scorecard Posted November 23, 2014 Share Posted November 23, 2014 <script type='text/javascript'>window.mod_pagespeed_start = Number(new Date());</script> <script type='text/javascript'>window.mod_pagespeed_start = Number(new Date());</script> Why should the UDD/PTP take any part is BS process.They should leading the way and telling every party to boycott anything this junta suggests.The junta has stacked the deck and it doesn't matter what input anyone has because it's designed to get the yellow dems over the line.The UDD / PTP / thaksin/ yingluck camp or however the bias attitude adjusted media want portray them really don't have to do anything .The general and the junta are now showing their true intentions as they try and ramp up their readjustment of the people to make them happy however unfortunately for them in these modern times their actions receive widespread coverage and all this is backfiring and they will be punished at the polls.For a bloke who wants to bring happiness he sure is an angry dude! So I guess you would prefer to go back to the last mob of no conscience dictators / thieves who were seriously raping the country and proclaiming daily that they were protecting democracy and in 10+ years had never once announced, discussed or introduced any policies to gain a good quality of life for all Thais through their own productivity? are your posts always full of lies? What lies? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whybother Posted November 23, 2014 Share Posted November 23, 2014 so you think that PTP and UDD should participate? As for a political strategy, since participation is purely a political question, if they do, it will of course not impact the result. The best they can hope for is a stage from which to propose truly democratic ideas without (such) a threat of mini-vacations in non-disclosed military resorts. But the 2 groups can do the same without participating and without any implication of validating the process which they must view as illegitimate. It's a mixed bag either way. They would have to come up with some "truly democratic ideas" before they could propose them. Their problem at the moment (and with a few posters here) is that all they will do is say "Junta therefore constitution bad", when 90% of this constitution will most likely be exactly the same as the 1997 "peoples" constitution. To be more effective, they need to be specific about their criticisms and explain why they don't like particular sections. Of course they could do that with out being involved, but I think it would be more effective for them if they were involved. They may come with dangerous and undemocratic ideas such as "one man, one vote" and "elected members" The key part there is "come up with". Doesn't Thailand already have one man, one vote? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rickirs Posted November 23, 2014 Share Posted November 23, 2014 <script type='text/javascript'>window.mod_pagespeed_start = Number(new Date());</script> so you think that PTP and UDD should participate? As for a political strategy, since participation is purely a political question, if they do, it will of course not impact the result. The best they can hope for is a stage from which to propose truly democratic ideas without (such) a threat of mini-vacations in non-disclosed military resorts. But the 2 groups can do the same without participating and without any implication of validating the process which they must view as illegitimate. It's a mixed bag either way. They would have to come up with some "truly democratic ideas" before they could propose them. Their problem at the moment (and with a few posters here) is that all they will do is say "Junta therefore constitution bad", when 90% of this constitution will most likely be exactly the same as the 1997 "peoples" constitution. To be more effective, they need to be specific about their criticisms and explain why they don't like particular sections. Of course they could do that with out being involved, but I think it would be more effective for them if they were involved. They may come with dangerous and undemocratic ideas such as "one man, one vote" and "elected members" "He also ruled out any negative repercussions over the rising trend of anti-coup protests, saying the protesters would be reined in because martial law was still in force." The Junta has shown it views even a single protester as a threat to national security. Ironically Abhisit has observed that the Junta violates its own Interim Charter when it come to human rights and equality provisions. It's a good thing that General Prayuth has clarified that he is not a dictator, that he can't just order things to be done. Otherwise, people might question the sincerity of the NCPO to bring democracy back to Thailand. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
than Posted November 23, 2014 Share Posted November 23, 2014 It's not a problem PTP/UDD are not democratic element in Thailand....... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
millwall_fan Posted November 23, 2014 Share Posted November 23, 2014 <script type='text/javascript'>window.mod_pagespeed_start = Number(new Date());</script> It's not a problem PTP/UDD are not democratic element in Thailand....... Whereas Gen. Prayuth and his friends who stole power at the end of a gun barrel are of course, consummate democrats? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whybother Posted November 23, 2014 Share Posted November 23, 2014 How can Pheua Thai possibly participate when they are banned from meeting as a corporate body to discuss their position on the country's future? This whole process is designed to restore power to the ruling elite. The coup came about so that Prayuth's father and many, many other members of the ruling elite could regain corrupt economic and political power from Thakskin and his cronies. Can't they get their skype messages individually? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
candide Posted November 23, 2014 Share Posted November 23, 2014 so you think that PTP and UDD should participate? As for a political strategy, since participation is purely a political question, if they do, it will of course not impact the result. The best they can hope for is a stage from which to propose truly democratic ideas without (such) a threat of mini-vacations in non-disclosed military resorts. But the 2 groups can do the same without participating and without any implication of validating the process which they must view as illegitimate. It's a mixed bag either way. They would have to come up with some "truly democratic ideas" before they could propose them. Their problem at the moment (and with a few posters here) is that all they will do is say "Junta therefore constitution bad", when 90% of this constitution will most likely be exactly the same as the 1997 "peoples" constitution. To be more effective, they need to be specific about their criticisms and explain why they don't like particular sections. Of course they could do that with out being involved, but I think it would be more effective for them if they were involved. They may come with dangerous and undemocratic ideas such as "one man, one vote" and "elected members" The key part there is "come up with". Doesn't Thailand already have one man, one vote? For the time being Thailand has nothing.... What I mean is one can blah blah endlessly about "creative charter drafting", proposing new ideas, etc... At the end, only a few uncreative principles are important: - how is the "one man, one vote" system applied, if applied (i.e. in a regional system like in the US, some regions have a better MP/elector ratio than others),Will there be non elected members along elected ones? - what is the power of elected members vs nominated members? (especially in Thailand we know how they are nominated) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mudcrab Posted November 23, 2014 Share Posted November 23, 2014 How can Pheua Thai possibly participate when they are banned from meeting as a corporate body to discuss their position on the country's future? This whole process is designed to restore power to the ruling elite. The coup came about so that Prayuth's father and many, many other members of the ruling elite could regain corrupt economic and political power from Thakskin and his cronies. You say that like it's a bad thing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post than Posted November 23, 2014 Popular Post Share Posted November 23, 2014 <script type='text/javascript'>window.mod_pagespeed_start = Number(new Date());</script> It's not a problem PTP/UDD are not democratic element in Thailand....... Whereas Gen. Prayuth and his friends who stole power at the end of a gun barrel are of course, consummate democrats? What about a political party would use illegal means to control totally the country, to govern for a convict fugitive person and not for the well being of the people, to try to destroyed check of balance of institutions for their own profit.. I call this an anti democratic party 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tigermonkey Posted November 23, 2014 Share Posted November 23, 2014 In Thailand, Power Comes With Help From Skype Just in case any of you are interested in who is boycotting the process. http://www.nytimes.com/2013/01/30/world/asia/thaksin-shinawatra-of-thailand-wields-influence-from-afar.html?pagewanted=all&_r=0 An article which is almost two tears old, and has no mention of "boycotting" is entirely irrelevant to this discussion. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
millwall_fan Posted November 23, 2014 Share Posted November 23, 2014 <script type='text/javascript'>window.mod_pagespeed_start = Number(new Date());</script> <script type='text/javascript'>window.mod_pagespeed_start = Number(new Date());</script> It's not a problem PTP/UDD are not democratic element in Thailand....... Whereas Gen. Prayuth and his friends who stole power at the end of a gun barrel are of course, consummate democrats? What about a political party would use illegal means to control totally the country, to govern for a convict fugitive person and not for the well being of the people, to try to destroyed check of balance of institutions for their own profit.. I call this an anti democratic party You've been reading 'The Nation' too much! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scorecard Posted November 23, 2014 Share Posted November 23, 2014 <script type='text/javascript'>window.mod_pagespeed_start = Number(new Date());</script> <script type='text/javascript'>window.mod_pagespeed_start = Number(new Date());</script> Why should the UDD/PTP take any part is BS process.They should leading the way and telling every party to boycott anything this junta suggests.The junta has stacked the deck and it doesn't matter what input anyone has because it's designed to get the yellow dems over the line.The UDD / PTP / thaksin/ yingluck camp or however the bias attitude adjusted media want portray them really don't have to do anything .The general and the junta are now showing their true intentions as they try and ramp up their readjustment of the people to make them happy however unfortunately for them in these modern times their actions receive widespread coverage and all this is backfiring and they will be punished at the polls.For a bloke who wants to bring happiness he sure is an angry dude! So I guess you would prefer to go back to the last mob of no conscience dictators / thieves who were seriously raping the country and proclaiming daily that they were protecting democracy and in 10+ years had never once announced, discussed or introduced any policies to gain a good quality of life for all Thais through their own productivity? are your posts always full of lies? Hey tbt: I wrote "...10+ years had never once announced, discussed or introduced any policies to gain a good quality of life for all Thais through their own productivity? So share anything specific which proves this is a lie. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post scorecard Posted November 23, 2014 Popular Post Share Posted November 23, 2014 (edited) <script type='text/javascript'>window.mod_pagespeed_start = Number(new Date());</script> Well here we are, 2007 referendum deja vu General Lertrat Ratanavanich, Constitution Drafting Committee spokesman, allayed fears that the charter drafting process would be marred by protests, saying the majority of the country supported the move to write the new constitution. "If there is not a new charter, there will not be an election and the country will not overcome our deadlock. We must push for reform and the new charter, he said. the majority of the country supported the move to write the new constitution. Really? When did they ask? Notice he clarified that position in his next sentence. You will support the new charter or there will be no election. Now where and when has that been heard before? Junta Constitution 2007 Referendum Government officials have gone to pains to link plans for a real election with asuccessful referendum. Last week Defense Minister Boonrawd Somtas told reporters that an election “can take place only if the new constitution passes the referendum.” The 17 million baht that the government has already spent on advertising to encourage a Yes vote has also linked the referendum to an election, implying that a No will simply mean longer military rule. What’s more, coup leader Sonthi Boonyaratglin has reportedly ordered soldiers in all regions “to publicize the charter to residents.” http://www.asiasentinel.com/politics/thailand-on-spin-cycle/ Plus ca change....................................... alt=coffee1.gif width=32 height=24> So fabie why are you mentioning 2007, this is 2014, different year, different song. Or perhaps your point is that you want everything in Thailand to be the same, forever and forever... massive corruption continues, false claims about democracy from a party which was actually a dictator, poor unaware folks in Esan told that their village is now 'officially' red regardless of their own opinions, also told to attend democracy school to hear nothing more then hate speeches, the trough / rape of taxpayers funds continues forever, lack of equal justice, scaly incapable politicians fools running ruining the country, environmental hearings a total sham with the richest politician in Thailand saying people who object are rubbish, massive nepotism whereby murder turns to a job for the bully boy son, etc etc etc etc etc....... and all with zero conscience. Strange values you have fabie, but then again nice lesson materials to teach my kids what's wrong. Edited November 23, 2014 by scorecard 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bangrak Posted November 23, 2014 Share Posted November 23, 2014 so you think that PTP and UDD should participate? As for a political strategy, since participation is purely a political question, if they do, it will of course not impact the result. The best they can hope for is a stage from which to propose truly democratic ideas without (such) a threat of mini-vacations in non-disclosed military resorts. But the 2 groups can do the same without participating and without any implication of validating the process which they must view as illegitimate. It's a mixed bag either way. They would have to come up with some "truly democratic ideas" before they could propose them. Their problem at the moment (and with a few posters here) is that all they will do is say "Junta therefore constitution bad", when 90% of this constitution will most likely be exactly the same as the 1997 "peoples" constitution. To be more effective, they need to be specific about their criticisms and explain why they don't like particular sections. Of course they could do that with out being involved, but I think it would be more effective for them if they were involved. They may come with dangerous and undemocratic ideas such as "one man, one vote" and "elected members" The key part there is "come up with". Doesn't Thailand already have one man, one vote? Let me tell you a secret, 'the puppet master''s PTP/UDD were trying to push a new concept of his: the 'happy hour elections', buy one vote and get a second vote for free, but it was rejected from the agenda, that's why they don't go, but hush-hush! Now, seriously, which positive elements for the (whole) nation, what democratical content, could one expect that bunch to bring? They had to be invited, they were, they don't come, fine, the better so, and they can't complain, so they twist, turn, desinform, lie, doing what they're reknown for... 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post The stuttering parrot Posted November 23, 2014 Popular Post Share Posted November 23, 2014 Same old rhetoric from the yellow dem junta supporters. Not everybody hi Thailand that is anti junta is a red supporter . An election under the constitution was called legally the yellow dems stopped the people from voting and not all of them were either dem or PTP supporters yet they were denied their right to cast a vote. Didn't see the military protecting their rights. No but we did hear from the self proclaimed peoples champion that the coup had been planned months before it happened. That's why he is out of the picture and and pretending to be a monk because of letting that little gem out of the bag. 6 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
than Posted November 23, 2014 Share Posted November 23, 2014 <script type='text/javascript'>window.mod_pagespeed_start = Number(new Date());</script> <script type='text/javascript'>window.mod_pagespeed_start = Number(new Date());</script> It's not a problem PTP/UDD are not democratic element in Thailand....... Whereas Gen. Prayuth and his friends who stole power at the end of a gun barrel are of course, consummate democrats? What about a political party would use illegal means to control totally the country, to govern for a convict fugitive person and not for the well being of the people, to try to destroyed check of balance of institutions for their own profit.. I call this an anti democratic party You've been reading 'The Nation' too much! Not only, BP, le Monde, Washington post, Courier Internationale, the Diplomatic World............ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fab4 Posted November 23, 2014 Share Posted November 23, 2014 <script type='text/javascript'>window.mod_pagespeed_start = Number(new Date());</script> Well here we are, 2007 referendum deja vu General Lertrat Ratanavanich, Constitution Drafting Committee spokesman, allayed fears that the charter drafting process would be marred by protests, saying the majority of the country supported the move to write the new constitution. "If there is not a new charter, there will not be an election and the country will not overcome our deadlock. We must push for reform and the new charter, he said. the majority of the country supported the move to write the new constitution. Really? When did they ask? Notice he clarified that position in his next sentence. You will support the new charter or there will be no election. Now where and when has that been heard before? Junta Constitution 2007 Referendum Government officials have gone to pains to link plans for a real election with asuccessful referendum. Last week Defense Minister Boonrawd Somtas told reporters that an election “can take place only if the new constitution passes the referendum.” The 17 million baht that the government has already spent on advertising to encourage a Yes vote has also linked the referendum to an election, implying that a No will simply mean longer military rule. What’s more, coup leader Sonthi Boonyaratglin has reportedly ordered soldiers in all regions “to publicize the charter to residents.” http://www.asiasentinel.com/politics/thailand-on-spin-cycle/ Plus ca change....................................... alt=coffee1.gif width=32 height=24> So fabie why are you mentioning 2007, this is 2014, different year, different song. Or perhaps your point is that you want everything in Thailand to be the same, forever and forever... massive corruption continues, false claims about democracy from a party which was actually a dictator, poor unaware folks in Esan told that their village is now 'officially' red regardless of their own opinions, also told to attend democracy school to hear nothing more then hate speeches, the trough / rape of taxpayers funds continues forever, lack of equal justice, scaly incapable politicians fools running ruining the country, environmental hearings a total sham with the richest politician in Thailand saying people who object are rubbish, massive nepotism whereby murder turns to a job for the bully boy son, etc etc etc etc etc....... and all with zero conscience. Strange values you have fabie, but then again nice lesson materials to teach my kids what's wrong. You (and others) completely missed the point didn't you? I refer to the past coup and it's ramifications specifically as a reference point to compare with the activities of the latest junta's actions. They're the ones repeating the past, not me. They didn't learn then and they still haven't learnt, neither have you by the sound of it..................................... 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikemac Posted November 23, 2014 Share Posted November 23, 2014 In Thailand, Power Comes With Help From Skype Just in case any of you are interested in who is boycotting the process. http://www.nytimes.com/2013/01/30/world/asia/thaksin-shinawatra-of-thailand-wields-influence-from-afar.html?pagewanted=all&_r=0 An article which is almost two tears old, and has no mention of "boycotting" is entirely irrelevant to this discussion. @ Tigermonkey - I noticed your comment was "liked" by Fab4, who posted a link today to an article which was published on WED,11 JULY 2007 which was also irrelevant to this discussion. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tbthailand Posted November 23, 2014 Share Posted November 23, 2014 so you think that PTP and UDD should participate? As for a political strategy, since participation is purely a political question, if they do, it will of course not impact the result. The best they can hope for is a stage from which to propose truly democratic ideas without (such) a threat of mini-vacations in non-disclosed military resorts. But the 2 groups can do the same without participating and without any implication of validating the process which they must view as illegitimate. It's a mixed bag either way. They would have to come up with some "truly democratic ideas" before they could propose them. Their problem at the moment (and with a few posters here) is that all they will do is say "Junta therefore constitution bad", when 90% of this constitution will most likely be exactly the same as the 1997 "peoples" constitution. To be more effective, they need to be specific about their criticisms and explain why they don't like particular sections. Of course they could do that with out being involved, but I think it would be more effective for them if they were involved. 90% the same or not, you know that the effect of changes is not based on percentages of text / articles in the document. A very small change in the last constitution effectively gave military/royalists control of the senate and allowed them to potentially block any votes they did not like. That, along with the slight changes that made the courts permanent tools of the military/royalists, allowed them to basically dissolve their opposition's parties twice and remove two of their elected PMs. With the intervention of the generals, they managed to change the governments undemocratically in 2008 and 2014... The 2014 'intervention' will lead to a constitution (in my opinion) which will ensure not only that these anti-democratic levers remain and are strengthened, but the actual manner of defining representation will effectively disenfranchise huge swaths of the electorate and allow the democrats or other pawns of the military/royalist block to actually win an 'election' for the first time since the 97 constitution. Exactly how the 'NCPO' will decide to implement that is not clear, but that result is the only thing worth actually waiting for. The rest of the hand-waving about reforms and corruption is a distraction, nothing more. (BTW, 'junta therefore constitution bad' is a simple shorthand to reflect the reality of actions being taken and the intentions of the 'NCPO'. They have the final word on any document - as defined in the interim constitution - and the 'NCPO' is constantly restating its authority... ) 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tbthailand Posted November 23, 2014 Share Posted November 23, 2014 <script type='text/javascript'>window.mod_pagespeed_start = Number(new Date());</script> <script type='text/javascript'>window.mod_pagespeed_start = Number(new Date());</script> Why should the UDD/PTP take any part is BS process. They should leading the way and telling every party to boycott anything this junta suggests. The junta has stacked the deck and it doesn't matter what input anyone has because it's designed to get the yellow dems over the line. The UDD / PTP / thaksin/ yingluck camp or however the bias attitude adjusted media want portray them really don't have to do anything . The general and the junta are now showing their true intentions as they try and ramp up their readjustment of the people to make them happy however unfortunately for them in these modern times their actions receive widespread coverage and all this is backfiring and they will be punished at the polls. For a bloke who wants to bring happiness he sure is an angry dude! So I guess you would prefer to go back to the last mob of no conscience dictators / thieves who were seriously raping the country and proclaiming daily that they were protecting democracy and in 10+ years had never once announced, discussed or introduced any policies to gain a good quality of life for all Thais through their own productivity? are your posts always full of lies? Hey tbt: I wrote "...10+ years had never once announced, discussed or introduced any policies to gain a good quality of life for all Thais through their own productivity? So share anything specific which proves this is a lie. other way around, big guy. You support your propaganda, OK? D-tor? you mean an elected government or a general? Thieves? You know corruption knows no colors, so that is a non-starter. Protecting democracy? well better than the current crowd. Never once announced, discussed, or introduced ... blah blah, blah? Don't make me laugh. The governments that existed for the last 15 years certainly had policies that benefit Thais. The easiest way to indicate that these governments were actually executing on policies which were more fair is to look at the budget spending which trended towards a more equitable distribution across the country during this time. And though it wasn't addressed to me, to answer your question, I have stated several times that reinstating the 97 constitution and telling the EC to get to work would be the fastest and most reasonable path to returning self-governance to the Thai people. There would obviously remain the sticky problem of reforming the military, however, .......... so back to the question... are your posts always full of lies? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tigermonkey Posted November 24, 2014 Share Posted November 24, 2014 In Thailand, Power Comes With Help From Skype Just in case any of you are interested in who is boycotting the process. http://www.nytimes.com/2013/01/30/world/asia/thaksin-shinawatra-of-thailand-wields-influence-from-afar.html?pagewanted=all&_r=0 An article which is almost two tears old, and has no mention of "boycotting" is entirely irrelevant to this discussion. @ Tigermonkey - I noticed your comment was "liked" by Fab4, who posted a link today to an article which was published on WED,11 JULY 2007 which was also irrelevant to this discussion. Thank you. I shall try to maintain more strict control over my 'likers'. Perhaps you can give some pointers regarding the best way to exercise such control. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whybother Posted November 24, 2014 Share Posted November 24, 2014 They would have to come up with some "truly democratic ideas" before they could propose them. Their problem at the moment (and with a few posters here) is that all they will do is say "Junta therefore constitution bad", when 90% of this constitution will most likely be exactly the same as the 1997 "peoples" constitution. To be more effective, they need to be specific about their criticisms and explain why they don't like particular sections. Of course they could do that with out being involved, but I think it would be more effective for them if they were involved. 90% the same or not, you know that the effect of changes is not based on percentages of text / articles in the document. A very small change in the last constitution effectively gave military/royalists control of the senate and allowed them to potentially block any votes they did not like. That, along with the slight changes that made the courts permanent tools of the military/royalists, allowed them to basically dissolve their opposition's parties twice and remove two of their elected PMs. With the intervention of the generals, they managed to change the governments undemocratically in 2008 and 2014... The 2014 'intervention' will lead to a constitution (in my opinion) which will ensure not only that these anti-democratic levers remain and are strengthened, but the actual manner of defining representation will effectively disenfranchise huge swaths of the electorate and allow the democrats or other pawns of the military/royalist block to actually win an 'election' for the first time since the 97 constitution. Exactly how the 'NCPO' will decide to implement that is not clear, but that result is the only thing worth actually waiting for. The rest of the hand-waving about reforms and corruption is a distraction, nothing more. (BTW, 'junta therefore constitution bad' is a simple shorthand to reflect the reality of actions being taken and the intentions of the 'NCPO'. They have the final word on any document - as defined in the interim constitution - and the 'NCPO' is constantly restating its authority... ) "90% the same or not, you know that the effect of changes is not based on percentages of text / articles in the document." "To be more effective, they need to be specific about their criticisms and explain why they don't like particular sections. " As I said, be specific, rather than "junta therefore constitution bad". If the constitution is 90% the same as the 1997 constitution, it can't be all bad. Focus on the bits that are bad. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikemac Posted November 24, 2014 Share Posted November 24, 2014 so you think that PTP and UDD should participate? As for a political strategy, since participation is purely a political question, if they do, it will of course not impact the result. The best they can hope for is a stage from which to propose truly democratic ideas without (such) a threat of mini-vacations in non-disclosed military resorts. But the 2 groups can do the same without participating and without any implication of validating the process which they must view as illegitimate. It's a mixed bag either way. They would have to come up with some "truly democratic ideas" before they could propose them. Their problem at the moment (and with a few posters here) is that all they will do is say "Junta therefore constitution bad", when 90% of this constitution will most likely be exactly the same as the 1997 "peoples" constitution. To be more effective, they need to be specific about their criticisms and explain why they don't like particular sections. Of course they could do that with out being involved, but I think it would be more effective for them if they were involved. They may come with dangerous and undemocratic ideas such as "one man, one vote" and "elected members" The key part there is "come up with". Doesn't Thailand already have one man, one vote? Not quite - one man, one 500 baht. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scorecard Posted November 24, 2014 Share Posted November 24, 2014 <script type='text/javascript'>window.mod_pagespeed_start = Number(new Date());</script> Same old rhetoric from the yellow dem junta supporters.Not everybody hi Thailand that is anti junta is a red supporter .An election under the constitution was called legally the yellow dems stopped the people from voting and not all of them were either dem or PTP supporters yet they were denied their right to cast a vote.Didn't see the military protecting their rights.No but we did hear from the self proclaimed peoples champion that the coup had been planned months before it happened.That's why he is out of the picture and and pretending to be a monk because of letting that little gem out of the bag. "same old rhetoric" no further comment needed. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HarryZelter Posted November 24, 2014 Share Posted November 24, 2014 In Thailand, Power Comes With Help From Skype Just in case any of you are interested in who is boycotting the process. http://www.nytimes.com/2013/01/30/world/asia/thaksin-shinawatra-of-thailand-wields-influence-from-afar.html?pagewanted=all&_r=0 An article which is almost two tears old, and has no mention of "boycotting" is entirely irrelevant to this discussion. @ Tigermonkey - I noticed your comment was "liked" by Fab4, who posted a link today to an article which was published on WED,11 JULY 2007 which was also irrelevant to this discussion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tigermonkey Posted November 24, 2014 Share Posted November 24, 2014 An article which is almost two tears old, and has no mention of "boycotting" is entirely irrelevant to this discussion. @ Tigermonkey - I noticed your comment was "liked" by Fab4, who posted a link today to an article which was published on WED,11 JULY 2007 which was also irrelevant to this discussion. Thank you. I shall try to maintain more strict control over my 'likers'. Perhaps you can give some pointers regarding the best way to exercise such control. You don't have to do that, nobody really cares who likes your posts, but they are a pretty good indication of the type of comments you are making. Myself, I would be ashamed if a hypocritical troll liked anything I posted. Your logic is laughable. You say that " nobody really cares who likes your posts", and yet this is the second post that you have made trying to condemn me, or as you say make me "ashamed", because someone liked my post. In your convoluted logic, I am guilty ( although I am not quite sure of what) by association. ? Stop trying to turn neutral posters into enemies - you have enough already. You should be seeking the path to 'happiness'. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikemac Posted November 24, 2014 Share Posted November 24, 2014 My "enemies" are red/Shin supporters, Thai bashers and trolls. Doubt if I will lose any sleep over that. And get your facts straight, I did not condemn you, even if you saw it that way, and I said "Myself, I would be ashamed if a hypocritical troll liked anything I posted."..............did not say that you should be ashamed. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
monkeycountry Posted November 24, 2014 Share Posted November 24, 2014 If PTP and the red shirts really stays away from the charter drafting, it is great news for the rest of Thailand, and for the charter. It will also be a lot shorter this way, as PTP and the red shirts' main contribution would likely have been a hundred irrelevant pages about amnesty for Thaksin. For the first time ever I agree with PTP and the red shirts. Please stay as far away as possible, both from the charter - and from the rest of us, thank you. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MJP Posted November 24, 2014 Share Posted November 24, 2014 A flame post has been removed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tbthailand Posted November 24, 2014 Share Posted November 24, 2014 They would have to come up with some "truly democratic ideas" before they could propose them. Their problem at the moment (and with a few posters here) is that all they will do is say "Junta therefore constitution bad", when 90% of this constitution will most likely be exactly the same as the 1997 "peoples" constitution. To be more effective, they need to be specific about their criticisms and explain why they don't like particular sections. Of course they could do that with out being involved, but I think it would be more effective for them if they were involved. 90% the same or not, you know that the effect of changes is not based on percentages of text / articles in the document. A very small change in the last constitution effectively gave military/royalists control of the senate and allowed them to potentially block any votes they did not like. That, along with the slight changes that made the courts permanent tools of the military/royalists, allowed them to basically dissolve their opposition's parties twice and remove two of their elected PMs. With the intervention of the generals, they managed to change the governments undemocratically in 2008 and 2014... The 2014 'intervention' will lead to a constitution (in my opinion) which will ensure not only that these anti-democratic levers remain and are strengthened, but the actual manner of defining representation will effectively disenfranchise huge swaths of the electorate and allow the democrats or other pawns of the military/royalist block to actually win an 'election' for the first time since the 97 constitution. Exactly how the 'NCPO' will decide to implement that is not clear, but that result is the only thing worth actually waiting for. The rest of the hand-waving about reforms and corruption is a distraction, nothing more. (BTW, 'junta therefore constitution bad' is a simple shorthand to reflect the reality of actions being taken and the intentions of the 'NCPO'. They have the final word on any document - as defined in the interim constitution - and the 'NCPO' is constantly restating its authority... ) "90% the same or not, you know that the effect of changes is not based on percentages of text / articles in the document." "To be more effective, they need to be specific about their criticisms and explain why they don't like particular sections. " As I said, be specific, rather than "junta therefore constitution bad". If the constitution is 90% the same as the 1997 constitution, it can't be all bad. Focus on the bits that are bad. Be specific, yes. 90% the same, therefore it can't be all bad, no. the relative democratic nature of an altered constitution is not directly proportional to the quantity of changed text. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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