Yingluck impeachment vote on December 25

[whybother]

Aren't they re-writing the constitution to reflect that only the more qualified, better educated, lots more money, Bangkok located, elite type quality, who have sat on major Thai boards type of people can only get a vote in Parliament. Heaven forbid these water buffalo types from the country cannot make decisions on the way the country is managed as they are not superior enough?

That’s what I thought they were aiming for.

Or they create more seats in the Bangkok area and give the country areas a handful of seats?

They should also get a poll going to say that 98% of people would be in favour of such changes.

"Aren't they re-writing the constitution to reflect that only the more qualified, better educated, lots more money, Bangkok located, elite type quality, who have sat on major Thai boards type of people can only get a vote in Parliament."

No.

Where are you getting your mail from, Whybother?

I know people.

edit: None of them have anything to do with anything ... but I know them.

Edited November 16, 2014 by whybother

[kriswillems]

Well, the 5 year ban - do they really believe Yingluck is coming back?

And, whoever wins in the next "democratic" elections - does it matter?

The constitution that is written now will most probably put the real power in the hands of a non-elected commission, which mainly consist of extreme royalist and army representatives.

If not that - it will break with the 1 person 1 vote principle.

There will not be any democracy as we know it very soon in Thailand.

Edited November 16, 2014 by kriswillems

[kriswillems]

It's all extremely confusing to me:

A non-elected commission is going to vote to impeach an elected prime minister.

It's so absurd, I had to read it several times to be sure I was not misunderstanding it.

[whybother]

Well, the 5 year ban - do they really believe Yingluck is coming back?

And, whoever wins in the next "democratic" elections - does it matter?

The constitution that is written now will most probably put the real power in the hands of a non-elected commission, which mainly consist of extreme royalist and army representatives.

If not that - it will break with the 1 person 1 vote principle.

There will not be any democracy as we know it very soon in Thailand.

Once elections are held, there won't be a "non-elected commission".

If anyone seriously believes that people will be excluded from voting based some sort of education or "who you know" criteria, they've been reading to many conspiracy theory books.

[kriswillems]

The one person one vote principle also means that every vote should have the same weight.

If they keep this democratic principle, the same old people are going to be the new leaders of the country.

So, the whole coup was useless.

Thailand will not get a democracy as we know it.

There are many tricks to get rid of the one person one vote principle:

- Give more seats to BKK (which means the number of seats is not related to the number of people)

- Give more seats to the smaller provinces in the South (which again means the number of seats is not related to the number of people)

- Put more non-elected members in the senate

- Let a commission approve or disapprove proposed laws or have a veto right.

Whatever they come up with - it will be less democratic.

Edited November 16, 2014 by kriswillems

[jdinasia]

The one person one vote principle also means that every vote should have the same weight.

If they keep this democratic principle, the same old people are going to be the new leaders of the country.

So, the whole coup was useless.

Thailand will not get a democracy as we know it.

Because you say that? Or do you have some insight that the rest of us have not been told?

I think we can expect universal suffrage. (that has been expressed)

What I expect are more intensive restrictions on vote buying via populist promises. I am hoping for stronger rules dealing with corruption in elected officials)

[whybother]

The one person one vote principle also means that every vote should have the same weight.

If they keep this democratic principle, the same old people are going to be the new leaders of the country.

So, the whole coup was useless.

Thailand will not get a democracy as we know it.

IMO, it's not about who are the leaders. It's about controlling how much they rape the country.

The last two coups and the 2008 "judicial coup" happened because those in power were screwing with the system too much. Thaksin putting relatives in important positions when he was PM. Samak/Somchai trying to whitewash Thaksin's crimes. Yingluck trying to get Thaksin amnesty.

The same will keep on happening if the next government try similar things.

[kriswillems]

So, why do you think that the people in the North-East and North will suddenly vote differently?

Will they not just elect a new Thaksin minded leader?

And what was the whole purpose of the coup?

Whatever will happen, non-democratic principles are necessary to prevent the people from voting for the same old leaders.

Edited November 16, 2014 by kriswillems

[whybother]

So, why do you think that the people in the North-East and North will suddenly vote differently?

Will they not just elect a new Thaksin minded leader?

And what was the whole purpose of the coup?

Whatever will happen, non-democratic principles are necessary to prevent the people from voting for the same old leaders.

There will be some in the North/North East that will vote differently because of PTP's failed policies. There will also be other electorates in Bangkok, Central and Northern constituencies that will change their votes for similar reasons. It probably won't be enough to stop a Thaksin proxy from getting elected.

But, IMO, the purpose of the coup is to strengthen the laws around what elected people can and can't do. It will probably restrict the politicians from doing what we westerners consider to be normal political stuff, but this isn't the west. Until the people and the systems start holding politicians to account, there needs to be some restrictions on what they can do.

[ginjag]

So, why do you think that the people in the North-East and North will suddenly vote differently?

Will they not just elect a new Thaksin minded leader?

And what was the whole purpose of the coup?

Whatever will happen, non-democratic principles are necessary to prevent the people from voting for the same old leaders.

There will be some in the North/North East that will vote differently because of PTP's failed policies. There will also be other electorates in Bangkok, Central and Northern constituencies that will change their votes for similar reasons. It probably won't be enough to stop a Thaksin proxy from getting elected.

But, IMO, the purpose of the coup is to strengthen the laws around what elected people can and can't do. It will probably restrict the politicians from doing what we westerners consider to be normal political stuff, but this isn't the west. Until the people and the systems start holding politicians to account, there needs to be some restrictions on what they can do.

2nd paragraph spot on.

1st paragraph last sentence NO way not now, 6 months ago ok. too much water gone under the bridge now--people are more aware of the Shin style governing.

[whybother]

So, why do you think that the people in the North-East and North will suddenly vote differently?

Will they not just elect a new Thaksin minded leader?

And what was the whole purpose of the coup?

Whatever will happen, non-democratic principles are necessary to prevent the people from voting for the same old leaders.

There will be some in the North/North East that will vote differently because of PTP's failed policies. There will also be other electorates in Bangkok, Central and Northern constituencies that will change their votes for similar reasons. It probably won't be enough to stop a Thaksin proxy from getting elected.

But, IMO, the purpose of the coup is to strengthen the laws around what elected people can and can't do. It will probably restrict the politicians from doing what we westerners consider to be normal political stuff, but this isn't the west. Until the people and the systems start holding politicians to account, there needs to be some restrictions on what they can do.

2nd paragraph spot on.

1st paragraph last sentence NO way not now, 6 months ago ok. too much water gone under the bridge now--people are more aware of the Shin style governing.

Personally, I'd rather see a Thaksin party get into power, last a full term and then get voted out. Not that I want a Thaksin party in power, but IMO, that's the only way I can see people moving past all of this crap.

If a Democrat led coalition got into power, we'd never hear the end of "the election/constitution was rigged for them to win", which, apparently it was in 2007 too.

If PTP win and they try and get Thaksin back, it will be a repeat of 2008 or 2013/14.

If the Democrats get into power, it will be a repeat of 2010.

[chainarong]

Whatever the out comes the judges will have to be very mindful that this can all come back and kick them and others in the arse big time and that will be decided by the people not individual elite , lets have a proper handling of this case without fear nor favour and if it is necessary to go through with this no trumped up B/S, Thailand doesn't need another Martyr dividing the country.

[fab4]

What a big show.

- voting for something that is a fact already.

- voting.... while Thai people will not get the chance to vote.

- voting by the NLA which nobody ever voted for.

Who cares? Why do they do this?

Do they believe anyone will care about this? - I mean, everyone can see it's totally absurd....

the country has to learn, especially the " clever thais" up north, that they cant elect corrupt criminals just because "they are there and want to"

They didn't.

[kriswillems]

Thaksin was bad, agreed.

But did those that took over from him only had the intention to help the country?

Is the new dictatorship a group of philanthropists that doesn't expect any personal power - or not any protection of their power?

I think not.

In reality I think the coup is nothing more than a struggle for power.

No way, the BKK royalist elite is going to give the power back to the people.

There will be some way for them to control the new democracy.

Edited November 16, 2014 by kriswillems

[ratcatcher]

Yingluck might get a nice Xmas present in the form of her case being thrown out through lack of evidence,

I doubt it though with her being targeted, secret ballots and a lot of attitude adjustments going around it's an uphill battle.

Anyway she can take solace in the fact that she's still hugely popular and the people won't forget what's going here and the backlash at the polls will decimate the yellow dems even if she's not at the helm where she should be.

"...even if she's not at the helm where she should be."

She was at the helm on the SS Pheua Thai and managed to sink that ship when she struck a riceberg.

[ginjag]

So, why do you think that the people in the North-East and North will suddenly vote differently?

Will they not just elect a new Thaksin minded leader?

And what was the whole purpose of the coup?

Whatever will happen, non-democratic principles are necessary to prevent the people from voting for the same old leaders.

There will be some in the North/North East that will vote differently because of PTP's failed policies. There will also be other electorates in Bangkok, Central and Northern constituencies that will change their votes for similar reasons. It probably won't be enough to stop a Thaksin proxy from getting elected.

But, IMO, the purpose of the coup is to strengthen the laws around what elected people can and can't do. It will probably restrict the politicians from doing what we westerners consider to be normal political stuff, but this isn't the west. Until the people and the systems start holding politicians to account, there needs to be some restrictions on what they can do.

2nd paragraph spot on.

1st paragraph last sentence NO way not now, 6 months ago ok. too much water gone under the bridge now--people are more aware of the Shin style governing.

Personally, I'd rather see a Thaksin party get into power, last a full term and then get voted out. Not that I want a Thaksin party in power, but IMO, that's the only way I can see people moving past all of this crap.

If a Democrat led coalition got into power, we'd never hear the end of "the election/constitution was rigged for them to win", which, apparently it was in 2007 too.

If PTP win and they try and get Thaksin back, it will be a repeat of 2008 or 2013/14.

If the Democrats get into power, it will be a repeat of 2010.

Better still NONE of them, and if no other suitable party's leave it as it is and the proof of the pudding is in the eating.

[whybother]

Better still NONE of them, and if no other suitable party's leave it as it is and the proof of the pudding is in the eating.

If the current group stay in power, it will be a repeat of all of them put together.

Whether they like it or not, people will accept the current state of affairs for a short time. If elections aren't held at least during 2016 (and there really isn't much reason why it can't be late 2015) then the silent middle majority will come out and protest too.

[ginjag]

Better still NONE of them, and if no other suitable party's leave it as it is and the proof of the pudding is in the eating.

If the current group stay in power, it will be a repeat of all of them put together.

Whether they like it or not, people will accept the current state of affairs for a short time. If elections aren't held at least during 2016 (and there really isn't much reason why it can't be late 2015) then the silent middle majority will come out and protest too.

Fair comment but given 1 year very much more will be revealed-hence the Thai voters more enlightened, more politicians banned, clearer choices.

But as a one off, IF the PM gets more in favour, and actually is seen to be doing well he well could be in for longer, Army or not.

BUT better if real democracy could come to Thailand not their style.

[Robby nz]

So, why do you think that the people in the North-East and North will suddenly vote differently?

Will they not just elect a new Thaksin minded leader?

And what was the whole purpose of the coup?

Whatever will happen, non-democratic principles are necessary to prevent the people from voting for the same old leaders.

No Kris democratic principals are needed to prevent the same old crooked leaders from ever standing.

The answer Kris to why people would vote differently may lie in why they voted for PT last time.

To start with there was the loyalty to Tkaksin which will still be there in some cases, however in others that loyalty may well be to his money. Like the leaders who became multi millionaires from the 2010 riots.

Then there was the policies, principal among them the rice pledging scheme which has now left the poor, the people in general deeper in debt than ever before. This along with the debt it has left the country in. Many will understand this and see where the blame lies for their debt situation.

That scheme or another of its kind will never be allowed to be repeated so that will not be an incentive to vote for PT or its reincarnation.

Then there was coercion (fear) in the form of village heads who forced the people of their villages to vote as told. This was documented as the village heads being told the village fund would be discontinued if the vote from their area did not go the correct way.

Then there was the anti Dem vote which was inspired by lies and hate, which we see continued even on the pages of this site.

There was the fact that other parties were prevented from campaigning in the north and northeast even to the extent of one of the Dems campaigners being killed.

Now if we look at more recent developments say for instance the 4 By-elections that were held during the PT tenure we see that 3 out of the 4 were won by the Dems, including Don Muang that PT considered a safe seat, which was won by a swing of over 12%.

The only By-election PT won was the seat of Yinglucks sister (coming back from a 5 year suspension) who won by a reduced majority, less votes even than her driver got in the general election.

Then there was the BKK mayoral election.

PT have not made themselves popular with farmers for failing to make provision for payments when they dissolved parliament, even though PT have attempted to divert the blame, farmers know why they were not paid as they should have been and will in a lot of cases not be inclined to trust those who have blatantly lied to them.

Another example of the PT decline is the electorate in which I live which had a PT MP, after he was elected he never visited the electorate nor could he be contacted, he only ever turned up in parliament for one or two important votes where his vote was needed, but he maintained a bully boy group here who strutted around like they owned the place.

This did not endear him to the people, he and they have gone now as is the fear of them.

Tell us, has education improved during the PT administration, health services, power distribution and security, has road and rail improved ? These are things that people see in there everyday lives and hope those they vote into power will do something about.

Another big difference since the last general election is the increase in the use of social media which gets news and information out to people who previously had to rely on what their local community radio and TV wanted to tell them, these sources were in many cases run by political entities.

Sure there will still be some loyalty and PT, or their reincarnation will work on the hate as much as possible but given a level playing field with all parties able to present their policies and an election without anyone looking over voters shoulders things would be very different.

Now tell us why you think a PT or a Thaksin party would win an election.

[Robby nz]

So, why do you think that the people in the North-East and North will suddenly vote differently?

Will they not just elect a new Thaksin minded leader?

And what was the whole purpose of the coup?

Whatever will happen, non-democratic principles are necessary to prevent the people from voting for the same old leaders.

There will be some in the North/North East that will vote differently because of PTP's failed policies. There will also be other electorates in Bangkok, Central and Northern constituencies that will change their votes for similar reasons. It probably won't be enough to stop a Thaksin proxy from getting elected.

But, IMO, the purpose of the coup is to strengthen the laws around what elected people can and can't do. It will probably restrict the politicians from doing what we westerners consider to be normal political stuff, but this isn't the west. Until the people and the systems start holding politicians to account, there needs to be some restrictions on what they can do.

2nd paragraph spot on.

1st paragraph last sentence NO way not now, 6 months ago ok. too much water gone under the bridge now--people are more aware of the Shin style governing.

Personally, I'd rather see a Thaksin party get into power, last a full term and then get voted out. Not that I want a Thaksin party in power, but IMO, that's the only way I can see people moving past all of this crap.

If a Democrat led coalition got into power, we'd never hear the end of "the election/constitution was rigged for them to win", which, apparently it was in 2007 too.

If PTP win and they try and get Thaksin back, it will be a repeat of 2008 or 2013/14.

If the Democrats get into power, it will be a repeat of 2010.

Cant help but agree with you there whybother, even though as we both know and most PT supporters want to forget there were 2 Thaksin proxy parties in place before the Dems formed a coalition govt.

The last sentence is spot on Thaksin found out to late that it was the power that he craved not the money.

After going all out to enrich himself and getting caught out and evicted he couldn't stand being out of power and had to engineer the 2010 riots in an attempt to overthrow a legal Govt.

Nothing has changed in that respect so we could reasonably expect him to do the same again if out of power.

That man could have been a great PM and still in power today if he had not been such a greedy power hungry sod.

[jdinasia]

So, why do you think that the people in the North-East and North will suddenly vote differently?

Will they not just elect a new Thaksin minded leader?

And what was the whole purpose of the coup?

Whatever will happen, non-democratic principles are necessary to prevent the people from voting for the same old leaders.

Maintaining checks and balances should not require non-democratic means, but in Thailand that has not proven to be true

[IMA_FARANG]

I offered her the "out" from any criminal charges before, I'll do it again.

All she has to do is to go on public television and:

• Say she was to stupid and inexperienced to know she was being scammed by her brother.
• And that anyway, it wasn't her fault if she was just a patsy for other crooks in her party.
• And anyway, all these big bad men are picking on her.
• Then she can cry a lot, and say she just didn't understand all that complicated and boring political stuff anyhow.
• All she really wanted to do is to go shopping, but her brother made her do it.

After that performance she couldn't win a race for dunce of the year, anyhow.

[DaffyDuck]

Dream on! Firstly, there is not going to be any polls for a long long time and secondly, when and if an election is held, I doubt if the reds could muster enough support to stand candidates.

What he said.

It's fascinating that Farang red shirt sympathizers don't know when to just move on...

Edited November 16, 2014 by DaffyDuck

[bangrak]

Aren't they re-writing the constitution to reflect that only the more qualified, better educated, lots more money, Bangkok located, elite type quality, who have sat on major Thai boards type of people can only get a vote in Parliament. Heaven forbid these water buffalo types from the country cannot make decisions on the way the country is managed as they are not superior enough?

That’s what I thought they were aiming for.

Or they create more seats in the Bangkok area and give the country areas a handful of seats?

They should also get a poll going to say that 98% of people would be in favour of such changes.

"Aren't they re-writing the constitution to reflect that only the more qualified, better educated, lots more money, Bangkok located, elite type quality, who have sat on major Thai boards type of people can only get a vote in Parliament."

No.

Where are you getting your mail from, Whybother?

Not from the Shins' PR services, and that's why I like him better...

[bangrak]

Yingluck might get a nice Xmas present in the form of her case being thrown out through lack of evidence,

I doubt it though with her being targeted, secret ballots and a lot of attitude adjustments going around it's an uphill battle.

Anyway she can take solace in the fact that she's still hugely popular and the people won't forget what's going here and the backlash at the polls will decimate the yellow dems even if she's not at the helm where she should be.

Before 'red' comrades were writing about 'the majority', recently they're evoluating towards reality, they write about 'the people', as for some sugarmade 'icons' like YS, I wonder about the size of that 'hugely' in most of Thailand, though popular she remains in the Shins' red territories no doubt. I couldn't care less about 'yellow dems' just a hue less-bad than the 'red un-dems', and I'd rather see both 'decimated', for 'the people' to get a first chance in History to vote for (even half) decent candidates! But not you I guess...

[bangrak]

You must be visiting the same Burmese mystic as Thaksin or is it The General/PM's fortune teller? Some crystal ball they must have.

No, just a different Burmese mystic than you're visiting.

What a ridiculous statement you silly little man. Take you trolling elsewhere.

I'd like to see you being 'recycled', seems nowadays they can make some quite usefull things with garbage, you have a future...

[The stuttering parrot]

Pretty simple banrak it's called democracy and the people voted for the PTP then were robbed then voted for the PTP then after another election was called under the constitution and people were denied the vote by the yellow dems and robbed again by the recent coup.

Now this might shock you but if the boot was on the other foot and the yellow dems were elected I would cop it on the chin but if there was a coup and they threw the dems out I would be just as outraged that the peoples vote wasn't respected.

[sjaak327]

Yingluck might get a nice Xmas present in the form of her case being thrown out through lack of evidence,

I doubt it though with her being targeted, secret ballots and a lot of attitude adjustments going around it's an uphill battle.

Anyway she can take solace in the fact that she's still hugely popular and the people won't forget what's going here and the backlash at the polls will decimate the yellow dems even if she's not at the helm where she should be.

Before 'red' comrades were writing about 'the majority', recently they're evoluating towards reality, they write about 'the people', as for some sugarmade 'icons' like YS, I wonder about the size of that 'hugely' in most of Thailand, though popular she remains in the Shins' red territories no doubt. I couldn't care less about 'yellow dems' just a hue less-bad than the 'red un-dems', and I'd rather see both 'decimated', for 'the people' to get a first chance in History to vote for (even half) decent candidates! But not you I guess...

I agree, I too would see reds and yellows be decimated in free and fair elections as well. But somehow I doubt either will be meeting that fate any time soon.

Let's just wait and see if any future free and fair election would actually matter or that any resulting government would be severely restricted in what they can achieve, as the good intentions of the people who are running the show now has yet teo be revealed to me. So far I see more of the same.

[Lupatria]

Another 'silent night' on Dec. 25th?

Edited November 16, 2014 by Lupatria

[LuckyLew]

Yingluck might get a nice Xmas present in the form of her case being thrown out through lack of evidence,

I doubt it though with her being targeted, secret ballots and a lot of attitude adjustments going around it's an uphill battle.

Anyway she can take solace in the fact that she's still hugely popular and the people won't forget what's going here and the backlash at the polls will decimate the yellow dems even if she's not at the helm where she should be.

She can take solace in the fact that her policies cost thais over 500 billion and made many of her family, friends and parrners very rich ... what does she care? She doesn't!!!! From a family with no morals or scrupels ... just more me me me