Eric Garner: No charges in NY chokehold case

[webfact]

Eric Garner: No charges in NY chokehold case

(BBC) A grand jury has not charged a New York City police officer over the death of Eric Garner, who died after being placed in a chokehold by the officer.

A video of Officer Daniel Pantaleo arresting Garner in July sparked national attention.

Following the grand jury decision, crowds gathered in New York's Times Square to vent their frustration.

President Barack Obama said it "speaks to larger issues" that minorities have with law enforcement.

And the US Justice Department said it would conduct a federal investigation, according to unnamed officials speaking to US media.

In the New York incident, asthmatic Garner, 43, was heard on the video shouting "I can't breathe!" as a number of officers restrained him.

Full story: http://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-30317807


-- BBC 2014-12-04

[danmarnj]

How not to get your ass kicked by the police

/watch?v=uj0mtxXEGE8

[Ulysses G.]

Now THIS is a travesty. From all the evidence that I have seen, these police were not out to murder this guy, but they acted illegally with the choke-hold that caused Eric Garner's death. . Some sort of charges should have been filed. The Grand Jury in Ferguson acted properly, but this one seems suspicious.

Edited December 4, 2014 by Ulysses G.

[uptheos]

Selling un-taxed cigarettes, certainly excessive force as the video shows.

Edited December 4, 2014 by uptheos

[Suradit69]

Now THIS is a travesty. From all the evidence that I have seen, these police were not out to murder this guy, but they acted illegally with the choke-hold that caused Eric Garner's death. . Some sort of charges should have been filed. The Grand Jury in Ferguson acted properly, but this one seems suspicious.

"The Grand Jury in Ferguson acted properly ..."

A conservative Supreme Court judge (appointed by Ronald Reagan) would beg to disagree.

Justice Scalia Explains What Was Wrong With The Ferguson Grand Jury

It is the grand jury’s function not ‘to enquire … upon what foundation [the charge may be] denied,’ or otherwise to try the suspect’s defenses, but only to examine ‘upon what foundation [the charge] is made’ by the prosecutor. Respublica v. Shaffer, 1 Dall. 236 (O. T. Phila. 1788); see also F. Wharton, Criminal Pleading and Practice § 360, pp. 248-249 (8th ed. 1880). As a consequence, neither in this country nor in England has the suspect under investigation by the grand jury ever been thought to have a right to testify or to have exculpatory evidence presented.

http://thinkprogress.org/justice/2014/11/26/3597322/justice-scalia-explains-what-was-wrong-with-the-ferguson-grand-jury/

Edited December 4, 2014 by Suradit69

[Ulysses G.]

Are you serious - spin from a liberal rag? Justice Scalia was not commenting on this case - although the article tries to spin it that way. The prosecutor was under no obligation to present such evidence to the grand jury, but that does not mean that he could not, if he saw fit. The truth is that he never should have brought it to a Grand Jury in the first place as the shooting was obviously JUSTIFIED.

[JoePai]

Seems the US police are taking a leaf out of the BIB book on policing ...

[rickirs]

<script type='text/javascript'>window.mod_pagespeed_start = Number(new Date());</script>

Now THIS is a travesty. From all the evidence that I have seen, these police were not out to murder this guy, but they acted illegally with the choke-hold that caused Eric Garner's death. . Some sort of charges should have been filed. The Grand Jury in Ferguson acted properly, but this one seems suspicious.

While NYC has a ban on chokeholds by police, it's not a criminal offence but a work-related procedural violation. Following a managerial administrative review with attendance of the police union, the officer might be exculpated, receive an oral admonishment, receive a written letter of admishment, temporary suspension, transfer, grade downgrade, loss of pay or termination. The Mayor and Prosecutor refuse to make police chokeholds illegal as there may be situations where it would be effective. Also remember in this case the suspect physically RESISTED arrest which triggered a higher level of police response. This is not to say that the policeman could be charged with negligent homicide (see the recent Reeva case in South Africa) but a conviction would not necessarily mean any prison time for the officer.

A grand jury operates at the request of the prosecutor. The only reason a prosecutor goes to the GJ is to get backing for an indictment. The prosecutor controls what evidence is brought to the GJ and so can "stack the deck." The GJ cannot conduct an independent investigation. So it's not a question of whether the GJ acted suspicious. It's the prosecutor.

A grand jury is not mandatory for indictment. The prosecutor in the Brown case and this case could still bring charges against the officer. But there does seem to be a trend for prosecutors dealing with allegations of police brutality to use the GJ as a defense for police actions. A prosecutor can request an independent investigator but then he might as well quit - a municipal prosecutor is an elected position and asking for an independent investigator is asking not to be re-elected. However, the municipal authority (town council, city mayor, state governor) can bring in an independent investigator into the case. That act would have to be measured carefully since they too are elected officials and appearing to be soft on crime does not help re-election.

[Ulysses G.]

Now THIS is a travesty. From all the evidence that I have seen, these police were not out to murder this guy, but they acted illegally with the choke-hold that caused Eric Garner's death. . Some sort of charges should have been filed. The Grand Jury in Ferguson acted properly, but this one seems suspicious.

While NYC has a ban on chokeholds by police, it's not a criminal offence but a work-related procedural violation.

Well that explains the Grand Juries' decision. I had gotten the idea from news reports that it was illegal. It certainly is a shame it happened though.

Edited December 4, 2014 by Ulysses G.

[hobz]

Now THIS is a travesty. From all the evidence that I have seen, these police were not out to murder this guy, but they acted illegally with the choke-hold that caused Eric Garner's death. . Some sort of charges should have been filed. The Grand Jury in Ferguson acted properly, but this one seems suspicious.

Go to youtube and search graciebreakdown, they did an episode of this case. It was not the choke that killed him

[submaniac]

The Ex was LAPD and showed me this chokehold. It is designed to cut off blood to the carotid arteries. When it was shown to me, you begin to lose consciousness immediately. You will be unconscious in less than 10 seconds. Use of this chokehold is banned by the LAPD and it is considered deadly force--i.e. the only time you can use it is in a circumstance in which you would be authorized to use a gun. The reason is that alot of people were being killed by it. It is safe on someone who is healthy, but someone who is not it can easily result in death. I'm one of those folks who has medical conditions where it would result in death. This chokehold should never have been allowed to be used.

[Chicog]

Also remember in this case the suspect physically RESISTED arrest which triggered a higher level of police response.

Judge for yourself. I don't even see them administering CPR. They murdered him.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j1ka4oKu1jo

Edited December 4, 2014 by Chicog

[arjunadawn]

Now THIS is a travesty. From all the evidence that I have seen, these police were not out to murder this guy, but they acted illegally with the choke-hold that caused Eric Garner's death. . Some sort of charges should have been filed. The Grand Jury in Ferguson acted properly, but this one seems suspicious.

"The Grand Jury in Ferguson acted properly ..."

A conservative Supreme Court judge (appointed by Ronald Reagan) would beg to disagree.

Justice Scalia Explains What Was Wrong With The Ferguson Grand Jury

It is the grand jury’s function not ‘to enquire … upon what foundation [the charge may be] denied,’ or otherwise to try the suspect’s defenses, but only to examine ‘upon what foundation [the charge] is made’ by the prosecutor. Respublica v. Shaffer, 1 Dall. 236 (O. T. Phila. 1788); see also F. Wharton, Criminal Pleading and Practice § 360, pp. 248-249 (8th ed. 1880). As a consequence, neither in this country nor in England has the suspect under investigation by the grand jury ever been thought to have a right to testify or to have exculpatory evidence presented.

http://thinkprogress.org/justice/2014/11/26/3597322/justice-scalia-explains-what-was-wrong-with-the-ferguson-grand-jury/

Under common law/US Law, it makes no difference what anyone thinks, including Scalia, or the whole Nine Robed Destroyers assembled. A grand jury is the highest expression of the will of the people and its power is considerable. I am skeptical that the Grand Jury has a function, as Scalia suggests, that is so limited. Once sitting, the power is immense. A grand jury only hears evidence from the prosecution! What is admissible is considerable. For them to find no reason to recommend prosecution suggests it was a bridge too far. In the NY case, I agree with UG, this is murder under the color of authority.

White? Black? Doesn't matter; it was murder and they should move quickly to a civil trial where the burden of proof is much lower, and this video will destroy them in court. At least the man can have justice and accountability through that venue.

[Tywais]

A racist post and reply to it removed.

[Credo]

The Ex was LAPD and showed me this chokehold. It is designed to cut off blood to the carotid arteries. When it was shown to me, you begin to lose consciousness immediately. You will be unconscious in less than 10 seconds. Use of this chokehold is banned by the LAPD and it is considered deadly force--i.e. the only time you can use it is in a circumstance in which you would be authorized to use a gun. The reason is that alot of people were being killed by it. It is safe on someone who is healthy, but someone who is not it can easily result in death. I'm one of those folks who has medical conditions where it would result in death. This chokehold should never have been allowed to be used.

I think the point is that it is not allowed, but it isn't against the law and that's the reason for no indictment.

It's a little like tasers, they can and have been lethal. I believe in the UK recently a guy got tasered and died.

Years ago, I remember the police had public relations programs to help both the community and the police understand each other and how things worked. It might be a good idea to go back to a bit more PR on both sides.

It would be good if people learned that it is really a wise idea to do as your told by the police, even if you don't agree with them. It's good to live long enough to have your day in court.

[arjunadawn]

The Ex was LAPD and showed me this chokehold. It is designed to cut off blood to the carotid arteries. When it was shown to me, you begin to lose consciousness immediately. You will be unconscious in less than 10 seconds. Use of this chokehold is banned by the LAPD and it is considered deadly force--i.e. the only time you can use it is in a circumstance in which you would be authorized to use a gun. The reason is that alot of people were being killed by it. It is safe on someone who is healthy, but someone who is not it can easily result in death. I'm one of those folks who has medical conditions where it would result in death. This chokehold should never have been allowed to be used.

The carotid bodies lie on both sides of the neck in carotid arteries. These "sensors" are what informs our body of too much co2 or too little o2, etc, and drives respiration, which drives all life functions.. I would not be surprised at all if this man suffered as a direct consequence of this hold, rather than pre existing conditions which "could not have been foreseen by the officer at the time." One or two level headed cops could have carried out this arrest with patience and a bit of negotiating. It is not necessarily to violently inflict your will on a citizen. A citizen generally has no obligation to be be agreeable, and the man was not yet belligerent= just upset. Because of his size (fear) they used overwhelming effort. Scumbags!

Note: A blind man could see that an obese man, with hands cuffed behind his back, and a considerable pot belly, has no diaphragmatic effort- he was going into respiratory acidosis while we watched. It is grossly negligent not to use at least two cuffs to extend his breathing ability. Without doubt, IMO, cause of death is related to respiratory acidosis and injury to the carotid bodies. I was anxious watching this man slowly suffocate; what a terrible way to die-- on your front porch.

[muffy]

The police were doing the job they are paid to do . the problem is those people have no respect for the law or anything . All he had to do was put his hands behind his back when told to . He was a physical wreck and died from the life style he chose .

[MaxYakov]

Now THIS is a travesty. From all the evidence that I have seen, these police were not out to murder this guy, but they acted illegally with the choke-hold that caused Eric Garner's death. . Some sort of charges should have been filed. The Grand Jury in Ferguson acted properly, but this one seems suspicious.

And that "evidence" would be? And of course the grand jury scrutinized and considered that evidence, yes?

[Credo]

I very much feel sorry for this man and his family. I also feel sorry for the policeman.

So basically, the police are wrong if they shoot, they are wrong if they taser and they are wrong if they touch.

It seems like it's a good time to not be a law-abiding person.

Perhaps all police calls should have a doctor present?

Edited December 4, 2014 by Credo

[akentryan]

Another quality individual and he had been white the same thing would have happened to him. Per the report I read Garner had 31 prior arrests. He is also the father of six children. Is this how he supports them? He looks like he hasn't missed many meals - are they on food stamps, subsidized housing, free medical care,etc? The report also said the chokehold "could have contributed" to his death - not that it caused it.

[fvw53]

One of the big issues in the US is that in most of the States, law enforcement at several levels is elected (sheriffs, district attorneys, judges, etc...)

This morning on CNN the always balanced Jeffrey Toobin (a former Federal Prosecutor) said that the crowds in NYC Manhattan may be angry with the outcome but the district attorney of the borough NYC Staten Island were he called for a grand jury would only care about the opinion of the mostly middle and upper class white people electing him in his borough.

Six years ago there was an article in the New York Times raising the same concern about elected law enforcement

http://www.nytimes.com/2008/05/25/us/25exception.html?pagewanted=all&_r=1&

I know it is easy to make this observation from my side sitting on the fence...but the article is the NYT speaks for itself

[Chicog]

I got a "humourous" post the other day, but maybe it's not so funny after all.

A guide to US Holidays"

"Thanksgiving Day - a day when people give thanks that they haven't been shot".

"Black Friday - a day when it's OK to kill Black people (can be repeated every week)".

[car720]

The Ex was LAPD and showed me this chokehold. It is designed to cut off blood to the carotid arteries. When it was shown to me, you begin to lose consciousness immediately. You will be unconscious in less than 10 seconds. Use of this chokehold is banned by the LAPD and it is considered deadly force--i.e. the only time you can use it is in a circumstance in which you would be authorized to use a gun. The reason is that alot of people were being killed by it. It is safe on someone who is healthy, but someone who is not it can easily result in death. I'm one of those folks who has medical conditions where it would result in death. This chokehold should never have been allowed to be used.

I think the point is that it is not allowed, but it isn't against the law and that's the reason for no indictment.

It's a little like tasers, they can and have been lethal. I believe in the UK recently a guy got tasered and died.

Years ago, I remember the police had public relations programs to help both the community and the police understand each other and how things worked. It might be a good idea to go back to a bit more PR on both sides.

It would be good if people learned that it is really a wise idea to do as your told by the police, even if you don't agree with them. It's good to live long enough to have your day in court.

The flip side is that there exists a cowboy mentality and that people who love violence are drawn to these jobs and these scenarios.

I recall in England on the other hand, seeing one lone bobby (a little guy too) without even a baton, taking on and controlling 3 very hard men. He didn't need his gun or baton or tazer. He just controlled the situation.

In the picture the guy seems to be relishing his actions. My opinion only but for me they are like nasty children with weapons.

[muffy]

All the police or just the ones you know ? Didn't see any Bobbies go to jail on the subway shooting and rightfully so .

[DM07]

I see: TV's most compassionate are out again!

He broke the law, so it was basically sort of okay'ish to kill him!

I mean...punish, yes...not actually kill...but now it happened, so....oh, he had it coming, didn't he?!

[Ulysses G.]

Now THIS is a travesty. From all the evidence that I have seen, these police were not out to murder this guy, but they acted illegally with the choke-hold that caused Eric Garner's death. . Some sort of charges should have been filed. The Grand Jury in Ferguson acted properly, but this one seems suspicious.

And that "evidence" would be? And of course the grand jury scrutinized and considered that evidence, yes?

The video evidence, but you are right that the Grand Jury looked at much more. Also, one former policeman working as a commentator, said that the police were using a headlock, rather th,an a choke-hold, which is much less dangerous.

[Ulysses G.]

I really like this guy and respect his legal opinions. He says the Ferguson decision was justified, but not this one.

Fox News’ Judge Andrew Napolitano is really up in arms about the Eric Garner grand jury, telling Hugh Hewitt today that the encounter “is clearly a case for criminally negligent homicide.”

He said that Garner wasn’t wrestling for the gun, so there was no serious fear for the cop’s life here. To Napolitano, this just came down to “choking to death a mentally impaired, grossly obese person, whose only crime was selling cigarettes without collecting taxes on them.”

http://www.mediaite.com/online/foxs-napolitano-garner-clearly-a-case-for-criminally-negligent-homicide/

[Chicog]

He said that Garner wasn’t wrestling for the gun, so there was no serious fear for the cop’s life here. To Napolitano, this just came down to “choking to death a mentally impaired, grossly obese person, whose only crime was selling cigarettes without collecting taxes on them.”

http://www.mediaite.com/online/foxs-napolitano-garner-clearly-a-case-for-criminally-negligent-homicide/

Shocking really. Fraudulently acquire billions of dollars and you don't even get a slap on the wrist.

Deny the tax man a handful of dollars and it's the death penalty without even a trial.

Edited December 4, 2014 by Chicog

[jsflynn603]

Now THIS is a travesty. From all the evidence that I have seen, these police were not out to murder this guy, but they acted illegally with the choke-hold that caused Eric Garner's death. . Some sort of charges should have been filed. The Grand Jury in Ferguson acted properly, but this one seems suspicious.

Go to youtube and search graciebreakdown, they did an episode of this case. It was not the choke that killed him

To echo what another person who watched that video said: “I guess a video of a cop choking a man to death isn't enough evidence to prove a cop choked a man to death.”

This video is created by lead defensive tactics instructors of the Gracie Survival Tactics (GST) program for law enforcement….

IT’S AN ADVERTISEMENT AIMED TO DRUM UP BUSINESS -- NOTHING MORE

Read what is said below the video:

“In the wake of this unfortunate incident, Ryron and Rener are formally inviting any NYPD Defensive Tactics Training Staff Coordinators to participate in any Gracie Survival Tactics 5-day Instructor Certification Course in 2014 for free. If you qualify for this opportunity, simply contact the Gracie Academy at [email protected] and we'll sort out the details.”

And if coordinator’s participate in their “free” course---guess how many new police officers will come and pay?

It’s worth repeating: ““I guess a video of a cop choking a man to death isn't enough evidence to prove a cop choked a man to death.”

Brutality.

[ggt]

There must be some form of reform in the handling of police cases where they have killed an individual...Presently the determination of whether a policemen is charged is within the police culture...other police, prosecuting attorney, grand jury and judges are all sympathetic to the policemen...

An independent investigation must be used to satisfy the public that the system is not rigged in the policeman's favor...

America's police departments have become more like the military...heavily armed swat teams are used far too often...calling the police to investigate a dispute could be the death of you...people are more afraid of the police now...than at any time in US history...

They are paid to serve and protect...not take the law into their own hands...and become executioners...