Has Bush Made The World Safer Or More Dangerous?

[Thaiquila]

Since the attack on the US on Sept 11, 2001, George W Bush has taken certain bold actions. He is running on his war record. His domestic record is so dismal, even he knows he can't run on that. It is time for American voters to make a judgement on his performance.

Consider this:

1. Immediately after 911, international good will towards the US at a historic high. Now, after Bushs' reaction, international good will towards the US at a historic low.

2. International terrorists appear to be active and armed. The diversion into Iraq has appeared to give them time and money to regroup. The war against them appears to be failing. Evidence: Bali, Madrid, others.

3. Iraq before 911 not tied to Al Queda terrorists, and it had secure borders to keep out international terrorists. Iraq after Bush: on the verge of civil war, rampant with active international terrorists, insecure borders. Iraq not a terrorist issue before 911, but now is a terrorist issue after Bush. Moving backwards there.

Bush appears to be the master of the BIG LIE. He is running on the SUCCESS of his war on terror, when the reality is that his policies have been a MISERABLE FAILURE. He is clearly thinks the US people are stupid and afraid. He may be right.

Happily, there is now an alternative, and the US still has relatively free elections (Florida 2000 excepted).

[britmaveric]

Yawn! Well maybe if you keep repeating your misinformation continously you'll start believing the rubbish you write.

Amazes me the amount of Shi*te that comes from some of you yanks!

[Thaiquila]

Yawn! Well maybe if you keep repeating your misinformation continously you'll start believing the rubbish you write.

Amazes me the amount of Shi*te that comes from some of you yanks!

Well, you make some very well thought out points. Yeah, right.

If you disagree with my assertion, why don't you explain why you think Bushs' foreign policies have made the world safer?

[taxexile]

bush's policies havent made the slightest difference to the danger levels in the world.

muslim extremists will do their utmost to cause the maximum destruction and disruption in western societies and in any societies that are at odds with their far fetched beliefs.

muslim terrorism, fuelled by the frustration of having to live within the strict confines of a religion that makes it difficult if not impossible to achieve any kind of personal achievment, sees the west as having the freedoms and liberties that they would like to have. mullahs know that once muslim countries have these freedoms then the religion would be diluted and forgotten. and the all powerful mullahs would lose their power.(just as religion in the west takes a back seat to personal achievment and gain for most people)

read about religious wars and persecution in the 14th,15thand 16th centuries to get some idea of the mentality of the mullahs who stoke the flames of terrorism

in order to maintain the hold of the religion over the people the mullahs preach hatred for the ways of the west with the result being a fertile breeding ground for terrorism.

if they cant have the freedoms we have then they will seek to destroy our rights to those freedoms.

radical islam is not tolerant of the ways of the infidel and is a great danger to western democracy.

if the dangers of muslim terrorism are not taken seriously and stopped then they will surely succeed in taking us all back to the middle ages within a few generations.

how to stop it ?? ive no idea.

but appeasment and dialogue are not the answer.

i think that in years to come as the west realises that it cant prevent terrorism by containment it will have to pursue it in a very, veryaggressive way in order to preserve our own integrity.

my view is that the future does not look good.

[Thaiquila]

Good points, taxexile.

I read today that there are an estimated 50 million to 150 million young Islamic extremists who are indoctrinated in the philosophy that they should murder westerners. What a disaster. There is definitely no easy answer. My fault with Bush is that he squandered the good will and support of nations that would have been more united against this threat. He thought he had to do it alone, cowboy that he is, and he did have a bizarre personal agenda about Iraq. Historically tragic. Now the US is not only more at risk of attack than ever, but spending itself towards bankruptcy as well.

[adjan jb]

Has Bush made the world safer or more dangerous ?

Go ask the Spaniards.

P.S: Don't misunderstand me. Bush didn't plant the bombs himself. But by waging that unnecessary war on a Muslim country (Iraq), he has done nothing but fuelled terrorism. And, by the way, Al Qaeda has its more important bases in Afghanistan and Pakistan (all the intelligence agencies agree on that), not Iraq. As for the money, it comes from Saudi Arabia (at least a great percentage). Western intelligence agencies also agree on this one but they are not allowed to say it. Anyway, Bush would not listen, he's too involved with the House of Saud.

[Guest chingy]

all terrorist need to be genocide

[taxexile]

And, by the way, Al Qaeda has its more important bases in Afghanistan and Pakistan

where those bases are is irrelevant, there are, i'm sure, enough radical terrorists lying dormant in every non-islamic country in the world to cause problems on a regular basis for many years to come. they know what they have to do,and they are in no hurry to do it. they are as good as impossible to track down and find.

for every police find of bomb making equipment in some suburban attic there must be dozens more that will never be found.

terrorism is here to stay. it is out of bush's hands now. they have the upper hand.

[the gentleman]

bush's policies havent made the slightest difference to the danger levels in the world.

muslim extremists will do their utmost to cause the maximum destruction and disruption in western societies and in any societies that are at odds with their far fetched beliefs.

muslim terrorism, fuelled by the frustration of having to live within the strict confines of a religion that makes it difficult if not impossible to achieve any kind of personal achievment, sees the west as having the freedoms and liberties that they would like to have. mullahs know that once muslim countries have these freedoms then the religion would be diluted and forgotten. and the all powerful mullahs would lose their power.(just as religion in the west takes a back seat to personal achievment and gain for most people)

read about religious wars and persecution in the 14th,15thand 16th centuries to get some idea of the mentality of the mullahs who stoke the flames of terrorism

in order to maintain the hold of the religion over the people the mullahs preach hatred for the ways of the west with the result being a fertile breeding ground for terrorism.

if they cant have the freedoms we have then they will seek to destroy our rights to those freedoms.

radical islam is not tolerant of the ways of the infidel and is a great danger to western democracy.

if the dangers of muslim terrorism are not taken seriously and stopped then they will surely succeed in taking us all back to the middle ages within a few generations.

how to stop it ?? ive no idea.

but appeasment and dialogue are not the answer.

i think that in years to come as the west realises that it cant prevent terrorism by containment it will have to pursue it in a very, veryaggressive way in order to preserve our own integrity.

my view is that the future does not look good.

Taxexile, please read my post: Texas George And The Last Crusade - Unknown Author - this might shed a bit more light on the history of Mulims and who really are the terrorists!

If you believe Bush's policies havent made a difference to the danger levels of this world - your living under a rock!

[the gentleman]

Good points, taxexile.

I read today that there are an estimated 50 million to 150 million young Islamic extremists who are indoctrinated in the philosophy that they should murder westerners. What a disaster. There is definitely no easy answer. My fault with Bush is that he squandered the good will and support of nations that would have been more united against this threat. He thought he had to do it alone, cowboy that he is, and he did have a bizarre personal agenda about Iraq. Historically tragic. Now the US is not only more at risk of attack than ever, but spending itself towards bankruptcy as well.

150 milion "Islamic Extremists" told to kill westerners.

about 1 billion people told to kill Mulims as they are all "extremists"?!

THERE IS A GREAT HISTORY LESSON - Texas George And The Last Crusade - Unknown Author .

IT IS WORTH THE TIME TO READ IT

[taxexile]

If you believe Bush's policies havent made a difference to the danger levels of this world - your living under a rock!

and if you think that replacing bush,blair and the prime ministers of spain,italy and all the other countries that support bush will suddenly cause terrorism to stop then maybe you should also check your roofing material.

99 per cent of muslims are perfectly happy and capable of co-existing with the west.

the one per cent who are not are intent on causing maximum damage to the west. they will not enter into dialogue, they make no demands, they have only one aim.

to excuse their behaviour by reference to the past or present injustices is to ignore the fact that they are on an unstoppable mission.

we either accept their aims and lie down or we stop them by whatever means it takes.compromise or negotiation does not enter the equation.

in my view we are on a long path that will see sides being taken, lines drawn in the sand and an eventual terrible war that will make iraq look like a schoolyard brawl.

[Georgie-Porgie]

If you believe Bush's policies havent made a difference to the danger levels of this world - your living under a rock!

and if you think that replacing bush,blair and the prime ministers of spain,italy and all the other countries that support bush will suddenly cause terrorism to stop then maybe you should also check your roofing material.

99 per cent of muslims are perfectly happy and capable of co-existing with the west.

the one per cent who are not are intent on causing maximum damage to the west. they will not enter into dialogue, they make no demands, they have only one aim.

to excuse their behaviour by reference to the past or present injustices is to ignore the fact that they are on an unstoppable mission.

we either accept their aims and lie down or we stop them by whatever means it takes.

Tax Exile, loved your comments refering to the gentleman's lack of a working brain:

and if you think that replacing bush,blair and the prime ministers of spain,italy and all the other countries that support bush will suddenly cause terrorism to stop then maybe you should also check your roofing material.

All such comments are welcome.

[the gentleman]

If you believe Bush's policies havent made a difference to the danger levels of this world - your living under a rock!

and if you think that replacing bush,blair and the prime ministers of spain,italy and all the other countries that support bush will suddenly cause terrorism to stop then maybe you should also check your roofing material.

99 per cent of muslims are perfectly happy and capable of co-existing with the west.

the one per cent who are not are intent on causing maximum damage to the west. they will not enter into dialogue, they make no demands, they have only one aim.

to excuse their behaviour by reference to the past or present injustices is to ignore the fact that they are on an unstoppable mission.

we either accept their aims and lie down or we stop them by whatever means it takes.compromise or negotiation does not enter the equation.

in my view we are on a long path that will see sides being taken, lines drawn in the sand and an eventual terrible war that will make iraq look like a schoolyard brawl.

I agree with most of what you wrote!

did you read: THERE IS A GREAT HISTORY LESSON - Texas George And The Last Crusade - Unknown Author .

that might shed a bit more light for you!

[the gentleman]

If you believe Bush's policies havent made a difference to the danger levels of this world - your living under a rock!

and if you think that replacing bush,blair and the prime ministers of spain,italy and all the other countries that support bush will suddenly cause terrorism to stop then maybe you should also check your roofing material.

99 per cent of muslims are perfectly happy and capable of co-existing with the west.

the one per cent who are not are intent on causing maximum damage to the west. they will not enter into dialogue, they make no demands, they have only one aim.

to excuse their behaviour by reference to the past or present injustices is to ignore the fact that they are on an unstoppable mission.

we either accept their aims and lie down or we stop them by whatever means it takes.

Tax Exile, loved your comments refering to the gentleman's lack of a working brain:

and if you think that replacing bush,blair and the prime ministers of spain,italy and all the other countries that support bush will suddenly cause terrorism to stop then maybe you should also check your roofing material.

All such comments are welcome.

Georgie - we have listened to views like yours for centurys - if we believed your narrow minded tripe regarding the world - we would still think the world is flat!

For an "eductator", you have a lot to learn about the real world!

Instead of correcting grammar and spelling - expand your mind to the points being made - life isnt black and white, it isnt that easy - you should be aware of that - put up your own debate and stop clutching at the coat tails of the people who want to make there own points! This isnt a Football forum, there are no sides!, yet you still try to rally "your gang" - grow up and answer a few posts with valid concerns and thoughts!

[mouse]

I think that we are loosing the war on terrorism and I am not alone. Thanks GWB

See the article here for a valid perspective http://www.indianastatesman.com/vnews/disp...9/405a721fdcfca

[Boon Mee]

We ain't loosin' no war to those Islamofachist puke - we'll keep hammerin' them until they're beat into submission...

To quote taxexile:

<<99 per cent of muslims are perfectly happy and capable of co-existing with the west.

the one per cent who are not are intent on causing maximum damage to the west. they will not enter into dialogue, they make no demands, they have only one aim.>>

The major problem right now is the very-vocal minority wanting instant-gratification in the name of appeasment. Remember Chamberlin and the rest of those appeasers who chose to placate rather than to undertake the unpleasant task of "beating them into submission"...

[the gentleman]

Thats the point Boon Mee, nationalistic pride/underestimating your opposition/anger - is a recipe for defeat.

You will not win a war, with words and your planning for Afhganistan and Iraq, was shooting from the hip - do you think you have won?!

[mango head]

3. Iraq before 911 not tied to Al Queda terrorists, and it had secure borders to keep out international terrorists.

You still believe in the easter bunny and santa claus don't you?

[Boon Mee]

Thats the point Boon Mee, nationalistic pride/underestimating your opposition/anger - is a recipe for defeat.

You will not win a war, with words and your planning for Afhganistan and Iraq, was shooting from the hip - do you think you have won?!

We're on our way...

[the gentleman]

That is pide talking - what are you winning?!

[Georgie-Porgie]

That is pide talking - what are you winning?!

What the he11 is "pide" you ignoramus?!

[the gentleman]

touche - you correct the spelling as I mentioned in another thread - I need you to make them understand - thanks for that

[mango head]

If you disagree with my assertion, why don't you explain why you think Bushs' foreign policies have made the world safer?

About your assertions, you got the ass part right. Bush didn't start all this. These a-holes have been blowing up Israel and Europe long before Wcame on the scene. If you're such a fan of Osama's why don't you go help him sneak back into his own country where he's been kicked out? Or better yet, pull your head out of your butt and take a look at what's been going on.

[Boon Mee]

It means we ARE winning, Gent. Don't believe everything you hear on CNN.

Get up to Pattaya and listen to some of the real accounts from some of the "tech-reps" and military "types" if you know what I mean about what is really going on in Iraq and Afganistan.

[the gentleman]

If you disagree with my assertion, why don't you explain why you think Bushs' foreign policies have made the world safer?

About your assertions, you got the ass part right. Bush didn't start all this. These a-holes have been blowing up Israel and Europe long before Wcame on the scene. If you're such a fan of Osama's why don't you go help him sneak back into his own country where he's been kicked out? Or better yet, pull your head out of your butt and take a look at what's been going on.

What has Osama got to do with Bush being in Iraq?

I think the US has blown up a bit more than Osama - check your facts!

[the gentleman]

It means we ARE winning, Gent. Don't believe everything you hear on CNN.

Get up to Pattaya and listen to some of the real accounts from some of the "tech-reps" and military "types" if you know what I mean about what is really going on in Iraq and Afganistan.

Boon Mee, for one I dont watch CNN, dont worry that is not where I get my news.

I dont have to go to Pattaya either as my "friends" are already there and was before you guys landed, the miltary "types" you talk of arent in Pattaya, they are on the ground - I get it from the source, so now you know why I am passionate about it and I do have a clue, what is happening.

Who do you think, were the people who helped you "find your missile targets", who were the people gathering intel, for your government to find the sons - none of that is on any news - as I have said before, a real soldier is anony.

You are not winning in the streets, nor are you winning within your ranks - its a cluster f*uck - army reservists on check points, killing journalists because they are untrained and scared, national guard patrolling the streets, with no language skills and to fat to fit the suit.

If winning the war, means killing civvys and being killed by "terrorists"/civvys - well I am sorry mate - you will never win as they have no regard for thier or anyones life - its jihad, not war - what would you be doing if you were invaded - not laying down for sure!

This will never end by military might - it aint that easy.

[mango head]

If you disagree with my assertion, why don't you explain why you think Bushs' foreign policies have made the world safer?

About your assertions, you got the ass part right. Bush didn't start all this. These a-holes have been blowing up Israel and Europe long before Wcame on the scene. If you're such a fan of Osama's why don't you go help him sneak back into his own country where he's been kicked out? Or better yet, pull your head out of your butt and take a look at what's been going on.

What has Osama got to do with Bush being in Iraq?

I think the US has blown up a bit more than Osama - check your facts!

Why does Thaiquila think Bush is the bad guy? Bush didn't start it but he's trying to finish it. He had to start somewhere didn't he? It's no skin off my nose if you guys are pro Taliban and anti Bush but when the car bombs go off at your front door, who are you going to go cry to?

[Thaiquila]

If you disagree with my assertion, why don't you explain why you think Bushs' foreign policies have made the world safer?

About your assertions, you got the ass part right. Bush didn't start all this. These a-holes have been blowing up Israel and Europe long before Wcame on the scene. If you're such a fan of Osama's why don't you go help him sneak back into his own country where he's been kicked out? Or better yet, pull your head out of your butt and take a look at what's been going on.

What has Osama got to do with Bush being in Iraq?

I think the US has blown up a bit more than Osama - check your facts!

Why does Thaiquila think Bush is the bad guy? Bush didn't start it but he's trying to finish it. He had to start somewhere didn't he? It's no skin off my nose if you guys are pro Taliban and anti Bush but when the car bombs go off at your front door, who are you going to go cry to?

For your info:

I am not a fan of Osama, Sharon, Hussein, or Bush.

The Taliban is Afghanistan, not Iraq.

The Taliban are not international terrorists, but they did harbor Al Queda, which are international terrorists.

If you have been following my point, Bush is the problem now because he wasted resources on the war in Iraq which had nothing to do with Al Queda.

I am for the war on international terrorism.

I am against the way Bush is bungling it.

The view I have is a mainstream view of the American democratic party. I am hardly a radical.

[the gentleman]

You are making a cock of yourself Mango head -why are people who dont respect Bush, classed as pro Taliban - Mate if a car bomb went of out side my place, Id be dead - I wouldnt be crying to anyone - go join up and get over there and fight, if your that brave - Ive done my service for my country, yours and others - what have you done!

[Boon Mee]

It means we ARE winning, Gent.  Don't believe everything you hear on CNN.

Get up to Pattaya and listen to some of the real accounts from some of the "tech-reps" and military "types" if you know what I mean about what is really going on in Iraq and Afganistan.

Boon Mee, for one I dont watch CNN, dont worry that is not where I get my news.

I dont have to go to Pattaya either as my "friends" are already there and was before you guys landed, the miltary "types" you talk of arent in Pattaya, they are on the ground - I get it from the source, so now you know why I am passionate about it and I do have a clue, what is happening.

Who do you think, were the people who helped you "find your missile targets", who were the people gathering intel, for your government to find the sons - none of that is on any news - as I have said before, a real soldier is anony.

You are not winning in the streets, nor are you winning within your ranks - its a cluster f*uck - army reservists on check points, killing journalists because they are untrained and scared, national guard patrolling the streets, with no language skills and to fat to fit the suit.

If winning the war, means killing civvys and being killed by "terrorists"/civvys - well I am sorry mate - you will never win as they have no regard for thier or anyones life - its jihad, not war - what would you be doing if you were invaded - not laying down for sure!

This will never end by military might - it aint that easy.

Gent~,

It might be a cluster f*uck but it's the only cluster we've got. Can't "roll-over" and let the place(s) grind back into anarchy.

The power of Positive Thinking! If Lincoln had given up when it looked like the south was going to win, we'd all be chewin', spittin' and saying y'all...