Pressure From Girlfriend's Mother To Buy Gold Jewellery

[sbk]

I have been in a happy relationship with a 22-year-old Lao lass, who is a Thai resident, for the past two months. Problem is her mother has been making requests for Baht 40,000 worth of gold on her daughter's behalf, "According to our local culture". Although the girlfriend lives on her own, she seems more afraid of the mother (there's no father) than losing me if I refuse. She has never been involved in the nightlife industry. The mother spends time on both sides of the border.

I have offered a moderate gift of gold in keeping with my means and our relationship but it seems they want all or nothing, even though the price of gold is sky-high. In several Thai relationships I have never encountered such heavy financial pressure within such a short time-frame.

What is the best way of dealing with the mother, who is basically a dim-witted peasant, and convincing her daughter there is more to our current happiness than fretting over gold chains?

If you are not living with her and not getting engaged then by Thai culture there is no gold paid. Lao, on the other hand, may be completely different, as someone has already pointed out.

So, I guess the main thing you have to ask yourself is, do you love her enough to put up with her mother too?

[t.s]

she is 22, how old are you?

also, if ther girl was a virgin, or percieved to be by the "dim-witted peasant" and the rest of her family before you entered into your two months of bliss the family could simply want compensation for what they may see as the goods you spoiled.

not really enough information here to make a judgement on the situation.

my gut says the mother can take a walk though, it really is the only win-win proposition here -- either they accept that they don't get their pound of flesh, or they walk away in anger, and you have saved alot of cash both now and in the future.

[Donz]

Also on another note, alot of thai girls and parents think foreigner is only in relationship for sex, as many come as just sex tourists she might think your the same, maybe she just wants to see if you are even really interested in her future or just looking for a little fling.

I guess it swings both ways come to think of it, maybe thats why so many farangs get ripped off because they think we only want sex so they try to take all the money they can, also on the other side many foreigners to promise the world to Thai girls and then break there heart and just used them as a sex toy for alittle while.

I just wouldnt want to be in your shoes, but if you havent got enough money then dont do it. Simple as that

[Soju]

I can understand that she is possibly concerned for her daughters future and your sincerity towards her. It is also quite possibly a scam.

How much do you care for this woman? If its a lot then perhaps you should sit down and parle with her Mum. If she is just 'a fling' then dig your heels in and hope for the best.

That amount of money is pretty steep and if you pay that up now, by the time you end up marrying her the expectations for sin sot will be astronomical.

Look at it this way. They want 40k. If you can easily afford it and then pay it, they will believe you are rich and demand a high sin sot. Now if you are rich that won't be a problem either. But if you are not rich, you have misled them and will never be able to meet their expectations. This will make you look bad and cause further problems.

Don't forget, they all think we are loaded because we are falang. It is time you made them understand. My wifes mother kept telling me "So and So's daughter got a million baht sin sot from a falang". I asked her how may mothers went around bragging that 'my daughter got nothing' and she saw my point.

Suggestion. Don't pay anything at all for the time being. Never fear your relationship being tested.

Just curious. Do they even have the sinsot tradition in Laos? If so, what is the going rate in Laos for a Laotian man to pay?

[tourleadersi]

I can understand that she is possibly concerned for her daughters future and your sincerity towards her. It is also quite possibly a scam.

How much do you care for this woman? If its a lot then perhaps you should sit down and parle with her Mum. If she is just 'a fling' then dig your heels in and hope for the best.

That amount of money is pretty steep and if you pay that up now, by the time you end up marrying her the expectations for sin sot will be astronomical.

Look at it this way. They want 40k. If you can easily afford it and then pay it, they will believe you are rich and demand a high sin sot. Now if you are rich that won't be a problem either. But if you are not rich, you have misled them and will never be able to meet their expectations. This will make you look bad and cause further problems.

Don't forget, they all think we are loaded because we are falang. It is time you made them understand. My wifes mother kept telling me "So and So's daughter got a million baht sin sot from a falang". I asked her how may mothers went around bragging that 'my daughter got nothing' and she saw my point.

Suggestion. Don't pay anything at all for the time being. Never fear your relationship being tested.

Just curious. Do they even have the sinsot tradition in Laos? If so, what is the going rate in Laos for a Laotian man to pay?

Yes they do, but I'm afraid I only have one experience of it so can't really comment. A Laoatian friends sister got married, she is Hi So and so was the groom. He paid 1 mil baht but got 100% back.

It is common in Cambodia, Thailand and Vietnam so I can't imagine Laos being any different....

[Charma]

I can understand that she is possibly concerned for her daughters future and your sincerity towards her. It is also quite possibly a scam.

How much do you care for this woman? If its a lot then perhaps you should sit down and parle with her Mum. If she is just 'a fling' then dig your heels in and hope for the best.

That amount of money is pretty steep and if you pay that up now, by the time you end up marrying her the expectations for sin sot will be astronomical.

Look at it this way. They want 40k. If you can easily afford it and then pay it, they will believe you are rich and demand a high sin sot. Now if you are rich that won't be a problem either. But if you are not rich, you have misled them and will never be able to meet their expectations. This will make you look bad and cause further problems.

Don't forget, they all think we are loaded because we are falang. It is time you made them understand. My wifes mother kept telling me "So and So's daughter got a million baht sin sot from a falang". I asked her how may mothers went around bragging that 'my daughter got nothing' and she saw my point.

Suggestion. Don't pay anything at all for the time being. Never fear your relationship being tested.

Despite Lacoste's comments, I think you make a good point here. There is definately a different perspective of western wealth in Thailand. I think that this is given added impetus because farang tend to spend a lot of money here, either as tourists, when marrying a local or even just setting up home. This can easily give the impression of greater wealth than the reality. Of course many falang are also happy to perpetuate this at the beginning of a relationship as a show of their wealth and success (playing the rich white man). This will then result in the high expectations that tourleaderi mentioned.

Nothing form the OP? There seems to be a lot of these hit and run posters lately. Makes you wonder!

edit for typo

Edited July 31, 2006 by Charma

[Lacoste]

Well i guess he is upset for breaking his own golden rule, here is his piece of advice to others from a previous thread.

Quote

'Bottom line: don't let low-class people drag you down. Mix with others of your own, or higher, social class.'

[britmaveric]

Well i guess he is upset for breaking his own golden rule, here is his piece of advice to others from a previous thread.

Quote

'Bottom line: don't let low-class people drag you down. Mix with others of your own, or higher, social class.'

Elitist dribble!!!!

[mrbojangles]

Also, he has posted here, word for word http://thailand-uk.com/eve/forums/a/tpc/f/...02/m/2331052051 and not returned to comment either

Makes you wonder eh

Edit?? <deleted>, just realised you can't click that link without being a member

Anyway, take my word for it. He posted, word for word, exactly the same and didn't return either

Edited July 31, 2006 by mrbojangles

[Trevor]

Also, he has posted here, word for word http://thailand-uk.com/eve/forums/a/tpc/f/...02/m/2331052051 and not returned to comment either Makes you wonder eh

Edit?? <deleted>, just realised you can't click that link without being a member

Anyway, take my word for it. He posted, word for word, exactly the same and didn't return either

Hey, give me a chance man ... I only asked the question yesterday. I'm both impressed with and in gratitude to those many members who have shown an interest in my conundrum.

Someone asked my age. It's 51, which I told the lass from the start. She wasn't in the least bothered. Age differences of 29 years are commonplace in Asia, and Asian men are no different in seeking much younger partners. But it does mean there is a stronger onus on the man to provide financially, more so than with a guy in his twenties.

As for my advice to mix with people of a similar social class, well how was I to know the mother was going to make such unreasonable demands? The daughter always came across as sweet, polite and well-mannered. Apparently, what happened was that she ordered the daughter home (to Nong Khai) from Bangkok by telephone if I didn't deliver the goods promptly. It was only our strong desire to be together that persuaded my girlfriend to plead for more time. I'm back in the UK now, so have time to reflect on the situation. But the likely end-game may be to offer some kind of face-saving compromise of a reduced amount. The GF tells me what mum is asking -- 3.5 Baht of gold or B40,000 -- is regarded as the sin sot (dowry), and that there wouldn't be requests for any more. The GF is the youngest and last-unmarried child, and the only one supporting mum, latterly courtesy of yours truly at B3,000 per month, since she left her job to travel with me.

Is there anywhere on this site to post a photo and easily link to it from this board?

[Charma]

Guess we all jumped on you quickly there! It is strange that they refer top it as the sin sot. I am not sure how it works in Lao, but in Thailand you would give this at the wedding! How do you know that the girl will not disappear the minute you hand over the gold/cash.

Most posters here are advising you to be wary, and rightly so. But I think there may be issues here relating to their view of their youngest daughter. If you were the first guy in her life (and I guess you may not wish to disclose too much on this public forum), the family may well have genuine concerns that you are not just going to "love and leave" their daughter. In many small communities this will have an effect on the girls future and maybe the family are looking for some committment from you. If she has had "relationships" before, this should not be such an issue. It is different in the west and therefore you are in a clash of cultures! Only you are in a position to judge whether it is this concern for their daughter or greed that is behind the demand.

PS You can post a photo into your message. Look down the page and you will see a file import button. Browse to the pic, import it and then insert it into your post with the other button.

[britmaveric]

What does sinsot have to do with seeing or having her as a gf?? Have you discussed marriage?

Strange - won't start on sinsot because thats entirely diff subject matter.

[mrbojangles]

Hey, give me a chance man ... I only asked the question yesterday.

Sorry Tevor, we get so many Trolls, who post then leg it. My apologies

The GF tells me what mum is asking -- 3.5 Baht of gold or B40,000 -- is regarded as the sin sot (dowry), and that there wouldn't be requests for any more.

You didn't mention before that you are getting married. If this is the case and the 40,000 baht is indeed the Sin Sod, then i think that is a reasonable amount.

You will get people on here saying don't pay it etc. But Sin Sod is a cultural thing and common in many parts, although not everywhere. In the places it is practised, the locals pay, so if it is practised in her village, why shouldn't a farang pay. You might also consider "showing" money and then getting it back later. It will give her (and you) better "face" in the village

Edit// P.S. Not being too personal but does the gf have a child? If so, this usually changes the rules about Sin Sod

Edited July 31, 2006 by mrbojangles

[Lacoste]

As for my advice to mix with people of a similar social class, well how was I to know the mother was going to make such unreasonable demands?

Excuse me Trevor but this is your own great advice from a previous thread

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/index.php?s=...st&p=598324

[Kf6vci]

And if you paid, this would set a precedent and since the mother gets what she wanted, she will assume where is much more where the THB 40,000 came from! This sucks - and I would not want to be responsible for some family break up either. ** I posted a similar Thai family problem where a young sister with a good job was pressurised into guaranteeing a car loan. A deadline was sent and it ran out at midnight - the elder sister failed to make the payments and if the Police gets involved, there is likely to be friction and bad blood. (Aparently, the elder sister does not even understand that the car belongs to the bank and ultimately m u s t be returned since no payments were made for months). This lack of "understanding" is probably faked - I would love to get monies from someone out there, too

Please post again what you decided and how it went! ** In my own experience, greedy family members are syphoning off money from the girl and in one case, her brother in law was a AIA insurance agent and he sold her a useless policy while the girl was between jobs and truly needed the cash gift I had given her... Why not support your gf directly and claim poverty to her mother?

[rishi]

Buying gold definately is part of Thai culture ... However, this shouldn't be taken as anything else, but one of the traditional ways to secure one's family against poor times ... Although that mother in law is part of the family, well - traditionally she is just nosy: assuming, you're a man to be respected - it's all up to you how to secure your family, buy gold - or don't buy gold: state that you'd rather invest in some other "enterprise", which according to your judgement yields better means of family support ... the biggest mistake a foreigner can make ... is not to live up to the picture of a mighty man, who knows what he's dealing with ..

[udon]

2 months = 40,000 baht. :D

A fool and his money are soon parted.

12 Months = 40,000 baht, might be understandable as sinsot

Mama saw you coming a mile off. WAKE UP!

[Mossfinn]

Well, Trevor, you got jumped on pretty quick, people are still feeling a little jumpy after Ringo and his parting shots, I guess.

But you have to admit after previous comments it did sound dodgy, however only you can tell how you feel, no use others telling you to leave your girl, if thats not what you want right now, because of the mother putting her two cents worth in, or two bahts worth, whatever.

I think you know the answer and that is why you are away thinking about it, if it is right for the pair of you I guess you will still be together in the near future, this gold issue wont keep you together if that is all that there is keeping you together right now.

Tradition, security, well maybe, tradtition would normally come with sin sot and at the wedding but security could well be the over riding issue as she is the youngest, but you are covering this with a monthly allowance.

It is really up to you, if you have the money and by your post it doesn't read like you have

then pay it if you really feel like you want to be together, but I would suggest waiting and see how it all pans out.

If they don't accept it then theres your answer, I guess it wasn't meant to be.

Good Luck anyway.

Moss

[Donz]

2 months and your getting married??

man just take your time abit, wait atleast a year coz you cant reall know her that well after 2 months.

Dont do it, i guess some work out but alot doesnt.

get to know her properly before getting married.

[Lacoste]

I love the way you guys miss the point, He is in the UK, she is in Thailand telling him 'Her mother wants B40,000'. yeh right.

[sbk]

Please do not post your girlfriends photo here unless it is with her permission.

As for the rest, well, if you have asked the girl to marry you then gold would be given at the engagement ceremony. That is not sin sot, AFAIK.

If you are getting married and it is sin sot then that is given at the wedding ceremony.

There is no kind of cash downpayment on girlfriends (outside of these two ceremonies) that I have ever heard of.

Like I said before, you have to ask yourself if you love this girl enough to put up with the mother. Then decide what you will do.

[OZONE]

I love the way you guys miss the point, He is in the UK, she is in Thailand telling him 'Her mother wants B40,000'. yeh right.

Thats a good catch Lacoste'

Unless Trevor suddenly changed his mind about low-class people than this is a TROLL. Geesshhh, see his previous posts.

I don't know any Thai parents who asked their daughters b/f to pay downpayment to date her. Either you have a big sticker saying "SUCKER" tattoed on your forhead or you are just naive to the world. This is Thailand, not the land of OZ (not refering to aussie).

Excuse me Trevor but this is your own great advice from a previous thread

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/index.php?s=...st&p=598324

[sbk]

The GF is the youngest and last-unmarried child, and the only one supporting mum, latterly courtesy of yours truly at B3,000 per month, since she left her job to travel with me.

So, actually it sounds like she is with him.

[Donz]

I would like to know the outcome to this story.

[malcolminthemiddle]

I would like to know the outcome to this story.

So would Trevor

[Donz]

In my opinion DONT GIVE HER THE GOLD!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

If you do then dont say i never told you so and come here complaining about your gf doing to runner.

my last advise is DONT GIVE HER THE GOLD!!!!!!!!!!!!

did I also mention DONT GIVE HER THE GOLD.

[Trevor]

Many thanks for all your replies and encouragement. The issue of ‘remuneration’ with Thai relationships, in its various forms, is clearly one which impacts on many members.

I think my girlfriend’s mother is overstepping the mark in asking for too much, too soon into the relationship. In 27 years of visiting Thailand I’ve never been hit on like this. Her rationale may be that the daughter is her sole supporter now the other 4 kids are married off and if I abandoned her with a child there would be no breadwinner. After all, the lower-class Thai boys do this all the time, forcing girls into the nightlife industry. That’s their culture by evolution, and we cannot change it.

One way of looking at it is if I were paying for company, for a comparable time, with ‘girls who do’, would Baht 40,000 be considered excessive spread over several months or years? Perhaps not. We all like to think we get our companionship and sex for free but, both in the East and West, it still costs. In fact low-cost Thailand could be viewed as a good deal.

So, at present I take your comments on board, will play it by ear, and negotiate instalments as the relationship progresses, or not. This way everyone saves face, the family gets something, my expenses are spread out, and they see I am not (too much) of a ‘soft touch’.

(Photo) Is she really coming the raw prawn?

[Donz]

Well I hope it works out for you. I wouldnt do it but maybe the mother in-law really wants to see if your serious about the relationship, maybe they are good people etc

All the best with your decision and I hope you dont get screwed in the end

[Demodokos]

...

One way of looking at it is if I were paying for company, for a comparable time, with ‘girls who do’, would Baht 40,000 be considered excessive spread over several months or years? Perhaps not. We all like to think we get our companionship and sex for free but, both in the East and West, it still costs. In fact low-cost Thailand could be viewed as a good deal.

...

Sounds strange to me. Don't you think?

Edited August 4, 2006 by Demodokos

[VanZam]

There are several things that sound very odd to me..

Shes 22, your 50 something... you claim you didnt get her from a bar.. what I'm wondering is why in the world you think she's with you if not for the money?

Granted, there are exceptions, but not very often.

Paying 40k after 2 months, thats just playing off the "My girl is different" illness and if it were me I'd be running for the hills.

Do not let the lust of a beautiful thai/lao girl blind you.

I was recently in the same sort of situation, gfs mother was demanding money even though no marriage was planned etc.. The mother then told my gf to choose between myself and family.. I weighed up the options and had to ask myself if this was the type of family I wanted to marry into, having to put up with this crap for a long period of time. The answer was no, plain and simple.

Would I pay in your case? Not a F**ken chance. I think its high time you woke up to reality mate, your being taking for a ride and used as a walking ATM machine.