Police scandal shows dire need for reform, public tells Dusit Poll

[davidmann]

start with a new uniform

[Muirton]

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Is the real motivation of the "cleanup" of this one police officer (Pongpat) and his family really fighting corruption?
It's very well know that the whole police force is corrupt. They could pick up anyone and make a case.
Is there's some reason why they choose this one?

Things can't be discussed here, but you can fight more information on international news websites.

Just a wild guess, but perhaps the reason they chose this one was because he was corrupt to the tune of more than a billion baht, and he was the head of the CIB. He apparently made his corruption too extreme and too hard to ignore. Why do folks want to make an Oliver Stone conspiracy out of this?

You are not yet in possession of facts known to almost all in the LOS. Go to websites I can't mention and you'll see there is indeed a "conspiracy". T.I.T.

I hesitate to ask, how the h-ll do you know what facts he is in possession of? Since you know everything, who was on the grassy knoll?

You have the problem backwards, surprise, surprise. It isn't what facts he is in possession of. It's what facts he isn't in possession of. And, before you vent again, he wouldn't write what he wrote if he knew what almost every adult in Thailand knows. Read what I write, ok?

[kriswillems]

We can't talk and we're just confusing each other. Is it useful to discuss this on a forum?

[Dogmatix]

"Fifty per cent said the assets confiscated from Pongpat and his group, such as priceless artifacts, must be returned to the state."

OK, and where do the other 50% think the confiscated assets should go to ...?

They have already gone to the same place as the assets in the safes that mysteriously turned out to be empty.

[OZEMADE]

The Military are the ones that had the arrest warrants issued by the courts and they, the Military are awaiting a heap more warrants to be issued when they do a bit more investigating into this and other matters.

I believe the Military should set up a Internal Investigation Unit (IIU) that has the Power to Investigate any Government body. They should have separate offices in each Provence and be able to link up to their internal branches. They should be given absolute power to investigate any and everyone. This head person should be picked from the military and he in turn pick his own investigating officers, one he can trust. They have been doing the work and so far have come up with the goods. Corrupt Prison Officials, Police, Government, etc the list goes on. They probably have stiff penalties for people employed by the Gov that are found to be corrupt in any way or form, it just has to be enforced.

[Orac]

The Military are the ones that had the arrest warrants issued by the courts and they, the Military are awaiting a heap more warrants to be issued when they do a bit more investigating into this and other matters.

I believe the Military should set up a Internal Investigation Unit (IIU) that has the Power to Investigate any Government body. They should have separate offices in each Provence and be able to link up to their internal branches. They should be given absolute power to investigate any and everyone. This head person should be picked from the military and he in turn pick his own investigating officers, one he can trust. They have been doing the work and so far have come up with the goods. Corrupt Prison Officials, Police, Government, etc the list goes on. They probably have stiff penalties for people employed by the Gov that are found to be corrupt in any way or form, it just has to be enforced.

Did you miss the bit when the military imposed martial law six months ago, seized power and imposed an interim constitution which basically says the law is what they say it is.

[OZEMADE]

The Military are the ones that had the arrest warrants issued by the courts and they, the Military are awaiting a heap more warrants to be issued when they do a bit more investigating into this and other matters.
I believe the Military should set up a Internal Investigation Unit (IIU) that has the Power to Investigate any Government body. They should have separate offices in each Provence and be able to link up to their internal branches. They should be given absolute power to investigate any and everyone. This head person should be picked from the military and he in turn pick his own investigating officers, one he can trust. They have been doing the work and so far have come up with the goods. Corrupt Prison Officials, Police, Government, etc the list goes on. They probably have stiff penalties for people employed by the Gov that are found to be corrupt in any way or form, it just has to be enforced.

Did you miss the bit when the military imposed martial law six months ago, seized power and imposed an interim constitution which basically says the law is what they say it is.

No I did not miss that I was here at the time and it happened on my Birthday 22 May 2014.

What I am talking about is a special branch being set up with goodies and no baddies. They should then become separate from the Military and have the power I mentioned above.

As a matter of interest, in the B/Post where it mentioned two others were arrested, it also states, the arrest warrants were issued by the Bangkok Military Court, not the Public Courts.

[bangrak]

This is not off topic! All the opposite as a matter of fact...

In a part of the World called 'Europe', in a period of time called 'the middle ages', some local 'leaders', by various means, gained control over large squats of land, and the people living on it, these 'landlords' regrouped in 'associations', by allegiance or dominance, their main concern was to protect the boundaries of their 'property', and the workforce living on it, 'also' (in fact the main reason of it all), they wanted to collect taxes, rights, excise, fines on 'their' territory, to establish and accrue their power and wealth. In order to achieve that, they needed a hoard of people to inforce the rules they had edicted, cashing in money, serving 'justice', ...waving swords. But, they didn't have the means to pay those many 'deputies', and, knowing from their own pasts, couldn't trust those not to steal a part of what 'belonged to' them. So, yes, they paid those 'deputies' some, insufficent, wages, and authorised them to 'complement' those, too low, wages by: taking on the land, collecting for their own, from the inhabitants, from the 'serfs' of the landlord. Etc., the story goes on.

Let me add that this 'system' lasted for centuries in 'Europe', in it's most gross and horrible, inhumane, sides till well in the 18th century, with right of life and dead for the 'lord' on 'his' people, and in a less evident, but insidious, way, till the 'industrial revolution''s trade unions of the late 19th century.

Well, this, old, system from the middle ages is still alive in Thailand today, injust, yes, most for 'the people', who are powerless against it, but also for those 'deputies' of the 'authorities', who are not paid half a decent wage, and therefore, in an ancient propagated and admitted logic, go on collecting from the 'general population', like in the centuries before, what they don't, can't get from their employers. Not officially, as it has been said not to be like that anymore, but in fact very much so, and with what other choice...?

Mind you, this exists, today, still, in most parts of the World: Southern and Eastern Europe, Central and South America, Africa, Asia, ...

So, what makes Thailand 'special' IMO? It is the way it is generalised, North, East, Center, South, at all, each, and every level, it touches every single peron wearing a uniform, white, sand, brown, green, blue. Why, how? Because Thailand, in that generalised 'bath' of corruption, has got into a state of 'deliquescence': no more Laws, no more Rules, not anything of a credible structure left (not even Buddhism!).

And I say: this situation will not, can not, change, without a national consensus of all real, true, Thais, coming up, all together, in one, single, powerfull wage, proclaming: 'Enough is enough, we won't take it anymore, this must, all, end, now!' The odd for this to happen while I'm still alive is very thin, considering what the des-education of the Thai masses has 'achieved', but not saying it, not repeating it, makes us all accomplice!

[MaxLee]

This is not off topic! All the opposite as a matter of fact...

In a part of the World called 'Europe', in a period of time called 'the middle ages', some local 'leaders', by various means, gained control over large squats of land, and the people living on it, these 'landlords' regrouped in 'associations', by allegiance or dominance, their main concern was to protect the boundaries of their 'property', and the workforce living on it, 'also' (in fact the main reason of it all), they wanted to collect taxes, rights, excise, fines on 'their' territory, to establish and accrue their power and wealth. In order to achieve that, they needed a hoard of people to inforce the rules they had edicted, cashing in money, serving 'justice', ...waving swords. But, they didn't have the means to pay those many 'deputies', and, knowing from their own pasts, couldn't trust those not to steal a part of what 'belonged to' them. So, yes, they paid those 'deputies' some, insufficent, wages, and authorised them to 'complement' those, too low, wages by: taking on the land, collecting for their own, from the inhabitants, from the 'serfs' of the landlord. Etc., the story goes on.

Let me add that this 'system' lasted for centuries in 'Europe', in it's most gross and horrible, inhumane, sides till well in the 18th century, with right of life and dead for the 'lord' on 'his' people, and in a less evident, but insidious, way, till the 'industrial revolution''s trade unions of the late 19th century.

Well, this, old, system from the middle ages is still alive in Thailand today, injust, yes, most for 'the people', who are powerless against it, but also for those 'deputies' of the 'authorities', who are not paid half a decent wage, and therefore, in an ancient propagated and admitted logic, go on collecting from the 'general population', like in the centuries before, what they don't, can't get from their employers. Not officially, as it has been said not to be like that anymore, but in fact very much so, and with what other choice...?

Mind you, this exists, today, still, in most parts of the World: Southern and Eastern Europe, Central and South America, Africa, Asia, ...

So, what makes Thailand 'special' IMO? It is the way it is generalised, North, East, Center, South, at all, each, and every level, it touches every single peron wearing a uniform, white, sand, brown, green, blue. Why, how? Because Thailand, in that generalised 'bath' of corruption, has got into a state of 'deliquescence': no more Laws, no more Rules, not anything of a credible structure left (not even Buddhism!).

And I say: this situation will not, can not, change, without a national consensus of all real, true, Thais, coming up, all together, in one, single, powerfull wage, proclaming: 'Enough is enough, we won't take it anymore, this must, all, end, now!' The odd for this to happen while I'm still alive is very thin, considering what the des-education of the Thai masses has 'achieved', but not saying it, not repeating it, makes us all accomplice!

That was the most beautiful post I've read today, I almost cried,.... there's much truth in it, fella,....

[Orac]

The Military are the ones that had the arrest warrants issued by the courts and they, the Military are awaiting a heap more warrants to be issued when they do a bit more investigating into this and other matters.

I believe the Military should set up a Internal Investigation Unit (IIU) that has the Power to Investigate any Government body. They should have separate offices in each Provence and be able to link up to their internal branches. They should be given absolute power to investigate any and everyone. This head person should be picked from the military and he in turn pick his own investigating officers, one he can trust. They have been doing the work and so far have come up with the goods. Corrupt Prison Officials, Police, Government, etc the list goes on. They probably have stiff penalties for people employed by the Gov that are found to be corrupt in any way or form, it just has to be enforced.

Did you miss the bit when the military imposed martial law six months ago, seized power and imposed an interim constitution which basically says the law is what they say it is.

No I did not miss that I was here at the time and it happened on my Birthday 22 May 2014.

What I am talking about is a special branch being set up with goodies and no baddies. They should then become separate from the Military and have the power I mentioned above.

As a matter of interest, in the B/Post where it mentioned two others were arrested, it also states, the arrest warrants were issued by the Bangkok Military Court, not the Public Courts.

If the 'goodies' were that easy to spot then Thailand would probably not be in the mess it is now.

[bangrak]

This makes me think back to when this whole 'Pongpat saga' broke lose, and the numerous comrades of the red brigade climbed on their barricade to tell us this was politically motivated, this was against the brass having known 'sympathies' for the Shins, and else from their sad routine blah-blah...

Well, I don't know whether many of them also gather information from other parts of the World, where LM is only a tobacco brand, but when they do, they probably are as much with a foot in the mouth as all those who saw in it the 'new powers' starting at last actions against the higher regions of the corruption pyramid...

While in the last 24 hours it could possibly have appeared to be part of a totally different 'ballgame'...

Nothing is ever what it seems to be, here! Don't forget it again...

[OZEMADE]

The Military are the ones that had the arrest warrants issued by the courts and they, the Military are awaiting a heap more warrants to be issued when they do a bit more investigating into this and other matters.

I believe the Military should set up a Internal Investigation Unit (IIU) that has the Power to Investigate any Government body. They should have separate offices in each Provence and be able to link up to their internal branches. They should be given absolute power to investigate any and everyone. This head person should be picked from the military and he in turn pick his own investigating officers, one he can trust. They have been doing the work and so far have come up with the goods. Corrupt Prison Officials, Police, Government, etc the list goes on. They probably have stiff penalties for people employed by the Gov that are found to be corrupt in any way or form, it just has to be enforced.

Did you miss the bit when the military imposed martial law six months ago, seized power and imposed an interim constitution which basically says the law is what they say it is.

No I did not miss that I was here at the time and it happened on my Birthday 22 May 2014.

What I am talking about is a special branch being set up with goodies and no baddies. They should then become separate from the Military and have the power I mentioned above.

As a matter of interest, in the B/Post where it mentioned two others were arrested, it also states, the arrest warrants were issued by the Bangkok Military Court, not the Public Courts.

If the 'goodies' were that easy to spot then Thailand would probably not be in the mess it is now.

Ahh but we cant look at the past, we must look at the present and future of Thailand and there is a new boy in town, who I must admit although a bit slow, has made a difference in the last 6 months.

Currently there are a heap running for cover.

Edited November 30, 2014 by OZEMADE

[GeckosDiving]

Is the real motivation of the "cleanup" of this one police officer (Pongpat) and his family really fighting corruption?

It's very well know that the whole police force is corrupt. They could pick up anyone and make a case.

Is there's some reason why they choose this one?

Things can't be discussed here, but you can fight more information on international news websites.

Just a wild guess, but perhaps the reason they chose this one was because he was corrupt to the tune of more than a billion baht, and he was the head of the CIB. He apparently made his corruption too extreme and too hard to ignore. Why do folks want to make an Oliver Stone conspiracy out of this?

Did you see the bank accounts of the other police officers and some army leaders? I must say they did pretty well with a 70K monthly income.

Everyone sits and complains when the boys in charge DO NOT go after the big boys. The moment they do, they start screaming conspiracy. What the hell! Just have to believe people love to complain for the sake of complaining.

so naive... go get yourself educated to find out what's really happening

Said by Mr. SEE ALL KNOW IT ALL.

[Cake Monster]

This guy Pongpat was probably targeted because he refused to share his ill gotton gains further up the chain, and was getting too greedy.

One thing is for sure, he is not the top player in all this corruption scandal.

[smileydude]

I think the level of corruption is due to about 50% internal and 50% external influences.

If reform were to be effective you would have to also be able to stop all of the meddling that occurs from politicians and the powers above.

I use to think that instating fewer but higher quality police officers coupled with decent salaries would lessen the corruption but if they still need to answer to all those requests and favours in exchange for promotions then its a lost cause.

[DekDaeng]

By next year, they will all be ratting each other out to save their own necks.

Ain't that going to be interesting to watch - but, best from a distance.

[DekDaeng]

When an organization is rife with corruption, a bottom-up and top-down reorganization is in order. Singapore took that direction in the 1960s and 70s.

Today, they are a model for the other ASEAN members.

How dare you suggest that Thailand look outside its borders for a role model!

But then again, at least they aren't whiteys.

[mikemac]

Alfred E. Newman said - What me worry? Thais are probably concerned because they weren't in on the take or because the heat is getting turned up on those who haven't been exposed yet. By next year, they will all be ratting each other out to save their own necks.

Much like the heroic redshirts did when some of them were busted. Talk about sing like canaries !

[Jim walker]

It takes a thief to catch a thief