Martial the burning off season

[Bill97]

How can you be sure?

[khwaibah]

"I am sure that you, like all other people here spouting the same, have no real knowledge about what part of the pollution is generated locally here in the north, and what blows in from other countries. "

​Follow the the season hear http://aqicn.org/city/thailand/chiangmai/city-hall/ and read this

http://asiafoundation.org/in-asia/2014/03/26/transboundary-pollution-in-northern-thailand-causes-dangerous-levels-of-smog/

"Perhaps most critically, pollution sources extend beyond Thailand’s borders. GISTDA (Geo-Informatics and Space Technology Development Agency) satellite monitoring shows clusters of burning “hotspots” across peninsular Southeast Asia. Chiang Mai in particular experiences drastic effects because of its location in the Chiang Mai-Lamphun valley, where smoke from neighboring Myanmar and Laos is prone to settle.

With its transboundary sources, Chiang Mai’s haze problem requires international cooperation. ASEAN member countries have made joint efforts in monitoring, preventing, and mitigating transboundary haze since 1997. In addition to a Regional Haze Action Plan, ASEAN member states adopted the ASEAN Agreement on Transboundary Haze Pollution in 2003. More recently, ASEAN has introduced simulation exercises, management strategies, and zero-burning best practices."

[Awk]

"I am sure that you, like all other people here spouting the same, have no real knowledge about what part of the pollution is generated locally here in the north, and what blows in from other countries. "

​Follow the the season hear http://aqicn.org/city/thailand/chiangmai/city-hall/ and read this

http://asiafoundation.org/in-asia/2014/03/26/transboundary-pollution-in-northern-thailand-causes-dangerous-levels-of-smog/

"Perhaps most critically, pollution sources extend beyond Thailand’s borders. GISTDA (Geo-Informatics and Space Technology Development Agency) satellite monitoring shows clusters of burning “hotspots” across peninsular Southeast Asia. Chiang Mai in particular experiences drastic effects because of its location in the Chiang Mai-Lamphun valley, where smoke from neighboring Myanmar and Laos is prone to settle.

With its transboundary sources, Chiang Mai’s haze problem requires international cooperation. ASEAN member countries have made joint efforts in monitoring, preventing, and mitigating transboundary haze since 1997. In addition to a Regional Haze Action Plan, ASEAN member states adopted the ASEAN Agreement on Transboundary Haze Pollution in 2003. More recently, ASEAN has introduced simulation exercises, management strategies, and zero-burning best practices."

Thank you. I have read it, but don't see why you think that asiafoundation article validates your point in any way. The author states that "The pollution’s sources go beyond farming. Accidental forest and grass fires during this hot, dry season are among the primary sources of smoke." and only that "Perhaps most critically, pollution sources extend beyond Thailand’s borders."

I don't see anyone disputing that the sources of pollution are perhaps not local only. What there is, as far as I know, no reason to claim is that "the majority of the pollution you will have starting about February comes from outside Thailand", as you and others do. That is in my opinion a wholly unfounded claim to make about something which it would be quite hard to measure, and something only for people highly qualified in those fields.

Think about it. In the whole north of Thailand there will be an enormous amount of burning at that time. How would you know that even half of the pollution you breath in here at that time comes from abroad? How would you measure that? Surly that is not a trivial thing to measure.

[jobin]

Well, wait a minute Smith. I can't read Thai so i have no idea what's going thru the local's minds regarding the burning season, if indeed the newspapers give any news on this topic. On Thai bulletin boards, like this one, do Thai folks get all up in arms over the smoky time of year and demand the Army get off their a** and capture the culprits? I believe the vast majority of expats here are quite ignorant of many local concerns. A monk one day, at his wat, asked of me what i thought CM's biggest problems was. I replied auto air pollution. He said that yes, it was terrible. But he didn't quite say that he also thought the same: the biggest problem.

When i was playing golf recently in Hang Dong i could look north and see the murky brown cloud hoovering over our fair CM. The brown cloud of crappy air spewed out by the autos, buses, motos, etc. Bad stuff too, harmful for sure. I bring up local made air pollution, made by you and me, as more amenable to solution as opposed to the temporary field burning, some hundreds of km away. Yes, think global, but act local.

Do you drive a car or big van Smith? Or maybe you are old skool and tool around on a Harley Hog. I'm not concerned if in your corner of the world my name is mud but ask if you personally are causing a bias in your kids against mr/ms jobin. And was the deleted emoticon some threat of violence, like a knuckle sandwich? Hope not. Don't like violence, and it usually solves nothing. Wish i had a nice garden, might make me more agreeable, to some.

[Floater 7]

One big reason I didn't settle in Chiang Mai. The air in Pattaya much nicer. Especially with an ocean breeze.

[Mapguy]

Please see pinned thread above.

[Mudcrab]

You better be prepared to declare war on all of South East Asia as all the surrounding countries are the real culprits.

Sure Thai farmers would never do something like burning their land to make it ready for the next crops, blame it on the Burmese!

The point is that Northern Thailand is surrounded by other countries doing the same kind of burning. Stop it here and there will still be a smoky season anyway as the wind carries it all over the area.

Your comment is similar to many climate change arguments - we're not going to do anything about it because others aren't doing anything which leaves us nowhere.

After the smoke haze from Indonesia that engulfed Singapore and Malaysia last year pressure might be brought to bear through ASEAN to bring in some form of control.

Also China is starting to take action on climate control and they do carry a big stick.

The Chinese PM announced at the G20 forum in Brisbane that they will continue to build coal fired power stations and other industrial infrastructure etc and expect to be at the peak of their emissions by 2030.

They are certainly taking action....in the form of an extended middle finger to the tree huggers.

[Ulysses G.]

One big reason I didn't settle in Chiang Mai. The air in Pattaya much nicer. Especially with an ocean breeze.

The nightlife is better too, but I prefer living here.

[elgordo38]

So its just a list of excuses.

A bit like voting then.....my single vote wont make any difference.

Lame and weak.

The Govt need to grow some balls.

Not lame and not making an excuse for Thailand but everyone thinks that if Thailand stops their burning then Chiang Mai air will magically clear. Chiang Mai is in a geographically location thats has always attracted this pollution. This has been documented by man from the earliest settlers of Chiang Mai. As for as growing some cojones I could add another 100 items to the list which would all come out above the air pollution.

Are you saying that if all burning off could be stopped in the north west of Thailand there would be no improvement in air quality in Chiang Mai?

You got a Bingo

[davemos]

Perhaps the farmers should be shown the benefits of compost

[elgordo38]

India is going more heavily into coal strip mining so get your affairs in order we are all goners.

[biggles45]

GF and I were in CM last year in the burn off time and it took her a couple of months to get her lungs and breathing back to normal. She says she would never go there again at that time

[eastcanje]

You better be prepared to declare war on all of South East Asia as all the surrounding countries are the real culprits.

That's true, obviously.

Seasonal burning is part of the agricultural cycle in organic farming, and it has been going on since prehistoric times.

The only solution is to let agro-business destroy family farming and impose their chemical intensive methods.

Smoke haze is a regional problem, not just local. In places like Sumatra and Borneo it is also related to land clearing for plantations, but here in Northern Thailand it is mostly done by farmers working small plots of land.

Growing up in the Caribbean, I remember the sugar cane fields were also burnt every season. The flames cleared the foliage which would have hampered free passage to harvest the sugar canes, got rid of rattlesnakes, scorpions and other creatures which might have attacked the harvesters, and supposedly, made the sugar content of the canes better.

We knew to close our windows when the fields were burning!

Admittedly, in those days, pollution and global warming were not the watchwords they are today.

[Nuddy]

I hate the smokey season

I said to one of my Aussie mates today over a beer that living in Thailand is detrimental to your health.

The smoke at least makes it so.

[pb1936]

I live in the CM area. During the burning season, entire mountain ranges are set ablaze every year - you can see the massive dark clouds of smoke spreading for miles.

In my mind there is no doubt that our smoke problem is produced by this burning and excuses which point the finger at neighbouring countries are rubbish.

Thailand has no concern for the environment.

[Ulysses G.]

No one is blaming other countries any more than Thailand, but there is no getting way from the fact that they are just as bad and contribute a lot to the pollution here.

[Saan]

The point is that Northern Thailand is surrounded by other countries doing the same kind of burning. Stop it here and there will still be a smoky season anyway as the wind carries it all over the area.

Your comment is similar to many climate change arguments - we're not going to do anything about it because others aren't doing anything which leaves us nowhere.

After the smoke haze from Indonesia that engulfed Singapore and Malaysia last year pressure might be brought to bear through ASEAN to bring in some form of control.

Also China is starting to take action on climate control and they do carry a big stick.

I disagree with you on this. He is not arguing about doing nothing he is just being honest with what is really happening. If you want to do some thing about some thing know what it is you are fighting.

Hundreds of years of tradition and countries that fight forest fires with a man holding a garden hose hooked up to nothing. What is needed is international cooperation as well as showing the farmers different ways to clear the fields.

This article was started as an attempt to take a cheap shot at the Martial law. Wait until the burning season it might already be in the planning.

As usual you are wrong. I suppose someone like you who has an opinion on just about anything is bound to be often wrong.

I was saying that the advent of martial law might be utilized to do something about the annual smoke problem.

Keep it up Northern Dolly and you will get your gold star for 5000 posts soon.

[khwaibah]

Campaign launched to solve annual smoke pollution

Burning in villages around Chiang Mai are contributors to the haze that blankets the city and the province every year in the dry season. The government is launching a campaign to tackle this problem before the 2015 season hits. Despite the recent rains, villagers in Doi Saket still light smoky fires that fill the air in this photo submitted from a reader recently.

Chiang Mai Mail reporters

Chiang Mai Governor Suriya Prasatbuntitya and President of the Provincial Administration Organization Boonlert Buranupakorn launched a campaign that hopes to tackle the annual haze that blankets Chiang Mai on November 4, 2014.

The campaign aims to see the participation and cooperation of all sectors of the community, both public and private and coordinate the roles of various agencies to prevent fires and solve the smog problem. The Governor noted that this annual problem occurs in the dry season because high pressure air from China causes very dry conditions in the North and that this dry weather coupled with farmers burning fields, people burning rubbish and road sides and fires on the mountains combine to create a mass of haze over the region.

The provincial government is launching an education campaign and is also asking for cooperation from the private sector, networks, organizations and civil society to initiate their own education campaign to prevent and solving smog problems in Chiang Mai. The government is setting up ad hoc center to coordinate personnel and equipment at the provincial, district and local levels. Additionally the government is preparing personnel, machinery, tools and equipment for the Disaster Prevention and Mitigation Office Chiang Mai, as well as enlisting people from the civilian, police, military, local government, private sector non-profit organizations and various volunteers to set up teams in each sub-district.

http://www.chiangmai-mail.com/current/news.shtml

[Dante99]

I live in the CM area. During the burning season, entire mountain ranges are set ablaze every year - you can see the massive dark clouds of smoke spreading for miles.

In my mind there is no doubt that our smoke problem is produced by this burning and excuses which point the finger at neighbouring countries are rubbish.

Thailand has no concern for the environment.

Precisely where are these mountain ranges that are set ablaze every year?

[MrBrad]

As I mentioned earlier, the burning appears to be more intense in the evenings. Here it is, 8:30, and my eyes and nose are not liking the quality of the air in my neighborhood just north of Chiang Mai. For those keeping score, I cast my vote for it certainly being a local phenomenon. If it were regional or larger, one would think that the heavy smoke smell would be evident all day long, not just in the evenings.

But, of course, a lot of local fires combined over a vast area (like several countries) makes a regional and global problem.

[T_Dog]

The field burning is not too bad, but once they start burning the forests for mushroom growth, you can be sure of a rapid worsening of air quality.

[off road pat]

You better be prepared to declare war on all of South East Asia as all the surrounding countries are the real culprits.

Sure Thai farmers would never do something like burning their land to make it ready for the next crops, blame it on the Burmese!

In fact, a couple of years ago, a Minister blamed it on the Burmese,...and publicly said Thais would not do this.....

as I was driving along the road from Mae sot to Mea Sariang....I could not count the fields that were burning....there were so many....!!!!

[media]

You better be prepared to declare war on all of South East Asia as all the surrounding countries are the real culprits.

You have a point there! I always thought that the pollution was caused locally but it would logical that it could be coming over from other near by countries.

I have to say though it always P***ses me off when im in CM and acrtually stopped me from ever wanting to stay up there for some time...

[kerrysum]

Gee what would one think? They want more production, than years previous... Have they solved the rice scheme yet? Oh I forgot, they will sell bonds now to help, correct? Something smells smokey to me?

[mat999]

I've not read any replies but I believe the army should get off their butts and patrol the countryside. Anyone caught lighting a fire should be shot or locked up for 15 years. Lighting fires is indirectly causing deaths, hence my tough stance.

[Thailand]

I've not read any replies but I believe the army should get off their butts and patrol the countryside. Anyone caught lighting a fire should be shot or locked up for 15 years. Lighting fires is indirectly causing deaths, hence my tough stance.

The landowners are the ones who should be fined, with very stiff penalties.

Problem is many of the landowners are the powers that be so unlikely they would penalise themselves.

[Mapguy]

I've not read any replies but I believe the army should get off their butts and patrol the countryside. Anyone caught lighting a fire should be shot or locked up for 15 years. Lighting fires is indirectly causing deaths, hence my tough stance.

The landowners are the ones who should be fined, with very stiff penalties.

Problem is many of the landowners are the powers that be so unlikely they would penalise themselves.

Change is difficult. Please see some more on the ensuing post on the relevant pinned thread above.

Poster "Thailand" (Does he have his own personal anthem given his handle !! ) has nailed ONE of the significant changes that needs to be made to bring about change: significant fines levied upon landowners. But there is much more to it, as well.

Please see more about this on the pinned thread above.

[Saan]

I've not read any replies but I believe the army should get off their butts and patrol the countryside. Anyone caught lighting a fire should be shot or locked up for 15 years. Lighting fires is indirectly causing deaths, hence my tough stance.

The landowners are the ones who should be fined, with very stiff penalties.

Problem is many of the landowners are the powers that be so unlikely they would penalise themselves.

Change is difficult. Please see some more on the ensuing post on the relevant pinned thread above.

Poster "Thailand" (Does he have his own personal anthem given his handle !! ) has nailed ONE of the significant changes that needs to be made to bring about change: significant fines levied upon landowners. But there is much more to it, as well.

Please see more about this on the pinned thread above.

The problem is how do you fine the poor subsistence farmers that cause many of these fires. It is a bit hard to get money from people who have nothing. Shooting or locking up for 15 years seems a little harsh. Maybe the government could introduce the lash. Six on the bottom used to pull me into line when I was at school.

[Thailand]

I've not read any replies but I believe the army should get off their butts and patrol the countryside. Anyone caught lighting a fire should be shot or locked up for 15 years. Lighting fires is indirectly causing deaths, hence my tough stance.

The landowners are the ones who should be fined, with very stiff penalties.

Problem is many of the landowners are the powers that be so unlikely they would penalise themselves.

Change is difficult. Please see some more on the ensuing post on the relevant pinned thread above.

Poster "Thailand" (Does he have his own personal anthem given his handle !! ) has nailed ONE of the significant changes that needs to be made to bring about change: significant fines levied upon landowners. But there is much more to it, as well.

Please see more about this on the pinned thread above.

Edited November 26, 2014 by Thailand

[SilverBeast]

I've not read any replies but I believe the army should get off their butts and patrol the countryside. Anyone caught lighting a fire should be shot or locked up for 15 years. Lighting fires is indirectly causing deaths, hence my tough stance.

Well aren't you just a top notch Assh***. Wanting to execute people for the crime of trying to farm and feed their families.