Doubt it....he is just symptomatic of the amateur nature of the whole investigation by the RTP regarding these two Burmese guys.

Doubt it....he is just symptomatic of the amateur nature of the whole investigation by the RTP regarding these two Burmese guys.

Who knows? allot of money been offered to false witnesses on the island, in this true life Thai soap opera nothing surprises me any longer.

Doubt it....he is just symptomatic of the amateur nature of the whole investigation by the RTP regarding these two Burmese guys.

Who knows? allot of money been offered to false witnesses on the island, in this true life Thai soap opera nothing surprises me any longer.

Its not a Thai soap opera....its an investigation into two brutal murders.

Again very sadly it seems to be to so many about Thais or Thailand when it should be about finding and convicting murderers.

Doubt it....he is just symptomatic of the amateur nature of the whole investigation by the RTP regarding these two Burmese guys.

Who knows? allot of money been offered to false witnesses on the island, in this true life Thai soap opera nothing surprises me any longer.

Its not a Thai soap opera....its an investigation into two brutal murders.

Again very sadly it seems to be to so many about Thais or Thailand when it should be about finding and convicting murderers.

The way the investigation is run it looks very much like a soap opera.

How many times is this now that the prosecutors have thrown the brief back at the police and told them to get evidence? It is almost a weekly occurrence, save time and money and put some real police in there to investigate and compile a brief of evidence. Every time the brief is thrown back at them they look like bigger idiots and this was already beyond the realm of possibility.

Edited October 31, 201411 yr by chooka

Doubt it....he is just symptomatic of the amateur nature of the whole investigation by the RTP regarding these two Burmese guys.

Who knows? allot of money been offered to false witnesses on the island, in this true life Thai soap opera nothing surprises me any longer.

Its not a Thai soap opera....its an investigation into two brutal murders.

Again very sadly it seems to be to so many about Thais or Thailand when it should be about finding and convicting murderers.

The way the investigation is run it looks very much like a soap opera.

A soap opera does a smidge of creativity and art but still laughable. Let's not be to hard on soaps.

How many times is this now that the prosecutors have thrown the brief back at the police and told them to get evidence? It is almost a weekly occurrence, save time and money and put some real police in there to investigate and compile a brief of evidence. Every time the brief is thrown back at them they look like bigger idiots and this was already beyond the realm of possibility.

The real problem appears to be the lack of proper evidence gathering in the period following the crime.

You would expect dozens of interviews with those on the island...explaining where they were and anything they thought relevant....forensic examination of the crime scene....and a picture built up of what happened that night.

Not...we were too drunk to remember murdering and raping sorry.

Oh and with a staged wai before a score or more of intimidating police officers to give gravitas to the situation.

A farce indeed.

Edited October 31, 201411 yr by smokie36

I feel so sorry for the families. Not only have they lost their children - every parent's bad dream - they have had their children's deaths turned into a comic cuts farce by the bungling incompetence and political venality of the Thai police and the Thai social system. I can't even begin to imagine how angry I would feel at DNA submission turned into a photo op for the local media, as if my child's murder was some episode in a pathetic local soap. I can't begin to express how sickened I would feel that the extent of the investigation seemed to be to get a couple of hapless migrant workers and bash them into a confession. I can't imagine what it would like to have local police post pictures of my child's corpse on social media for the entertainment of the ghoulish. The list goes on, and on, and on.

Welcome to Thailand. As my old Thai friend Ott said, 'with Thais you see the face, not the heart' (hen naa, teh mai hen jai). Well, in this case the mask has slipped, and the whole world has seen the heart. And it's not a pretty sight.

An important point here seems to be that the prosecutor is only asking for more information about the pancake man's allegedly beating of the suspects in between translation sessions and nutella pancake breaks. Nothing about the alleged torture by police or the alleged offer to incinerate and/or dismember the suspects, although the NCHR has summoned them to enquire about that and perhaps prosecutors have already asked about it but just want further information about the pancake seller's alleged role.

The pancake man has been a bit out of order giving interviews to media that conflicted with the (now retracted) confessions obtained by police, e.g. his claim that a large wine bottle was used as a murder weapon. The police probably regard him as a some one who has gone passed his sell by date. Since he is almost certainly a stateless Rohingya illegal immigrant running an illegal pancake business, I have a nasty feeling that he might soon be facing deportation after a rapid depletion of his life savings. Either that or he could end up as a new 'goat'. Judging by his bragadoccio performance on Youtube, he doesn't seem to have been acted very sensibly in what he should have realised was a precarious situation that called for a low profile and maybe a long holiday back home till things cooled down.

Edited October 31, 201411 yr by Dogmatix

In civilised courts the case has to be proven "Beyond all Reasonable Doubt" This whole case would be tossed out of court in the 1st 5 minutes as it is so riddled with doubt. The reason is the way the whole thing has been handled by inexperienced, corrupt and incompetent investigators. These police wouldn't wouldn't even be trusted with monitoring a school crossing in most other countries.

Very glad to hear that, but am still surprised because usually police/prosecutor/judges in Thailand seem to be, how shall I put it, not stepping on each others turf.

No this is the third time rejected, so the next time they submit the report it will be the 4th attempt to convince the prosecutors that this was the 'perfect investigation' and that even without confessions etc.... they have a rock solid case.

My backside.

They clearly have nothing and this whole investigation has been executed in the most half-cocked manner possible.

The Brit police must be pissing themselves laughing each night they get together over dinner.

Very glad to hear that, but am still surprised because usually police/prosecutor/judges in Thailand seem to be, how shall I put it, not stepping on each others turf.

No this is the third time rejected, so the next time they submit the report it will be the 4th attempt to convince the prosecutors that this was the 'perfect investigation' and that even without confessions etc.... they have a rock solid case.

My backside.

They clearly have nothing and this whole investigation has been executed in the most half-cocked manner possible.

The Brit police must be pissing themselves laughing each night they get together over dinner.

Two young peope were brutally murdered, I doubt that they're pissing themselves.

But I'm starting to gain some respect for the Thai prosecution lawyers in this case. They must be under enormous pressure to take this case and run with it, and right now, it looks like they won't be party to the ongoing farce.

Good for them.

There doesn't appear to be a solid case against the rwo Burmese suspects. No way would they keep returning the file otherwise. This case has me torn. My hunch is that the two Burmese lads are innocent, but if their sperm is in/on Hannah then it has to raise doubts. Massive doubts. If it is sperm from the accussed, we haven't heard them saying the RTP extracted it from them have we?

I think what people need to know is the type of DNA found. Was it 'touch DNA' or sperm/skin inside Hannah's fingernails etc.Sharing a cigarrette doesn't prove much, unless the suspects denied ever sitting with her on the beach. I would smell a rat if that was the case.

One thing I will say is this...the person or persons that raped Hannah was also the killer (or one of the killers). Some (unbelievably) seem to be in denail about that. Sure, it's possible, but pretty damn unlikely.

Thank you SHERLOCK, I don't know what we would do without you.

In civilised courts the case has to be proven "Beyond all Reasonable Doubt" This whole case would be tossed out of court in the 1st 5 minutes as it is so riddled with doubt. The reason is the way the whole thing has been handled by inexperienced, corrupt and incompetent investigators. These police wouldn't wouldn't even be trusted with monitoring a school crossing in most other countries.

In civilised courts, glad you put that bit in chooka,

Very glad to hear that, but am still surprised because usually police/prosecutor/judges in Thailand seem to be, how shall I put it, not stepping on each others turf.

No this is the third time rejected, so the next time they submit the report it will be the 4th attempt to convince the prosecutors that this was the 'perfect investigation' and that even without confessions etc.... they have a rock solid case.

My backside.

They clearly have nothing and this whole investigation has been executed in the most half-cocked manner possible.

The Brit police must be pissing themselves laughing each night they get together over dinner.

Two young peope were brutally murdered, I doubt that they're pissing themselves.

But I'm starting to gain some respect for the Thai prosecution lawyers in this case. They must be under enormous pressure to take this case and run with it, and right now, it looks like they won't be party to the ongoing farce.

Good for them.

Well Retsdon That is only your opinion.,

I know fully that two kids suffered immensely, and their ending is no laughing matter, but life goes on, and I was not suggesting that the UK police are laughing at the details of the crime, that is just the way YOU choose to see it. You telling me that you have not laughed at this comedy farce that is the Thai police investigation?

I have as much compassion as the next man for the victims and their friends and families. But that doesn't mean that I can't find the fact that the Thai police operate like a bunch of half wits, not to mention so transparently corrupt that it can be seen across the entire globe, as has been proven with social media. To the point it has become a hilarity. It is almost impossible NOT TO LAUGH at these clowns.

As for your new found respect for the public prosecutors. Had the world not been watching and a contingent of British police investigators breathing down their necks. It would certainly have been 'business as usual' with the two Burmese already arraigned and staring at an almost certain 'guilty' verdict and possible execution.

So your so called 'respect' for their (all of a sudden) new found 'integrity' in my opinion is severely misplaced.

You seem to forget this is Thailand. under all other circumstances this case would ha=ve been a done and dusted deal. The next case these prosecutors handle that is a farce (so long as the world isn't watching) they will pick up, process and doom the accused in a heartbeat.

Don't give respect to rattlesnakes, they may not bite in this case, but they are still rattlesnakes.

Just when will someone have what it takes to close this 3 ring circus ?

The problem is that from the outset the powers that be went in into overdrive to celebrate as soon as the questionable arrests were made and it will be hard for all involved to let this go due to massive loss of face.

The PM said he would reward the investigators, words like ' international standard ', ' transparent ' etc, were used, the BIB's ' perfect ' case file keeps getting knocked back and so much more. In recent days the PM has claimed the British observers said the investigation was just how they would have handled it and the National Police Chief has threatened prosecution of those who continue to criticise.

Meanwhile the suspects are still in custody and although the BIB and govt have found them guilty in public they still haven't been asked to plead in court and god knows when that will be if the prosecutors aren't satisfied enough to indict so is it to be remand after remand until they are ?

So many important people have stuck their neck's out over this that it's hard to imagine anyone having the balls to mark the file ' No Proceedings ' and it has to raise concerns that the two suspects have to be found guilty.

Just when will someone have what it takes to close this 3 ring circus ?

The problem is that from the outset the powers that be went in into overdrive to celebrate as soon as the questionable arrests were made and it will be hard for all involved to let this go due to massive loss of face.

The PM said he would reward the investigators, words like ' international standard ', ' transparent ' etc, were used, the BIB's ' perfect ' case file keeps getting knocked back and so much more. In recent days the PM has claimed the British observers said the investigation was just how they would have handled it and the National Police Chief has threatened prosecution of those who continue to criticise.

Meanwhile the suspects are still in custody and although the BIB and govt have found them guilty in public they still haven't been asked to plead in court and god knows when that will be if the prosecutors aren't satisfied enough to indict so is it to be remand after remand until they are ?

So many important people have stuck their neck's out over this that it's hard to imagine anyone having the balls to mark the file ' No Proceedings ' and it has to raise concerns that the two suspects have to be found guilty.

Does anyone really think that this investigation would be carried out with endeavour, hard work and attention to detail?

Just when will someone have what it takes to close this 3 ring circus ?

The problem is that from the outset the powers that be went in into overdrive to celebrate as soon as the questionable arrests were made and it will be hard for all involved to let this go due to massive loss of face.

The PM said he would reward the investigators, words like ' international standard ', ' transparent ' etc, were used, the BIB's ' perfect ' case file keeps getting knocked back and so much more. In recent days the PM has claimed the British observers said the investigation was just how they would have handled it and the National Police Chief has threatened prosecution of those who continue to criticise.

Meanwhile the suspects are still in custody and although the BIB and govt have found them guilty in public they still haven't been asked to plead in court and god knows when that will be if the prosecutors aren't satisfied enough to indict so is it to be remand after remand until they are ?

So many important people have stuck their neck's out over this that it's hard to imagine anyone having the balls to mark the file ' No Proceedings ' and it has to raise concerns that the two suspects have to be found guilty.

Does anyone really think that this investigation would be carried out with endeavour, hard work and attention to detail?

If it was it would go down in Thai legal history as the first time ever.

An important point here seems to be that the prosecutor is only asking for more information about the pancake man's allegedly beating of the suspects in between translation sessions and nutella pancake breaks. Nothing about the alleged torture by police or the alleged offer to incinerate and/or dismember the suspects, although the NCHR has summoned them to enquire about that and perhaps prosecutors have already asked about it but just want further information about the pancake seller's alleged role.

The pancake man has been a bit out of order giving interviews to media that conflicted with the (now retracted) confessions obtained by police, e.g. his claim that a large wine bottle was used as a murder weapon. The police probably regard him as a some one who has gone passed his sell by date. Since he is almost certainly a stateless Rohingya illegal immigrant running an illegal pancake business, I have a nasty feeling that he might soon be facing deportation after a rapid depletion of his life savings. Either that or he could end up as a new 'goat'. Judging by his bragadoccio performance on Youtube, he doesn't seem to have been acted very sensibly in what he should have realised was a precarious situation that called for a low profile and maybe a long holiday back home till things cooled down.

.

Large wine bottle... Condom with no DNA inside but has Hannah's DNA on the outside.....

Edited November 1, 201411 yr by DarioS

Will Pol Gen Somyot now take tough legal action against the prosecutor for distorting the case against the Burmese?

Be careful, he'd ask our dear PM aka former General to shut down the entire internet in Thailand

I heard from an deep background source that the pancake man has been waffling on what was actually said....

oh i get it, perhaps this is a back door for the police to get out of this mess, its the interpreters fault for lying to the police

I heard from an deep background source that the pancake man has been waffling on what was actually said....

If you can find that in a news source, that would be very handy.

no its the 3rd time, it makes that clear in the original post

This is what, the second time the prosecutor has sent the brief back to police asking for more information. At least one person in the chain of this investigation understands how important this trial is going to be.

How many times did the prosecutor already ask for more evidence? Looks pretty much someone tries to avoid getting his fingers burned and also- the case is not as waterproof as the cops always claim...

I thought the BIB had a "perfect" case. That's what they said.

I thought the BIB had a "perfect" case. That's what they said.

I think they lost their book on UK Police Investigation 101

DNA, even if the police insist this is above board, is not enough. If that is the only solid evidence they have, this will not fly.

On the confessions. Because they said they 'did it', that is also not enough. The accused need to reveal information that is unbeknownst to anyone else but themselves. For example, the police said they found a phone of a victim near they house. Now if the accused led them to this phone, that would be more solid evidence. But police finding it....well. I give kudos to the prosecution keeping right on top of this one. It seems they are the only ones who know how an investigation should be run.

Better than a lakhon lang kao.

Could it be any worse?

Yes, it could be worse. What if these guys did do it and they get off .....

Better than a lakhon lang kao.

Could it be any worse?

Yes, it could be worse. What if these guys did do it and they get off .....

Looks more like someone (sometwo) else did it and is getting off with it. Have mercy on the two Burmese boys until proven guilty. I mean proven guilty without any doubt.

I would think that the last person you would want as a translator for Rakhine from Arakan State would be a Rohingya and vice-versa. Too much is at stake for these young men. A court certified interpreter should have been used from the outset.