and then sell in 5 years and all the furniture gets sold for pennies on the dollar. People throw out perfectly good clothes in piles after wearing a few times because the style is not in anymore. Where we live they have these once a month donation drives where they leave bags at houses to pick unwanted items. What she sees on the street that people are just giving away makes her shake her head. She stated it seems people in the states are not very happy with who they are and always try and keep up with the trends and the masses at any cost. They buy and buy and throw away perfectly good items to make room for the new stuff. When we are out and about she is quite observant.

I have truly enjoyed(and still do) her view on American lifestyle and living and I am glad to got to live it. So many things I never even paid attention too but now are on my radar. She has made me far more aware and from it a better person. She said it was WAY different then she imagined it based on what she had always seen on TV about the US.

Edited October 28, 2014 by JAFO

[benalibina]

On some of that OP I fail to see the logic.

Where I, my Thai wife and our kids lived in the United States and in the UK, except for the crippling bills of maintaining, renting or owning a home, we found the standard cost of living mostly equated with Thailand, such as food, clothing and other sundry items and in many cases it was actually cheaper, state school education and medical on the national health, plus my Thai wife had all the same statutory rights as an American and a UK citizen, which is more than I can say for my situation in Thailand, being scared to put one foot out of place and not even allowed to fart in the bath without first obtaining the permission of the authorities and a work permit.

Regarding `she could not understand why people are so wasteful and inconsiderate`, nothing more pertains to this than the lifestyles of the Thais. Their trash and litter strewn everywhere, some parts of the open areas down my way have become local rubbish dumps, they burn their trash and fill the whole area with stinking, choking fumes and smoke, have no consideration whatsoever for others living within the community, and as for being wasteful, mostly everything in Thailand has become disposable and throw away, not much here is built to quality standards and made to last, so in fact the guy`s Thai wife should have felt right at home in the United States.

Actually I do not find Thailand as wasteful, nor does she. In many regards quite the opposite. But we need to define "wasteful" versus "littering" as you noted. Your garbage point is duly noted but that is just as bad here nowadays as taking stuff to a local dump site is costly so people are dumping on dead end streets and along roadways late at night forcing the city to have to clean up only raising city taxes at some point. People are fools. Its not as clean as one would like to think it is however.

With that said my wife read through many responses in this thread, she agreed with many and giggled at a few. Her comments; In the US she observed people buying new cars every year or 2, not only do they toss away a perfectly good car but they lose a ton of money. This is what she sees as wasteful, not garbage on a road. She understands why people have little to no savings in the bank. They buy a house and then sell in 5 years and all the furniture gets sold for pennies on the dollar. People throw out perfectly good clothes in piles after wearing a few times because the style is not in anymore. Where we live they have these once a month donation drives where they leave bags at houses to pick unwanted items. What she sees on the street that people are just giving away makes her shake her head. She stated it seems people in the states are not very happy with who they are and always try and keep up with the trends and the masses at any cost. They buy and buy and throw away perfectly good items to make room for the new stuff. When we are out and about she is quite observant.

I have truly enjoyed(and still do) her view on American lifestyle and living and I am glad to got to live it. So many things I never even paid attention too but now are on my radar. She has made me far more aware and from it a better person. She said it was WAY different then she imagined it based on what she had always seen on TV about the US.

I concur that the point of view about your society from another makes one more aware about things. However i would not put oo much value in it because she, no offense meant, sees those things/attitudes because she recognizes them. You are clearly a person who listens and thinks about what your wife says. Good. If the opposite is true as well, living in Thailand, mentioning the faults, so to speak, you have a very good 1.

[Showbags]

Did you know that Indo motocy riders never look and are the worst in the world....and if they went to thailand, they would be dead in a week.

[simondan]

" I wanted my wife to see the "Real" US not what the media portrays as the best place to live on the planet." Who what where portrays the best place to leave on the planet ...??? I heared of switserland, norway, singapore, UK australia, new zealand . south africa ? .. I never heared the US ?!

Check out the immigration statistics. One could argue that because the US draws the most immigrants than any other country in the world, that is must be the "best" for some reason or the other.

There are many ways to slice stats, in your example USA, by percentage of population, USA does not have the highest number of legal immigrants.

The US takes almost 1 million new immigrants each year....That's people that want to move and live permanently in the US. Name one country that has more legal immigrants each year than that?

You can quote all the "best places" surveys that you want. The fact is when it comes down mto people willing to move one's life and the costs associated with it, the US comes out on top every time.

Wow, you and the gumball dude serious? I mean, I love America, but wouldn't use the number of immigrants as proof. There are a gazillion Mexicans/Latin Americans pouring into the US every year. But it's mostly because of the utter hopelessness and despair that these migrants face in their home countries. And the fact that the US gov doesn't have the stomach to deal with illegal immigration in a decisive and convincing manner. Heck, Thailand gets tons of immigrants from Myanmar, Cambodia, etc. And it's because these folks face the same sort of hopelessness.

Spot on.

Where else are desperate Mexicans going to try to emigrate to (cos they are the majority of that 1 million, I'll wager), Panama? Haiti? Or the richest, largest nation adjoining them? Its immigration of covenience, not real choice.

I was discussing this with my Thai mia noi the other day and she noted every one wants to immigrate to the States because they have the best propaganda machine in the world - Hollywood. She reckons its called projecting soft power but its an empty promise for the majority of those who fall for it.

She should know, she's spent years living there.

She thought that once these immigrants get there, give them a few years and a real alternative choice with a proper social security system and health care and a good climate, like Australia, and they would take it if they could.

In her opinion.

We've been to Australia and the first thing she noted compared to Thailand and the good ole US was the lack of rubbish (physical and metaphorical), and in contrast to the US (less so LOS), you know that that guy you get in a road rage incident with is not going to pull out a Bill of Rights guaranteed firearm and blow you away (highest gun crime in the world, thats something to be proud of, she says). Then regret it afterwards.

We (Australia) got with the 21st century and did away with that antiquated notion 2 decades ago. She was amazed when I told her that the reason the right to bear arms was enshrined in the US Bill of Rights over 200 years ago was to give the citizens the power to keep the govt in check.

'Ok sure, back then, but whats that got to do with today, and how is that democratic?' she asked. 'Farangs think Thais dont understand democracy, but that is REALLY crazy!'. Haha - she said it!

But overall, despite some countries like Oz that dont have the propaganda machine called Hollywood clearly offering superior lifestyles, the mia noi prefers Thailand, and so do I. She reckons slightly organised chaos trumps over-organised, over-regulated, over priced order every time.

God bless Thailand!

[JAFO]

On some of that OP I fail to see the logic.

Where I, my Thai wife and our kids lived in the United States and in the UK, except for the crippling bills of maintaining, renting or owning a home, we found the standard cost of living mostly equated with Thailand, such as food, clothing and other sundry items and in many cases it was actually cheaper, state school education and medical on the national health, plus my Thai wife had all the same statutory rights as an American and a UK citizen, which is more than I can say for my situation in Thailand, being scared to put one foot out of place and not even allowed to fart in the bath without first obtaining the permission of the authorities and a work permit.

Regarding `she could not understand why people are so wasteful and inconsiderate`, nothing more pertains to this than the lifestyles of the Thais. Their trash and litter strewn everywhere, some parts of the open areas down my way have become local rubbish dumps, they burn their trash and fill the whole area with stinking, choking fumes and smoke, have no consideration whatsoever for others living within the community, and as for being wasteful, mostly everything in Thailand has become disposable and throw away, not much here is built to quality standards and made to last, so in fact the guy`s Thai wife should have felt right at home in the United States.

Actually I do not find Thailand as wasteful, nor does she. In many regards quite the opposite. But we need to define "wasteful" versus "littering" as you noted. Your garbage point is duly noted but that is just as bad here nowadays as taking stuff to a local dump site is costly so people are dumping on dead end streets and along roadways late at night forcing the city to have to clean up only raising city taxes at some point. People are fools. Its not as clean as one would like to think it is however.

With that said my wife read through many responses in this thread, she agreed with many and giggled at a few. Her comments; In the US she observed people buying new cars every year or 2, not only do they toss away a perfectly good car but they lose a ton of money. This is what she sees as wasteful, not garbage on a road. She understands why people have little to no savings in the bank. They buy a house and then sell in 5 years and all the furniture gets sold for pennies on the dollar. People throw out perfectly good clothes in piles after wearing a few times because the style is not in anymore. Where we live they have these once a month donation drives where they leave bags at houses to pick unwanted items. What she sees on the street that people are just giving away makes her shake her head. She stated it seems people in the states are not very happy with who they are and always try and keep up with the trends and the masses at any cost. They buy and buy and throw away perfectly good items to make room for the new stuff. When we are out and about she is quite observant.

I have truly enjoyed(and still do) her view on American lifestyle and living and I am glad to got to live it. So many things I never even paid attention too but now are on my radar. She has made me far more aware and from it a better person. She said it was WAY different then she imagined it based on what she had always seen on TV about the US.

I concur that the point of view about your society from another makes one more aware about things. However i would not put oo much value in it because she, no offense meant, sees those things/attitudes because she recognizes them. You are clearly a person who listens and thinks about what your wife says. Good. If the opposite is true as well, living in Thailand, mentioning the faults, so to speak, you have a very good 1.

Funny, you should mention that, the roles reverse when we are home in Thailand, I become the observant one and point out things to compare. She is always appalled how people behave in both places as am I. She never defends Thailand or is biased one way or the other. When I see a load of garbage dumped in a field and make comment she is quick to agree. Or why they save some things and not discard. Its a very interesting contrast between the 2 countries and one I quite frankly enjoy. In Thailand it seems to me people seldom throw anything away. I have watched my FIL pick up nails and various things saying he can use them, why waste. But I know if I was here in the states we just toss them out figuring we will just buy more. When a tool breaks, they fix it. Here most throw them out and head to the Local Lowes or Home Depot and buy new. One time I caught a shirt on a branch in the yard. Tore it up. I took it off and went to throw it away. My wife said "Give that to me Dek Noi, I can fix it". She did in 5 minutes and it looked Great. Its those type of examples and behaviors. I admit balancing the 2 cultures can be hard at times. When here you tend to assimilate quickly and you toss out more and buy more, when I am in Thailand I tend to save more and fix versus buying. She laughs now when I break something and fix it versus tossing it. Sometimes she sees me getting ready to throw something away and I get the 'What are you going to do with that" comment.....I quickly respond.."OH gee I was going to put it over here and fix it later...HAHA"

Trust me when I say she is far quicker to pick on Thailand then here in the states. She just says, she wishes she could have a small portion of what people toss out here with little regard. She could sell in Thailand and make really good money.

[sdanielmcev]

We're going to small town Indiana and big town Houston during Christmas season. I'll let you know what she thinks.

That is, if I'm still on TV. Really getting tired of these few 'snipers' that seem to be degrading every thread.

[Morakot]

She thinks its hilarious to watch people walk their dogs and have to pick up their poop

Stereotypes and generalisation spring to mind...

Well, this is a still image from my dashcam recorded this afternoon while driving through a neighbourhood in BKK. As you can see a lady is walking a dog that is kept on the leash, while she carries a poo scooper -- very similar to this one you can find at your average retailer.

Edited October 28, 2014 by Morakot

[sami10]

David48

Excellent topic. A little background:

We live in the US, in Massachusetts, roughly 30 miles west of Boston. We both work full-time and have one child who is 15 years old. We are in our early 50's and have been married for almost 20 years. My wife, who is of Chinese descent, was born in a small village in north Nakhon Pathom but moved to Bangkok for school in the 5th grade. She graduated from Chula with a degree in English. She worked at the refugee camps in Panat Nikom and as an English speaking tour guide in Bangkok. She came here to pursue her dream of an advanced degree in an English-speaking country. She did not go home.

We live here because:

We feel that our jobs do not translate well to Thailand (pharmacist and social worker)

We feel that our daughter is getting a better education here without having to make additional payments for private schooling.

We make enough to live a comfortable life and also save.

My wife's job is with the state government and she is eligible for a pension that will give us a reasonable base of retirement income.

Living here has given us the opportunity to own a house, have no debt and save enough for our daughter's college education

I am pretty sure that I could not navigate living and working in Thailand full time.

Pros of living here:

My wife is very direct, speaks her mind and is not overly concerned with ruffling a few feathers. Society here seems to be more forgiving of that behavior

She is free of the confines of Thai society as she remembers them.

We have jobs that allow us to live here comfortably

Infrastructure is fairly good and travel is easy

Availability of goods and services is high though can be costly

Cons of living here:

Some of the following are based on what part of the country we live in, not the US itself:

My wife does not like winter

My wife lives here but does not consider it home: her family, old friends and comfort zone are in Thailand.

My wife misses city living and the convenience of Bangkok, traffic not withstanding

My wife feels that people here are less friendly

Fresh Thai ingredients are not always readily available

Other observations:

My wife feels that children are given too much latitude and freedom, although she also recognizes that this also has benefits

People are wasteful.

Many people live beyond their means and do not/can not save

Not a day goes by that I do not appreciate what my wife has done. Before she left Thailand, she had not driven a car, lived with anyone other than her family (with the exception of several cycles at the refugee camp) or spent much time cooking. She left a well-paying job to come to the US. I am sure that I could not have done the same.

[Panadero]

That is a great post, David, and I agree with much of it.

However, Silicon Valley is one of the most expensive places to live in the US. It is called what it is because it become the center of the computer and internet revolution. (Silicon wafers which are used in high tech electronics to make things such as integrated circuits and other things. These are also silicon semiconductors.)

The number of high tech and famous companies there is massive, including Intel, Yahoo and you name it.

The average income there is well above the national average and of course things are expensive. This is basically just South of San Francisco which is also expensive.

So the wife's experience is big city, expensive, not the greatest California weather due to fog rolling in from the Pacific Ocean, crowding, and yes, some people who think they are better than.

I would like to see the same article written by someone who moved to a much smaller and less expensive town with better weather, much less traffic and frankly, more good common people.

The plus side is that the OP who, being transferred by what must be an international tech company, probably has a very good job and income.

While I agree that Silcon Valley is an expensive place to live .....you fail to point out why?

Jobs, jobs, jobs.....AND high paying jobs!

There's a reason that Poe Dunk Texass is cheap (small US cities) ....few jobs, dying infrastructuce, youth looking for a way to escape....but the fact remains that even in Poe Dunk Texass property taxes, payroll taxes, social security, medical insurance fees, sales taxes etc....add to a high cost of living in the US! Think about it ....small city, Why?...no one wants to live there except for those who are stuck there because they can't afford to move out!

Oh, and by the way, there is NO fog in Silicon Valley (Mountains stops the fog before it reaches the valley) so the weather is fantastic and hot!

Uh…thats spelled Podunk, Texas

[Mossfinn]

semantics, semantics, you need to drop an e mate!

[Mossfinn]

Now I would love to hear from someone who took a Thai to live in a small but nice town.

Well, I did, just not in the U.S.

To be fair, we could do either, live in Thailand, or in the UK.

The wife knew at the beginning that the initial years would be in the UK, so just got on with it, although the lack of family was very difficult, plus we landed on New Years Day, 30d to -2 and my heating had broken down, that could be a deal breaker, thank Heavens for multi-tog duvets.

She got a job in a nursery, then went to further education and now runs a child minding service, needless to say, she is in demand.

Rarely complains about the corruption in Thailand, or the incompetence of the Brits, we manage both within the parameters of our influence.

Our choice of abode, mine is Thailand, she could make an argument for both, but our boy steadfastly refuses to go to Thailand, should he be the deciding factor, well yes in our case, because neither of us cares either way, as long as he is happy.

Cost of Living, well, I have seen a difference in Thailand in the last 15 years, but stealth tax in the UK, you need a degree from the University of Hard Knocks to understand the significance.

One other specific development is health issues, particularly brilliant where we live, but my contact with Thai Institutions have also been excellent, you just need to pay. Indirect taxes against direct taxes, I suppose.

Education, is it really that bad? My attitude, and I believe strongly in this, if you commit to the building blocks of his education, you are in the driving seat, and it will take your time, effort, commitment, drive and understanding to instil a level of knowledge, if you leave it totally in the hands of others, you are doomed to the prophesy of self defeat.

We are all different, and what would be a great shout for one, could be an unmitigated disaster for others, including the vagaries that make up each family, or individual grouping, or the subset within.

Just a couple of other notes, it is a good thread, try and keep the bickering to a minimum, and really I am interested, is there fog in Southern California? There is a song there somewhere, I should really try and write it

Good Luck

Moss

[Time Traveller]

The US takes almost 1 million new immigrants each year....That's people that want to move and live permanently in the US. Name one country that has more legal immigrants each year than that?

You can quote all the "best places" surveys that you want. The fact is when it comes down mto people willing to move one's life and the costs associated with it, the US comes out on top every time.

Wow, you and the gumball dude serious? I mean, I love America, but wouldn't use the number of immigrants as proof. There are a gazillion Mexicans/Latin Americans pouring into the US every year. But it's mostly because of the utter hopelessness and despair that these migrants face in their home countries. And the fact that the US gov doesn't have the stomach to deal with illegal immigration in a decisive and convincing manner. Heck, Thailand gets tons of immigrants from Myanmar, Cambodia, etc. And it's because these folks face the same sort of hopelessness.

Ok, look at it another way....Find one single country where the number of Americans immigrating to it is more than the number from that country immigrating to USA.......good luck finding one.

Like I said at the end of the day you can do all the talk in the world. But the only thing that matters is the actual number of people that vote with their feet.

[simondan]

The US takes almost 1 million new immigrants each year....That's people that want to move and live permanently in the US. Name one country that has more legal immigrants each year than that?

You can quote all the "best places" surveys that you want. The fact is when it comes down mto people willing to move one's life and the costs associated with it, the US comes out on top every time.

Wow, you and the gumball dude serious? I mean, I love America, but wouldn't use the number of immigrants as proof. There are a gazillion Mexicans/Latin Americans pouring into the US every year. But it's mostly because of the utter hopelessness and despair that these migrants face in their home countries. And the fact that the US gov doesn't have the stomach to deal with illegal immigration in a decisive and convincing manner. Heck, Thailand gets tons of immigrants from Myanmar, Cambodia, etc. And it's because these folks face the same sort of hopelessness.

Ok, look at it another way....Find one single country where the number of Americans immigrating to it is more than the number from that country immigrating to USA.......good luck finding one.

Like I said at the end of the day you can do all the talk in the world. But the only thing that matters is the actual number of people that vote with their feet.

Another off topic post shortly to be removed Im sure...

[AYJAYDEE]

The US takes almost 1 million new immigrants each year....That's people that want to move and live permanently in the US. Name one country that has more legal immigrants each year than that?

You can quote all the "best places" surveys that you want. The fact is when it comes down mto people willing to move one's life and the costs associated with it, the US comes out on top every time.

Wow, you and the gumball dude serious? I mean, I love America, but wouldn't use the number of immigrants as proof. There are a gazillion Mexicans/Latin Americans pouring into the US every year. But it's mostly because of the utter hopelessness and despair that these migrants face in their home countries. And the fact that the US gov doesn't have the stomach to deal with illegal immigration in a decisive and convincing manner. Heck, Thailand gets tons of immigrants from Myanmar, Cambodia, etc. And it's because these folks face the same sort of hopelessness.

Ok, look at it another way....Find one single country where the number of Americans immigrating to it is more than the number from that country immigrating to USA.......good luck finding one.

Like I said at the end of the day you can do all the talk in the world. But the only thing that matters is the actual number of people that vote with their feet.

irrelevant! Its the number of immigrants that are permitted to enter that determines how many come to a country!

[WitawatWatawit]

We're going to small town Indiana and big town Houston during Christmas season. I'll let you know what she thinks.

That is, if I'm still on TV. Really getting tired of these few 'snipers' that seem to be degrading every thread.

Ditto. Picking holes in someone's post is all well and good, but to play keyboard warrior in order to be nasty and unpleasant only degrades other members. And of course it shows up their own character flaws - little people with twisted values.

For the first time I'm using "ignore" - ayjaidee (where on earth are you coming from, pal? You can make good posts sometimes, but then degrade yourself). SoiBiker and wilcopops are simply dicks - no matter how correct their arguments, I don't do low class. Bye, bye.

You can add your own names.

[AYJAYDEE]

We're going to small town Indiana and big town Houston during Christmas season. I'll let you know what she thinks.

That is, if I'm still on TV. Really getting tired of these few 'snipers' that seem to be degrading every thread.

Ditto. Picking holes in someone's post is all well and good, but to play keyboard warrior in order to be nasty and unpleasant only degrades other members. And of course it shows up their own character flaws - little people with twisted values.

For the first time I'm using "ignore" - ayjaidee (where on earth are you coming from, pal? You can make good posts sometimes, but then degrade yourself). SoiBiker and wilcopops are simply dicks - no matter how correct their arguments, I don't do low class. Bye, bye.

You can add your own names.

puffed up balloons get popped. it was ever thus.

[siamike]

On some of that OP I fail to see the logic.

Where I, my Thai wife and our kids lived in the United States and in the UK, except for the crippling bills of maintaining, renting or owning a home, we found the standard cost of living mostly equated with Thailand, such as food, clothing and other sundry items and in many cases it was actually cheaper, state school education and medical on the national health, plus my Thai wife had all the same statutory rights as an American and a UK citizen, which is more than I can say for my situation in Thailand, being scared to put one foot out of place and not even allowed to fart in the bath without first obtaining the permission of the authorities and a work permit.

Regarding `she could not understand why people are so wasteful and inconsiderate`, nothing more pertains to this than the lifestyles of the Thais. Their trash and litter strewn everywhere, some parts of the open areas down my way have become local rubbish dumps, they burn their trash and fill the whole area with stinking, choking fumes and smoke, have no consideration whatsoever for others living within the community, and as for being wasteful, mostly everything in Thailand has become disposable and throw away, not much here is built to quality standards and made to last, so in fact the guy`s Thai wife should have felt right at home in the United States.

Actually I do not find Thailand as wasteful, nor does she. In many regards quite the opposite. But we need to define "wasteful" versus "littering" as you noted. Your garbage point is duly noted but that is just as bad here nowadays as taking stuff to a local dump site is costly so people are dumping on dead end streets and along roadways late at night forcing the city to have to clean up only raising city taxes at some point. People are fools. Its not as clean as one would like to think it is however.

With that said my wife read through many responses in this thread, she agreed with many and giggled at a few. Her comments; In the US she observed people buying new cars every year or 2, not only do they toss away a perfectly good car but they lose a ton of money. This is what she sees as wasteful, not garbage on a road. She understands why people have little to no savings in the bank. They buy a house and then sell in 5 years and all the furniture gets sold for pennies on the dollar. People throw out perfectly good clothes in piles after wearing a few times because the style is not in anymore. Where we live they have these once a month donation drives where they leave bags at houses to pick unwanted items. What she sees on the street that people are just giving away makes her shake her head. She stated it seems people in the states are not very happy with who they are and always try and keep up with the trends and the masses at any cost. They buy and buy and throw away perfectly good items to make room for the new stuff. When we are out and about she is quite observant.

I have truly enjoyed(and still do) her view on American lifestyle and living and I am glad to got to live it. So many things I never even paid attention too but now are on my radar. She has made me far more aware and from it a better person. She said it was WAY different then she imagined it based on what she had always seen on TV about the US.

I concur that the point of view about your society from another makes one more aware about things. However i would not put oo much value in it because she, no offense meant, sees those things/attitudes because she recognizes them. You are clearly a person who listens and thinks about what your wife says. Good. If the opposite is true as well, living in Thailand, mentioning the faults, so to speak, you have a very good 1.

Funny, you should mention that, the roles reverse when we are home in Thailand, I become the observant one and point out things to compare. She is always appalled how people behave in both places as am I. She never defends Thailand or is biased one way or the other. When I see a load of garbage dumped in a field and make comment she is quick to agree. Or why they save some things and not discard. Its a very interesting contrast between the 2 countries and one I quite frankly enjoy. In Thailand it seems to me people seldom throw anything away. I have watched my FIL pick up nails and various things saying he can use them, why waste. But I know if I was here in the states we just toss them out figuring we will just buy more. When a tool breaks, they fix it. Here most throw them out and head to the Local Lowes or Home Depot and buy new. One time I caught a shirt on a branch in the yard. Tore it up. I took it off and went to throw it away. My wife said "Give that to me Dek Noi, I can fix it". She did in 5 minutes and it looked Great. Its those type of examples and behaviors. I admit balancing the 2 cultures can be hard at times. When here you tend to assimilate quickly and you toss out more and buy more, when I am in Thailand I tend to save more and fix versus buying. She laughs now when I break something and fix it versus tossing it. Sometimes she sees me getting ready to throw something away and I get the 'What are you going to do with that" comment.....I quickly respond.."OH gee I was going to put it over here and fix it later...HAHA"

Trust me when I say she is far quicker to pick on Thailand then here in the states. She just says, she wishes she could have a small portion of what people toss out here with little regard. She could sell in Thailand and make really good money.

JAFO, my Thai wife absolutely loved going to a few of the many flea markets in and around Silicon Valley...she particularly liked the one held in the De Anza college parking lot (in Palo Alto). For her, it was the closest thing in the US that compared to Thailand's markets.

[cchina184]

Having lived in China, US, and Thailand, I prefer the US for making money, Thailand for spending it and quality of life, and China to visit when it's too hot here. I worked for 10 years in the US, lived like a hermit, made enough to not have to work any more living in Thailand. By living a sequestered life in the US, I was able to avoid the ever present hostility toward foreigners who are not white.

[Time Traveller]

The US takes almost 1 million new immigrants each year....That's people that want to move and live permanently in the US. Name one country that has more legal immigrants each year than that?

You can quote all the "best places" surveys that you want. The fact is when it comes down mto people willing to move one's life and the costs associated with it, the US comes out on top every time.

Wow, you and the gumball dude serious? I mean, I love America, but wouldn't use the number of immigrants as proof. There are a gazillion Mexicans/Latin Americans pouring into the US every year. But it's mostly because of the utter hopelessness and despair that these migrants face in their home countries. And the fact that the US gov doesn't have the stomach to deal with illegal immigration in a decisive and convincing manner. Heck, Thailand gets tons of immigrants from Myanmar, Cambodia, etc. And it's because these folks face the same sort of hopelessness.

Ok, look at it another way....Find one single country where the number of Americans immigrating to it is more than the number from that country immigrating to USA.......good luck finding one.

Like I said at the end of the day you can do all the talk in the world. But the only thing that matters is the actual number of people that vote with their feet.

irrelevant! Its the number of immigrants that are permitted to enter that determines how many come to a country!

Exactly, The numbers would be over 20 million immigrants a year if the U.S. permitted it.

[AYJAYDEE]

Exactly, The numbers would be over 20 million immigrants a year if the U.S. permitted it.

same goes for any country of any size

[Thai at Heart]

On some of that OP I fail to see the logic.

Where I, my Thai wife and our kids lived in the United States and in the UK, except for the crippling bills of maintaining, renting or owning a home, we found the standard cost of living mostly equated with Thailand, such as food, clothing and other sundry items and in many cases it was actually cheaper, state school education and medical on the national health, plus my Thai wife had all the same statutory rights as an American and a UK citizen, which is more than I can say for my situation in Thailand, being scared to put one foot out of place and not even allowed to fart in the bath without first obtaining the permission of the authorities and a work permit.

Regarding `she could not understand why people are so wasteful and inconsiderate`, nothing more pertains to this than the lifestyles of the Thais. Their trash and litter strewn everywhere, some parts of the open areas down my way have become local rubbish dumps, they burn their trash and fill the whole area with stinking, choking fumes and smoke, have no consideration whatsoever for others living within the community, and as for being wasteful, mostly everything in Thailand has become disposable and throw away, not much here is built to quality standards and made to last, so in fact the guy`s Thai wife should have felt right at home in the United States.

Actually I do not find Thailand as wasteful, nor does she. In many regards quite the opposite. But we need to define "wasteful" versus "littering" as you noted. Your garbage point is duly noted but that is just as bad here nowadays as taking stuff to a local dump site is costly so people are dumping on dead end streets and along roadways late at night forcing the city to have to clean up only raising city taxes at some point. People are fools. Its not as clean as one would like to think it is however.

With that said my wife read through many responses in this thread, she agreed with many and giggled at a few. Her comments; In the US she observed people buying new cars every year or 2, not only do they toss away a perfectly good car but they lose a ton of money. This is what she sees as wasteful, not garbage on a road. She understands why people have little to no savings in the bank. They buy a house and then sell in 5 years and all the furniture gets sold for pennies on the dollar. People throw out perfectly good clothes in piles after wearing a few times because the style is not in anymore. Where we live they have these once a month donation drives where they leave bags at houses to pick unwanted items. What she sees on the street that people are just giving away makes her shake her head. She stated it seems people in the states are not very happy with who they are and always try and keep up with the trends and the masses at any cost. They buy and buy and throw away perfectly good items to make room for the new stuff. When we are out and about she is quite observant.

I have truly enjoyed(and still do) her view on American lifestyle and living and I am glad to got to live it. So many things I never even paid attention too but now are on my radar. She has made me far more aware and from it a better person. She said it was WAY different then she imagined it based on what she had always seen on TV about the US.

She should be happy. If foreigners stopped this habit, half of Asia would be out of a job.

Anyway, I thought foreigners were keep niao.

[Mossfinn]

There are many reasons for immigration, force and actions, and very relevant reasons for control.

Each and every one of us could come up with reasons for the whys and wherefores of each reason, the economic climate in the individuals home country, and conversely the climate in the hoped for country.

Locality, porous of borders, ease of transport and family ties in said proposed country, maybe even romantic reasons for travelling near or far, we could all fire back and forth comparable, contrary and when necessary controversial views and reasons in regard to your own personal view points.

But there is no reason for reasoned debate on this thread in regard to who has the claim for best country and/or who has the most immigrants and associated arguments within.

But I guess that is no reason why people won't keep posting unreasonable posts on a very reasonable thread.

Good Luck

Moss

[kannot]

For me its easy, "She" earns a western salary in an Asian country.............because of that Im retired.

[sdanielmcev]

We're going to small town Indiana and big town Houston during Christmas season. I'll let you know what she thinks.

That is, if I'm still on TV. Really getting tired of these few 'snipers' that seem to be degrading every thread.

Ditto. Picking holes in someone's post is all well and good, but to play keyboard warrior in order to be nasty and unpleasant only degrades other members. And of course it shows up their own character flaws - little people with twisted values.

For the first time I'm using "ignore" - ayjaidee (where on earth are you coming from, pal? You can make good posts sometimes, but then degrade yourself). SoiBiker and wilcopops are simply dicks - no matter how correct their arguments, I don't do low class. Bye, bye.

You can add your own names.

puffed up balloons get popped. it was ever thus.

Yes. By a prick.

[JAFO]

JAFO, my Thai wife absolutely loved going to a few of the many flea markets in and around Silicon Valley...she particularly liked the one held in the De Anza college parking lot (in Palo Alto). For her, it was the closest thing in the US that compared to Thailand's markets.

We have been to a few weekend market places that some of the local Thais have recommended to her. We found this really cool little Cambodian/Thai store in SJ in this little hole in wall business complex. They Import a lot of Thai spices and there appear to be some locals that grow specific herbs and sell there. Of course my wife grows a ton of her own veggies and herbs on her own.

[NeverSure]

snip...Just a couple of other notes, it is a good thread, try and keep the bickering to a minimum, and really I am interested, is there fog in Southern California? There is a song there somewhere, I should really try and write it

Good Luck

Moss

There is some fog in S.California along the Coast in the winter but not that much.

The post in David's OP mentioned Silicon Valley which is the San Francisco Bay Area which is technically Northern California although it is really more in the middle of the coastline. California is about 1,000 miles (1,600 kms) long from North. to South and it gets colder toward the North. Much colder at the N. border region.

I'm enjoying this thread all but for those who insist that one spot in the US is the real US. The US is huge with 88,000 miles of saltwater shoreline and more usable land than any other country. It has a great diversity of climates, scenery, topography, and surely cultures. It would be fair to say that while I love living in the US, there are parts of it I would hate.

So as I read this, I pay as much attention to where a Thai woman lived as to what she thought of it.

[AYJAYDEE]

We're going to small town Indiana and big town Houston during Christmas season. I'll let you know what she thinks.

That is, if I'm still on TV. Really getting tired of these few 'snipers' that seem to be degrading every thread.

Ditto. Picking holes in someone's post is all well and good, but to play keyboard warrior in order to be nasty and unpleasant only degrades other members. And of course it shows up their own character flaws - little people with twisted values.

For the first time I'm using "ignore" - ayjaidee (where on earth are you coming from, pal? You can make good posts sometimes, but then degrade yourself). SoiBiker and wilcopops are simply dicks - no matter how correct their arguments, I don't do low class. Bye, bye.

You can add your own names.

puffed up balloons get popped. it was ever thus.

Yes. By a prick.

its spelled pin