Ice damage to engine may have triggered AirAsia crash

[Lite Beer]

Ice damage to engine may have triggered AirAsia crash
AFP

Ice forms in a jet engine. Photo Greenx

SURABAYA: Weather was probably the “triggering factor” in the crash of AirAsia Flight 8501 with icing likely causing engine damage, Indonesia’s meteorological agency said today (January 4), as divers prepared to search the plane wreckage.

The Airbus A320-200 crashed during a storm en route from Indonesia’s second city Surabaya to Singapore, and relief workers are hunting for flight data recorders to determine the cause of the crash.

An initial report on the website of BMKG, Indonesia’s meteorological agency, suggests the weather at the time the plane went down sparked the disaster after it appeared to fly into storm clouds.

“Based on the available data received on the location of the aircraft’s last contact, the weather was the triggering factor behind the accident,” said the report.

“The most probable weather phenomenon was icing which can cause engine damage due to a cooling process. This is just one of the possibilities that occurred based on the analysis of existing meteorological data,” it said.

High seas throughout the week have hampered the relief process, a huge operation assisted by several countries including the United States and Russia, but divers were preparing to go down to the wreckage today as the weather cleared.

Four major parts of the Airbus A320-200 were found in the sea off the island of Borneo late Friday and yesterday, raising hopes that the remaining bodies and the crucial “black box” recorders would soon be located. So far 30 bodies have been found.

“The waves are calmer, only one to two metres high,” search and rescue official SB Supriyadi said, adding that 95 divers were on standby on various ships.

“We’ll be concentrating on the underwater search. Hopefully we’ll be able to evacuate more bodies. We want to speed up the evacuation of bodies that might be stuck inside the plane’s body,” he said.

He said they would be using sonar equipment in their underwater searches, while aircraft would continue to scour the sea and coastline.

A presentation shown to reporters yesterday described one of the debris pieces as the “suspected tail” of the plane, but strong currents had made it difficult to operate a remotely-operated underwater vehicle to get a picture of the objects, which are 30 metres underwater.

Indonesia has pledged to investigate flight violations by AirAsia, saying the ill-fated aircraft had been flying on an unauthorised schedule when it crashed. The airline has now been suspended from flying the Surabaya-Singapore route.

But the Civil Aviation Authority of Singapore said it had granted permission for the airline’s Sunday flight.

It was unclear how the airline, a unit of Malaysia-based AirAsia, had been able to fly without the necessary authorisation from its starting point.

The company has declined to comment until the probe is complete, but said it would “fully cooperate” with the government.

Source: http://www.thephuketnews.com/ice-damage-to-engine-may-have-triggered-airasia-crash-50414.php

-- TNA 2015-01-04

[lust]

Ice? In Indonesia? Why is that planes can fly in -50 for hours at a time without any problems? Is it just airasia planes that designed differently?

[Lite Beer]

Ice may have caused AirAsia crash: govt agency
Adek BERRY
Agence France-Presse

PANGKALAN BUN, Indonesia,

Weather was the "triggering factor" in the crash of AirAsia Flight 8501 with icing likely causing engine damage, Indonesia's meteorological agency said, as divers found another body Sunday during a momentary respite from bad weather that has hampered rescue efforts.

The Airbus A320-200 crashed into the Java Sea a week ago carrying 162 people from Indonesia’s second city Surabaya to Singapore, and relief workers are hunting for the "black box" flight data recorders to determine the cause of the crash.

An initial report on the website of BMKG, Indonesia’s meteorological agency, suggested the weather at the time the plane went down sparked the disaster after it appeared to fly into storm clouds.

"Based on the available data received on the location of the aircraft’s last contact, the weather was the triggering factor behind the accident," said the report.

"The most probable weather phenomenon was icing which can cause engine damage due to a cooling process. This is just one of the possibilities that occurred based on the analysis of existing meteorological data."

Five major parts of the Airbus A320-200 have now been found off the island of Borneo, but rough weather throughout the week has hampered the relief process, a huge operation assisted by several countries including the United States and Russia.

As the weather cleared, a team of divers went down to the biggest part of the wreckage Sunday morning and recovered one body, bringing to 31 the number of victims found, but bad conditions forced them to surface again.

"They managed to go down but the visibility at the sea bottom was zero, it was dark and the seabed was muddy, with currents of three to five knots," search and rescue agency chief Bambang Soelistyo told reporters, adding that heavy rain and big waves were continuing to hamper the rescue effort.

"For that reason, the diving efforts must be temporarily stopped. We’ll try to deploy an ROV (remotely-operated underwater vehicle)," he said.

He said the fifth major part of the plane, located early Sunday, was about 10 metres by one metre (33 by 3.3 feet).

The search, focused on a patch of sea southwest of Pangkalan Bun, a town on Borneo, has also been extended east because parts of the plane may have been swept by currents, Soelistyo said.

The relief operation has prioritised finding the bodies of those on board the ill-fated flight, of whom 155 were Indonesian, with three South Koreans, one Singaporean, one Malaysian, one Briton and a Frenchman -- co-pilot Remi Plesel.

Indonesian pilot Setiawan, who is part of the ariel recovery effort combing the search area from above, told local television channel MetroTV that he had seen another three bodies floating in the sea early Sunday.

- AirAsia investigated -

========================

Indonesia has pledged to investigate flight violations by AirAsia, saying the ill-fated aircraft had been flying on an unauthorised schedule when it crashed. The airline has now been suspended from flying the Surabaya-Singapore route.

But the Civil Aviation Authority of Singapore said it had granted permission for the airline’s Sunday flight.

It was unclear how the airline, a unit of Malaysia-based AirAsia, had been able to fly without the necessary authorisation from its starting point.

The company has declined to comment until the probe is complete, but said it would "fully cooperate" with the government.

Before take-off, the pilot of Flight 8501 had asked for permission to fly at a higher altitude to avoid the storm, but the request was not approved due to other planes above him on the popular route, according to AirNav, Indonesia’s air traffic control.

In his last communication, Captain Iriyanto, an experienced former air force pilot, said he wanted to change course to avoid the menacing storm system. Then all contact was lost, about 40 minutes after the plane had taken off.

The families of victims have been preparing funerals as the bodies recovered are identified in Surabaya, where a crisis centre has been set up at a police hospital with facilities to store 150 bodies.

About 100 grieving Catholic relatives and well-wishers, some of them in tears, crowded into a small church in the police headquarters for a memorial mass Saturday afternoon, singing hymns and praying for the victims to be found quickly.

"We are trying to cope as hard as we can but it is still a very difficult time for our family as we are still waiting for news," said 25-year-old Sebastian Joseph Widodo, whose sister Florentina was on the plane.

"My faith is very central, especially at this time where there’s nothing much we can do," he added.

Source: http://www.nationmultimedia.com/aec/Ice-may-have-caused-AirAsia-crash-govt-agency-30251151.html

-- The Nation 2015-01-04

[draftvader]

Ice? In Indonesia? Why is that planes can fly in -50 for hours at a time without any problems? Is it just airasia planes that designed differently?

Firstly, here is a wikipedia page about "icing" to help you understand better. As far as the temperature is concerned there is little difference in temperature (not true but it is all VERY VERY cold) at cruising altitude anywhere on the planet.

[NeverSure]

The temperature under normal conditions drops about 3 degrees F for each 1,000 feet of climb. Freezing is 32 degrees F. If it was 100 degrees F at sea level, it would be freezing at 25,000 feet, and down to about 0 F m/l at his 38,000 feet, or 32 degrees below freezing. This is a normal temperature for planes to fly in.

It takes an unusual combination of atmospheric conditions to cause severe icing and he may have found it.

Another thing that's possible is that he hit untenable hail. Ingesting too much large hail can damage and kill the engines. This is similar to the flock of geese ingestion by the plane in "The Miracle on The Hudson" where everyone survived a ditching into the river in NY after all power was lost.

Another possibility is that ice messed with his instruments, especially his airspeed indicator and then a combination of errors caused the wings to stall and the plane to go into a flat spin, even with power, and crash. In zero visibility conditions once the pilot becomes disoriented all is lost.

I think it's premature for officials to be saying that icing most likely killed the engines.

[F430murci]

Lol, so SE Asia relies upon agencies such as Indonesias meteorological agency, not crash investigators, to determine or opine as to causes of commercial plane crashes even before boxes or relevant pieces of the plane are examined.

[neverdie]

Reading all these articles makes it look like 'dads army' is running the show.

Might have something to do with the journos though......got to love journos.

Great airline, fantastic journos.

There will probably be exciting 'news flash' articles ever day until the next crash.

I look forward to the official investigation report & flight data recorder & giggle box recordings.

[bangon04]

"“The most probable weather phenomenon was icing which can cause engine damage due to a cooling process. This is just one of the possibilities that occurred based on the analysis of existing meteorological data,” it said."

Another day, another pointless announcement to add to the impression of general headless chicken syndrome.

[RichinThailand]

I am not buying this story. If the engines iced up and both stopped, the flight crew would have had plenty of time while gliding the plane to put out a distress call and set up for a glide to a landing on the water that shouldn't have caused a major break-up of the plane. The Captain was a very experienced pilot and would have had time to go through checklist, and not just disappear from radar!!! No, sounds like the plane broke up in the air...as if maybe a wing or tail was ripped off my up/down drafts in a thunderstorm cell. Time will tell, and a lot more will be known if the "black boxes" which are orange, are found and analyzed by the right people (not those that already are trying for a political agenda...too bad that the NTSB will not do the analysis!).

[jacksam]

Ice? In Indonesia? Why is that planes can fly in -50 for hours at a time without any problems? Is it just airasia planes that designed differently?

I posted in another forum 2 days ago that what can happen is water droplets are pushed upwards too fast to become ice. If it is ice they just bounce off plane. When they are droplets of water they can stick to craft then become ice....big problem. Especially on this aircraft which is very good but also very controlled by computer systems. I know nothing about planes. This was told to me by 3 pilots that rent my home in AU.

[natway09]

I will withhold my comments until more is known except to say, Why are the Beacons NOT Beeping?

Are the rehargable batteries worn out,? instrument past used by date,? Who make & certifies them?

How often are they checked? Are they not strong enough to sustain impact damage? Whilst am fully aware that in this case will not saves lives there will be times when quick automatic emergency beacon transmission will. In this day & age where my smart phone is locatable anywhere in the world in about 12 seconds seems absurd that a commercial product such as this is malfunctioning, Any replies from manufacturers of this product?

[stopthegreed]

Ice? In Indonesia? Why is that planes can fly in -50 for hours at a time without any problems? Is it just airasia planes that designed differently?

Calm cold weather is not a problem for aircraft. But this plane flew into a storm, and most like encountered hailstones,....How large ???

If the plane did not have permission to fly, how did it have traffic control communications, and its a pilots job to asses his route and weather conditions.

Did he ignore the weather conditions, and if it was unautorised how did he get the route he was suppose to take?? Many questions here !!!

[BlueSkyCowboy]

Ice? In Indonesia? Why is that planes can fly in -50 for hours at a time without any problems? Is it just airasia planes that designed differently?

I was a pilot and reading the comments by highly skilled public, I remember why I preferred to fly freighters

Edited January 5, 2015 by BlueSkyCowboy

[rickirs]

"the weather was the triggering factor behind the accident,”

No, unprofessional pilot behavior triggered the accident. The weather just facilitated it. The pilot should have never left Indoneasia airspace. He put his passengers at risk and all paid for his decision to fly into extreme weather conditions.

[Nemesis7]

It's really stupid raising questions about their flight permission now, where was the govt agencies when the flight took off from the airport ? Why was it cleared to take off? Why were the passengers were allowed to board the aircraft if the airline had no permission to fly on that specific route? While punishing the airline , punis the people involved in allowing the flight to take off too.

[DaiHard]

I suspect the pitot tubes. Airbus has had problems with these before (air france crash for example) they were all supposed to be replaced as they had a problem with icing, leading to speed and altitude measurement problems.

[Partigo]

What gets me - is this : So QZ8501 and the MAL jet in March BOTH suffered such catastrophic failures that neither sent out a mayday?

[Bigfarang1948]

Ice? In Indonesia? Why is that planes can fly in -50 for hours at a time without any problems? Is it just airasia planes that designed differently?

Yes Ice. How about minus 40 C at about 12,000 meters and temperatures much lower than that at lower altitudes during bad weather could definitely result in large pieces of hail being sucked into the intakes; thus engine failure and resulting crash.