The EU. Failed experiment continues.

[kingalfred]

Another massive black hole in its finances as the EU socialist bureacratic failure continues on life support.The Uk really needs to escape the madness before its ultimate collapse. http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/europe/eu/11255493/UK-faces-34bn-bill-for-blackhole-in-EU-budget.html

[kieran2698]

The EU experiment, as you put it, was dreamed up by Churchill at the end of WWII, the concept being to prevent another war like the previous 2. Seems to be a success so far.

By the way, the global financial crisis is just that, global. The UK has done badly due to their insane fiscal policies not due to the EU who repeatedly warned them to change, which they eventually did but far too late.

Wouldn't you be concerned by the massive loss of revenue that leaving the EU would mean? No one in Europe is going to choose the same product with an import duty on top over one that is EU produced and therefore cheaper. Instant loss of revenue from 240 billion of EU exports plus import duty to pay on the 300 billion of EU imports, not a good idea, hence why no politicians who actually have a chance in power will offer a referendum.

Edited December 5, 2014 by kieran2698

[i claudius]

So when can we leave?

[lungbing]

The reason why no politicians who actually have a chance in power will offer a referendum is because they voters may decide to get out of the EU and thus deprive the aforementioned politicians of a cosy bolt-hole when they fail in politics. For a good example of that see the Kinnocks. And Clegg too who has an EU pension.

If the EU start slapping import duty on UK goods then as we buy a huge amount from them, we just do the same.

And the old arguement about being outside looking in and thus being unable to affect the rules won't fly either.

And that's because with 27 countries the chance of the Uk changing the rules to something we want is next to zero.

The rest of Europe loathe us, except when they have their begging bowl out.

[kieran2698]

The reason why no politicians who actually have a chance in power will offer a referendum is because they voters may decide to get out of the EU and thus deprive the aforementioned politicians of a cosy bolt-hole when they fail in politics. For a good example of that see the Kinnocks. And Clegg too who has an EU pension.

If the EU start slapping import duty on UK goods then as we buy a huge amount from them, we just do the same.

And the old arguement about being outside looking in and thus being unable to affect the rules won't fly either.

And that's because with 27 countries the chance of the Uk changing the rules to something we want is next to zero.

The rest of Europe loathe us, except when they have their begging bowl out.

No, the readon they won't offer a referendum is the economic consequence and what it would do to all their rich mates.

You have failed to understans the duty issue. A duty exporting to the EU loses us business, an import duty increases costs for all. Its a lose lose situation.

As for the EU making the rules, we have lost a few votes by electing ukip to not even bother showing up for work and incredibly some very silly people actually fall for their rhetoric.

[kieran2698]

The reason why no politicians who actually have a chance in power will offer a referendum is because they voters may decide to get out of the EU and thus deprive the aforementioned politicians of a cosy bolt-hole when they fail in politics. For a good example of that see the Kinnocks. And Clegg too who has an EU pension.

If the EU start slapping import duty on UK goods then as we buy a huge amount from them, we just do the same.

And the old arguement about being outside looking in and thus being unable to affect the rules won't fly either.

And that's because with 27 countries the chance of the Uk changing the rules to something we want is next to zero.

The rest of Europe loathe us, except when they have their begging bowl out.

No, the readon they won't offer a referendum is the economic consequence and what it would do to all their rich mates.

You have failed to understans the duty issue. A duty exporting to the EU loses us business, an import duty increases costs for all. Its a lose lose situation.

As for the EU making the rules, we have lost a few votes by electing ukip to not even bother showing up for work and incredibly some very silly people actually fall for their rhetoric.

[Naam]

The reason why no politicians who actually have a chance in power will offer a referendum is because they voters may decide to get out of the EU and thus deprive the aforementioned politicians of a cosy bolt-hole when they fail in politics. For a good example of that see the Kinnocks. And Clegg too who has an EU pension.

If the EU start slapping import duty on UK goods then as we buy a huge amount from them, we just do the same.

And the old arguement about being outside looking in and thus being unable to affect the rules won't fly either.

And that's because with 27 countries the chance of the Uk changing the rules to something we want is next to zero.

The rest of Europe loathe us, except when they have their begging bowl out.

BINGO! the EU would cease exist without the generous donations from the [not so] United Kingdom and Northern Ireland.

[kieran2698]

The reason why no politicians who actually have a chance in power will offer a referendum is because they voters may decide to get out of the EU and thus deprive the aforementioned politicians of a cosy bolt-hole when they fail in politics. For a good example of that see the Kinnocks. And Clegg too who has an EU pension.

If the EU start slapping import duty on UK goods then as we buy a huge amount from them, we just do the same.

And the old arguement about being outside looking in and thus being unable to affect the rules won't fly either.

And that's because with 27 countries the chance of the Uk changing the rules to something we want is next to zero.

The rest of Europe loathe us, except when they have their begging bowl out.

BINGO! the EU would cease exist without the generous donations from the [not so] United Kingdom and Northern Ireland.

You recon without the 4.7 billion more that the UK pay than receive the whole 129 billion euro economy will simply cease to exist? 3.6% of the economy would go, nothing else.

[kingalfred]

The EU experiment, as you put it, was dreamed up by Churchill at the end of WWII, the concept being to prevent another war like the previous 2. Seems to be a success so far.

By the way, the global financial crisis is just that, global. The UK has done badly due to their insane fiscal policies not due to the EU who repeatedly warned them to change, which they eventually did but far too late.

Wouldn't you be concerned by the massive loss of revenue that leaving the EU would mean? No one in Europe is going to choose the same product with an import duty on top over one that is EU produced and therefore cheaper. Instant loss of revenue from 240 billion of EU exports plus import duty to pay on the 300 billion of EU imports, not a good idea, hence why no politicians who actually have a chance in power will offer a referendum.

Where to start? The EU is inefficient, over bureaucratic,over regulated and to believe any different is dangerous.But the most damning indictment is its inability to change, especially since the "global banking crisis". I know what Churchill envisaged, whether it was a political,economic,federal EU is very doubtful and even if he did most EU citizens didnt. Your implication that the Uk has to be part of this "failed experiment" to thrive economically is so ridiculous its not worthy of discussion.EU countries can and will trade with it and at the same time greater trade links will and are being made with new more lucrative markets. Let the massive bureaucratic Brussels trough continue its downward spiral without the UK having to pay for its waste,Failed France and the other backward economies can pay for it. Edited December 6, 2014 by kingalfred

[kingalfred]

Duplicated

Edited December 6, 2014 by kingalfred

[kieran2698]

The EU experiment, as you put it, was dreamed up by Churchill at the end of WWII, the concept being to prevent another war like the previous 2. Seems to be a success so far.

By the way, the global financial crisis is just that, global. The UK has done badly due to their insane fiscal policies not due to the EU who repeatedly warned them to change, which they eventually did but far too late.

Wouldn't you be concerned by the massive loss of revenue that leaving the EU would mean? No one in Europe is going to choose the same product with an import duty on top over one that is EU produced and therefore cheaper. Instant loss of revenue from 240 billion of EU exports plus import duty to pay on the 300 billion of EU imports, not a good idea, hence why no politicians who actually have a chance in power will offer a referendum.

Where to start? The EU is inefficient, over bureaucratic,over regulated and to believe any different is dangerous.But the most damning indictment is its inability to change, especially since the "global banking crisis". I know what Churchill envisaged, whether it was a political,economic,federal EU is very doubtful and even if he did most EU citizens didnt. Your implication that the Uk has to be part of this "failed experiment" to thrive economically is so ridiculous its not worthy of discussion.EU countries can and will trade with it and at the same time greater trade links will and are being made with new more lucrative markets. Let the massive bureaucratic Brussels trough continue its downward spiral without the UK having to pay for its waste,Failed France and the other backward economies can pay for it.

You don't think Churchill was aware of the already planned EEC when he made that speech? Well, the historians disagree with you.

I agree regarding the bureaucracy of the EU, a reform is certainly needed.

Regarding loss of trade, I suggest you do some reading. It would mean an immediate loss of a scale we simply could not afford at the moment, perhaps in the future buy certainly not now.

As for France, the EU are constantly criticising their ridiculous policies and their failure is entirely their own doing. The same can be said for the UK, a failure to follow EU advice and adjust fiscal policy until too late has resulted in the UK failing to recover like the successful countries.

Presumably you do not blame Germany's success on the EU.

Edited December 6, 2014 by kieran2698

[Naam]

The reason why no politicians who actually have a chance in power will offer a referendum is because they voters may decide to get out of the EU and thus deprive the aforementioned politicians of a cosy bolt-hole when they fail in politics. For a good example of that see the Kinnocks. And Clegg too who has an EU pension.

If the EU start slapping import duty on UK goods then as we buy a huge amount from them, we just do the same.

And the old arguement about being outside looking in and thus being unable to affect the rules won't fly either.

And that's because with 27 countries the chance of the Uk changing the rules to something we want is next to zero.

The rest of Europe loathe us, except when they have their begging bowl out.

BINGO! the EU would cease exist without the generous donations from the [not so] United Kingdom and Northern Ireland.

You recon without the 4.7 billion more that the UK pay than receive the whole 129 billion euro economy will simply cease to exist? 3.6% of the economy would go, nothing else.

you seem to have a small problem detecting irony and/or sarcasm Sir

[kieran2698]

The reason why no politicians who actually have a chance in power will offer a referendum is because they voters may decide to get out of the EU and thus deprive the aforementioned politicians of a cosy bolt-hole when they fail in politics. For a good example of that see the Kinnocks. And Clegg too who has an EU pension.

If the EU start slapping import duty on UK goods then as we buy a huge amount from them, we just do the same.

And the old arguement about being outside looking in and thus being unable to affect the rules won't fly either.

And that's because with 27 countries the chance of the Uk changing the rules to something we want is next to zero.

The rest of Europe loathe us, except when they have their begging bowl out.

BINGO! the EU would cease exist without the generous donations from the [not so] United Kingdom and Northern Ireland.

You recon without the 4.7 billion more that the UK pay than receive the whole 129 billion euro economy will simply cease to exist? 3.6% of the economy would go, nothing else.

you seem to have a small problem detecting irony and/or sarcasm Sir

Sorry, I simply wasn't expecting such a high brow wit following the dross kipperesque responses.

[Naam]

BINGO! the EU would cease exist without the generous donations from the [not so] United Kingdom and Northern Ireland.

You recon without the 4.7 billion more that the UK pay than receive the whole 129 billion euro economy will simply cease to exist? 3.6% of the economy would go, nothing else.

you seem to have a small problem detecting irony and/or sarcasm Sir

Sorry, I simply wasn't expecting such a high brow wit following the dross kipperesque responses.

being a 'non-native' i am always grateful learning new English expressions. unfortunately i could not find the definition for "kipperesque".

[kieran2698]

BINGO! the EU would cease exist without the generous donations from the [not so] United Kingdom and Northern Ireland.

You recon without the 4.7 billion more that the UK pay than receive the whole 129 billion euro economy will simply cease to exist? 3.6% of the economy would go, nothing else.

you seem to have a small problem detecting irony and/or sarcasm Sir

Sorry, I simply wasn't expecting such a high brow wit following the dross kipperesque responses.

being a 'non-native' i am always grateful learning new English expressions. unfortunately i could not find the definition for "kipperesque".

It is a made up word in reference to ukip a political party whose populist policies include leaving the EU and covering women with a tablecloth while breastfeeding in public.

[kingalfred]

The EU experiment, as you put it, was dreamed up by Churchill at the end of WWII, the concept being to prevent another war like the previous 2. Seems to be a success so far.

By the way, the global financial crisis is just that, global. The UK has done badly due to their insane fiscal policies not due to the EU who repeatedly warned them to change, which they eventually did but far too late.

Wouldn't you be concerned by the massive loss of revenue that leaving the EU would mean? No one in Europe is going to choose the same product with an import duty on top over one that is EU produced and therefore cheaper. Instant loss of revenue from 240 billion of EU exports plus import duty to pay on the 300 billion of EU imports, not a good idea, hence why no politicians who actually have a chance in power will offer a referendum.

Where to start? The EU is inefficient, over bureaucratic,over regulated and to believe any different is dangerous.But the most damning indictment is its inability to change, especially since the "global banking crisis". I know what Churchill envisaged, whether it was a political,economic,federal EU is very doubtful and even if he did most EU citizens didnt. Your implication that the Uk has to be part of this "failed experiment" to thrive economically is so ridiculous its not worthy of discussion.EU countries can and will trade with it and at the same time greater trade links will and are being made with new more lucrative markets. Let the massive bureaucratic Brussels trough continue its downward spiral without the UK having to pay for its waste,Failed France and the other backward economies can pay for it.

You don't think Churchill was aware of the already planned EEC when he made that speech? Well, the historians disagree with you.

I agree regarding the bureaucracy of the EU, a reform is certainly needed.

Regarding loss of trade, I suggest you do some reading. It would mean an immediate loss of a scale we simply could not afford at the moment, perhaps in the future buy certainly not now.

As for France, the EU are constantly criticising their ridiculous policies and their failure is entirely their own doing. The same can be said for the UK, a failure to follow EU advice and adjust fiscal policy until too late has resulted in the UK failing to recover like the successful countries.

Presumably you do not blame Germany's success on the EU.

once again you are blind to the EU failings. It is a "federal socialist state" in everything but name. Harking back to an era that has been discredited and failed. Edited December 6, 2014 by kingalfred

[kieran2698]

The EU experiment, as you put it, was dreamed up by Churchill at the end of WWII, the concept being to prevent another war like the previous 2. Seems to be a success so far.

By the way, the global financial crisis is just that, global. The UK has done badly due to their insane fiscal policies not due to the EU who repeatedly warned them to change, which they eventually did but far too late.

Wouldn't you be concerned by the massive loss of revenue that leaving the EU would mean? No one in Europe is going to choose the same product with an import duty on top over one that is EU produced and therefore cheaper. Instant loss of revenue from 240 billion of EU exports plus import duty to pay on the 300 billion of EU imports, not a good idea, hence why no politicians who actually have a chance in power will offer a referendum.

Where to start? The EU is inefficient, over bureaucratic,over regulated and to believe any different is dangerous.But the most damning indictment is its inability to change, especially since the "global banking crisis". I know what Churchill envisaged, whether it was a political,economic,federal EU is very doubtful and even if he did most EU citizens didnt. Your implication that the Uk has to be part of this "failed experiment" to thrive economically is so ridiculous its not worthy of discussion.EU countries can and will trade with it and at the same time greater trade links will and are being made with new more lucrative markets. Let the massive bureaucratic Brussels trough continue its downward spiral without the UK having to pay for its waste,Failed France and the other backward economies can pay for it.

You don't think Churchill was aware of the already planned EEC when he made that speech? Well, the historians disagree with you.

I agree regarding the bureaucracy of the EU, a reform is certainly needed.

Regarding loss of trade, I suggest you do some reading. It would mean an immediate loss of a scale we simply could not afford at the moment, perhaps in the future buy certainly not now.

As for France, the EU are constantly criticising their ridiculous policies and their failure is entirely their own doing. The same can be said for the UK, a failure to follow EU advice and adjust fiscal policy until too late has resulted in the UK failing to recover like the successful countries.

Presumably you do not blame Germany's success on the EU.

once again you are blind to the EU failings. It is a "federal socialist state" in everything but name. Harking back to an era that has been discredited and failed.

Federal, maybe in the future. Socialist, you must be joking, either that or you have absolutely no idea what it means. It's an economic term that could never be used to describe the EU, unless of course by an American who freely mix Communist with socialist and apply the terms erroneously to any system which recognises the need for human rights.

[millwall_fan]

The EU, flawed as it is, is the only game in town for UK plc. Sure trade would continue, and tariffs will not be introduced if we left, as long as we joined the EEA (which we would) because the EU exports more to us than we do to them. But if we join the EEA we lose our say over EU policy and especially fiscal policy and without that say - or at least that blocking power, which we still have over major changes - the Germans and the French will gradually introduce fiscal legislation to our disadvantage. And the city of London contributes more to the British economy than North Sea oil.

Wake up Britain, don't let Rupert Murdoch persuade yo to leave!

[NeverSure]

Where to start? The EU is inefficient, over bureaucratic,over regulated and to believe any different is dangerous.But the most damning indictment is its inability to change, especially since the "global banking crisis". I know what Churchill envisaged, whether it was a political,economic,federal EU is very doubtful and even if he did most EU citizens didnt. Your implication that the Uk has to be part of this "failed experiment" to thrive economically is so ridiculous its not worthy of discussion.EU countries can and will trade with it and at the same time greater trade links will and are being made with new more lucrative markets. Let the massive bureaucratic Brussels trough continue its downward spiral without the UK having to pay for its waste,Failed France and the other backward economies can pay for it.

You don't think Churchill was aware of the already planned EEC when he made that speech? Well, the historians disagree with you.

I agree regarding the bureaucracy of the EU, a reform is certainly needed.

Regarding loss of trade, I suggest you do some reading. It would mean an immediate loss of a scale we simply could not afford at the moment, perhaps in the future buy certainly not now.

As for France, the EU are constantly criticising their ridiculous policies and their failure is entirely their own doing. The same can be said for the UK, a failure to follow EU advice and adjust fiscal policy until too late has resulted in the UK failing to recover like the successful countries.

Presumably you do not blame Germany's success on the EU.

once again you are blind to the EU failings. It is a "federal socialist state" in everything but name. Harking back to an era that has been discredited and failed.

Federal, maybe in the future. Socialist, you must be joking, either that or you have absolutely no idea what it means. It's an economic term that could never be used to describe the EU, unless of course by an American who freely mix Communist with socialist and apply the terms erroneously to any system which recognises the need for human rights.

Oh yes. Let's not miss a chance to criticize the US.

The UK needs a radical change. It is already farther in debt when figured as external debt per capita or debt as a ratio of GDP than the US which is also constantly mentioned. LINK LINK It also doesn't have the private economic engine to drive the economy that the US has.

Wanna talk more about the US? Citizens of the US have a lot more rights and freedoms than those in the UK do.

The UK's economy isn't recovering like some other countries and it and the EU are in fact socialist. They are also doomed to failure either by going down as a group or breaking up before it's too late.

[kieran2698]

Where to start? The EU is inefficient, over bureaucratic,over regulated and to believe any different is dangerous.But the most damning indictment is its inability to change, especially since the "global banking crisis". I know what Churchill envisaged, whether it was a political,economic,federal EU is very doubtful and even if he did most EU citizens didnt. Your implication that the Uk has to be part of this "failed experiment" to thrive economically is so ridiculous its not worthy of discussion.EU countries can and will trade with it and at the same time greater trade links will and are being made with new more lucrative markets. Let the massive bureaucratic Brussels trough continue its downward spiral without the UK having to pay for its waste,Failed France and the other backward economies can pay for it.

You don't think Churchill was aware of the already planned EEC when he made that speech? Well, the historians disagree with you.

I agree regarding the bureaucracy of the EU, a reform is certainly needed.

Regarding loss of trade, I suggest you do some reading. It would mean an immediate loss of a scale we simply could not afford at the moment, perhaps in the future buy certainly not now.

As for France, the EU are constantly criticising their ridiculous policies and their failure is entirely their own doing. The same can be said for the UK, a failure to follow EU advice and adjust fiscal policy until too late has resulted in the UK failing to recover like the successful countries.

Presumably you do not blame Germany's success on the EU.

once again you are blind to the EU failings. It is a "federal socialist state" in everything but name. Harking back to an era that has been discredited and failed.

Federal, maybe in the future. Socialist, you must be joking, either that or you have absolutely no idea what it means. It's an economic term that could never be used to describe the EU, unless of course by an American who freely mix Communist with socialist and apply the terms erroneously to any system which recognises the need for human rights.

Oh yes. Let's not miss a chance to criticize the US.

The UK needs a radical change. It is already farther in debt when figured as external debt per capita or debt as a ratio of GDP than the US which is also constantly mentioned. LINK LINK It also doesn't have the private economic engine to drive the economy that the US has.

Wanna talk more about the US? Citizens of the US have a lot more rights and freedoms than those in the UK do.

The UK's economy isn't recovering like some other countries and it and the EU are in fact socialist. They are also doomed to failure either by going down as a group or breaking up before it's too late.

The UK has a rather rapidly growing wealth disparity for a socialist state, wouldn't you say? There also seems to be rather a lot of benefits for the financial sector for a socialist state. That's because the UK hasn't made a socialist move in 50 years, only moves to remove them.

As for better rights in the us, such as what exactly? The UK has common law, by the way .

And by stating that Americans mix and miss use these yes I was not trying to be offensive, just stating a fact. Thanks for backing that one with some evidence. Lol

According to the IMF the USA's debt is a higher percentage of GDP than the UK's. But this is the case the world over, there is not a major economy in the world without a similar financial problem at the moment, hense why this is referred to as a global crisis.

Edited December 7, 2014 by kieran2698