Thai editorial: Chinese barbarians at the boarding gate

[Runamile]

China is simply survival of the fittest. No more, no less. There's no reason why, these days, it has to be, but that's what China is - for the Chinese. As foreigners, we're often very privileged in China. For instance, I can say that I've experience unparalleled high service levels - I doubt something many Chinese could say. I've also experienced being treated as one of the mass; and I can say who consistently does that - older people.

The self-same older people who are so, so often an embarrassment to their children, but, nonetheless, have brought them up; and are bringing up their grandchildren (as both parents work). You have to feel sorry for older people, having lived through the Cultural Revolution, Long March, etc, but that doesn't make day to day survival of their behaviour particularly easy. They are selfishness personified - it was necessary to survival - and are passing that on inter-generationally. They, often, create the Little Emperor more than the parents; and certainly, if you have their behaviour and a Tiger Mum - watch out for that little eight year old (who may well expect, as his parents may well expect, that at school his backside is wiped by teacher - true example).

Not many know, but Chinese regard those, including traditionally, outside their family and guanxi system as ghosts. They have some slight notion that they're there"ish", perhaps something of a nuisance, and certainly no obligations to them.

If you think the Chinese are bad, try them at home - and, remember, I was privileged. Even some of those older people were fascinated by the idea of a foreigner coming all the way to China and helping. I particularly found that from old men, some of whom would even offer me their bus seat. Old women, another story. Fearsome. If someone elbowed you, kneed you on the bus, you didn't have to look to know it would be an old woman. Ghastly people, who still believe they have to fight every inch of the way for their family, with that thought infiltrating every aspect of their lives. Family justifies everything, even if the event has nothing to do with family.

Anyway, quite a lot of older people have money or have children who have - children who, increasingly, disfavour the Chinese stay at home approach to holidays. They want to travel. They often take parents with them. Sometimes, it's the other way around, if it's the parents who have the money. There's still, though, a fearfulness about travel and certainly a worry about making your own travel arrangements (and, sometimes, it's difficult in terms of visas) - which brings us to the fiendish Chinese tour group, composed mostly of older people, often of women (as more adventurous than men) and sometimes with their daughters. Unbelievable bad behaviour. I've been staying in Chinese hotels for many, many years, but to stay in a Chinese hotel in recent years, seems always to involve arguments over behaviour. The first thing is that the group opens all doors to create a communal area. People occupy the corridor, people shout across from room to room, televsions blare out. Reception is carnage as they check in.

That said, even couples can be bad news at reception, as the male wishes to assert his (new) status in front of partner. Queue? What queue? Push, shove, jostle. Just like the supermarket, in fact. Of course, within bounds you take it, have to. But, I do have a strong sense of boundaries. That can lead to open confrontation, or at least giving as good as you get - and I'm supposed to be innocently shopping or enjoying my holiday.

Now it's these self-same people, except with a little more money, who form the tour groups going abroad. So, if that person felt entitled in that Chinese hotel, how entitled do they feel in this foreign one? What we need to understand , though, is that the rise of the sense of entitlement, notice entitlement with no sense of obligation (as was traditionally the case with those who have money, status), is a global phenomenon this century. That Thai new money, scribbling on the Great Wall, speaks the same language - I'll do exactly what I want, I'm entitled to - as that new Chinese money. And Westerners are, also, not above bad behaviour, either, though things are particularly accented in Asia, through the suddenness of economic development, just how quickly many people arrive with way more money than they could ever have guessed. Culture had no time to adapt - all that happened was the worst characteristics of what was already there were accentuated.

Note that Chinese couples, even the odd single (though not to Japanese proportions) travelling abroad can, simply, be the most delightful, pleasant, self-effacing of people you will ever meet. In fact, I worry for them. Their naivety, lack of life, never mind travel experience, puts them in a weak position. In fact, generally, including at home, where Chinese can be very critical of foreigners, they also seem to trust them way too much.

So the overall conclusion? New money from whatever nation can be terrifying. Any tourist destination should profile the tourists it's trying to attract, way beyond just nationality. So, maybe, Chinese weddings in Thailand, brilliant, but tour groups, wowa. Chinese tour groups, notoriously, spend nothing, anyway.

[Phra Ek]

A nation of 'only children' raised by parents who had to be tough and totally selfish to survive their brutal regime - not surprising really.

"Let China sleep, or when she wakes nobody will get a deckchair with a sun umbrella"

[Manbing]

I am not a racist, but...

Insert racist sentiment here.

Edited December 18, 2014 by Manbing

[lildragon]

Good post runamile.

I think it is somewhat comparable to what has happened with UK budget flying and holidays in the last 20 or so years. Places like Spain have been invaded by the more unruly types of UK society and have seen the worst of it. I actively avoid going to Spanish and Greek islands as I don't really want to see my compatriots embarrassing themselves and acting in another country exactly as they do at home. Yeesh!

[Benmart]

I believe there is a "barbarian" lurking in most people. Most people control it by becoming educated, having a spiritual or philosophical belief or learning from the positive teachings of others.

There are others that lack the tools for "barbarian control" and that's when outside forces get involved.

"Easy Does It".

[Hawkman]

Have only met really nice Chinese people, so it's just some that spoil it for others.

We all know my fellow Brits, as well as Americans, Aussies, French and let's not forget the Russians incite hatred and annoyance over here for locals as well as foreigners.

Each country has it stereotypes and there's lots of them about who give us all a bad name, drunk, annoying, arrogant, boastful, violent, homophobic, mad, you name it.

The majority however, will be like the rest of us, trying to get along in life, being good to others, connecting well with others and being respectful.

Edited December 18, 2014 by Hawkman

[jaywalker]

I have to commend them for at least trying to do something against it.

+1 ... some people closer to home could learn some lessons from this.

I agree it is nice for the Authorities to try and do something. But if it is anything like they did for the Beijing Olympics, getting the people to learn and queue, then it will not last long. The Chinese people went right back to their normal ways after the Olympic games, pushing in queues and really behaving without any manners and decorum.

I would make them do some training beforehand on queuing along with some of the middle eastern tourists. For the Thai Tourism Authority, I would start redefining what a quality tourist is.

I got caught in a mob of Chinese women at Nong Nooch Gardens once.

They had just opened the gate for the elephant show & WOW! I got smushed & elbowed like mad!

[Runamile]

Exactly the point, lildragon; and one you could, interestingly, make in exactly the same way for the development of mass tourism from many European countries.

Hawkman, yes, it does depend who exactly you meet, and, also, where you meet them. I'm aware of negative comments about Russian tourists in Thailand and I've certainly heard of some very negative events, around, say, Pattya. However, the only Russians I've ever met here were on Koh Chang. Delightful little families of pleasant people, if anything a little unsure of themselves, and, certainly, very polite. I don't get the sense that's the general stereotype of Russians, never mind the particular stereotyping around Pattya or Phuket. Maybe it's as simple as those areas attractive different Russians from Koh Chang. Oh, the dangers of stereotyping!

[jocher]

well, if annually they are leaving their country for holidays.. at 98 million paxs and climbing.. a small event like these 4 ppl on the plane is very very small compared to the rest of the 99.99 % of well behaved Chinese paxs. We cannot deny they r the big spender currently, many countries r wooing them to visit and spending their money. Many big departmental stores in BKK or even Paris, London, SFO, NYC, u name them.. all employed Chinese speaking staff to take care of them. Yes, I agree they may hv their "cannot lose out" mentality but rest assured they had been briefed on how to behave outside their country, just that some r knuckle-heads who still thinks they r home in China. I had worked wt travel agents in China b4, all tours out are given a small booklet of polite behavior outside of China, how not to spit, or squat on the road side, to Q, to talk softly and not to shout, not to smoke anywhere they choose, etc..

It's a young and growing tour market, give them time, after this shameful adventure on the plane, rest assured that it'll be a learning lesson for the rest.

[neverdie]

Nothing good will be said in this thread......let me get some popcorn and work on my meditation......

Your meditation deserves a lot of work if you think it involves popcorn!

[chuang]

They will never learn.....latest...a passenger activated an emergency slide just so that he could go out first....and another chinese tried to open the emergency door during flight just to get some fresh air.....these are recent incidents....are they dumb or what...*&^%&(

[Pmax]

living in Phuket and working in Bangkok I am on weekly flights in/out. Tuesday in, Friday out.

Friday evening flights to Phuket are packed with chinese tourists. Most with Air Asia.

If the work week not kills me, the nights out fail to do too, the chinese may succeed.

Boarding ! : coming close to boarding time ( no announcement made yet, most people just sit and wait ) hoards of chinese rush to the counter waving their boarding passes. Airline staff must explain ( hard to do if one only understand chinese ) to sit down and wait for announcement.

actual boarding: announcement is made and in case of air asia premium seat bookings are asked to board first. The Chinese, all of them, ( non of them got premium seat ) rush to counter try to board immediately. Pushed back by staff until announcement is made for "regular" bookings.

even though it is written on your boarding pass to show ID/passport once boarding, the majority of chinese guest search for their passports on the spot !

on board ! ( I am always in first and watch the show - every week ! ). Your seat number is clearly visible printed on your boarding pass. Having the boarding pass for almost 2 hours in their hands, checking the seat number is for chinese a task to do INSIDE the plane...AFTER they walked the entire length of the plane at least once !

All you can here during this process is noisy chinese having fun boarding and stressed airline staff calling for "Sit down, Sit down please - take your seats " !

totally disregarding other passengers and their efforts to get to the assigned seating. Chinese stand in the aisle for chats !

Once they finally seated they find out that their neighbor ( it is an 1.20hr. flight ) is not the guy they like to chat with and start to re-arrange seating. guy from row 7 to row 55, woman from 62 to 13...from left to right, always with hand luggage ( they got a lot ) moving too.

Forget to try to sleep for an hour or so. It's like they just see each other for the first time in 50 years - lots to share and laugh about. And if your friend sits 20 rows behind you - for chinese no problem to include him.

Remember ! I do this every week ! It is not a one time event.

And I've seen all. Spitting, trash on the floor, all kind of foods exchanging from row to row.

Once a mother let her Son ( must be about 10-12 years old ) piss in a empty water bottle while seated.

arriving destination, landing, touch down. The moment nose is down, plane still rolling you can hear the klick klick, seat belts open, getting up, open storage, taking hand luggage out.

stressed Airline Staff announcement " please keep seated, fasten seat belts"

[axact]

The downside of low cost travel,low intelligence travellers

So you think being rich means your intelligent & poor equals low intelligence ? Get real. Just the sort of comment one expects dickheads to make.

[Pmax]

I am always in Row 1 or 2. out very quick. The circus behind me is unbelievable.

I tried all available flights, different times, to avoid all of this but it seems to me that friday night is peek time for Chinese travelling to Phuket.

I learned to live with it. In first - out first, book premium. But feel sorry for any other tourists among them.

what still amazes me is their total disregard when addressing them. A friendly "excuse me sir..." and they look at you, if at all, like seen Godzilla on a plane and keep doing whatever they just do.

whoever thinks I exaggerate the events is welcome to join me - any friday night BKK-HKT !

Cheers

[noitom]

It's a cultural thing they mill around and hoard up on the door/gate. What's surprising is the Thai editors referring to the Chinese as "barbarians" in the headline. The Chinese should object fervently to this discriminatory characterization by Thais.

[axact]

I can't help but smile, the rude, loud and generally ignorant Thai travellers give the Chinese a run for their money when it comes to being ambassadors for their country.

Pot calling the kettle black !

[SiSePuede419]

It's true---Genghis Khan had the second largest Empire of all time.

'Empire' was the name of his penis...

[aussiesteve63]

The downside of low cost travel,low intelligence travellers

So you think being rich means your intelligent & poor equals low intelligence ? Get real. Just the sort of comment one expects dickheads to make.

Started drinking early did we

[midzo]

It might be useful to distinguish between nouveau riche mainland Chinese and ordinary Taiwanese and Hong Kong citizens.

I have seen appalling behavior from mainland Chinese tourists. I was apprehensive about the behavior I might see on my recent visit to Taiwan.

Without exception, I found the Taiwanese to be friendly and helpful. Strangers in the train station helped me carry my bags up the stairs. A passerby walked nearly a kilometer out of his way to help me find my guesthouse. People queued politely at ticket windows.

Not all Chinese are ruthless monsters of selfishness.

[alocacoc]

There is a new incident.

Catfight about crying baby.

http://tuoitre.vn/tin/the-gioi/20141218/hanh-khach-trung-quoc-lai-choang-nhau-tren-may-bay/686799.html

For people who don't understand Vietnamese, here the Chinese version

http://www.ntdtv.com/xtr/gb/2014/12/17/a1162026.html

Edited December 18, 2014 by alocacoc

[mojorison]

Thailand... the hub of departure gates... just putting it out there.

[baboon]

I can't help but smile, the rude, loud and generally ignorant Thai travellers give the Chinese a run for their money when it comes to being ambassadors for their country.

Pot calling the kettle black !

You took the words right out of my mouth. I remember a few of the above trying to barge me out of the way when boarding a train at Thonburi. What really got me was their vocal indignation and glares when I cheerfully shoved them back - what did they think was going to happen when attempting to push a man a head taller and 30 kilos heavier disdainfully out of the way?

That said, the vast majority of Thais and Chinese I have encountered on my peregrinations have been a pleasure to travel with.

Edited December 18, 2014 by baboon

[TomYumpoochai]

Last night i taught some chinese tourists that stepping off a bus and waving your hand at me to stop will get you 8000 rpm of unsilenced exhaust and a big front tyre aimed somewhere near your head. It did entertain the taxi boys as well....

[Lupatria]

Go to Singapore and on the way from the airport to the city center you will already encounter whith "kiasu" (Chinese "win every encounter" philosophy) and what it really means in practice.

[FangFerang]

The Chinese teachers I have met here in Thailand are wonderful people -- considerate, helpful, intelligent and kind. The Chinese tourists are another matter. One stepped on my broken foot trying to shove past me in the 7/11 queue. When I yelled in pain he tried to make out that my exclamation was that I had insulted him. Then he looked down and saw my bandaged foot. Rather than back-pedaling in any way, he tried to escalate the situation. Luckily, there was an off-duty Thai policeman in the queue behind us. The policeman said in very good English that he had seen what happened. Then he said some very terse Chinese phrases, and the Chinese tourist literally dropped his purchase and went out the door.

I am sure I am not the only one that has had a brush with uncivilized Chinese tourists.

[puukao]

Why do the Chinese get so excited,i remember on a Cathy pacific flight from HK to Bangkok,they released their seatbelts and where jumping towards the overhead luggage compartments,Omg,this took place about 500 feet in the air before landing,"what's the rush"?

They need to be first and fear being overtaken by others. It is a direct result of the Chinese "win every encounter" philosophy.

You could never generalize people but it seems like many of the Chinese are very selfish and greedy people with a “me first” mentality. The Chinese school system must have missed to teach them manners, or is it acceptable to behave like that in China?

I have taught in China and I would like to offer this insight.

Because of the one child policy, we see today a situation that should have been envisaged but was not.

When the Chinese family have a child they will pray for a son to carry on the family name but these days they are not so disappointed if it is a daughter. Either way we see what has become the " Little Emperor" syndrome.

The child is spoiled rotten by the parents and being an only child has never learned how to share of the need to consider others.A parallel can be drawn in the west where young males are raised without a father figure and learn the viciousness of the mother without the counsel of the father. That's why in a brawl there is no longer a knock you down/ pick you up philosophy anymore. Now it is kill first.

If you go to a restaurant in China, many times the children from other tables will come and take food from your table without even thinking to ask.

I'm sorry, but I am at a total loss. Your post is both intelligent and well spoken. Are you sure you meant to post on ThaiVisa!!!!!! I better take off my clown suit, it's getting real in here!!!!!!

[Tomtomtom69]

Why do the Chinese get so excited,i remember on a Cathy pacific flight from HK to Bangkok,they released their seatbelts and where jumping towards the overhead luggage compartments,Omg,this took place about 500 feet in the air before landing,"what's the rush"?

They need to be first and fear being overtaken by others. It is a direct result of the Chinese "win every encounter" philosophy.

Well they'll be the first in hospital or in the morgue when they fall over and get injured, possibly seriously upon landing.

[Tomtomtom69]

The Chinese teachers I have met here in Thailand are wonderful people -- considerate, helpful, intelligent and kind. The Chinese tourists are another matter. One stepped on my broken foot trying to shove past me in the 7/11 queue. When I yelled in pain he tried to make out that my exclamation was that I had insulted him. Then he looked down and saw my bandaged foot. Rather than back-pedaling in any way, he tried to escalate the situation. Luckily, there was an off-duty Thai policeman in the queue behind us. The policeman said in very good English that he had seen what happened. Then he said some very terse Chinese phrases, and the Chinese tourist literally dropped his purchase and went out the door.

I am sure I am not the only one that has had a brush with uncivilized Chinese tourists.

You should have told him (the tourist who stepped on your foot) to <deleted> off. Don't act like a doormat, especially not towards other foreigners in Thailand.

[baboon]

^^

You can't really do that with an injury in case you need to back your words up...

[AleG]

I have taught in China and I would like to offer this insight.

Because of the one child policy, we see today a situation that should have been envisaged but was not.

When the Chinese family have a child they will pray for a son to carry on the family name but these days they are not so disappointed if it is a daughter. Either way we see what has become the " Little Emperor" syndrome.

The child is spoiled rotten by the parents and being an only child has never learned how to share of the need to consider others.A parallel can be drawn in the west where young males are raised without a father figure and learn the viciousness of the mother without the counsel of the father. That's why in a brawl there is no longer a knock you down/ pick you up philosophy anymore. Now it is kill first.

If you go to a restaurant in China, many times the children from other tables will come and take food from your table without even thinking to ask.

"young males are raised without a father figure and learn the viciousness of the mother without the counsel of the father."

What the...?