Why is Thailand such a success compared to the Philippines?

[Monkeysee]

Geographical location and knowing when to roll over when the world masters ask them to.

[CPH]

Because Manila is such a dump.

I'm really thinking more of the past and trying to wondering what people think went wrong. Fifty years ago Manila and the Philippines was I believe considered the jewel of Asia.

http://mypandacan.com/archives/2317

I agree it is a dump now and I'm sure that factors in the way things will work out in the future.

Very interesting pictures. Here is a link to a film from Manila in the very old days.

[Crazy chef 1]

It's the Pinoy mentality that's putting the Philippines down. They generally prefer to be employees than become entrepreneurs. They usually don't like to take risks. Filipinos are good social beings... singers, dancers, English language speakers. Thai people are generally good in math, have better business acumen, and are not afraid to invest in business.

am i living in a different country????

[balo]

I think one reason is safety for foreign investors. Thailand is fairly gun free and safe. For a long time, potential Taiwanese and Japanese investors were being kidnapped in the P.R. After mainland China opened-up, there was no need to take the risks - physical and financial - involved in investing in the P.R.

Thailand has the third highest gun murder rate per capita in the world. 2.5X that of The Philippines. LINK

I think one of the differences is wealth , the few that show off their wealth in the Philippines got to be careful , especially foreigners. Yes guns are also easily available in Thailand but most of the time you can relax without worry to much , In some areas in Phils , you need to be careful if you live in a nice house and are showing to your whole neighborhood that you're one of the rich guys. Most of them need to hire private security. Not the same in Thailand even if there are more murders here.

Edited December 27, 2014 by balo

[RichardThailand]

I think one reason is safety for foreign investors. Thailand is fairly gun free and safe. For a long time, potential Taiwanese and Japanese investors were being kidnapped in the P.R. After mainland China opened-up, there was no need to take the risks - physical and financial - involved in investing in the P.R.

Thailand has the third highest gun murder rate per capita in the world. 2.5X that of The Philippines. LINK

Having lived there for a long time I feel that statistics coming out of that country are extremely unreliable. Nothing is reported correctly and deaths happen all of the time.

I have some statistics from personal experience:

• Rotary club - 2 out of the 32 members were murdered in different incidents.
• Hairdressers - 2 out of 4-5 died from motor cycle accidents
• Girls - First visit to PI, been there a few days and saw my first murdered girl (murdered by her police boyfriend). Girl looked to be around 18.
• Holdups - First visit to PI, been there a few days. Took money out of a bank ATM and met up with a guy pointing a gun at me.

[ATF]

I think one reason is safety for foreign investors. Thailand is fairly gun free and safe. For a long time, potential Taiwanese and Japanese investors were being kidnapped in the P.R. After mainland China opened-up, there was no need to take the risks - physical and financial - involved in investing in the P.R.

Thailand has the third highest gun murder rate per capita in the world. 2.5X that of The Philippines. LINK

Having lived there for a long time I feel that statistics coming out of that country are extremely unreliable. Nothing is reported correctly and deaths happen all of the time.

I have some statistics from personal experience:

• Rotary club - 2 out of the 32 members were murdered in different incidents.
• Hairdressers - 2 out of 4-5 died from motor cycle accidents
• Girls - First visit to PI, been there a few days and saw my first murdered girl (murdered by her police boyfriend). Girl looked to be around 18.
• Holdups - First visit to PI, been there a few days. Took money out of a bank ATM and met up with a guy pointing a gun at me.

Yes Richard I believe you are correct a lot of murders go unreported in Thailand while a lot more go unreported in the Phils.

Over 60% of gun deaths in the States are suicides but South Africa is the murder capital of the World.

[yellowboat]

Think it is just a race to the bottom and Philippines got there first. Infrastructure is better in places like Bangkok and it is safer than Manila. Thailand jumped on family planning where the Philippines has yet to do so.

[awayego]

I've only spent ten days in the Phils but my impression was way too many people, so many men sitting around everywhere I went doing SFA, and an economy that is unable to support such a large population. I have Filipino friends and from what they say the level of corruption is in a higher league altogether than Thailand, difficult as that may be to believe.

The Catholic Church must bear great blame and responsibility for encouraging population growth through their inhumane dogma on birth control, but then the Catholic Church thrives most where there is poverty, hopelessness and poor education - it is not in their interests to change. They have much to answer for in so many parts of the world. Don't get me started!

[Johnnie99]

Thailand succeeded?

[Friendly Stranger]

I'll be interested to see where Thailand is in ten or fifteen years. As HeijoshinCool said, they got a big bump from the Vietnam war. The US poured money and technology into the country as Thailand allowed the US to use air bases. Later it brought in a lot of manufacturing. Thailand and the US have been friends and allies since just after WWII right up until about NOW.

The US isn't going to put up with this China alliance and has already pulled a lot of income away from Thailand since the coup. I don't expect Japan to put up with the China alliance either and the US and Japan are close.

If the US and Japan pull significant manufacturing out of Thailand and move it to Burma, Thailand will be hurting. The US and Japan already bought huge tracts of land in Yangon, and Japan promised to build a deep water port there. This was over Yingluck's behavior. Imagine what they think of the current government's moves.

Thailand has had it's Marcos. Thaksin and Yingluck robbed the country blind and left it deeply in debt and not just over the rice scheme. They at least temporarily destroyed the rice export business.

Thailand is slipping. It's stupidity, greed and corruption is catching up with its economy from rice to tourism. Next if it loses the US and Japan as Cambodia, Vietnam and Burma take business, it could slip a long way down. I'm not predicting anything, I just see the possibility.

I understand your point but can China not do what the Americans and others had previously done? It's looking as if they're both building alliances. Edited December 27, 2014 by Friendly Stranger

[moe666]

Geography is a big part of it.

Thailand is the perfect base for Asean travel.

Flipland is a bunch of islands well into the sea!

Youdo realize that the worc flip is a very derogatory term, or you just do not care.

[Friendly Stranger]

I could not believe that was Manila in those old pics. Thanks for posting them. I guess it's all relative.

[smotherb]

Vietnam war.

Don't you mean the opium wars?

[smotherb]

Ask again in 5 years.

Gee, what a popular explanation.

[sprq]

Population control was a big thing.

Check this out

http://www.ted.com/talks/mechai_viravaidya_how_mr_condom_made_thailand_a_better_place?language=en

Yes. Thailand instituted government birth control drives in the 1960s with great success ever since. The Philippines succumbed to the Catholic prohibition of birth control (the pill, condoms, etc) and the population keeps on soaring.

A couple of other important things are the Thai-Chinese business community, much bigger than the Filipino-Chinese one, driving the economy, Thailand having much better agricultural land and Thailand being prone to far fewer natural catastrophes.

The fact that the Philippines has a much better educational system than Thailand does not seem to have done it any good except as an exporter of talent and receiver of expats' remittances.

[dunque]

I'll be interested to see where Thailand is in ten or fifteen years. As HeijoshinCool said, they got a big bump from the Vietnam war. The US poured money and technology into the country as Thailand allowed the US to use air bases. Later it brought in a lot of manufacturing. Thailand and the US have been friends and allies since just after WWII right up until about NOW.

The US isn't going to put up with this China alliance and has already pulled a lot of income away from Thailand since the coup. I don't expect Japan to put up with the China alliance either and the US and Japan are close.

If the US and Japan pull significant manufacturing out of Thailand and move it to Burma, Thailand will be hurting. The US and Japan already bought huge tracts of land in Yangon, and Japan promised to build a deep water port there. This was over Yingluck's behavior. Imagine what they think of the current government's moves.

Thailand has had it's Marcos. Thaksin and Yingluck robbed the country blind and left it deeply in debt and not just over the rice scheme. They at least temporarily destroyed the rice export business.

Thailand is slipping. It's stupidity, greed and corruption is catching up with its economy from rice to tourism. Next if it loses the US and Japan as Cambodia, Vietnam and Burma take business, it could slip a long way down. I'm not predicting anything, I just see the possibility.

I think you will find that 'Burma' is just as tightly tied to China as Thailand - indeed more so.

[smotherb]

-snip-

Flipland is a bunch of islands well into the sea!

So is Japan.

So is Hawaii, next?

[moe666]

It's all to do with the mentality of the people and IMHO nothing to do with the US.

Flippers don't have the work ethic of Thais. Considering most Flippers speak English you would think this was an advantage but it isn't.

Burma is over 50 years behind Thailand and Bangkok is a first world city. Manila isn't.

Even China has problems competing with Thailand in certain industries.

However Thailand has reached a plateau at the moment but once the politics are sorted out I see no reason for it not to move forward.

"the work ethic of thais' that's a good one.

O please with this one the Thais I know are very hard working folks 12 hour 6 day week is not uncommon. My girlfriend works at a home stay and she is the only one who speaks english she is constantly staying after hours to help out and even goes in after hours if the staff need help with language. Start hanging with a better group of Thais.

[sprq]

To take the comparison a little further, why is Malaysia better off than Thailand?

One part of the answer would be oil.

Not really, in fact hardly at all. It's much more a result of one third of the population being ethnic Chinese, i.e. good at business, and the government being good at long-term planning in economics and infrastructure building.

[gemguy]

Many reasons and too numerous to cite here but all the reasons already posted are contributing factors while one more thing that many people fail to included:

The military and the armed forces in the Philippines has a huge influential role in how the country is run....but they stay in the background and seldom expose their role as to just how much they manipulate the politics and the economy of the Country.

That and the police force is even more corrupted, in some ways, than Thailand.

Another factor is the Banks and large manufacturing industries tend to shy away from the Philippines ( Global Risk Factors ) because it is well known how corrupted the various government agencies are or can be making it very difficult for investors to operate without being bogged down by burdensome government policies and near every bureaucrat coming out of the wood work trying to involve themselves in the companies business affairs and somehow making money off the company.

The customs officials are some of the worst.

They steal your product and or hold it for ransom and commonly cripple the ability of a large manufacturing concern to operate smoothly or cost effectively.

If you look up the data pertaining to how many global companies started operations in the Philippines and then pulled out several years later and moved to places such as Thailand or Malaysia or Vietnam....that says a lot.

Cheers

Edited December 27, 2014 by gemguy

[rmacee]

Have been many times and heading their again on Jan 13 ..One issue immediately is it is very difficult to plan a trip because of the weather ..so when I arrive check 5/10 forecast and then plan ..wonderful place if you get it right ..

Poverty big issue ..because 90+% been very 'strong' catholics I'd estimate they have 20 million too many people ..

Example ..spoke to a guy who was 1 of 9 ..those 9 now have 43 children ..because of the high quality of English (ok American) very high level of migration ..nurses etc.

Popular with Korean tourists ..easy trip away from their winter ..

Edited December 27, 2014 by rmacee

[moe666]

It's all to do with the mentality of the people and IMHO nothing to do with the US.

Flippers don't have the work ethic of Thais. Considering most Flippers speak English you would think this was an advantage but it isn't.

Burma is over 50 years behind Thailand and Bangkok is a first world city. Manila isn't.

Even China has problems competing with Thailand in certain industries.

However Thailand has reached a plateau at the moment but once the politics are sorted out I see no reason for it not to move forward.

I know many Filipinos that will disagree with you , the people I know work really hard , one of the best people you can hire as crew on ships , the Filipino teachers I know working in Bangkok are not more lazy than the Thai teachers, thats for sure.

Yes they do have the work ethics in Phills , but they also struggle with poverty and corruption everywhere.

A great number of Filipinos/Filipinas serve in The US military (mainly the Navy). I was amazed at the number of Navy Corpsmen who were Filipino. Navy Corpsmen serve as Medics for the US Marines. They are the ones saving the lives of the Marines in Combat. Not such a lazy job.

No more in the Navy as well as any other armed force of the US after the 1991 fiasco and there demand for billions of dollars to rent Subic and Clark Airforce Base that program was suspended.Even though most Filipinos had a college degree they entered the US Navy as a stewardsmate and served as officers cooks and cleaners after their first 6 years they could change rates to another field usually storekeepers but into other rates. Probably some became corpman but in my 26 year career never saw one .

[sprq]

I think one reason is safety for foreign investors. Thailand is fairly gun free and safe. For a long time, potential Taiwanese and Japanese investors were being kidnapped in the P.R. After mainland China opened-up, there was no need to take the risks - physical and financial - involved in investing in the P.R.

Thailand has the third highest gun murder rate per capita in the world. 2.5X that of The Philippines. LINK

That has very little effect on public safety because the vast majority of Thai gun murders are the settling of scores between business people and among gangsters, plus some crimes of passion. The average Joe, Thai or foreign, you and me, is rarely affected.

[moe666]

In the end Marcos says it all and the useless folks who came after him. Marcos set the country back 30 years

[Alwyn]

Economy[edit]

To help finance a number of economic development projects, the Marcos government borrowed large amounts of money from international lenders.[62][63] The Philippines' external debt rose from $360 million (US) in 1962 to $28.3 billion in 1986, making the Philippines one of the most indebted countries in Asia.[62] A sizable amount of this money went to Marcos family and friends in the form of behest loans. These loans were assumed by the government and are still being serviced by taxpayers, to this day. These loans were ostensibly funded to construct the Bataan Nuclear Power Plant but after Marcos' ouster, the plant was not utilized. Today, more than half of the country's revenues go toward the payment of interest on these loans, with the principal amounts remaining largely untouched.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ferdinand_Marcos

Re evaluate to also fund the Marcos standard of living...how many pairs of shoes can a woman really own? Thailand would have been trashed into debt the same way if the Shinawatra's had been allowed to over run the country to the same extent as the Marcos dynasty. And overall Thailand also has a stronger economic and export base than the Philippines especially in quality food stuffs...think beyond just rice to wandering into the vast array of Asian markets all over the world and there is endless produce from Thailand.

And also add the other obvious like American involvement, location etc.

It should be able to do a lot better too if the rail (freight to ports) infrastructure through the country is upgraded from the north and northeast neighboring counties to its coastal shipping facilities.

Thailand was trashed in debt when Thaksin became PM. He got the country out of debt, paid off loans to the IMF 2 years earlier etc etc Made health care more affordable energy more affordable to the poor, I could carry on. People like you assume that because he made himself a shed load of money through is position as PM which is no doubt morally wrong he bankrupted the country when the exact opposite is true

[Don Aleman]

For many years the Philippines enjoyed friendly relations with the US which also made them friends of some other powerful western nations as well. Then they refused to refused to renew US naval base leases, for which they were paid millions in rent each year. Additionally over 30,000 US military there, spending millions in salaries and employing some 60,000 Philipinos at approx. double normal wages plus unheard of benefits. Not the only problems but a big part of their failure to progress !

[gemguy]

In the end Marcos says it all and the useless folks who came after him. Marcos set the country back 30 years

Good point ....but that makes me understand that if it had not been Marcos it would have been someone as equally corrupt and dastardly as proven by all the succeeding governments and government officials who have been just as bad and corrupted and self serving.

It seems to be all part of the National identity of the Philippines...lol

I have a friend from Spain...when ever he talks about the how screwed up the Philippines is I always take the opportunity to point out how it is and always has been the fault of the Spanish....blame it on the Spanish...end of story....... while I hold up my hand and do not let him retort in any way at all...lol...just to give him the gears...because he is Spanish...while I point out the poverty seen everywhere on the street and tell him: "You and Spain are responsible for all this mess"...yuk yuk

Cheers

[jaywalker]

In spite of what people may think, there are islands where rich Westerners go to. Boracay is an example.

I remember Boracay from when it was the archetypal beach paradise for backpackers, with only buildings without foundations and no electricity, and the accommodation was beach huts for few tens of pesos.

It has changed somewhat since then.

Boracay doesn't hold a candle to even Koh Larn. The entire beach is/was about 500 yards long maybe when I was there in 2000.

It had hotels & a nightlife of sorts though, which Ko Larn did not have back then.

I've spent a decade in Thailand & only a few weeks in the Phil's, so I'm no expert. The original question is an enigma to me as well.

I recall IloIlo City & driving by stagnant tidal bays so full of plastic bags & garbage you could walk across them without getting your feet wet, & ZERO Tollways/Expressways in Manila.

I got "hung up" in Manila once on business, supposed to return to the US, & the boss suddenly wanted me to drop in to East Fricking Timor as I was "over that way".

The capital of East Timor, Dili, was still smoldering from psycho's that lost their minds in the 1999 independence referendum.

Anyhow, my contact in Dili told me to hold off on my visit for a few days. I was staying in the Manila Shangri-la at $167 a day (or so.....bastards changed my room rate by a few USD cents every day according to the USD exchange rate.....what a nightmare of an expense report!)

I HATED Manila & had never heard of Angeles City, so I managed to save the company some money for the 12 days I was twiddling my thumbs by staying at the Niggi-Niggi-Noo-Nooch Bungalows on Boracay at $30 a night.

I rented a dirt bike for a day & aside from that one beach strip, there wasn't a lot to see.

Ko Larn is bigger than Boracay & has half a dozen nice beaches, but only got a few decent hotels in the last few years.

It really is strange how the two countries are very much alike, yet so different.

My guess is it must be the island isolation, plus the natural disasters that so often occur in the Phil's.

Corruption is rampant there, but it's the same if not worse in Thailand.

My company offered to send me in with a couple 40 foot containers of goodies for free for their Army once. The idea was to have me rebuild some 1985 era model ground equipment into the next century & the General turned us down because we wouldn't bribe him.

Our East Asia Director of Sales vowed the opposite of MacArthur. He vowed to NEVER return!

Edited December 27, 2014 by jaywalker

[Kasset Tak]

First thing that pops up in my mind is food. I think Thai food is delicious but Filipino food is just like tasteless copies of European/Asean food, atleast what I have eaten so far. Hell I even think that the dog I ate in Vietnam tasted better than the dog I tried in The Philippines... I try everything atleast once!

[CMCMANGOMAN]

Folks are forgetting that Thailand has a beloved king who really cares about his country and its people. He has worked tirelessly in years past to bring his country into the 21st century. It still needs lots of work but still is a great country because of the kings efforts. Long live the king of Thailand. Much gratitude sir.

On the other hand, the Phillipines has been used and abused by every kind of despot, tinpot, and greedy country (including the vatican) to ever look upon her.

Edited December 27, 2014 by CMCMANGOMAN