UK Domicile - Getting a QC's Opinion?

[AyG]

In the other newspaper last weekend I read that one could seek an opinion from a Queens Counsel in the UK on the legal soundness of one's domicile of choice in Thailand and that HMRC will respect such an opinion.

Has anyone ever heard of this before? Is it true? Searching the Internet for supporting evidence of this turned up nothing.

It would certainly set my mind to rest if I could determine my domicile before I die, and the usual route (settling £325,000 or more into a trust) isn't really suitable for me.

[KittenKong]

Seems unlikely and if it were true I would expect many people to be doing it. The decision is up to HMRC and they don't have to listen to anyone's opinion.

[wordchild]

I had a specialist (UK) tax lawyer (not a QC) review my domicile situation and also give some advice. They wrote me a fairly detailed opinion but never suggested this would give me complete certainty as to my situation, or carry any particular weight with HMRC. All they suggested was to keep the opinion with my will as I, or my heirs, might find it useful in the event of a future challenge by HMRC.

Obviously any opinion is based on the facts as presented, and as they were at that moment, and things can change.

Edited November 2, 2014 by wordchild

[wordchild]

It suits HMRC to play smoke and mirrors and keep things a little vague with this issue. I suspect there are many long term expats who just assume they are UK domiciled when, in fact, very possibly, they are not.

Its also fairly easy for an expat to structure ones assets in such a way so as to make IHT a none issue, eg setting up a BVI company to hold your assets.

But even if you don't want to go down this route there are some very simple things that can be done to make it difficult for HMRC to get involved in your estates affairs after your death, (and make it likely they wont even bother to try); eg try to ensure that, on your death, you have no UK assets that would require UK probate in order to be passed to your heirs. Not needing a UK will or any UK based executors (or advisors) will considerably reduce any leverage HMRC might have incl over any of you non UK based assets.

Edited November 2, 2014 by wordchild

[jor]

eg try to ensure that, on your death, you have no UK assets that would require UK probate in order to be passed to your heirs. Not needing a UK will or any UK based executors (or advisors) will considerably reduce any leverage HMRC might have incl over any of you non UK based assets.

Would assets deposited in the Channel Islands or IOM require a UK probate?

[AyG]

eg try to ensure that, on your death, you have no UK assets that would require UK probate in order to be passed to your heirs. Not needing a UK will or any UK based executors (or advisors) will considerably reduce any leverage HMRC might have incl over any of you non UK based assets.

Would assets deposited in the Channel Islands or IOM require a UK probate?

No. You'd need to get separate probates for each of the channel islands where you have assets, and Isle of Man probate.

[wordchild]

<script type='text/javascript'>window.mod_pagespeed_start = Number(new Date());</script>

eg try to ensure that, on your death, you have no UK assets that would require UK probate in order to be passed to your heirs. Not needing a UK will or any UK based executors (or advisors) will considerably reduce any leverage HMRC might have incl over any of you non UK based assets.

Would assets deposited in the Channel Islands or IOM require a UK probate?

I am more familiar with the situation in jersey, not really sure about the others. As far as Jersey is concerned my understanding is that it depends on whether the deceased was domiciled in the UK and had a UK will; lf they had a UK will (and UK assets) then i believe the Jersey courts would need to see that UK probate has been granted first before they will grant. If the indevidual had not been domiciled in the UK and had no UK will (or assets) then my understanding is that a letter from a lawyer confirming there was no need to obtain probate in the UK is sufficient.

Edited November 3, 2014 by wordchild

[jor]

<script type='text/javascript'>window.mod_pagespeed_start = Number(new Date());</script>

eg try to ensure that, on your death, you have no UK assets that would require UK probate in order to be passed to your heirs. Not needing a UK will or any UK based executors (or advisors) will considerably reduce any leverage HMRC might have incl over any of you non UK based assets.

Would assets deposited in the Channel Islands or IOM require a UK probate?

I am more familiar with the situation in jersey, not really sure about the others. As far as Jersey is concerned my understanding is that it depends on whether the deceased was domiciled in the UK and had a UK will; lf they had a UK will (and UK assets) then i believe the Jersey courts would need to see that UK probate has been granted first before they will grant. If the indevidual had not been domiciled in the UK and had no UK will (or assets) then my understanding is that a letter from a lawyer confirming there was no need to obtain probate in the UK is sufficient.

Thanks for this.

I have tried to simplify my affairs as far as possible but HMRC, as the OP has stated, make it deliberately difficult.

My main assets are in Channel Islands and IOM with small current accounts only in UK and LOS. I have a UK will with a UK based executor.

I had hoped that it would make things as easy as possible for my executor and keep everything out of the hands of HMRC.

Thanks for the replies.

Jor

[wordchild]

As a general rule, I would say Singapore is a better bet than the Channel Islands or even Switzerland or Luxembourg: less likely to be responsive to UK or EU pressure over these sorts of issues!

Edited November 4, 2014 by wordchild

[jor]

As a general rule, I would say Singapore is a better bet than the Channel Islands or even Switzerland or Luxembourg: less likely to be responsive to UK or EU pressure over these sorts of issues!

Good point. I'll look into that.

[wordchild]

If you have limited assets there, also worth reconsidering whether you should have a UK will at all. eg a thai will can be drafted so as to cover Singapore assets or, maybe better, get a Singapore will.

Edited November 5, 2014 by wordchild

[Jay Sata]

Domicile is not as complicated as some suggest. In general terms if you enter the UK for less than 90 days a year and have a home or other residence elsewhere you can move your domicile quite easily.

Their are some well publicised cases of people such as Lord Rothermere and Lord Ashcroft

It is possible to be resident in the UK but still non domiciled there.

Some former tax havens such as the Channel Islands etc are now obliged to inform the UK tax authorities of income derived from deposits.

In general terms if you want to keep your income offshore and out of the way of UK tax Singapore is a better bet.

For tax planning and financial advice I would recommend spending money on a good accountant and solicitor

Edited November 8, 2014 by Jay Sata

[AyG]

Domicile is not as complicated as some suggest. In general terms if you enter the UK for less than 90 days a year and have a home or other residence elsewhere you can move your domicile quite easily.

This is utterly, utterly wrong.