Thai bureaucracy: Land offices most corrupt, police ranks 2nd worst in survey

[IamNoone88]

The article is mostly correct - except for the figures, which, in my opinion, far below the reality of the situation.

[glasswort]

The survey appears to have been conducted in Thai households only so presumably the numbers do not include facilitation fess paid by foreigners. If they did then I imagine the Immigration Dept would appear somewhere near the top of the list.

[finnomick]

Great, another survey / report to remind everyone what they already know that corruption is alive, well and booming.

It's pointless to ask with all this knowledge what's being done about it because the answer is equally well known.

The new govt is no more interested in aggressive action that any of its predecessors and when asked about the wealth of senior people, including his brother, the PM gave a wishy washy answer about not jumping to conclusions as some had married into wealth.

Those involved in the the really serious corruption are all the same under the skin and are in no hurry to see action taken against their own.

My thoughts exactly -- they know about it, we know about it, so what's anyone going to do about it ? A big fat zero is what I think......

[fxe1200]

This must anger the heads of the RTPF. Only 2nd !

I think, there is still some potential left in gains. Let us hope, the RTP makes it number one next year. If one would add the undocumented bribes resulting from cover ups of criminal cases, the RTP would be the number one already. Therefore the criteria to create those statistics must be changed, in order eliminate the unfairness of the evaluation of the RTP.

[Docno]

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Have to admit, that's of brilliant bit of verbal confetti. Cut & paste a bunch of articles, throw them in the blender, and viola!

Apparently someone ran out of their medication over the weekend. The original piece seems to have disappeared or been pulled, but I'm glad you captured it in your reply for posterity. There were times in my younger days when I consumed stranger things and would have probably understood a good part of it.

[cm247]

code of conduct for a petty thief: If there's a way to swindle, then do it, and get as much pay-back as possible. Some animals in nature are opportunistic. They wander through the forest looking for any chance to grab a meal. Similarly, some people think that way.

I had a Thai g.f. She spend many months endeavoring to get a Thai ID. When she finally did, it cost a Bt.50,000 bribe to the bureaucrat. She told me, if she had told the bureaucrat that she had a farang b.f., the bribe would have been 5 times as much. I believe it.

I guess being taken for 50K is better than being taken for 250K.

[godden]

Their morals come and belong in a cesspit, so much for the land of smiles.

[GAZZPA]

what they need to do is just start,, stop talking about it, stop doing surveys, stop giving constant lip service to this huge problem and actually do something,,, its frustrating to read this.

Give the Anti corruption department real power so no one is safe and no one can hide. Park the "face" issue and allow senior figures to be challenged openly about their participation in possible corrupt activities and once evidence is in play go to trial and impose heavy sentences for guilty parties. (I have been told that China are imposing the death penalty in some cases!)

It really isn't difficult to start, surely it can be done. Not an easy task overall but once heads start to roll and once people see that everyone is under the spotlight no matter where they are in society it will have an effect for sure.

I hope they do it soon,, its the one main thing holding this country back for sure.

[templedog]

I experienced first-hand the corruption at the land dept. My wife and I bought a townhouse in Don Mueang, and in just one week

after we closed with the bank, the home next to us started building a two story structure straight up from the property dividing wall! Totally illegal!!!!

We went down to the land dept to file a complaint and they were very rude to us, and resistant to file a complaint.

They said to us, "you should not do this, because you should just accept it, you will have to live with your neighbors."

"You should be a good neighbor and allow them to do it." I said, "Why don't they be good neighbors, and not do this?"

The land office person said, "Don't cause trouble." I WAS FLOORED WITH DISBELIEF!! Ready to go postal on them all.

I finally found out through some respectable neighbors that it is common for Thais to bribe the land dept in order to get

construction permits for illegal building......duh.......I had my suspicions from the get go, but now I am convinced.

We finally had a talk with the family who was doing this illegal building and compromised by having them make a few adjustments that

I could live with. Welcome to Thailand.

Edited November 19, 2014 by templedog

[GAZZPA]

These figures only apply to "heads of Thai households". The Farang price is around 5 times higher.

It has nothing to do with being 'farang' or not but solely on your 'influence' - some farang, and many long-term have this influence so pay the same or less than the average Thai. For 'farang' who choose not to integrate(learn language, join clubs etc), personally I think they deserve to pay more.

I don't speak Thai,, why? Well I work for a company that trades Internationally and everyone uses English everyday,, its difficult to find time and practice. So does that mean I should pay more? I bring a lot of Western customers into Thailand, I bring a lot of export business and in turn we employ a whole company of people and factory staff to facilitate demand. So, should I pay more?

What you are saying is nonsense, no one should pay.

[templedog]

These figures only apply to "heads of Thai households". The Farang price is around 5 times higher.

It has nothing to do with being 'farang' or not but solely on your 'influence' - some farang, and many long-term have this influence so pay the same or less than the average Thai. For 'farang' who choose not to integrate(learn language, join clubs etc), personally I think they deserve to pay more.

I don't speak Thai,, why? Well I work for a company that trades Internationally and everyone uses English everyday,, its difficult to find time and practice. So does that mean I should pay more? I bring a lot of Western customers into Thailand, I bring a lot of export business and in turn we employ a whole company of people and factory staff to facilitate demand. So, should I pay more?

What you are saying is nonsense, no one should pay.

@ Neeranam.......in the USA there are many Thais that refuse to "join the club", learn the language...etc....and they pay the same price as Americans.....everywhere they go. So....what do you say to that?

[ukguyinthai]

Everyone is happy with corruption. The people and the government workers.

A bribe is usually something you pay to save money or get off with a crime. or attain something you would not normally be able to.

For the government workers its extra money.

it is SO open in this country,if somebody somewhere set up sting operations they would make a fortune................. in bribes.

There is no will to change,it works ok for the middle class and up.

[abitmiffed]

There will be a large number of police job vacancies coming soon and the land office will have way too many new staff starting soon i'm sure.

It's allllllll about the money baby.

T.I.T

[dieseldave1951]

ha ha ha ha how can you report corruption to the corrupt police give me another one

i need a laugh

[Hatyaier]

Finally a survey I can believe. The bribes at the land office usually are to change to price to avoid taxes. Everyone wins except the government so not many people complain. Same with the police who accept a lower amount for themselves. Of course it is the general public as a whole who lose.

[theguyfromanotherforum]

Well there is this survey.

A lot more than what I would expect from a corrupt Canadian government to publish where corruption does not exist because it is hidden rather than open like in Thailand.

If I have to choose (and I have), I would rather live in a country with less hypocrisy.

[k9guy62]

Does anyone besides me find it repulsive in nature that a journalistic piece has to be created to make people aware of the horrendous amount of corruption in this country? I find it truly disappointing and hope that this new government can bring this mentality of corruption amongst government agencies to a halt. In order for corruption in general to stop, the government is going to have to lead the way. Thai people need their leaders to lead for a change instead of being seen as constantly fleecing their citizens. I love this country but it is disappointing to see so many good people having to struggle just to make ends meet.

Edited November 19, 2014 by k9guy62

[dieseldave1951]

RTP did not pay enough money to be number one on the list must be really miffed

This must anger the heads of the RTPF. Only 2nd !

I think, there is still some potential left in gains. Let us hope, the RTP makes it number one next year. If one would add the undocumented bribes resulting from cover ups of criminal cases, the RTP would be the number one already. Therefore the criteria to create those statistics must be changed, in order eliminate the unfairness of the evaluation of the RTP.

[Suffinator]

The true meaning and face of Thainess

[MobileContent]

We all know that the RTP is number one.

From the illegal gambling places they stake in billions a year.

I would even go that far to claim that the RTP takes in as all combined and on second place would be the Thai Army which by the way run many security guards companies, airport limo services and of course THAI Airways.

[arrowsdawdle]

Department of Lands deputy director-general Wanit Intarak said the department was aware of the bad reputation of the land offices because of the bribery. It is difficult for the department to control as many as 800 offices and units under its jurisdiction, he said. "But we have inspected and boosted ethics and morality among officials to prevent corruption. We also use information technology in the management system to limit the opportunity for officials to take bribes."

How about setting up a hotline to take & document people's complaints? Use these to set up a couple of sting operations and presto. You're in business.

How much do you think they'll want to let you file a complaint?

[oneday]

They missed a really big one. To get a government job most people who do not have connections have to buy their way into a government job...often up to 500,000 baht and that is from personal experience. Government jobs are seen as very high security and lucrative due to all the bribe money rolling in and ridiculous government loans any government employee can get for nothing.

[SolePurpose]

These figures only apply to "heads of Thai households". The Farang price is around 5 times higher.

It has nothing to do with being 'farang' or not but solely on your 'influence' - some farang, and many long-term have this influence so pay the same or less than the average Thai. For 'farang' who choose not to integrate(learn language, join clubs etc), personally I think they deserve to pay more.

Haha are you kidding me? " it has nothing to do with being a farang, but solely on your influence"

All the thai have this assumption or know that all farangs are rich or have money. That's why they have to pay more for everything.

My father is a farang and every time we go somewhere with him. He has to pay double the price or maybe more. This is from experince. The only time my father does not have to pay double the price is when we go to our local market.

You obviously haven't had enough experience in Thailand. Try going to a few tourist districts. The majority of time you will pay double. And then try and get a Thai friend ( if you have one ) to buy the same thing from the same shop, but get him to ask for a "Thai price". Garuntee your Thai friend will pay less than you.

Edited November 19, 2014 by SolePurpose

[BangkokGastronaut]

Pol Colonel Mongkol Ketphan of the national police office said the Royal Thai Police had opened channels for people to lodge complaints on the work of the police to eliminate corruption from police stations.

BIB: Good morning Sir, can I be of assistance?

Man: Yes, I'd like to register a complaint about corruption in the RTPF.

BIB: Of course Sir. The complaint will need a non-refundable deposit of 10,000 baht.

Man: Erm, that's exactly the sort of thing I'm complaining about.

BIB: Is it? Oh well, in that case it's 20,000 baht.

Man: 20,000 baht!?

BIB: Well, it's 10,000 baht for the initial complaint and a further 10,000 baht for complaining about the 10,000 baht. So it's two complaints, you see.

Man: That's outrageous.

BIB: That's business.

Man: But you're a public service.

BIB: Are we? I thought we were a self-serving organisation with carte blanche to demand money for anything and everything. Now, do you wish to proceed?

Man: Bugger this. And even if I were to give you any money, nothing would come of it.

BIB: Sir, the RTPF works in a very subtle way. Our methods are our weapon and our weapon is concealed. What we say is not necessarily what we do.

Man: So what about Koh Tao; that was a mess?

BIB: How do you know it was a mess? Were you there?

Man: Of course I wasn't there. I was here in Bangkok.

BIB: Then you have just become our new prime suspect. Officers, arrest this man immediately....

[Don Aleman]

okay, lets see if I finally got it right : 1). Land offices, 2). Police and, 3). Who is it politicians or Monks ?

[crickets]

If u worked at the land office here and u could get away with it would u do it? Me thinks yes.

[klauskunkel]

they were asked for a bribe by officials at land offices whenever contacted for a service, while 6.1 per cent said police personnel asked for money from them.

This survey only asked for numbers on bribes that were proactively demanded by the officers.

[media]

Why doesnt the Military GOV start making arrests???

Start nicking these parasites on the country

[Lupatria]

Welcome to Corruptistan!

Simply stop rewarding those who got caught with inactive posts! And strip them of their ill gotten wealth!

[bendywire]

The MOE in my experience is one of the most corrupt departments in thailand. You only have to look at how they employ foreign language teachers. They get money from the government to hire teachers. They then charge students extra for the privilege of learning another language. The agent comes along and pays the school for the contract. The school pays say 40-50k per month the agent then pays the teacher may 30-35k a month for nine and half months. If the teacher is a non native then maybe 20 at most. The other subjects are no better. Teachers often encourage gift giving to ensure a good grade. I could go on but with the standard of education in thailand. The truth is there for all to see.