Surge of reported police harassment suggests campaign targeting tourists, expats

[EyesWideOpen]

Beetlejuice posted :

"And another typical extremist viewpoint, that tries to push having a relative in the Thai police force should be something to be ashamed of a profession of ill repute.

Of course you people hate any opposition that may divert your trying to manipulate the gullible and the easy influenced that Thailand is the pits. You only substantiate what I said previously and if anyone should be suspect, if should be you. What are your motives behind this?

Are you really saying that the police and those of authority in Thailand are all corrupt without exception? If this is your meaning, then who are you that is insistent on pushing this view onto the masses? I have displayed my true colours that I do have relatives in the police force and much of my background here in Thailand in the past. So now show your true colours and explain your attacks on Thailand and what motivates you?

As for what you describe as balanced perspectives, please give your sources that the activities of the police in the OP is based on corruption and underhanded money making activities. So either put up or shut up because you hold no credibility whatsoever."

" Me thinketh the lady does protest too much". The Bard.

Regarding corruption, your mock indignation is amusing at best, and makes you look somewhat foolish if you have relatives in the police department and still do not know what is going on.

The recent story about ranking police positions being sold for 3 to 5 million baht should be a

tip off to you. Hmm let me think....Why in the world would anybody pay that much money for a job that in essence pays peanuts ? Think carefully before you answer..... :-) So if the police are crooked at the very top, necessarily they would be crooked at the bottom.

And on a side note, I assume you really do not want me to post up the endless links to stories of Thai police corruption. That would be boring for the other posters. So to help you out, just go to google, type in " Thai police corruption", and see what comes up. And if you really want to see a bit of history showing how the Thai police operate, do research on the Blue Diamond affair. One of my personal favorite stories....

I actually really like Thailand, and have been here a long time. It is the police that are

the pits. But lest you think this is the views of a bitter farang, clearly this viewpoint is also held by many others, including the current government. Hence the calls to reform the " Royal" Thai police due to massive corruption. Do some reading before you make yourself look more foolish.

And regarding the OP, this is really not corruption. It is just a pure shakedown, a favorite

tactic of the mafia. The classic pay up or you will have a big problem. If the police were actually interested in stopping drugs, instead of accosting tourists at the Asoke intersection, they would move down to Soi 3 where they could have a field day. Oh wait that is a different jurisdiction,

and the police there seem to care less. The Thai police do NOTHING unless money is involved.

Edited December 6, 2014 by EyesWideOpen

[granuaile]

You should really go to a different thread, if you disagree so much. And, I didn't say that, under your logic.

Another thread is not what concerns me, rather spurious allegations against the RTP.

Perhaps if you want to make a genuine contribution to this topic it would be in the form of presenting facts and evidence rather than just screaming about the alleged abuses of power by police. Prove it.... The one person here who posted what may be a credible account admitted he has been repeatedly targeted (so hardly random) and that he indeed had smoked cannabis albeit not in Thailand. I sympathize with him, but again he was not randomly singled out.

[John1thru10]

You should really go to a different thread, if you disagree so much. And, I didn't say that, under your logic.

Another thread is not what concerns me, rather spurious allegations against the RTP.

Perhaps if you want to make a genuine contribution to this topic it would be in the form of presenting facts and evidence rather than just screaming about the alleged abuses of power by police. Prove it.... The one person here who posted what may be a credible account admitted he has been repeatedly targeted (so hardly random) and that he indeed had smoked cannabis albeit not in Thailand. I sympathize with him, but again he was not randomly singled out.

You refused to address many other things I presented to you, already, which are completely factual. You utterly ignored the matters of voting, newsites being blocked, human rights sites being blocked, a notable drop in human rights evaluation from the outside world, and Thai attitudes towards the police in general for countless generations; but then you turn around and claim that anything related to that would have to be made up. That makes no sense, outside of a denialist attitude. And, these current stories are in every way related to those very factual events. You are only trying to put down other foreigners here for speaking about it, and that is not intelligent of you.

If you're capable of turning a blind eye to the matters I've mentioned above (which you have utterly ignored), then what is your credibility on subjects integrally related to it?

Again, you should at least stop harassing people for being concerned about corruption and intimidation. That is what you're doing here, and it isn't right.

Edited December 6, 2014 by John1thru10

[bigwhitewarrior]

They just don't want tourist anymore !

Everyday another attempt to stop tourists from choosing Thailand as a travel destination.....

Maybe an open letter to the PM ?

[granuaile]

Truly, what a hypocrite you are in every post you make here. I often have the sense that Americans aren't the most mentally ambitious individuals, particularly when from rural areas; and you certainly exemplify this. I suggest you study history, for starters, rather than simply arguing over the internet that someone else 'prove' things to you; particularly when you have no interest in learning about those things.

You also conveniently refused to address many other things I presented you, already. You completely ignored the matters of voting, newsites being blocked, human rights sites being blocked, and Thai attitudes towards the police in general for countless generations now. Do you claim that to notice those things means a person doesn't 'love' Thailand, also?

If you're capable of turning a blind eye to those matters, then what is YOUR credibility. You are a real hypocrite, lady. Again, you should at least stop harassing people for being concerned about corruption and intimidation. And, that is what you are doing; whether you have the courage to face that or not.

What you reveal here is that you have a political ax to grind here on issues that are outside the issue of this thread. The issue here is an increase in random RTP searches in the Asoke area, which are apparently spurious. I found websites blocked under both the Democrat and PT governments, so it is really a non-issue and is not uncommon around the world. Voting is not an issue for foreigners here to get involved with - a process that has in the recent past been tainted by corruption and vote-buying; that is an issue for the Thai people, who by and large are supportive of the current government's efforts. Human rights abuses? Where? I've seen far more in the USA than here.

So please if this thread is of such import to you, prove the position you support. Show proof of the alleged abuses in the Asoke area? Despite your repeated bleating here, you have done nothing but attempt to hijack this thread to espouse your political agenda...

Grainne

[John1thru10]

Truly, what a hypocrite you are in every post you make here. I often have the sense that Americans aren't the most mentally ambitious individuals, particularly when from rural areas; and you certainly exemplify this. I suggest you study history, for starters, rather than simply arguing over the internet that someone else 'prove' things to you; particularly when you have no interest in learning about those things.

You also conveniently refused to address many other things I presented you, already. You completely ignored the matters of voting, newsites being blocked, human rights sites being blocked, and Thai attitudes towards the police in general for countless generations now. Do you claim that to notice those things means a person doesn't 'love' Thailand, also?

If you're capable of turning a blind eye to those matters, then what is YOUR credibility. You are a real hypocrite, lady. Again, you should at least stop harassing people for being concerned about corruption and intimidation. And, that is what you are doing; whether you have the courage to face that or not.

What you reveal here is that you have a political ax to grind here on issues that are outside the issue of this thread. The issue here is an increase in random RTP searches in the Asoke area, which are apparently spurious. I found websites blocked under both the Democrat and PT governments, so it is really a non-issue and is not uncommon around the world. Voting is not an issue for foreigners here to get involved with - a process that has in the recent past been tainted by corruption and vote-buying; that is an issue for the Thai people, who by and large are supportive of the current government's efforts. Human rights abuses? Where? I've seen far more in the USA than here.

So please if this thread is of such import to you, prove the position you support. Show proof of the alleged abuses in the Asoke area? Despite your repeated bleating here, you have done nothing but attempt to hijack this thread to espouse your political agenda...

Grainne

THERE you go, right there: you say they are 'apparently spurious'. Evidence of their being 'spurious': now. The only thing I see are you, and another guy equally in denial, simply writing that you don't believe it. Your own posts here are not 'evidence', and far less valid than people (far more people than this one OP) recounting a personal experience.

Then you go on to say I've hijacked a thread, by speaking about the issue that the thread is about. That makes no sense. All of it from you, are just different ways to say that everyone needs to adopt your attitude or are somehow 'bad' people for it, and that is ridiculously oppressive on your part.

Living in a cloud is your right. But not a requirement for others at your demand.

PS - once again, you completely downplayed all the issues I mentioned, and it's more than cold hearted on your part, towards Thai people. Let me ask you something: do you even have Thai friends? I'm sure you'll say that you do, but it doesn't sound like it. You call it an 'axe to grind' for caring about what happens here, and that is ridiculous of you.

Edited December 6, 2014 by John1thru10

[granuaile]

THERE you go, right there: you say they are 'apparently spurious'. Evidence of their being 'spurious': now. The only thing I see are you, and another guy equally in denial, simply writing that you don't believe it. Your own posts here are not 'evidence', and far less valid than people (far more people than this one OP) recounting a personal experience.

Then you go on to say I've hijacked a thread, by speaking about the issue that the thread is about. That makes no sense. All of it from you, are just different ways to say that everyone needs to adopt your attitude or are somehow 'bad' people for it, and that is ridiculously oppressive on your part.

Living in a cloud is your right. But not a requirement for others at your demand.

PS - once again, you completely downplayed all the issues I mentioned, and it's more than cold hearted on your part, towards Thai people. Let me ask you something: do you even have Thai friends? I'm sure you'll say that you do, but it doesn't sound like it. You call it an 'axe to grind' for caring about what happens here, and that is ridiculous of you.

If an allegation is made, there needs to be proof - real proof - not just unverified accounts. And I said you have a political ax to grind. Other posters here may or may not have such, but you make that plain here by your repeated efforts to inject criticisms of the current government into a discussion - thus far unproven - of stepped up random searches targeting foreigners. The issue in this thread is not elections or human rights issues, topics you attempt to inject.

Edited December 6, 2014 by granuaile

[John1thru10]

THERE you go, right there: you say they are 'apparently spurious'. Evidence of their being 'spurious': now. You have none.

Then you go on to say I've hijacked a thread, by speaking about the issue that the thread is about. That makes no sense. All of it from you, are just different ways to say that everyone needs to adopt your attitude or are somehow 'bad' people for it, and that is ridiculously arrogant on your part.

You are completely out of it, lady. I'm rather sickened by you, actually.

If an allegation is made, there needs to be proof - real proof - not just unverified accounts. And I said you have a political ax to grind. Other posters here may or may not have such, but you make that plain here by your repeated efforts to inject criticisms of the current government into a discussion - thus far unproven - of stepped up random searches targeting foreigners. The issue in this thread is not elections or human rights issues, topics you attempt to inject.

Wow, how desperate you are to cast aspersions and oppress discussion. And, you have the audacity to say that others have a political motivation? You sound like Mao. And yes, those other issues are certainly related, as this is a discussion of unwarranted searches targeting foreigners IMMEDIATELY AFTER a coup which resulted in those things simultaneously. That you can't even relate those issues in your mind, is real evidence of complete ignorance on your part.

I love Thailand, and no I do not have a political axe to grind. Certainly not in general, at least. It's your ignorance and argumentative denialism, which is clearly a person issue for you, that is so offensive.

You know what: I'm just going to block you, because I find you very irrelevant and argumentative apparently just for sake of it. Your thoughts here are just purposely offensive to people.

Edited December 6, 2014 by John1thru10

[jspill]

As for what you describe as balanced perspectives, please give your sources that the activities of the police in the OP is based on corruption and underhanded money making activities. So either put up or shut up because you hold no credibility whatsoever.

Thailand ranks 102nd / 177 on the 2013 global corruption country rankings http://englishnews.thaipbs.or.th/thailand-slips-global-corruption-survey

Grading based on how corrupt a nation's public sector (police are public sector employees) is perceived to be (by locals polled).

The United Nations famously labelling the Thai police 'at best a criminal organisation' in 2009 - http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/234946-thai-police-are-organized-criminals/

[granuaile]

Wow, how desperate you are to cast aspersions and oppress discussion. And, you have the audacity to say that others have a political motivation? You sound like Mao. And yes, those other issues are certainly related, as this is a discussion of unwarranted searches targeting foreigner IMMEDIATELY AFTER A COUP which has also resulted in those other things. Wow...that you can't connect that in your mind is....well, just wow.

I'm not the one sounding desperate.

The phrase you posted in all caps shows your real motive, and actually is factually inaccurate as the current allegations are 6 months after the military's actions last May, which put an end to the violence and intimidation directed at protesters and which resulted in the murders of several children.

The issues you attempted to interject were far more relevant prior to military intervention than they are now.

I was in that area 6 days ago and didn't even see a single police officer so I know from my experience this claim is spurious.

[John1thru10]

Wow, how desperate you are to cast aspersions and oppress discussion. And, you have the audacity to say that others have a political motivation? You sound like Mao. And yes, those other issues are certainly related, as this is a discussion of unwarranted searches targeting foreigner IMMEDIATELY AFTER A COUP which has also resulted in those other things. Wow...that you can't connect that in your mind is....well, just wow.

I'm not the one sounding desperate.

The phrase you posted in all caps shows your real motive, and actually is factually inaccurate as the current allegations are 6 months after the military's actions last May, which put an end to the violence and intimidation directed at protesters and which resulted in the murders of several children.

The issues you attempted to interject were far more relevant prior to military intervention than they are now.

I was in that area 6 days ago and didn't even see a single police officer so I know from my experience this claim is spurious.

It's not even half a year later, so implying that it's ancient history somehow, is utterly ridiculous. The things I was referring to, were actually all very well documented recent events, not 'before'. And, while I'm not usually one to be shouting about politics (truly, I'm not), and I was actually not so in support of the protests eariler. It's that your utter denial of news events is just so strange. It's like you're desperate not to look at something else, and...if anything, lady...that's what sounds like a personal motivation. I realize you're only going to argue, and try to prove how superior your imaginings are. That's the American way, sadly. But, one day or one night, you're going to realize some things here. It won't mean you 'don't love Thailand'. It will mean that you aren't purposely painting a false image in your mind for your own convenience, though. To me, quite honestly, the people who excuse human rights abuses in order to enjoy their 'bisquits and gravy' without discomfort...are as bad as the sex tourists. To me, you are rather similar in nature; just different things you seek. You both oppress, and ignore for convenience.

Edited December 6, 2014 by John1thru10

[Fab5BKK]

THERE you go, right there: you say they are 'apparently spurious'. Evidence of their being 'spurious': now. The only thing I see are you, and another guy equally in denial, simply writing that you don't believe it. Your own posts here are not 'evidence', and far less valid than people (far more people than this one OP) recounting a personal experience.

Then you go on to say I've hijacked a thread, by speaking about the issue that the thread is about. That makes no sense. All of it from you, are just different ways to say that everyone needs to adopt your attitude or are somehow 'bad' people for it, and that is ridiculously oppressive on your part.

Living in a cloud is your right. But not a requirement for others at your demand.

PS - once again, you completely downplayed all the issues I mentioned, and it's more than cold hearted on your part, towards Thai people. Let me ask you something: do you even have Thai friends? I'm sure you'll say that you do, but it doesn't sound like it. You call it an 'axe to grind' for caring about what happens here, and that is ridiculous of you.

If an allegation is made, there needs to be proof - real proof - not just unverified accounts. And I said you have a political ax to grind. Other posters here may or may not have such, but you make that plain here by your repeated efforts to inject criticisms of the current government into a discussion - thus far unproven - of stepped up random searches targeting foreigners. The issue in this thread is not elections or human rights issues, topics you attempt to inject.

Intensive use of rosy lenses might damage your brains

Hilarious and truly pathetic

Edited December 6, 2014 by Fab5BKK

[Fat Haggis]

Strathclyde police have <deleted> in their ranks too, so does every force on the planet!!

[granuaile]

It's not even half a year later, so implying that it's ancient history somehow, is utterly ridiculous. The things I was referring to, were actually all recent events, not 'before'. And, while I'm not usualy one to be shouting about politics (truly, I'm not), your utter denial of news events in that regard is strange, at best. It's obvious you are afraid to look at those things, and for personal motivations, and that I leave with you.

The military's intervention to take over was on May 22, it is now December 6 - that is not "immediately" by any definition. That said, again you post absolute nothing of substance.

You said you were going to block me.... please do keep your promises...

Grainne

[mataleo]

There is another report of faked test results on a farang and his thai gf.

Facebook

20k each

Edited December 6, 2014 by mataleo

[Beetlejuice]

...

Could it be we have a few drama queens on Thaivisa?

More than a few, many with an ax to grind, many who jump on the wagon to bash Thai people and Thailand. If they are actually even here, they have the choice to leave and if they hate it so much they should. I would suggest Syria or Iraq to them... There is a significant group here who will seize any opportunity to criticize this country and its people. If these people are the ones being targeted maybe it is because their attitude shows through. I definitely shouldn't let them annoy me. as they really post without substance and facts (even the so-called first hand accounts are not independently verifiable) but honestly I love Thailand and the people here. Thailand has been very good to me, and I'm grateful for the ability to live here.

You blithely tell complete strangers to leave the country they live in, and yet, you won't even go to the trouble to find a new thread to comment on.

I deeply resent you saying repeatedly that people are 'bashing' Thailand for being concerned about police corruption and intimidation, because I happen to love this country and many of it's citizens very dearly, for quite a while now. Promoting a fantasy image, as you are in your statements of 'everything's great, don't talk about it', does not make you a more deserving person; it means you are ignorant about a country's history and what it's like to be a citizen in that country. The average lower class Thai citizens' view of the police is one of fear and utter distrust; used to shakedowns and intimidation and corruption as a fact of daily life. This is not my 'opinion', these are the daily descriptions from Thai people over years now.

These aren't 'radicals' I'm referring to, either. These are the people cooking the food you eat, emptying your garbage, and driving you around; you just don't notice them, and believe that if they smile it means everything's 'great'. That you could be so vastly out of touch with how they feel, while describing yourself as 'loving Thailand' more than others, casts you as the 'ugly American', if there ever were one.

You don't even consider it worth mentioning that they have recently lost the ability to vote, for example. You don't mention that they have blocked access to human rights websites. You don't mention that they don't have a free press, and expelled foreign journalists, and block newssites which report on them from outside. You just don't care, in fact. You think that they should be happy (or worse, you think they 'are' happy) accepting conditions you never would in your home country. What does that say about you?

And secondly, all you do here for days now, is say that people targeted for police shakedowns 'deserve it'. That's an awful thing to say, in any country. Here you repeat it again (despite having been very long winded earlier denying that you would ever say that). You justify that extremely negative attitude by projecting all the worst qualities on whoever that happens to; Civil rights leaders throughout history have had to struggle against attitudes like yours. I am certainly no civil rights leader, but I do find your attitudes extremely out of touch with reality.

A close friend of mine is married to the former US Embassador to Thailand. A very close friend is head of the Crisis Group at the United Nations, who are very concerned about recent events. I originally came here at the invitation of a person doing choreography for the Royal Family, and I fell in love with this country and it's culture, and have spent the last 5 years (as an artist) studying Thai religious symbolism and history (I'm a history buff, and I can tell from some of your other comments that you definitely are not, by the way). Are you really going to tell me that I don't love Thailand? SHAME on you. I've just matured past the point of thinking my own pleasures are more important than other peoples realities; a level of maturity you apparently haven't reached. I can dearly love a place without being blind as to it's problems. And I can be concerned about other people, even if I haven't experienced everything they have.

So again, why don't you just move to a different thread, before you start casting judgments like how everyone else should leave a country they love. And don't you dare tell other people that they don't care about Thailand for simply being more knowledgeable than you apparently are, and concerned to see corruption as described in these accounts. Shame on you, for your obstinate and purposeful ignorance. Your motivation is selfish, laziness.

It is how I said; that these extremists try to overpower those who may go against the grain with them They believe that they have a monopoly on these threads and other posters as intruders.

These fools are no longer worthy of a reply. For those who live and are doing alright in Thailand or intend to live long term in Thailand would be wise not to follow these extremists on this forum and social networking websites. Follow one of the golden rules and don`t get involved otherwise they could serious mess things up for you here, which their intentions.

That`s my advice and up to those who follow these clowns own risk and discretion.

[John1thru10]

It's not even half a year later, so implying that it's ancient history somehow, is utterly ridiculous. The things I was referring to, were actually all recent events, not 'before'. And, while I'm not usualy one to be shouting about politics (truly, I'm not), your utter denial of news events in that regard is strange, at best. It's obvious you are afraid to look at those things, and for personal motivations, and that I leave with you.

The military's intervention to take over was on May 22, it is now December 6 - that is not "immediately" by any definition. That said, again you post absolute nothing of substance.

You said you were going to block me.... please do keep your promises...

Grainne

Lady, you just have no sense of history at all. It's kind of shocking. And here is your friend above this, shouting his stuff about how 'listen to them at your own risk!' Wow...that's just scary. I've never been very politically motivated in my life. I'm just an artist, and I have my things I study here in that way, like religious symbolism and architecture, and learn about the culture for 5 years now. Not a drinker, not a sex tourist. And here you are, telling me now that I'm a bad person for noticing things, and a bad person for having studied history in my life and following the news. If you really aren't in touch with the news, yourself; ok, that's your business. But to try to impose that onto others, is not cool.

As I said, I'm not a very political person. But I'm really troubled by how vehemently you and beetlejuice are trying to shame others, on some kind of a moral level, for talking about this. Don't ever tell me again that I don't love Thai people, thanks. Tourists are reporting (all over the place, not just here today) that they were frightened and made to feel like criminals and pee in a cup for walking down the street. That's concerning, and a terrible (terrible) public image. I've lived here long enough that I don't remember a wave of things like that. Even on that level, you have no caring for other people, you have to just dismiss them all that way? That's a weird anger on your part, actually. I don't have to like every tourist I see, in order to care on a basic human level that they felt frightened and intimidated, in a shakedown for bribes. Wake up; that stuff is common in SE Asia, and - apparently - it hasn't stopped all of sudden, simply because of the new govt, but may actually be on the rise.

If that troubles you, then I'm sorry the realities of SE Asia are troubling for you. That's what it sounds like for any experienced person here.

Edited December 6, 2014 by John1thru10

[EyesWideOpen]

Strathclyde police have <deleted> in their ranks too, so does every force on the planet!!

Correct, and no thinking person would say otherwise. However as recent events unfolding

regarding Pongpat , and past events regarding Chalor have proved, in Thailand it is organized corruption from the very top, like a mafia, rather than just a few bad apples like in western countries....But alas , there will be no Serpico here to straighten things out... :-)

Edited December 6, 2014 by EyesWideOpen

[jspill]

There is another report of faked test results on a farang and his thai gf.

Facebook

20k each

link to group?

[mataleo]

There is another report of faked test results on a farang and his thai gf.

Facebook

20k each

link to group?

Its private group u need to be invited

Prv me with ur fb i add u and invite u

Anyone want join it prv me

https://www.facebook.com/groups/562587763877947?ref=m_notif&notif_t=group_comment_reply

[impulse]

There is another report of faked test results on a farang and his thai gf.

Facebook

20k each

Is it dated? Some of the links here are about incidents in past years.

[granuaile]

It is how I said; that these extremists try to overpower those who may go against the grain with them They believe that they have a monopoly on these threads and other posters as intruders.

These fools are no longer worthy of a reply. For those who live and are doing alright in Thailand or intend to live long term in Thailand would be wise not to follow these extremists on this forum and social networking websites. Follow one of the golden rules and don`t get involved otherwise they could serious mess things up for you here, which their intentions.

That`s my advice and up to those who follow these clowns own risk and discretion.

Indeed, your point is well taken Beetlejuice, and their vitriol becomes weaker and weaker as it becomes evident they lack any genuine substance to post. No use debating with those who obviously have an agenda....

[newcomer71]

I'm not the one sounding desperate.

The phrase you posted in all caps shows your real motive, and actually is factually inaccurate as the current allegations are 6 months after the military's actions last May, which put an end to the violence and intimidation directed at protesters and which resulted in the murders of several children.

The issues you attempted to interject were far more relevant prior to military intervention than they are now.

I was in that area 6 days ago and didn't even see a single police officer so I know from my experience this claim is spurious.

Sorry to disturb the "conversation", but if I'm allowed...

To tell that you were there 6 days ago and even did not see a single police officer does not mean anything.

I do frequently walk in that area on daytime, as for work I do visit customers. I often see policemen stopping foreigners and I have been stopped myself.

My personal experience is not bad, as I only showed my passport and work permit and I have been let go. Not the same for some colleague and friend, that have been let go after pay a "tribute".

Free to believe me or not. I think it's a good thing to tell everyone who has to go in that area at least to pay attention.

Edit: messed quote

Edited December 6, 2014 by newcomer71

[EyesWideOpen]

<script type='text/javascript'>window.mod_pagespeed_start = Number(new Date());</script>

...

Could it be we have a few drama queens on Thaivisa? alt=cheesy.gif width=32 height=20>

More than a few, many with an ax to grind, many who jump on the wagon to bash Thai people and Thailand. If they are actually even here, they have the choice to leave and if they hate it so much they should. I would suggest Syria or Iraq to them... There is a significant group here who will seize any opportunity to criticize this country and its people. If these people are the ones being targeted maybe it is because their attitude shows through. I definitely shouldn't let them annoy me. as they really post without substance and facts (even the so-called first hand accounts are not independently verifiable) but honestly I love Thailand and the people here. Thailand has been very good to me, and I'm grateful for the ability to live here.

You blithely tell complete strangers to leave the country they live in, and yet, you won't even go to the trouble to find a new thread to comment on.

I deeply resent you saying repeatedly that people are 'bashing' Thailand for being concerned about police corruption and intimidation, because I happen to love this country and many of it's citizens very dearly, for quite a while now. Promoting a fantasy image, as you are in your statements of 'everything's great, don't talk about it', does not make you a more deserving person; it means you are ignorant about a country's history and what it's like to be a citizen in that country. The average lower class Thai citizens' view of the police is one of fear and utter distrust; used to shakedowns and intimidation and corruption as a fact of daily life. This is not my 'opinion', these are the daily descriptions from Thai people over years now.

These aren't 'radicals' I'm referring to, either. These are the people cooking the food you eat, emptying your garbage, and driving you around; you just don't notice them, and believe that if they smile it means everything's 'great'. That you could be so vastly out of touch with how they feel, while describing yourself as 'loving Thailand' more than others, casts you as the 'ugly American', if there ever were one.

You don't even consider it worth mentioning that they have recently lost the ability to vote, for example. You don't mention that they have blocked access to human rights websites. You don't mention that they don't have a free press, and expelled foreign journalists, and block newssites which report on them from outside. You just don't care, in fact. You think that they should be happy (or worse, you think they 'are' happy) accepting conditions you never would in your home country. What does that say about you?

And secondly, all you do here for days now, is say that people targeted for police shakedowns 'deserve it'. That's an awful thing to say, in any country. Here you repeat it again (despite having been very long winded earlier denying that you would ever say that). You justify that extremely negative attitude by projecting all the worst qualities on whoever that happens to; Civil rights leaders throughout history have had to struggle against attitudes like yours. I am certainly no civil rights leader, but I do find your attitudes extremely out of touch with reality.

A close friend of mine is married to the former US Embassador to Thailand. A very close friend is head of the Crisis Group at the United Nations, who are very concerned about recent events. I originally came here at the invitation of a person doing choreography for the Royal Family, and I fell in love with this country and it's culture, and have spent the last 5 years (as an artist) studying Thai religious symbolism and history (I'm a history buff, and I can tell from some of your other comments that you definitely are not, by the way). Are you really going to tell me that I don't love Thailand? SHAME on you. I've just matured past the point of thinking my own pleasures are more important than other peoples realities; a level of maturity you apparently haven't reached. I can dearly love a place without being blind as to it's problems. And I can be concerned about other people, even if I haven't experienced everything they have.

So again, why don't you just move to a different thread, before you start casting judgments like how everyone else should leave a country they love. And don't you dare tell other people that they don't care about Thailand for simply being more knowledgeable than you apparently are, and concerned to see corruption as described in these accounts. Shame on you, for your obstinate and purposeful ignorance. Your motivation is selfish, laziness.

It is how I said; that these extremists try to overpower those who may go against the grain with them They believe that they have a monopoly on these threads and other posters as intruders.

These fools are no longer worthy of a reply. For those who live and are doing alright in Thailand or intend to live long term in Thailand would be wise not to follow these extremists on this forum and social networking websites. Follow one of the golden rules and don`t get involved otherwise they could serious mess things up for you here, which their intentions.

That`s my advice and up to those who follow these clowns own risk and discretion.

Hmmm a veiled threat..... Nice touch !!! :-) Your ad hominem attacks are not going well,

time to bring out threats. I have a feeling the Thai police are really hating social media right now.

Edited December 6, 2014 by EyesWideOpen

[harrry]

Beetlejuice has stated on this forum before that he has relatives on the police force. So do

not look to his posts for any kind of balanced perspective regarding money raising activities

of the " Royal" Thai police......

And another typical extremist viewpoint, that tries to push having a relative in the Thai police force should be something to be ashamed of a profession of ill repute.

Of course you people hate any opposition that may divert your trying to manipulate the gullible and the easy influenced that Thailand is the pits. You only substantiate what I said previously and if anyone should be suspect, if should be you. What are your motives behind this?

Are you really saying that the police and those of authority in Thailand are all corrupt without exception? If this is your meaning, then who are you that is insistent on pushing this view onto the masses? I have displayed my true colours that I do have relatives in the police force and much of my background here in Thailand in the past. So now show your true colours and explain your attacks on Thailand and what motivates you?

As for what you describe as balanced perspectives, please give your sources that the activities of the police in the OP is based on corruption and underhanded money making activities. So either put up or shut up because you hold no credibility whatsoever.

You ask if people think the police are corrupt without exception. It would seem so as corruption includes turning a blind eye to it in your fellow officers and it seems obvious that little has been done by those in the police force at the moment to stop it.

[John1thru10]

Hmmm a veiled threat..... Nice touch !!! :-) Your ad hominem attacks are not going well,

time to bring out threats. I have a feeling the Thai police are really hating social media right now.

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I noticed that too! He literally implies that anyone speaking about this matter will somehow be punished for it. That's frightening.

[John1thru10]

Beetlejuice has stated on this forum before that he has relatives on the police force. So do

not look to his posts for any kind of balanced perspective regarding money raising activities

of the " Royal" Thai police......

And another typical extremist viewpoint, that tries to push having a relative in the Thai police force should be something to be ashamed of a profession of ill repute.

Of course you people hate any opposition that may divert your trying to manipulate the gullible and the easy influenced that Thailand is the pits. You only substantiate what I said previously and if anyone should be suspect, if should be you. What are your motives behind this?

Are you really saying that the police and those of authority in Thailand are all corrupt without exception? If this is your meaning, then who are you that is insistent on pushing this view onto the masses? I have displayed my true colours that I do have relatives in the police force and much of my background here in Thailand in the past. So now show your true colours and explain your attacks on Thailand and what motivates you?

As for what you describe as balanced perspectives, please give your sources that the activities of the police in the OP is based on corruption and underhanded money making activities. So either put up or shut up because you hold no credibility whatsoever.

You ask if people think the police are corrupt without exception. It would seem so as corruption includes turning a blind eye to it in your fellow officers and it seems obvious that little has been done by those in the police force at the moment to stop it.

For myself, I have no 'political' interest on that level. I am not a protestor, or an activist, or an extremist. I just think it's really offensive that some officers are reportedly intimidating money out of tourists again recently, as was the custom more often years ago. It's not like there's no historical precedent for it. It's very bad to be shamed for talking about the issue.

I don't want people frightened and intimidated on the streets, regardless of where they come from, or whether I would personally like each of them. It's a very bad public image for Thailand, it's far more than just this one OP recently, and it matters for the future of this beautiful country.

Edited December 6, 2014 by John1thru10

[Loles]

So the best way which wanted by them: DON'T COME HERE JUST SEND THE MONEY ..... (safe for you too)

[kieran2698]

I dont know how true but I heard on a vine that those tourists scoring wee in Nana are getting some kali manga bongo stuff that many bangkok doctors think cause Astynomiaphobia according to some Thai wee lovers that make me wonder why are people still risking life for a lousy deal that is concocked so the toker gets Astynomiaphobia

Phobias are irrational fears, funny though

[Beetlejuice]

It is how I said; that these extremists try to overpower those who may go against the grain with them They believe that they have a monopoly on these threads and other posters as intruders.

These fools are no longer worthy of a reply. For those who live and are doing alright in Thailand or intend to live long term in Thailand would be wise not to follow these extremists on this forum and social networking websites. Follow one of the golden rules and don`t get involved otherwise they could serious mess things up for you here, which their intentions.

That`s my advice and up to those who follow these clowns own risk and discretion.

Indeed, your point is well taken Beetlejuice, and their vitriol becomes weaker and weaker as it becomes evident they lack any genuine substance to post. No use debating with those who obviously have an agenda....

Absolutely.

I think a debate in their case should be described as a, mass debate. Have you noticed that it`s always the same names that keep on overpowering these types of threads and using types of intimidation to get their points across. They actually seem to gang up. Exactly the same ploys used on the koh Tao murder threads and many of these posters are one of the same.

Yes, obviously they have an agenda, they seem determined not to let anyone else state their points of views, especially those that try to give the present ruling party and Thailand a positive image. As you say; it`s pointless fuelling this thread any further and hopefully others with common sense will latch on and ignore these extremists.