Parade for same-sex marriage - Supporters for Equality

[webfact]

Parade for same-sex marriage - Supporters for Equality
By Watsamon Tri-yasakda



BANGKOK: -- Ten couples and hundreds of supporters staged a “marriage parade” recently in traditional Thai style to call for marriage equality in Thailand.

Although political gatherings have been strictly banned since the May coup, the khan-maak style procession was supported by the Bangkok Metropolitan Administration and faced no challenge as participants marched from the Giant Swing to City Hall to bring attention to a campaign for marriage equality in Thailand.



Full story: http://bangkok.coconuts.co/2014/12/15/right-love-marriage-rights-supporters-parade-equality-photo-essay

-- Coconuts Bangkok 2014-12-15

[robertthebruce]

Well done, as much as ''Thailand'' is mega open about being ''Gay/Transexual/Ladyboys/Crossdressers you name it , its not a problem..

so they should come into the 21st Century and allow same sex ''Marriages or Civil Partnership''..

at the end of the day we are all Human, and if thats what they want... ON YOU GO...

[Docno]

Not going to happen while a military government is in place...

[granuaile]

Not going to happen while a military government is in place...

Actually it is much more likely to happen, and something that is being actively lobbied for by some groups.... Whether it happens or not is something that I don't know the answer to, but it is certainly far more likely than previously...

[redman67]

I'm really hoping it does happen I'm in a civil partnership with a Thai and after selling my house we want to move to Thailand. They were going to change the law but the coup put that on the back burner.

[Docno]

Not going to happen while a military government is in place...

Actually it is much more likely to happen, and something that is being actively lobbied for by some groups.... Whether it happens or not is something that I don't know the answer to, but it is certainly far more likely than previously...

Why do you think it's more likely to happen? Military regimes tend to be more morally conservative than the rest of society (the exception being those societies, like Egypt, where there is a large conservative religious element in the civilian population). The military outlook is all about self-discipline and self-denial -- sexuality and sexual orientation are to be left in the shadows (except where they may reinforce the image of machoness). That is why very few militaries in the world are accepting of gay recruits.

Just remember that Prayuth that is encouraging schools to teach "values and moral soundness" through the teaching of his '12 virtues'.

[granuaile]

Why do you think it's more likely to happen? Military regimes tend to be more morally conservative than the rest of society (the exception being those societies, like Egypt, where there is a large conservative religious element in the civilian population). The military outlook is all about self-discipline and self-denial -- sexuality and sexual orientation are to be left in the shadows (except where they may reinforce the image of machoness). That is why very few militaries in the world are accepting of gay recruits.

Just remember that Prayuth that is encouraging schools to teach "values and moral soundness" through the teaching of his '12 virtues'.

This is Thailand, and while in some ways conservative it tends to be far more accepting of gay, lesbian, and trans people, many of whom work for the government quite openly. Before the coup there were moves backed by Democrat members of parliament to allow for civil unions, though with all the other problems the government faced it never progressed far and I am not sure it would have passed under a PT-led government anyway (actually I doubt it would have if only because a Democrat member was promoting it, and here the Democrats are generally seen as the conservatives). While now the slate is clean, there is a segment within the National Reform Council actively promoting greater rights for women as well as for LGBT people. I don't have a crystal ball, but I think the chances are far greater now especially with some in positions that can influence the new constitution as well as shape laws (NRC and NLA) and political divisions no longer a factor. The current government is not just the military, but also government bodies composed of academics, civil servants, and others as well as military and former military. Actually it is a bit of a misnomer to call it a military government, as the PM and others have retired, and the military is not making the rules. I have a bit of faith it will happen now, which would be good for me.... It may not happen but i think more likely than under an elected government. Sometimes non-elected governments have more leeway. I may be completely wrong, but I have a lot of friends in government work here and have never found them anything but accepting and definitely not homophobic. We just have to give it time and see. If it doesn't get passed under the NRC and NLA, then the struggle for it will continue. But I choose to be hopeful... These are of course just my thoughts...

[granuaile]

Just for reference, these are the 12 virtues (source: http://www.thaigov.go.th/en/news-2/item/84749-id84749.html) - and while mentioning morality, an assumption cannot be inferred that sexual orientation and gender identity are contradictory to morality.

1. Upholding of the three main pillars: the Nation, the Religion, and the Monarchy;

2. Honesty, sacrifice, and patience with positive attitude for the interest of the public;

3. Filial piety towards parents, guardians and teachers;

4. Seeking of direct and indirect knowledge and education;

5. Preservation of Thai traditions and cultures;

6. Morality, integrity, considerateness, generosity, and sharing;

7. Understanding and learning of true democratic ideals with His Majesty the King as Head of State;

8. Maintaining of discipline, respectfulness of laws and the elderly;

9. Being conscious and mindful of action in line with His Majesty’s the King’s royal statements;

10. Applying His Majesty the King’s Sufficiency Economy, saving money for time of need, being moderate with surplus for sharing or expansion of business while having good immunity;

11. Keeping physical and mental strength, unyielding to the evil power or desires, having sense of shame over guilt and sins in accordance with the religious principles;

12. Putting the public and national interest before one’s own

[sustento]

Not going to happen while a military government is in place...

Actually it is much more likely to happen, and something that is being actively lobbied for by some groups.... Whether it happens or not is something that I don't know the answer to, but it is certainly far more likely than previously...

Why do you think it's more likely to happen? Military regimes tend to be more morally conservative than the rest of society (the exception being those societies, like Egypt, where there is a large conservative religious element in the civilian population). The military outlook is all about self-discipline and self-denial -- sexuality and sexual orientation are to be left in the shadows (except where they may reinforce the image of machoness). That is why very few militaries in the world are accepting of gay recruits.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sexual_orientation_and_military_service#Countries_that_allow_openly_gay.2C_lesbian_and_bisexual_people_to_serve

[isanbirder]

That's a fairly impressive list, Sustento.... though I'm a little surprised that places like Bermuda even have a Military!

My impression of the main part of the parade from the photos was how dignified it was. Nothing strident or aggressive. That seems to me much more likely to have a favourable impact in Thailand.

[Docno]

Why do you think it's more likely to happen? Military regimes tend to be more morally conservative than the rest of society (the exception being those societies, like Egypt, where there is a large conservative religious element in the civilian population). The military outlook is all about self-discipline and self-denial -- sexuality and sexual orientation are to be left in the shadows (except where they may reinforce the image of machoness). That is why very few militaries in the world are accepting of gay recruits.

Just remember that Prayuth that is encouraging schools to teach "values and moral soundness" through the teaching of his '12 virtues'.

This is Thailand, and while in some ways conservative it tends to be far more accepting of gay, lesbian, and trans people, many of whom work for the government quite openly. Before the coup there were moves backed by Democrat members of parliament to allow for civil unions, though with all the other problems the government faced it never progressed far and I am not sure it would have passed under a PT-led government anyway (actually I doubt it would have if only because a Democrat member was promoting it, and here the Democrats are generally seen as the conservatives). While now the slate is clean, there is a segment within the National Reform Council actively promoting greater rights for women as well as for LGBT people. I don't have a crystal ball, but I think the chances are far greater now especially with some in positions that can influence the new constitution as well as shape laws (NRC and NLA) and political divisions no longer a factor. The current government is not just the military, but also government bodies composed of academics, civil servants, and others as well as military and former military. Actually it is a bit of a misnomer to call it a military government, as the PM and others have retired, and the military is not making the rules. I have a bit of faith it will happen now, which would be good for me.... It may not happen but i think more likely than under an elected government. Sometimes non-elected governments have more leeway. I may be completely wrong, but I have a lot of friends in government work here and have never found them anything but accepting and definitely not homophobic. We just have to give it time and see. If it doesn't get passed under the NRC and NLA, then the struggle for it will continue. But I choose to be hopeful... These are of course just my thoughts...

I guess we'll just have to agree to disagree. I would be happy if Thailand went down this route, but I just don't see it happening under the current regime. I don't think 'military government' is a misnomer at all... what you see is just window-dressing. The military is firmly in charge even if General Prayuth has mothballed his uniform. "Going civilian" is a common tactic after military coups to give a government more international legitimacy.

Thailand is tolerant but still quite conservative in a way that often seems paradoxical to outsiders. You can saw near-naked bar-girls in pubs, but when those same girls go swimming back home, they would never dream of doing it in a bikini... shorts and tee-shirts all the way. Going in out in public, they will wear 'sexy' outfits, but will wear shorts underneath to 'protect their modesty'. They will socialise with tansgender people but make derogatory comments behind their backs. I think it's a mistake to confuse tolerance for acceptance. More important, you have to consider the attitudes of the elite in particular as they are the ones firmly in control again, hand in hand with the military.

Finally, Prayuth holds a lot of power in his hands despite what your civil servant friends may think. In recent weeks, we have seen him rejecting proposals from ministries more than once. And remember that this is the same man who suggested that attractive women should not wear bikinis if they want to be safe from rape. That's not the kind of outlook conducive to an acceptance of gay marriage. We're talking about a very conservative mindset here...

[Docno]

Not going to happen while a military government is in place...

Actually it is much more likely to happen, and something that is being actively lobbied for by some groups.... Whether it happens or not is something that I don't know the answer to, but it is certainly far more likely than previously...

Why do you think it's more likely to happen? Military regimes tend to be more morally conservative than the rest of society (the exception being those societies, like Egypt, where there is a large conservative religious element in the civilian population). The military outlook is all about self-discipline and self-denial -- sexuality and sexual orientation are to be left in the shadows (except where they may reinforce the image of machoness). That is why very few militaries in the world are accepting of gay recruits.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sexual_orientation_and_military_service#Countries_that_allow_openly_gay.2C_lesbian_and_bisexual_people_to_serve

I was wrong when I said "few" militaries accept gay recruits--thanks for the link--but we're seeing mostly western style democracies on the list (as the intro points out). I'm surprised to see Russia on the list, but further research indicates that homosexuality was removed as barrier to military service primarily to prevent people using it as an excuse to avoid serving (aka doing a Cpl Klinger). (See http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/LGBT_rights_in_Russia#Current_situation)... apparently recruits will find it very difficult to be openly gay in the Russian military. I wonder to what extent this is true of other countries on the list: de jure vs de facto acceptance. More important, I suspect that in many of these cases, acceptance of gay recruits did not reflect a voluntary, internal change by military leadership but the application of civilian/constitutional anti-discrimination legislation by civilian governments.

[sustento]

I was wrong when I said "few" militaries accept gay recruits--thanks for the link--but we're seeing mostly western style democracies on the list (as the intro points out). I'm surprised to see Russia on the list, but further research indicates that homosexuality was removed as barrier to military service primarily to prevent people using it as an excuse to avoid serving (aka doing a Cpl Klinger). (See http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/LGBT_rights_in_Russia#Current_situation)... apparently recruits will find it very difficult to be openly gay in the Russian military. I wonder to what extent this is true of other countries on the list: de jure vs de facto acceptance. More important, I suspect that in many of these cases, acceptance of gay recruits did not reflect a voluntary, internal change by military leadership but the application of civilian/constitutional anti-discrimination legislation by civilian governments.

I've no doubt that that many of those mentioned were affected by civilian legislation. That doesn't make it any the less right.

In the UK it took a visit to the ECHR for it to happen. All the old buffers fretted and I think one actually resigned but everybody else just accepted that some of the people who they were serving with were gay and no longer needed to be dishonest in order to serve their country. It's not as though they weren't in the military before and all rushed to join as soon as it was decriminalized.

Nowadays they attend gay parades in uniform and publish recruiting ads in gay magazines. Their civil partners get all the spousal benefits that straight partners do. They're still some of the best regarded military in the world.

[Docno]

I was wrong when I said "few" militaries accept gay recruits--thanks for the link--but we're seeing mostly western style democracies on the list (as the intro points out). I'm surprised to see Russia on the list, but further research indicates that homosexuality was removed as barrier to military service primarily to prevent people using it as an excuse to avoid serving (aka doing a Cpl Klinger). (See http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/LGBT_rights_in_Russia#Current_situation)... apparently recruits will find it very difficult to be openly gay in the Russian military. I wonder to what extent this is true of other countries on the list: de jure vs de facto acceptance. More important, I suspect that in many of these cases, acceptance of gay recruits did not reflect a voluntary, internal change by military leadership but the application of civilian/constitutional anti-discrimination legislation by civilian governments.

I've no doubt that that many of those mentioned were affected by civilian legislation. That doesn't make it any the less right.

In the UK it took a visit to the ECHR for it to happen. All the old buffers fretted and I think one actually resigned but everybody else just accepted that some of the people who they were serving with were gay and no longer needed to be dishonest in order to serve their country. It's not as though they weren't in the military before and all rushed to join as soon as it was decriminalized.

Nowadays they attend gay parades in uniform and publish recruiting ads in gay magazines. Their civil partners get all the spousal benefits that straight partners do. They're still some of the best regarded military in the world.

Agreed. My core point was that 'military culture' is generally not very open to homosexuality even though gay people have always (quietly) served in armed forces around the world. That is why I don't think you will see any gay-friendly legislation under the current regime.