Thailand Asbestos ban delayed; Cabinet say 'not enough evidence'

[Jonmarleesco]

What do these prats suppose developed countries discovered about asbestos, years ago? Why do they suppose the UK, for example, banned or restricted its use? Do they seriously think the Thais - and Thai physiology - are somehow different?

And asbestos is just one issue; albeit the worst. Perhaps the cabinet should get off its fat collective posterior and go walkabout. See the constant displays of safety ignorance at work: stone and concrete being cut by saw, with dust and particles flying around indiscriminately. Walls being drilled, no covered protection. Go back and ask themselves where those larger-than-dust particles, with their particular molecular structures, most likely end up.

Then try an intelligent interpretation of the eventual outcomes. Followed by a more considered and intelligent decision, unconstrained by thoughts of money.

[Alwyn]

an old friend of mine has a company in the UK removing asbestos from buildings. He makes a fortune as it's a job that needs all sorts of licensing and insurance etc. That's probably the real motivator in Thailand for not making it a dangerous substance. They don't want to pay to get it removed

[thailiketoo]

What do these prats suppose developed countries discovered about asbestos, years ago? Why do they suppose the UK, for example, banned or restricted its use? Do they seriously think the Thais - and Thai physiology - are somehow different?

And asbestos is just one issue; albeit the worst. Perhaps the cabinet should get off its fat collective posterior and go walkabout. See the constant displays of safety ignorance at work: stone and concrete being cut by saw, with dust and particles flying around indiscriminately. Walls being drilled, no covered protection. Go back and ask themselves where those larger-than-dust particles, with their particular molecular structures, most likely end up.

Then try an intelligent interpretation of the eventual outcomes. Followed by a more considered and intelligent decision, unconstrained by thoughts of money.

Be honest who has the most intelligence without a thought to money; Thais or Canadians?

[45slap]

Keep the asbestos; legalize weed.

[igbuend]

Thailand Asbestos ban delayed; Cabinet say 'not enough evidence'

BANGKOK: -- An article from The Bangkok Post explains on the issue involving asbestos. On the 23rd of December the cabinet had rejected a Public Health Ministry's proposal to disallow the material of asbestos, which is a type of mineral that has been linked to some serious health issues which include lung cancer, saying that there is not enough evidence of asbestos-related diseases in Thailand to forbid the mineral. Anti-asbestos groups have damned the cabinet decision to delay banning asbestos.

The cabinets rejection also overrules the Industry Ministry’s proposal to eliminate asbestos in industrial products by 2020. The anti-asbestos groups have been campaigning against the use of this material since 2006, which has resulted in a cabinet resolution banning the material in 2011, four years ago. However the ban has been stalled by campaigns from manufacturers and investors.

Somboon Srikamdokcare, who is a member of the Council of Work and Environment Related Patients Network of Thailand, said that the decision for the ban shows that the government is siding with the business part and neglecting the public's health.

“The cabinet must respect the opinions of the ministry in charge of peoples health care,” said Ms Somboon. “People are starting to think of the government’s ‘happiness campaign’ as returning happiness to capitalists, rather than the grassroots”.

The Disease Control Department deputy director-general Nopporn Cheanklin, had said that a revised proposal would be acknowledged by the Public Health minister this week, before being shown to the cabinet. Further information will be set at precise schedules for factory checkups. Around 200 factories in Thailand are using asbestos, and with less than 20 are using the mineral in large quantities. Dr Nopporn has said.

Uran Kleosakul, who is the managing director of the roof tile manufacturer Oranvancich Co, says that the cabinets decision has provided ‘justice’, since the Public Health Ministry has yet to connect any deaths to asbestos-related diseases. Asbestos has been and is still widely used in Thailand for roofing materials and floor tiles.

From January to November 2014, Thailand has imported over 620.95 million bahts worth of asbestos from Brazil, China and Russia. 525.46 million baht has come from Russia. The Joint Russian-Thai Intergovernmental Commission on Bilateral Cooperation, Russia’s Minister for Industry, and Thailand’s Industry Ministry will begin to hold talks on this topic on Friday, the 9th of January 2015.

-- 2015-01-05

[soalbundy]

Keep the asbestos; legalize weed.

which you were obviously smoking when you wrote that.

[45slap]

Either light up, or leave me alone.

[bangon04]

In related news, a Thai government spokesman said there is no evidence that smoking cheap Chinese imported cigarettes will cause any damage to your health, but to be completely safe, Thais should really stick to Thai tobacco brands.....which were specially designed for Thai lungs...

[anon022]

There are different kinds of asbestos, and the white variation used here is only dangerous for those who work with it for years, without taking precautionary measures. For those who live under asbestos containing roofs, there is no danger, and if you are exposed to the dust for a short period or two there really nothing to worry about either. I remember we played with the stuff when we were kids, and when the asbestos hysteria hadn't set in yet, and I have had no negative effects from it.

Blue asbestos is very dangerous, and has long been banned in Thailand.

[MAJIC]

Remind me ..... is it really is 2015 (2558) ? .. Makes me wonder which people have a vested interest in Asbestos production/distribution here

Thailand Asbestos ban delayed; Cabinet say 'not enough evidence'

The people who made the decision that there is not enough evidence to support a asbestos ban live in a sqeaky clean enviroment,so no evidence will be obvious!

there is mountains of evidence from around the world,but I suppose that does not count in Thailand!

[MAJIC]

There are different kinds of asbestos, and the white variation used here is only dangerous for those who work with it for years, without taking precautionary measures. For those who live under asbestos containing roofs, there is no danger, and if you are exposed to the dust for a short period or two there really nothing to worry about either. I remember we played with the stuff when we were kids, and when the asbestos hysteria hadn't set in yet, and I have had no negative effects from it.

Blue asbestos is very dangerous, and has long been banned in Thailand.

Maybe you were lucky!

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-tyne-24942338

https://www.google.co.uk/search?q=cape+asbestos&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8&gws_rd=cr&ei=crAlVbDTAo_faOaHgPAE

Edited April 8, 2015 by MAJIC

[tonbridgebrit]

For God's sake, ban it, and ban it now.

[Thai at Heart]

I met the Canadian rep who dealt with this business in Thailand. I think he had a lot of very large brown envelopes to facilitate, if you know what I mean

[Alan Deer]

On 1/5/2015 at 5:33 PM, MJP said:

Do I understand it correctly that they're talking about serpentine asbestos (chrysotile/white) firmly bonded in cement sheets? Please don't tell me they're debating amphibole asbestos (amosite/brown, crocidolite/blue) in any form whatsoever, especially loose/lagging.

Wikipedia article about asbestos :

''Chrysotile has been included with other forms of asbestos, in being considered to be a human carcinogen by the International Agency for Research on Cancer (IARC) and by the U.S. Department of Health and Human Services .''

Importantly, the World Health Organization (WHO) produced a separate report on the use of chrysotile asbestos in 2014, likely because some countries still single out this product as being safe or safer, than other forms of asbestos.
It summarizes evaluations performed by its International Agency for Research on Cancer (IARC) and its International Programme on Chemical Safety (IPCS). In its conclusion, it states that all types of asbestos (including chrysotile) cause asbestosis, mesothelioma and cancer of the lung, larynx and ovary.

[slapout]

On 05/01/2015 at 4:37 PM, AleG said:

That is assuming any studies have been carried out in Thailand at all; from the wording of the article that is the impression I get, or at least that they have not been extensive or detailed enough, they are not accepting evidence from international studies neither, so they seem very interested in looking the other way.

If its like most things are done here there was a budget for a committee investigation, bids made and approved, money dispersed, and nothing could be determined 100% for the Thai

• 2  labor involved. the contractors, if known, had no record, address, and possibly only 1 name of employees. The budget did not allow for foreign travel for the education of those involved as Thai conditions are not like foreign so the Thai factories kept selling the crap to the contractors for building, while the rest of the real world was tearing it out and replacing with safe material. It would not be surprising to find that the document was written by a member of a committee made up of employees of companies in the business and employees of the health ministry.  Doubt any are really qualified to evaluate any serious research publications which have approached this topic

[300sd]

 

On 1/5/2015 at 4:17 PM, thailiketoo said:

Canada has recently been recognized as the country responsible for not adding asbestos to the international hazardous list. Canada's mining efforts started around 1850 when chrysotile deposits were discovered in Thetford. By 1876, approximately 50 tons of asbestos were being mined in Quebec. By the 1950s, the annual mining haul was more than 900,000 tons.

http://www.asbestos.com/mesothelioma/worldwide.php

As usual it's the Canadians fault. They walk around with their red maple leaves and you don't suspect a thing but then whamo out comes the asbestos.

You want to blame the countries that produce this stuff? It's their fault that Thailand buys it! Smoking causes cancer, you want to blame the countries who produce tobacco! Are you getting the picture? The blame is on the purchaser, especially when the purchaser knows these products kill. If the purchaser is stupid enough to buy it then someone or some country will produce it. Thailand allows the import and sale of this crap. Oh I forgot where I was. Go ahead, blame it on another country!  

Edited February 12, 2017 by 300sd

[Rhys]

Then for those well informed and hard working cabinet members on this committee, lined their offices with the "stuff" and show how safe the materials are for the entire Thai people.

 

 

[aussieinthailand]

On 1/5/2015 at 3:40 PM, halloween said:

I suggest you read Gray Mountain: a novel by John Grisham. One of the themes is the difficulty miners with black lung have in obtaining compensation in the lawsuit capital of the world.

Mesothelioma,  is the word your looking for mate,  Asbestos,   "black lung" is for coal mining.....!

I would suggest  that you and most people don't have  bloody clue on what happens in the mining game.

I'm not having a go at ya mate as it's not your fault,,,    but seriously,,, you would be F***ng  amazed at what really goe's on underground in the real world not just what is published,,,,!!! And I worked for the biggest gold producing company on the planet...!!!   not good for share holders or the public to know about.  Off shore drill rig's that will wake you up to the real world man...!!!

I worked underground for several years and have seen my fair share of shit that simply would not fly in the common world of employment,  Case in point, morning muster/meeting before we go under ground we were told, you must wear XXX rating mask  before you go too that drive,

Our answer was HEY <deleted> we have been dragging dirt/ore, out of that heading for the last three day's,  the reply was if you go too that drive you must wear XXX rating mask,!!!   Again, Yo,,, <deleted> we have been there for the last three day's,   reply ,,, you must wear XXX rating mask if you go too this drive, so what chance has a cinder in a snow storm will change anything???

By the way Black lung is mostly to do with coal mining,

This coming from a bloke that worked in the game,,, Nipper/bolt bitch/service crew/paste fill/truck driver/ charge up/( make things go bang) bogger operator/load trucks/ bog headings/bog to charge/air leg bitch and all that goe's with that...!

A little re-serch will really show just what is really going on man...!

 

Edited February 12, 2017 by aussieinthailand

[wakeupplease]

Oh my God, the facts are there do not waste your money on research its been done by almost every civilised country in the world

 

FACT

[aussieinthailand]

Not enough evidence huh? you pack of scum that will sacrifice men women and children to make money,  SHAME...! 

[thai3]

On 1/5/2015 at 3:43 PM, dcutman said:

I was not aware of asbestos was widely being used here. I have cut many a floor tile and many cement board products since moving here.

Dont suppose the health department would even consider putting warning labels on these products containing asbestos to at least give the consumer a choice.

Just a related story from last year about the use of lead in just about every brand of Thai paint. http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/676309-high-level-of-lead-found-in-many-paints-in-thailand/

You must be blind, almost every other house has asbestos tiles on extensions and asbestos walls cutting them off from next door, it's all over the place. Siam Cement makes it all.

[Alan Deer]

This is particularly disturbing for expats - their "new" houses will have asbestos throughout.....and those living in the industrial areas - or nearby - are particularly in danger as any explosions or industrial / structural damage is going allow the release of asbestos all over the hinterland. areas like Map a Put/Ban Chang are particularly at risk.

 

apparently figure for Asbestosis and asbestos related cancer are simply not available in Thailand?

 

Edited February 13, 2017 by Alan Deer

[bheard]

You must be blind, almost every other house has asbestos tiles on extensions and asbestos walls cutting them off from next door, it's all over the place. Siam Cement makes it all.

He's probably not blind and has seen all that. The point is, is it cement sheet or asbestos cement sheet?
Here in OZ my new house has cement sheet walls. No asbestos though.
Asbestos was used to add fibre to the mix for strength. These days other materials are used. They cost a little more.
However, obviously in Thailand the asbestos lobby wins, for two reasons. 1. Money changes hands and 2. Money changes hands.

[thai3]

Saw lots of it being installed around our house a few years ago, guys were drilling into it and sawing it, no face masks at all. Sure the white stuff is not as deadly as the brown or blue stuff, but it is not entirely safe either.

[Alan Deer]

18 minutes ago, thai3 said:

Saw lots of it being installed around our house a few years ago, guys were drilling into it and sawing it, no face masks at all. Sure the white stuff is not as deadly as the brown or blue stuff, but it is not entirely safe either.

Apparently that simple hierarchical view of asbestos is misleading as it is how it is used that gets and handled the final say....the industry has always tried to say the "some are more equal than others" - but they would wouldn't they?

Asbestos Myth 2: “White asbestos (chrysotile) is not dangerous”

This is incorrect; white asbestos (chrysotile) is classed as a carcinogen and is dangerous, although not as dangerous as the other forms of asbestos – see our asbestos health risks resource for more information.

Asbestos Myth 3: “When white asbestos (chrysotile) is bonded into cement, the cement reacts with the asbestos fibres over the years and causes a chemical change which makes the asbestos non harmful”

This is incorrect; even after many years, a competent laboratory will still be able to recognise chrysotile asbestos in a cement product and there is no evidence that its carcinogenic properties reduce with time.

http://www.aic.org.uk/asbestos-myths/

 

Edited February 13, 2017 by Alan Deer

[Alan Deer]

I realise that this thread is a year old......has there been any change in the government stance on this topic.

to suggest a "lack of evidence" just flies in the face of reason, one can only assume that there are some people with substantial vested interests lobbying an uniformed govenment on this topic to get a statement that is 180 degrees out of sync with the rest of the world