Fired Israeli minister slams Netanyahu for being 'out of touch'

[webfact]

Fired Israeli minister slams Netanyahu for being "out of touch"
English.news.cn

JERUSALEM, Dec. 4 (Xinhua) -- Former Israeli Finance Minister Yair Lapid, who was fired and rebuked by Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu, lashed out at Netanyahu on Wednesday, saying Netanyahu was "out of touch."

In a press briefing held in Tel Aviv Wednesday evening, Lapid said the Prime Minister "is out of touch and self-involved. No one else but him is interested in going to elections."

"Prime minister," Lapid said, "you have no idea what the elections would do to the citizens, because you haven't known them and what's on their mind for a long while. You just told the public that you'd rather shut down the economy and spend billions of shekels."

Experts estimate the early elections set to take place on March 17 will cost about two billion shekels (half a billion U.S. dollars), and will paralyze the country as no budget has been passed by the Knesset (parliament) for 2015.

He added that the prime minister is wrong by assuming he will keep his position following the upcoming elections. "The prime minister has made a mistake and will not establish the next government," Lapid said.

Responding directly to accusations by Netanyahu that he and Justice Minister Tzipi Livni, who Netanyahu also fired, were undermining his leadership from within the government, he called the press appearance by Netanyahu on Tuesday "haunted and terrified" and said Netanyahu was the one who tried to make political deals and overthrow Lapid's party from the government.

"You closed a deal with the ultra-Orthodox, you made them promises and then you complain there was a coup d'état against you which never took place. It's not just out of touch, it's living in fantasy land," he added.

The minister also slammed Netanyahu for hurting Israel's relationship with United States, which some experts say is at an all-time low, and for not giving peace efforts with the Palestinians a standing chance.

On Tuesday, Netanyahu said the center-left ministers were undermining his authority and the government and said he is no longer able to lead the country and supports early elections, two years after the previous ones took place.

Knesset members voted in favor of dispersing the Knesset on Wednesday in an initial round of votes with 84 members voting for it and no one voting against it. The final rounds of voting are set to take place on Monday.

The problems in the coalition stem from harsh disagreements between the hardline right and the center-left factions on matters of nationalist legislation, the handling of the escalating security situation, the collapse of the peace talks with the Palestinians and Israel's diplomatic isolation across the world, as well as the 2015 budget.

Netanyahu's critics say he had chosen to "break to the right" in order to get the support of hardline members of his party in the upcoming internal elections and keep his position as the chairman.

Source: http://news.xinhuanet.com/english/world/2014-12/04/c_133831180.htm

-- Xinhua 2014-12-04

[Suradit69]

Experts estimate the early elections set to take place on March 17 will cost about two billion shekels (half a billion U.S. dollars)

Half a billion dollars is nothing when you have a rich uncle.

U.S. taxpayers have provided the Israeli military that invaded Gaza on Thursday night with more than $121 billion since the state’s founding, subsidizing about 25 percent of the tiny country’s annual defense budget in recent years.

http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2014/07/18/some-of-israel-s-top-defenders-say-it-s-time-to-end-u-s-aid.html

[Ulysses G.]

Half a billion dollars is nothing when you have a rich uncle.

Almost all the money is spent on arms from the USA. It is a subsidy to American arms manufacturers that helps both countries and helps our only reliable ally in the Middle East.

Edited December 4, 2014 by Ulysses G.

[jdinasia]

Are least the article addresses Israel's growing isolation politically.

Israel's actions are sure to lead to further isolation if they elect another fascist government.

[ABCer]

Netanyahu, Shlomonyahu, or any other 'yahoo' Government - not really important.

The loose words used by some TV posters like 'clones from Rothschild database' or 'fascist Government' are more describing the poster's attitude than Israel's politics.

Talks of growing 'Israel political isolation' are pointless because it always was, is and will be 'politically isolated' in the eyes of millions of beholders from most countries.

Even references to the 'only reliable ally of US in the Middle East' sound dubious IMHO because the reliability of any ally is a matter of politics of the day and must be a two way street.

To see future one must look back at least sometimes. If in doubt look up the history of "Liberty".

US - Israeli alliance is secondary for both US and Israel. Primary is and must be National interests of both countries.

American and Israeli National interests are not the same. Which is fair enough.

The problem is neither State has a consensus on what these interests are within each country.

Hence 'slams', 'out of touch' and bitter dog fights among politicians who come and go. But real National interests remain.

Would be nice to definitely know what are the Real National interests of Israel and US.

i sometimes envy those TV posters who are in the know.

Edited December 4, 2014 by ABCer

[Seastallion]

Netanyahu, Shlomonyahu, or any other 'yahoo' Government - not really important.

The loose words used by some TV posters like 'clones from Rothschild database' or 'fascist Government' are more describing the poster's attitude than Israel's politics.

Talks of growing 'Israel political isolation' are pointless because it always was, is and will be 'politically isolated' in the eyes of millions of beholders from most countries.

Even references to the 'only reliable ally of US in the Middle East' sound dubious IMHO because the reliability of any ally is a matter of politics of the day and must be a two way street.

To see future one must look back at least sometimes. If in doubt look up the history of "Liberty".

US - Israeli alliance is secondary for both US and Israel. Primary is and must be National interests of both countries.

American and Israeli National interests are not the same. Which is fair enough.

The problem is neither State has a consensus on what these interests are within each country.

Hence 'slams', 'out of touch' and bitter dog fights among politicians who come and go. But real National interests remain.

Would be nice to definitely know what are the Real National interests of Israel and US.

i sometimes envy those TV posters who are in the know.

Well, we do know Netanyahu's Likud Party's interests are, as stated in their manifesto; "Isreal for Jew, from the river to the sea".

[rickirs]

Regardless of the conflicting positions bewteen Lapid and Netanyahu, the Israeli electorate will decide the matter. Both men are free to state their ideologies before the public and promote their own particular solutions to the issues. Perhaps Lapid should run against Netanyahu or support a popular figure who shares his ideology. I see Netanyahu become increasingly erratic and over reaching in his behavior. He seems to have moved to an ultra-conservative position that is fixated on preventing any peaceful solution to the Palestine conflict. Israel the nation is an ally and friend of the US but Netanyahu is not.

[Scott]

Off-topic, troll post removed.

Please stay on topic.

[Morch]

Netanyahu, Shlomonyahu, or any other 'yahoo' Government - not really important.

The loose words used by some TV posters like 'clones from Rothschild database' or 'fascist Government' are more describing the poster's attitude than Israel's politics.

Talks of growing 'Israel political isolation' are pointless because it always was, is and will be 'politically isolated' in the eyes of millions of beholders from most countries.

Even references to the 'only reliable ally of US in the Middle East' sound dubious IMHO because the reliability of any ally is a matter of politics of the day and must be a two way street.

To see future one must look back at least sometimes. If in doubt look up the history of "Liberty".

US - Israeli alliance is secondary for both US and Israel. Primary is and must be National interests of both countries.

American and Israeli National interests are not the same. Which is fair enough.

The problem is neither State has a consensus on what these interests are within each country.

Hence 'slams', 'out of touch' and bitter dog fights among politicians who come and go. But real National interests remain.

Would be nice to definitely know what are the Real National interests of Israel and US.

i sometimes envy those TV posters who are in the know.

Well, we do know Netanyahu's Likud Party's interests are, as stated in their manifesto; "Isreal for Jew, from the river to the sea".

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/780078-israel-says-it-broke-up-hamas-terror-plot/page-5#entry8739126

[Morch]

Experts estimate the early elections set to take place on March 17 will cost about two billion shekels (half a billion U.S. dollars)

Half a billion dollars is nothing when you have a rich uncle.

U.S. taxpayers have provided the Israeli military that invaded Gaza on Thursday night with more than $121 billion since the state’s founding, subsidizing about 25 percent of the tiny country’s annual defense budget in recent years.

http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2014/07/18/some-of-israel-s-top-defenders-say-it-s-time-to-end-u-s-aid.html

Nice try, but the USA aid is restricted to the military and is essentially a subsidy for USA firms.

The cost of running another elections will be placed on the shoulders of Israel's citizens, and with the economy not

being in great shape - bashing politicians over this is currently widespread (regardless of political affiliation).

Naturally, each one of them blames the other....

[ABCer]

Netanyahu, Shlomonyahu, or any other 'yahoo' Government - not really important.

The loose words used by some TV posters like 'clones from Rothschild database' or 'fascist Government' are more describing the poster's attitude than Israel's politics.

Talks of growing 'Israel political isolation' are pointless because it always was, is and will be 'politically isolated' in the eyes of millions of beholders from most countries.

Even references to the 'only reliable ally of US in the Middle East' sound dubious IMHO because the reliability of any ally is a matter of politics of the day and must be a two way street.

To see future one must look back at least sometimes. If in doubt look up the history of "Liberty".

US - Israeli alliance is secondary for both US and Israel. Primary is and must be National interests of both countries.

American and Israeli National interests are not the same. Which is fair enough.

The problem is neither State has a consensus on what these interests are within each country.

Hence 'slams', 'out of touch' and bitter dog fights among politicians who come and go. But real National interests remain.

Would be nice to definitely know what are the Real National interests of Israel and US.

i sometimes envy those TV posters who are in the know.

Well, we do know Netanyahu's Likud Party's interests are, as stated in their manifesto; "Isreal for Jew, from the river to the sea".

You and the friends who 'like' your posts should look at the whole picture.

In other words look at the basic concept and 'manifesto' of the very people you are advocating for: No Jews, No Israel, until they are killed or pushed into the sea.

Unless you see this you give an impression of an one eyed man thinking with half of his brain.

"Half of a truth is a whole lie". And you are not among 'those in the know' among TV posters I said I envy.

[car720]

Netanyahu, Shlomonyahu, or any other 'yahoo' Government - not really important.

The loose words used by some TV posters like 'clones from Rothschild database' or 'fascist Government' are more describing the poster's attitude than Israel's politics.

Talks of growing 'Israel political isolation' are pointless because it always was, is and will be 'politically isolated' in the eyes of millions of beholders from most countries.

Even references to the 'only reliable ally of US in the Middle East' sound dubious IMHO because the reliability of any ally is a matter of politics of the day and must be a two way street.

To see future one must look back at least sometimes. If in doubt look up the history of "Liberty".

US - Israeli alliance is secondary for both US and Israel. Primary is and must be National interests of both countries.

American and Israeli National interests are not the same. Which is fair enough.

The problem is neither State has a consensus on what these interests are within each country.

Hence 'slams', 'out of touch' and bitter dog fights among politicians who come and go. But real National interests remain.

Would be nice to definitely know what are the Real National interests of Israel and US.

i sometimes envy those TV posters who are in the know.

Well, we do know Netanyahu's Likud Party's interests are, as stated in their manifesto; "Isreal for Jew, from the river to the sea".

Let my people go........

[car720]

Netanyahu, Shlomonyahu, or any other 'yahoo' Government - not really important.

The loose words used by some TV posters like 'clones from Rothschild database' or 'fascist Government' are more describing the poster's attitude than Israel's politics.

Talks of growing 'Israel political isolation' are pointless because it always was, is and will be 'politically isolated' in the eyes of millions of beholders from most countries.

Even references to the 'only reliable ally of US in the Middle East' sound dubious IMHO because the reliability of any ally is a matter of politics of the day and must be a two way street.

To see future one must look back at least sometimes. If in doubt look up the history of "Liberty".

US - Israeli alliance is secondary for both US and Israel. Primary is and must be National interests of both countries.

American and Israeli National interests are not the same. Which is fair enough.

The problem is neither State has a consensus on what these interests are within each country.

Hence 'slams', 'out of touch' and bitter dog fights among politicians who come and go. But real National interests remain.

Would be nice to definitely know what are the Real National interests of Israel and US.

i sometimes envy those TV posters who are in the know.

Well, we do know Netanyahu's Likud Party's interests are, as stated in their manifesto; "Isreal for Jew, from the river to the sea".

You and the friends who 'like' your posts should look at the whole picture.

In other words look at the basic concept and 'manifesto' of the very people you are advocating for: No Jews, No Israel, until they are killed or pushed into the sea.

Unless you see this you give an impression of an one eyed man thinking with half of his brain.

"Half of a truth is a whole lie". And you are not among 'those in the know' among TV posters I said I envy.

sounds more like one eyed man using all of the brain......

[mania]

Experts estimate the early elections set to take place on March 17 will cost about two billion shekels (half a billion U.S. dollars)

Half a billion dollars is nothing when you have a rich uncle.

U.S. taxpayers have provided the Israeli military that invaded Gaza on Thursday night with more than $121 billion since the state’s founding, subsidizing about 25 percent of the tiny country’s annual defense budget in recent years.

http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2014/07/18/some-of-israel-s-top-defenders-say-it-s-time-to-end-u-s-aid.html

Nice try, but the USA aid is restricted to the military and is essentially a subsidy for USA firms.

The cost of running another elections will be placed on the shoulders of Israel's citizens, and with the economy not

being in great shape - bashing politicians over this is currently widespread (regardless of political affiliation).

Naturally, each one of them blames the other....

I dont know if it was a nice try? But to claim as you do here that all the aid given by the US to Israel is basically a

subsidy for USA firms is not true. Yes there may be some defense sales from US companies

but many times like recently 2011 I think it was when Obama requested an additional 205 million or so for more missiles for the Iron Dome +

"Subsequent requests for funding for the project have also been approved, including $351 million that Israel requested for purchasing additional

Tamir interception missiles for Iron Dome in the third week of July, during Operation Protective Edge".

Tamir interceptor missiles??

Those are manufactured by Rafael Advanced Defense Systems

Rafael is the largest employer in Northern Israel with approximately 7,000 employees and numerous subcontractor and service suppliers

Not looking for another long boring Israel discussion but just want to say that a blanket statement often thrown around to

justify the US giving Israel something insane like equal to 8.5 million per day is Nucking Futs given the current state of the US economic condition period.

Those who like to imply the US gets it back thru purchases thru US companies is not true to the degree they like to imply

Again first off charity starts at home & we in the US have our own problems.

Secondly there are countries with starving sick folks that aid would be better spent rather than this.

Edited December 4, 2014 by mania

[Ulysses G.]

Those who like to imply the US gets it back thru purchases thru US companies is not true to the degree they like to imply

No evidence that you have presented even begins to prove your opinion and nothing you have ever contributed about Israel convinces me to take your word for it.

Face it, Morch knows WAY more about the conflict than anyone else posting here and is much more impartial. His assertion that "the USA aid is restricted to the military and is essentially a subsidy for USA firms" has real credibility.

Edited December 4, 2014 by Ulysses G.

[mania]

Those who like to imply the US gets it back thru purchases thru US companies is not true to the degree they like to imply

No evidence that you have presented even begins to prove your opinion and nothing you have ever contributed about Israel convinces me to take your word for it.

Face it, Morch knows WAY more about the conflict than anyone else posting here and is much more impartial. His assertion that "the USA aid is restricted to the military and is essentially a subsidy for USA firms" has real credibility.

hahah tough crowd

Even with direct links showing Rafael is a Israeli company & they in fact do manufacture the Tamir interceptor missiles

Nor a direct quote showing that Obama requested funding specifically to buy those missiles does not make a blanket statement that

all aid is somehow given back to the us the USA untrue?

Ok yes proven nothing except actual facts & disallowed?

No problem carry on because this is how these Israeli topics get so far out.

Since facts are disallowed & deemed one sided if ....that side is not in total agreement that the chosen one can do no wrong.

Edited December 4, 2014 by mania

[Ulysses G.]

No one - but you - said "all aid". Most aid is correct. Roughly 26 percent of what Israel receives in Foreign Military Financing can be spent in Israel for military procurement. The remaining 74 percent of FMF is spent in the United States to generate profits and jobs.

[mania]

No one - but you - said "all aid". Most aid is correct. Roughly 26 percent of what Israel receives in Foreign Military Financing can be spent in Israel for military procurement. The remaining 74 percent of FMF is spent in the United States to generate profits and jobs.

Well I replied to but did not say this....

"but the USA aid is restricted to the military and is essentially a subsidy for USA firms"

What I did say was not exactly what you claim either...What I said was

"But to claim as you do here that all the aid given by the US to Israel is basically a subsidy for USA firms is not true."

Note the similarities?

Secondly what difference does it make when my main contention is we the US cannot afford it nor should we be spending it?

Lastly I have seen no link nor proof to back up your 74% figure & even if I did

how would it matter? So we the Citizens of the USA get the bill for giving away 8.5 million per day to Israel

& a handful in comparison somehow profit from the repeat business in weaponry????

That makes next to no sense to me & I would bet the majority of US citizens feel the same.

For 2015 55% of all foreign military aid is slated for Israel? That too seems off base

In fact during these economical times in the US with our ever increasing debt it all seems off base period.

Meaning not just what is given to Israel but all of it.

Many folks complain about the peanuts wasted by govt yet turn a blind eye to the elephants

Anyway.............these topics always get into an endless cycle

Edited December 4, 2014 by mania

[Morch]

Half a billion dollars is nothing when you have a rich uncle.

http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2014/07/18/some-of-israel-s-top-defenders-say-it-s-time-to-end-u-s-aid.html

Nice try, but the USA aid is restricted to the military and is essentially a subsidy for USA firms.

The cost of running another elections will be placed on the shoulders of Israel's citizens, and with the economy not

being in great shape - bashing politicians over this is currently widespread (regardless of political affiliation).

Naturally, each one of them blames the other....

I dont know if it was a nice try? But to claim as you do here that all the aid given by the US to Israel is basically a

subsidy for USA firms is not true. Yes there may be some defense sales from US companies

but many times like recently 2011 I think it was when Obama requested an additional 205 million or so for more missiles for the Iron Dome +

"Subsequent requests for funding for the project have also been approved, including $351 million that Israel requested for purchasing additional

Tamir interception missiles for Iron Dome in the third week of July, during Operation Protective Edge".

Tamir interceptor missiles??

Those are manufactured by Rafael Advanced Defense Systems

Rafael is the largest employer in Northern Israel with approximately 7,000 employees and numerous subcontractor and service suppliers

Not looking for another long boring Israel discussion but just want to say that a blanket statement often thrown around to

justify the US giving Israel something insane like equal to 8.5 million per day is Nucking Futs given the current state of the US economic condition period.

Those who like to imply the US gets it back thru purchases thru US companies is not true to the degree they like to imply

Again first off charity starts at home & we in the US have our own problems.

Secondly there are countries with starving sick folks that aid would be better spent rather than this.

Well, can count on any topic mentioning Israel to be derailed... The post I responded to somehow linked between the cost of conducting a new elections and the USA aid to Israel. That the USA aid is not used for such purposes is, I think, agreed.

The USA aid to Israel is intended for military expenditure, not civilian. I did not say all of the funds are a subsidy, although certainly the lion's share. The Iron Dome funds you mentioned were in addition to the regular aid.

Here's a little update on Iron Dome production:

The firm recently finalized an agreement making Raytheon its US partner in co-production of major components for the Iron Dome’s Tamir intercepting missile.

The US firm will supply components through various subcontractors, government and industry sources said.

Congress conditioned more than $680 million in previously approved Iron Dome procurement funding on a work-sharing agreement for US-based production. In a mid-May visit to Israel, US Defense Secretary Chuck Hagel noted that the US investment in Iron Dome was nearly $900 million.

http://www.defencenews.in/defence-news-internal.aspx?id=WXHgUxJ9ukM=

As for your general complaint, I agree that there are better ways to spend the USA tax dollars. But this should probably be addressed toward one's representative in the congress and the senate, rather than Israel.

[dexterm]

Those who like to imply the US gets it back thru purchases thru US companies is not true to the degree they like to imply

Face it, Morch knows WAY more about the conflict than anyone else posting here and is much more impartial.

I disagree. I think most of the time he plays the good cop to your bad cop routine. His apparent fence sitting usually comes down on the side of Israel. Otherwise you wouldn't admire him so much.

[Scott]

One post removed.

Please stick to the topic, which isn't about whose posts are better.

[mania]

As for your general complaint, I agree that there are better ways to spend the USA tax dollars.

But this should probably be addressed toward one's representative in the congress and the senate, rather than Israel.

Yes I agree & of course it should be directed to reps & trust me when I lived there I did address them on these issues &

to their credit got replies from most.

....But having left the US partially for this as well as other issues that many feel

we no longer have true representation on...it is not such a big concern these days for myself having opted out.

But still........I have family & children there who live with the consequences of certain actions.

Not to mention the power of special interests & lobbying groups seem to easily outweigh citizens opinions these days.

Although the reps promise a good ear & if elected to be a voice of those who employ them when running for offices...

They become quite deaf once in place....

Lastly it is not even tax dollars the US is spending but that which they do not have...hence the deficit/national debt.

But yes the bill for it will be paid by the US citizens one way or another

Edited December 5, 2014 by mania

[Camelot]

I wonder what now-ex Justice Minister Tzipi Livni did wrong. Was she becoming too popular? I'm no expert but she has always struck me as someone who would perform well in a higher office..She certainly projects a better and more personable image than Netanyahu who seems to have been around forever.

[Camelot]

I wonder what now-ex Justice Minister Tzipi Livni did wrong. Was she becoming too popular? I'm no expert but she has always struck me as someone who would perform well in a higher office..She certainly projects a better and more personable image than Netanyahu, who seems to have been around forever.

Edited December 5, 2014 by Camelot

[Morch]

I wonder what now-ex Justice Minister Tzipi Livni did wrong. Was she becoming too popular? I'm no expert but she has always struck me as someone who would perform well in a higher office..She certainly projects a better and more personable image than Netanyahu who seems to have been around forever.

No one did any "wrong", they are just holding different position on many issues. They managed to patch things up to a point,

and when the charade could not be maintained the bubble burst. Of course, everyone involved was busy backstage plotting

alternative alliances, Netanyahu just got the jump on them.

Livni is not particularly popular and her current party holds 6 (out of 120) seats in the parliament.

Livni and Lapid were fired because the fault lines in this coalition were getting too wide, and because the potential next round

coalition partners are in direct opposition to both of them. Netanyahu probably had his party's upcoming primary elections in

mind as well - when playing at this particular home court, it usually pays to go for right wing nationalistic themes, with a dash

of religious overtones. Breaking the unnatural alliance with these two center/left parties might help his improve his image as

far as the home crowd goes.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tzipi_Livni

[Chicog]

Half a billion dollars is nothing when you have a rich uncle.

Almost all the money is spent on arms from the USA. It is a subsidy to American arms manufacturers that helps both countries and helps our only reliable ally in the Middle East.

Not wrong there UG. They can be relied upon to stir up regional tensions with their terror tactics against the Palestinians.

I think Bahrain has a better claim.

They host your Fifth Fleet and Naval Support base, and an air base, and don't stir up anti-American sentiment on a regular basis.

The UAE and Oman are pretty reliable also, without the baggage.

Kuwait are beholden to you.

Saudi and Qatar, well they are allies but two-faced to say the least.

Edited December 5, 2014 by Chicog

[up-country_sinclair]

^ With "friends" like Israel, who needs enemies?

[Ulysses G.]

I think Bahrain has a better claim.

That is great that you want to pick our allies for us, but you are not American, so you really do not have a vote.

[Chicog]

I think Bahrain has a better claim.

That is great that you want to pick our allies for us, but you are not American, so you really do not have a vote.

You seem to be under the illusion that this is some kind of election.

[Jay Sata]

Netanyahu has achieved nothing for Israel. Very high cost of living thanks to crazy ill thought out military offensives in Gaza and the settlements fomenting more hostility in the West Bank.

The so called immigrant settlers and the ultra orthodox religious zealots contribute nothing to the economy but are the root of a lot of problems for Israel. In the case of the latter they refuse to work or join the military and appear to spend all their time creating ever increasing families funded by the Israeli taxpayers.

There are others in the more moderate Israel political scene with progressive views.

Israeli opposition leader, Isaac Herzog, says it's "absolutely possible" to make peace with the Palestinians. Speaking at the Brookings Institution in Washington DC, the leader of the Israeli Labour Party says it is a mistake to assume that peace is unreachable. He says that if he forms the next government he will lead Israel in a different direction

http://www.theguardian.com/world/video/2014/dec/06/israeli-opposition-leader-isaac-herzog-peace-video

My money is on Tzipi Livni.

Whatever the hot air from the usual posters that derails threads the facts are that Israel will have to accept a compromise.

France recognised Palestine last week and more will come.

Edited December 6, 2014 by Jay Sata