Prosecutor demands more evidence from the police handling Koh Tao case

[Number 3]

This is what, the second time the prosecutor has sent the brief back to police asking for more information. At least one person in the chain of this investigation understands how important this trial is going to be.

I think this is the 3rd and it sounds like the Prosecutor realises it is a set up and wants no part of it as it will tarnish his reputation. Good on him, sounds like a decent bloke.

Don't be misguided. It was all ready to be pushed through then social media hit like a swarm of locusts and the Brits announced their "onlookers " status. He then got very nervous.

This chap is well known in Samui for certain connections and his ability to manipulate and manage certain aspects of a criminal case. Let's say if I had a case down that way I d be praying to have this chap on mine!

[Thai at Heart]

Meanwhile, lawyer Aung Myo Than, who represents the two Myanmar suspects in the case, commented that "Thai police should make sure they have concrete evidence before the suspects are charged in court, as they may face the death penalty. The police submitted the DNA test as the only evidence and not a single witness was present. That's why Koh Samui prosecutors returned the case to the Thai police to find further evidence. Now they want to conduct a DNA test again. We have to consult the two defendants whether they want to go ahead with the second DNA test."

It would depend on whether the DNA submission was an exact match or a partial match, or just an opinion. If it wasn't a perfect match, the B2 should be advised to not retake the test (for obvious reasons). And, as the case is now complete, the B2 cannot be forced to submit another DNA sample. Legally, any partial match would not be evidence that could pass beyond reasonable doubt as being reliable.

Please define partial match in this context. What does it mean?

Human? Asian? 1:?????

[Number 3]

Meanwhile, lawyer Aung Myo Than, who represents the two Myanmar suspects in the case, commented that "Thai police should make sure they have concrete evidence before the suspects are charged in court, as they may face the death penalty. The police submitted the DNA test as the only evidence and not a single witness was present. That's why Koh Samui prosecutors returned the case to the Thai police to find further evidence. Now they want to conduct a DNA test again. We have to consult the two defendants whether they want to go ahead with the second DNA test."

It would depend on whether the DNA submission was an exact match or a partial match, or just an opinion. If it wasn't a perfect match, the B2 should be advised to not retake the test (for obvious reasons). And, as the case is now complete, the B2 cannot be forced to submit another DNA sample. Legally, any partial match would not be evidence that could pass beyond reasonable doubt as being reliable.

Please define partial match in this context. What does it mean?

Human? Asian? 1:?????

Human?

Cracker....

[falangjim]

Why would any self-respecting professional want to touch what the RTP have concocted? Keep sending it back. This is what handing over the work must have looked like.

[PS2]

There doesn't appear to be a solid case against the rwo Burmese suspects. No way would they keep returning the file otherwise. This case has me torn. My hunch is that the two Burmese lads are innocent, but if their sperm is in/on Hannah then it has to raise doubts. Massive doubts. If it is sperm from the accussed, we haven't heard them saying the RTP extracted it from them have we?

I think what people need to know is the type of DNA found. Was it 'touch DNA' or sperm/skin inside Hannah's fingernails etc.Sharing a cigarrette doesn't prove much, unless the suspects denied ever sitting with her on the beach. I would smell a rat if that was the case.

One thing I will say is this...the person or persons that raped Hannah was also the killer (or one of the killers). Some (unbelievably) seem to be in denail about that. Sure, it's possible, but pretty damn unlikely.

You do realize that the two men got DNA tested twice.

First with the big roundup with Burmese they were cleared.

[Fat Haggis]

So how come the second round of DNA results from the accused hasn't been done as quickly as Nomsod?

[pendingo]

re-open the investigation and accept help from British and American

So by suggesting Americans get involved why exactly ?,

Are you suggesting the British coppers cant handle this without the US ?....ironic seeing as Britain "invented" modern police investigation techniques/methodology.

Or is it a case your from the US ?....and just couldn't help your help yourself waving "the flag" ?

For the record Soutpeel I'm from the UK so it's not a case of "waving the flag" for any one nation.

What I am suggesting is cooperation between countries when it comes to the murder of foreign nationals.

If the victims had been Americans I would have said the same thing.

I am not questioning the competence of the British police either as I'm sure they are quite capable.

However there is a history of successful cooperation between the British and American police when it comes to solving complex cases and that's why I suggested it.

So let's turn this on its head shall we as it looks like you are the one doing the flag waving from where I'm standing.

I believe that the US have more advanced technology available in Thailand. So not a bad suggestion at all.

I still say if these kids were American the tanks would have been all over this case with no iffs or buts. Unlike her majesty's team.

I hope that good ol Uncle Sam may come out in public support of the Brits at some stage soon. This may lend a lot to what the Brits can achieve on the ground here

Here's a link: http://www.open.ac.uk/research/main/news/international-co-operation-crucial-for-solving-crimes-against-britons-abroad except I would replace "Britons" with "Foreign Nationals"

[Graham8888]

It is the 4th time the prosecutor has returned the case!!

Unlike some posters here, he doubt the standard (or lack thereoff) of the work by the police force!!

Isn't this supposed to be the "perfect case " ?!!

[joebrown]

Apparently the Prosecutor has seen the roti/pancake salesman' video interview where he categorically states the 2 in custody told him the murder weapon, or one of the weapons was a large wine bottle. This interview is featured today on another well known Facebook page. The plot thickens!!!

Edited November 1, 2014 by joebrown

[Thai at Heart]

Apparently the Prosecutor has seen the roti/pancake salesman' video interview where he categorically states the 2 in custody told him the murder weapon, or one of the weapons was a large wine bottle. This interview is featured today on another well known Facebook page. The plot thickens!!!

Well that's really adding to the open and shut nature of this case. This roti salesman better make a run for it quick, because if this was cluedo, that doesn't fit the story.

Too many people trying to get square lies into to a round hole.

Edited November 1, 2014 by Thai at Heart

[thailandchilli]

Apparently the Prosecutor has seen the roti/pancake salesman' video interview where he categorically states the 2 in custody told him the murder weapon, or one of the weapons was a large wine bottle. This interview is featured today on another well known Facebook page. The plot thickens!!!

That's just about fuxked it for the RTP

[StealthEnergiser]

stop The Pork Pies truth only please

[CapFarmer]

BBC are getting properly stuck in too.. http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-29834046

Not really pretty soft really. All things considered.

Great showmanship on the DNA testing of the village headman's son. Especially since the DNA "will not affect the investigation" and is not in police possession. It DNA test is not part of the police "investigation". This is a test that the "headman" bought for his son, same as if you were to purchase a DNA paternity test at the hospital. The results will not be introduced as evidence, although police/legal reps may make statements about them. Neither the procedures used to test, the chain of custody, the actual results or anything else about this test will be released, other than the photos of the boy with a cotton swab in his mouth surrounded by senior police and Nom's daddy. No doubt compared to the sample that the father provided to the hospital, which was taken from the crime scene after having been stored for two days by the headman's brother, who was kind enough to hold the evidence in his uncontaminated "immigrant worker evidence locker" for two days until the forensics investigator was able to reach the crime scene.

Rhetorical question: Why would the chief of police attend such a farce?

The hospital will not release the results and they will never be seen by anyone other than the headman. Another act in this very dark comedy.

As has been noted often already, the investigation has been engineered to ensure that no one can be convicted. The crime scene was left open to "contamination" for two days while waiting for a forensics investigator to arrive. The prime suspects were photographed on the crime scene numerous times.

[Travelman868]

Clearly proves, that there is something seriously wrong with the DNA "evidence"!!

What the prosecutor want I know DNA is good I pull hair out myself. I not touch ding dong to get sperm, as we used all the rubber

gloves getting the confession.

[stephen terry]

Meanwhile, lawyer Aung Myo Than, who represents the two Myanmar suspects in the case, commented that "Thai police should make sure they have concrete evidence before the suspects are charged in court, as they may face the death penalty. The police submitted the DNA test as the only evidence and not a single witness was present. That's why Koh Samui prosecutors returned the case to the Thai police to find further evidence. Now they want to conduct a DNA test again. We have to consult the two defendants whether they want to go ahead with the second DNA test."

It would depend on whether the DNA submission was an exact match or a partial match, or just an opinion. If it wasn't a perfect match, the B2 should be advised to not retake the test (for obvious reasons). And, as the case is now complete, the B2 cannot be forced to submit another DNA sample. Legally, any partial match would not be evidence that could pass beyond reasonable doubt as being reliable.

Please define partial match in this context. What does it mean?

Human? Asian? 1:?????

I'm not an expert, but have constructed the following from reliable sources. Make of it what you will.

Results may be inconclusive for several reasons. For example, contaminated samples often yield inconclusive results. So do very small or degraded samples, which may not have enough DNA to produce a full profile. However, if the suspect's DNA profile matches the profile of DNA taken from the crime scene, then the results are considered an inclusion or non-exclusion. In other words, the suspect is included (cannot be excluded) as a possible source of the DNA found in the sample. If the testing is on a par with US/UK forensic standards an 'exact' match will be regarded as reliable evidence, but the UKP will not indict a suspect on DNA evidence alone, because it's not a perfect science in that there are lab error rates, random possibilities of similar profiles, etc. etc.

I would hope the defence lawyers take council from Thailand's leading forensic pathologist as to whether the RTP's matching report is reliable evidence before committing the B2 to another test.

[casindonet]

Don't they use lie detectors in this country? I know it's not used in court but in this case surely the combined results of tests on the interrogators, RTP, suspects and maybe a few others would indicate where the BS lays.

Why do they need a lie detector when they already have lots of over priced GT-2000. Just change the cards & it can be anuthing you want.

[bongoz]

Don't they use lie detectors in this country? I know it's not used in court but in this case surely the combined results of tests on the interrogators, RTP, suspects and maybe a few others would indicate where the BS lays.

Why do they need a lie detector when they already have lots of over priced GT-2000. Just change the cards & it can be anuthing you want.

And I'm sure they could even solve this case more competently than the RTP...

[Number 3]

Don't they use lie detectors in this country? I know it's not used in court but in this case surely the combined results of tests on the interrogators, RTP, suspects and maybe a few others would indicate where the BS lays.

Why do they need a lie detector when they already have lots of over priced GT-2000. Just change the cards & it can be anuthing you want.

And I'm sure they could even solve this case more competently than the RTP...

The police have been competent. They managed to manipulate everything to the conclusion they needed.

Get on with the job of contributing to you care so we can get these young blokes to safety.

The donations right now are appalling. The link looks to have been shared something like 1500 times with about 80 folks donating. I never saw this coming. It's quite appalling given the young lives on the line

Everyone needs to take a good look at themselves and back up their own words and ethics.

[Dogmatix]

Apparently the Prosecutor has seen the roti/pancake salesman' video interview where he categorically states the 2 in custody told him the murder weapon, or one of the weapons was a large wine bottle. This interview is featured today on another well known Facebook page. The plot thickens!!!

Well that's really adding to the open and shut nature of this case. This roti salesman better make a run for it quick, because if this was cluedo, that doesn't fit the story.

Too many people trying to get square lies into to a round hole.

The only way the pancake seller could have known about the bottle of wine that was not mentioned by the suspects is that he was also involved in the murders. He has dug himself a deep hole and is going down.

[Dogmatix]

Meanwhile, lawyer Aung Myo Than, who represents the two Myanmar suspects in the case, commented that "Thai police should make sure they have concrete evidence before the suspects are charged in court, as they may face the death penalty. The police submitted the DNA test as the only evidence and not a single witness was present. That's why Koh Samui prosecutors returned the case to the Thai police to find further evidence. Now they want to conduct a DNA test again. We have to consult the two defendants whether they want to go ahead with the second DNA test."

It would depend on whether the DNA submission was an exact match or a partial match, or just an opinion. If it wasn't a perfect match, the B2 should be advised to not retake the test (for obvious reasons). And, as the case is now complete, the B2 cannot be forced to submit another DNA sample. Legally, any partial match would not be evidence that could pass beyond reasonable doubt as being reliable.

Please define partial match in this context. What does it mean?

Human? Asian? 1:?????

I'm not an expert, but have constructed the following from reliable sources. Make of it what you will.

Results may be inconclusive for several reasons. For example, contaminated samples often yield inconclusive results. So do very small or degraded samples, which may not have enough DNA to produce a full profile. However, if the suspect's DNA profile matches the profile of DNA taken from the crime scene, then the results are considered an inclusion or non-exclusion. In other words, the suspect is included (cannot be excluded) as a possible source of the DNA found in the sample. If the testing is on a par with US/UK forensic standards an 'exact' match will be regarded as reliable evidence, but the UKP will not indict a suspect on DNA evidence alone, because it's not a perfect science in that there are lab error rates, random possibilities of similar profiles, etc. etc.

I would hope the defence lawyers take council from Thailand's leading forensic pathologist as to whether the RTP's matching report is reliable evidence before committing the B2 to another test.

The suspects' lawyers should certainly not agree to a second test done by Thai authorities.

[Bleacher Bum East]

I think that one of the things that Hannah and David's family via the UK team, people in the media, on social media and all of the Thai people can legitimately do is to say “here is what we would expect a fair and thorough investigation to include” so we are sure the killers are caught and unable to do this again.

In my opinion, Touch DNA is the single most important item that should have been investigated which the public has been given no information about to date (I'm not saying they should have been given this information, just that they haven't been).

All the talk has been of DNA from semen on/in Hannah’s body and saliva on a cigarette butt. But it is highly likely, in fact almost certain, that there is Touch DNA on Hannah’s clothing and possibly David’s, as well as on the handle of the hoe, on the cell phone, etc., and that there was Touch DNA on Hannah’s body and possibly David’s as well.

If Touch DNA gathering and testing hasn’t been done already, it still could be (on the clothes and murder weapon and phone at least). And if the Thai forensics lab doesn’t have the latest technology and capability, I think there are a few guys in town right now that do.

For all we know, a through and professional Touch DNA investigation has already been conducted. But if it hasn’t been, any objective observer would say it should be. And the prosecutor should request it as well.

Edited November 1, 2014 by Bleacher Bum East

[rametindallas]

This is what, the second time the prosecutor has sent the brief back to police asking for more information. At least one person in the chain of this investigation understands how important this trial is going to be.

This is what, the second time the prosecutor has sent the brief back to police asking for more information.

Please read/re-read the last sentence of the OP and your question will be answered.

[rametindallas]

Just when will someone have what it takes to close this 3 ring circus ?

The problem is that from the outset the powers that be went in into overdrive to celebrate as soon as the questionable arrests were made and it will be hard for all involved to let this go due to massive loss of face.

The PM said he would reward the investigators, words like ' international standard ', ' transparent ' etc, were used, the BIB's ' perfect ' case file keeps getting knocked back and so much more. In recent days the PM has claimed the British observers said the investigation was just how they would have handled it and the National Police Chief has threatened prosecution of those who continue to criticise.

Meanwhile the suspects are still in custody and although the BIB and govt have found them guilty in public they still haven't been asked to plead in court and god knows when that will be if the prosecutors aren't satisfied enough to indict so is it to be remand after remand until they are ?

So many important people have stuck their neck's out over this that it's hard to imagine anyone having the balls to mark the file ' No Proceedings ' and it has to raise concerns that the two suspects have to be found guilty.

Maybe they will replace the prosecutors with some who are more 'cooperative'.

[Lozza]

If the prosecutor takes an honest stance in this debacle and sets a precedence he will be a hero here. The thai's will revere him.

It only takes a few, cannot's, from him to set the pace.

[englishoak]

Apparently the Prosecutor has seen the roti/pancake salesman' video interview where he categorically states the 2 in custody told him the murder weapon, or one of the weapons was a large wine bottle. This interview is featured today on another well known Facebook page. The plot thickens!!!

That was the point people on social media really started getting things moving and really shouting about scapegoats and made up BS. It stepped up a gear at that point.

The wine bottle inclusion by bananaman which has never even existed as part of the case in any shape or form or even similarity makes it quite clear bananaman was at the very least an unreliable translator and not credible.

There is so much in this case that stinks its hardly surprising some resurface later with outrage accordingly.

Plenty more things will resurface, such as another family member that isnt Nomsod who has not been accounted for at all.

This isnt over by a long way, the RTP may consider it case closed but it will be shown very soon this case hasnt even been properly opened yet

[Lozza]

Is the motorbike they were CCTV'D on which was supposed to be david's bike still on the agenda.

The prosecutor sent the brief back for the 4th time wanting evidence it WAS david's phone the boys were found with.

They have to get that from david's family. I'd say they'd have to go through the NSYard team. This is the stumbling block.

[StealthEnergiser]

surely some one can identify no 9 ?

[anon7867763]

Don't they use lie detectors in this country? I know it's not used in court but in this case surely the combined results of tests on the interrogators, RTP, suspects and maybe a few others would indicate where the BS lays.

Why do they need a lie detector when they already have lots of over priced GT-2000. Just change the cards & it can be anuthing you want.

And I'm sure they could even solve this case more competently than the RTP...

The police have been competent. They managed to manipulate everything to the conclusion they needed.

Get on with the job of contributing to you care so we can get these young blokes to safety.

The donations right now are appalling. The link looks to have been shared something like 1500 times with about 80 folks donating. I never saw this coming. It's quite appalling given the young lives on the line

Everyone needs to take a good look at themselves and back up their own words and ethics.

Well said number 3 the overwhelming majority are all mouth and no action.Listen up everyone if you really care about this DO SOME THING and stop just spouting off

[Orac]

I think that one of the things that Hannah and David's family via the UK team, people in the media, on social media and all of the Thai people can legitimately do is to say “here is what we would expect a fair and thorough investigation to include” so we are sure the killers are caught and unable to do this again.

In my opinion, Touch DNA is the single most important item that should have been investigated which the public has been given no information about to date (I'm not saying they should have been given this information, just that they haven't been).

All the talk has been of DNA from semen on/in Hannah’s body and saliva on a cigarette butt. But it is highly likely, in fact almost certain, that there is Touch DNA on Hannah’s clothing and possibly David’s, as well as on the handle of the hoe, on the cell phone, etc., and that there was Touch DNA on Hannah’s body and possibly David’s as well.

If Touch DNA gathering and testing hasn’t been done already, it still could be (on the clothes and murder weapon and phone at least). And if the Thai forensics lab doesn’t have the latest technology and capability, I think there are a few guys in town right now that do.

For all we know, a through and professional Touch DNA investigation has already been conducted. But if it hasn’t been, any objective observer would say it should be. And the prosecutor should request it as well.

Actually the police pathologist referred to a third DNA sample taken from Hannah' body during his interview with Sorayuth on Channel 3 which didn't match David. I assume, since the police do not have a third person to link this to, it has been conveniently ignored.

[Lozza]

Just release the Burmese and make a token attempt to reinvestigate, after a few weeks put the file in UNSOLVED FERRANG MURDERS ( RTP WILL NEED TO GET A BIGGER FILLING CABINET) and carry on as normal

This is what will transpire, the real culprits will not be sought.

In January the British coroner will report, RTP will go into full defence mode

Within 12 months I predict a similar event will happen.....murder or rape of a ferrang.

Serial rapists and murders are on the loose....

You are so right, another non suspect has attempted raped before, this is in mainstream media reports, one victim giving an account of her ordeal on video, she had to jump out a window in fear. Looks hi so thai very nice lady.

I think we all know who the duet are. Dead giveaway looking.

As the case is closed they won't be suspects and that is a terrible shame. This duet has ruined so many lives, thailand looking to lose billions, turned people's lives into a lifetime of grief they will never recover from.

I look at the beautiful burmese parents and could cry for them. Parents here would know that feeling too well.

As for pancake man and his 5 min debut, he will keep talking, cheque book journalism being the operative word. $US v THB.