Teenage Thai son by marrage causing many problems

[carken]

I legally married a thai lady 8 years ago. She is smart intelligent and great wife. We love each other and will not be seperating. Sons now 15 and 16. Oldest son has a problem with keeping penis in pants. He was caught last year having sex with 13 year old girl in temple. Courts made us pay girls parents 20,000 baht and put son on probation. He quit school and found a job. We co-signed for used motorbike so he could go to and return from job. He was supposed to pay for motorbike from job wages. He is now fired for not showing up for work. He is now 16 and took 16 year old new girl friend from her house for 5 days. Of course had sex with her all the time. He has not been home for for those 5 days. She is not pregnant (I hope). She returned to her home today. Girls parents now want them to marry and for us to pay for wedding. 16 year old son decided 2 years ago he did not have to listen to or take orders from me or mama. He basically comes and goes as he pleases. We still have no idea where he is. My question is three fold. #1 do we have to pay for wedding according to Thai law. #2 do we have to pay for motorbike which is registered in his name. #3 Can courts and girls parents take our paid for home(1million baht) and/or car and our motorcycle (all paid for in cash). We are not rich and live on my monthly Social Security income of 40,000 baht a month. I would appreciate "senseable" answers and no "smart-aleck no help sarcastic think you are funny" answers. Thank you in advance for any helpful answers. Again I would like to ask for "senseable" answers and no "smart-aleck no help sarcastic think you are funny" answers. As a long reader of Thai Visa Forum I have sadly read to many of these. So please I need help and not smart a** put downs.

[Costas2008]

I'm not a lawyer and if you want serious advice you better contact one.

But to my opinion the girls parents have NO right to your house car or motorcycle.

And if they want a super wedding for their daughter tell them to pay for it.

Anyway it wan't last for a long time.

Don't be afraid, you and your wife, tell her parents to deal directly with your son and sort out whatever they want.

At the moment they think they got the rich farang that will provide for everything.

Don't give in to their demands and let them do whatever they want.

And I don't think they can do much.

[ripstanley]

What is your wife's attitude to her sons activities? Where do you live? If it is a small village then the head boss maybe able to talk to him. As previously advised speak to a lawyer. In the end it maybe you have to tell him to find somewhere else to live. Good luck with your problem.

[carken]

To "Costas2008" Thank you so very much for your concern and great reply. I really really appreciate it very much. You are a very nice person for taking the time to think and reply with your senseable and helpful replay. It's people like you that are a boon and success to Thai Visa Forum. Thank you and may you get daily rewards for your thoughtfulness. I hope you have a very good New Year and future life in Thailand, that I think is a great country for expats. May Buddha smile on you forever. Sincerely .... Carken

[benalibina]

Sorry to read about your and your wifes predicament.

I understand that you need short term solutions...as per your questions, but the son has obviously some real issues pending. You posting on here shows that you care so in the meantime try to figure out what the real issues are regarding him. If you do not do that a bigger trainwreck is waiting to happen. IMO his mother is the key to the solution.

As above poster stated there, most likely, is no legal danger to you loosing house or you paying for the wedding. I do not think that Thai law states that the groom, or his family, needs to pay for a wedding....as for the mbike....i dont know about the financecontract.

Good luck.

[Sirpia]

Cut off all payments for everything.

Do not offer or agree to pay a baht to anyone for anything he does.

[Slip]

Carken, you will have to learn to take the rough with the smooth here. It would be a mistake to get into it with members who are poking a bit of fun.

On topic- The ages of the two in the latest bunk-up are important. I don't know the specifics of the law, but 16 can definitely be construed as 'under-aged' in this country. This is where your money and possessions would come in- to keep the little fornicator out of jail.

[Shurup]

... but the son has obviously some real issues pending...

He has no issues, he's acting as many other teens of his age all over the world, all he wants at this time is to get into girls' panties. Some are being more difficult than the others and he's one of the difficult ones.

To the OP,

The sinsot BS is a tradition, not the law, girl's parents can't demand anything they want. The boy is supposed to come up with the sinsot money by himself if he wants to get married and if he doesn't want - oh well... They have no rights to any of your possessions.

The advice I would give him is to find the girls from the other villages or better yet from nearby towns or cities so those other girls' parents can't come back to you and give you more headaches.

[carken]

Io "ripstanley" Thank you for your reply. Good idea and thoughtfulness. I appreciate it so very much. We live in Tha Yang 2.5 hours southewest of Bangkok. My wife of course loves her son, as I do, his new father ... Her attitude is if son is going to continue with his irresponsible acts then he will be excluded from family and family's help. She is sadened by his actions and loves him but enough is enough, He needs to pay for his own mistakes and pay the consequenses. Like I said she is a loving mother and wants the best for her son(s) but he needs to learn hard lessons in life. Mama and Papa can only do so much. It's time for son to "pay the piper". We are currently in talks with girls family and things are looking better. Will keep you updated on developments. Girls parents have agreed to take son into home and help him if he is willing to work and support daughter with a responsible job. Girls parents seem to be very helpful and not vindictive. It may turn out better than I ever expected. Lets keep our fingers crossed. Maybe son will turn out to be a good man after all. We certainly hope so and are brightened by possible good future.

[cornishcarlos]

It doesn't have to cost much for a wedding, reckon you could cover all bases for 50k ie the traditional basic requirements, not a party for 300 'relatives'

Then they can go play happy families and leave you n your wife alone, problem solved !

[krisb]

#1 do we have to pay for wedding according to Thai law

I'm pretty sure there's no written law saying who pays for a wedding.

I have heard it's the grooms who usually pay.

#2 do we have to pay for motorbike which is registered in his name

Nope. His name, not yours.

#3 Can courts and girls parents take our paid for home(1million baht) and/or car and our motorcycle (all paid for in cash).

No the girls parents can't of course not.

The courts aren't involved and why would they be?

Did the girls parents cry rape?

[carken]

It doesn't have to cost much for a wedding, reckon you could cover all bases for 50k ie the traditional basic requirements, not a party for 300 'relatives'

Then they can go play happy families and leave you n your wife alone, problem solved !

Thank you for comment. We appreciate you thoughts. Cannot and do not want to pay 50,000 for sons problems. He needs to take responsibilty for his actions. I've been a great father and tried to raise him as a responsible person, but teenagers think they know it all. Time for him to grow up and understand about life and one's actions. This may seem cruel and unloving to some but Mama and Papa tired of his disregard for one's social and human responsibilities.

[cornishcarlos]

It doesn't have to cost much for a wedding, reckon you could cover all bases for 50k ie the traditional basic requirements, not a party for 300 'relatives'

Then they can go play happy families and leave you n your wife alone, problem solved !

Thank you for comment. We appreciate you thoughts. Cannot and do not want to pay 50,000 for sons problems. He needs to take responsibilty for his actions. I've been a great father and tried to raise him as a responsible person, but teenagers think they know it all. Time for him to grow up and understand about life and one's actions. This may seem cruel and unloving to some but Mama and Papa tired of his disregard for one's cosial and human responsibilities.

Sounds like you have already made your choice then...

As for legal aspects, pretty obvious that no one can make you pay for a wedding. Also, unless you co-signed for the bike you are under no obligation to make repayments.

Just reread your OP, you did co sign so you are liable for payments but just let them repossess it...

Good luck

[carken]

#1 do we have to pay for wedding according to Thai law

I'm pretty sure there's no written law saying who pays for a wedding.

I have heard it's the grooms who usually pay.

#2 do we have to pay for motorbike which is registered in his name

Nope. His name, not yours.

#3 Can courts and girls parents take our paid for home(1million baht) and/or car and our motorcycle (all paid for in cash).

No the girls parents can't of course not.

The courts aren't involved and why would they be?

Did the girls parents cry rape?

To "krisp" thank you for taking time and effort with a thoughtful reply. Good answers. No girls parents did not cry rape, thank goodness. They seem to be very good but worried parents. We are looking for a mutual beneficial outcome.

[carken]

Sorry to read about your and your wifes predicament.

I understand that you need short term solutions...as per your questions, but the son has obviously some real issues pending. You posting on here shows that you care so in the meantime try to figure out what the real issues are regarding him. If you do not do that a bigger trainwreck is waiting to happen. IMO his mother is the key to the solution.

As above poster stated there, most likely, is no legal danger to you loosing house or you paying for the wedding. I do not think that Thai law states that the groom, or his family, needs to pay for a wedding....as for the mbike....i dont know about the financecontract.

Good luck.

To "binalibina" Again many thanks for your thoughtful reply. Yes I agree bigger future trainweck very possible. Thanks for your "good luck" wishes. Will keep you and everyone posted as to outcome as it may be helpful to others in same situation

[carken]

Cut off all payments for everything.

Do not offer or agree to pay a baht to anyone for anything he does.

To "Sirpia" thank you for reply. Excellent advice and will take it

[AnotherOneAmerican]

Stop paying his fines,

Don't give him money or m/cs,

Remove him from your home,

Refuse all responsibility for him.

In Thailand once they finish Mathayom 3 (age 15), parents are no longer legally responsible for them.

Many children are chucked out of their home at that age, parents here have little patience with problem children.

[carken]

Carken, you will have to learn to take the rough with the smooth here. It would be a mistake to get into it with members who are poking a bit of fun.

On topic- The ages of the two in the latest bunk-up are important. I don't know the specifics of the law, but 16 can definitely be construed as 'under-aged' in this country. This is where your money and possessions would come in- to keep the little fornicator out of jail.

Thaks "Slip" ... This may seem harsh to many but if jail is what it takes then 16 year old Know-it-all will end up there. Maybe jail will straighten him out or learn new tricks. who knows, but we have tried to be good parents but he like many teenagers has world all figured out, and it just may help or break him. Only time will tell and we hope for the best.

[carken]

Stop paying his fines,

Don't give him money or m/cs,

Remove him from your home,

Refuse all responsibility for him.

In Thailand once they finish Mathayom 3 (age 15), parents are no longer legally responsible for them.

Many children are chucked out of their home at that age, parents here have little patience with problem children.

To "AnotherOneAmerican" Excellent advice even though it may seem harse to others. That is exactly where we (Mama Papa) are right now. Thank you

[beau thai]

So sorry to read about your problems.

Teenagers can be a nightmare in any country, and no doubt you get the 'You're not my Dad' usual reaction if you try to discipline him.

My ex (in the west) threw my son out when he was 16, after many warnings. He was impossible. Now 23 and a responsible lad with a good job and attitude but, sorry to tell you, it took years. He had to be forced to face up to the consequences of his own actions which almost led to a prison sentence.

My thai gf has a 7 year old who is a great lad now but in 7 years time, who knows? I guess it will depend on the peer group he runs with.

Hang tough- it will be best for him in the long run. He has to understand that you wont bail him out and fix all his misdemeanours right? Very hard for his mother too.

[carken]

So sorry to read about your problems.

Teenagers can be a nightmare in any country, and no doubt you get the 'You're not my Dad' usual reaction if you try to discipline him.

My ex (in the west) threw my son out when he was 16, after many warnings. He was impossible. Now 23 and a responsible lad with a good job and attitude but, sorry to tell you, it took years. He had to be forced to face up to the consequences of his own actions which almost led to a prison sentence.

My thai gf has a 7 year old who is a great lad now but in 7 years time, who knows? I guess it will depend on the peer group he runs with.

Hang tough- it will be best for him in the long run. He has to understand that you wont bail him out and fix all his misdemeanours right? Very hard for his mother too.

Thank you "beau thai" (clever name) ...I totally agree about teenagers in any country. I hope our "problem child" works out as good as you and your ex's. Yes in 7 years you may be facing teenage troubles, I hope not for your sake. Thanks for encouragement

[Enoon]

"If you have a son who does nothing good… deliver him at once into the hands of a merchant who will send him to another country. Or send him yourself to one of your close friends... Nothing else can be done. While he remains with you, he will not mend his ways."

[Scully]

Just noticed you posted in ask a lawyer forum so you sound a little worried, so I'll reply.

No they can't make you pay for the wedding, not legally.

You say you cosigned an agreement for the motorcycle, this could have been you signing to be guarantor so if he fails to pay then the burden is on you. Don't know what you signed but that is common policy.

And no the family can't get one baht off you. Its what 16year old boys and girls do all over the world, stop worrying.

[samsensam]

Cut off all payments for everything.

Do not offer or agree to pay a baht to anyone for anything he does.

and pay whoever to make sure he's drafted for national service

the wayward brother of a thai friend who was living inside and outside the law and nearly lost an arm at songkran when his mate who was trying to protect him in a fight accidentally hacked him with a machete... but i digress. he got put into the army and has really turned his life around. he enjoys the army so much he's volunteered for duty in the south...

[kiniyow]

Put him in the Army the sooner the better..He will adapt or pay for his bad behavior....Take away any options or allow him to run over you

[Mario2008]

1 off topic post and a reply to it removed.

[Mario2008]

1. There is no legal obligation, but there is a cultural one. However, when people get married, the wedding guest at the party will give enveloppes with money. This should cover the wedding cost (at least partly)

2. You co-signed for the loan, so if he doesn't pay you will have to pay. That is why you neded to sign. Once paid you can have the motorcycle transferred to your name and sell it.Depends on the age of the child and the liability

3. Depends on the age of the child and the liabiltiity of the parents. Not sure what Thai law says about the age at which parents are no longer finacially responsbily for misdeeds of their children.

[SOTIRIOS]

......pay....pay...pay.....like you have been doing all these years......

...when you cannot pay any more.....see what happens to you.....and who will help you.......

[steve187]

The hardest job in the world - ''Step children''

good luck in your endeavors

[recycler]

#1 do we have to pay for wedding according to Thai law

I'm pretty sure there's no written law saying who pays for a wedding.

I have heard it's the grooms who usually pay.

#2 do we have to pay for motorbike which is registered in his name

Nope. His name, not yours.

#3 Can courts and girls parents take our paid for home(1million baht) and/or car and our motorcycle (all paid for in cash).

No the girls parents can't of course not.

The courts aren't involved and why would they be?

Did the girls parents cry rape?

To "krisp" thank you for taking time and effort with a thoughtful reply. Good answers. No girls parents did not cry rape, thank goodness. They seem to be very good but worried parents. We are looking for a mutual beneficial outcome.

Not all correct:

1. There is indeed no law on payments for marriage, actually the dowry (sinsod in Thai) is related to a traditional wedding ceremony that has no legal status. A real marriage is done at the local amphur and will cost a few hundred Baht. Age of consent needed from parents or legal guardian from both sides is 15 years until 20, after that people can decide themselves to marry.

2. The boy is below the legal age of 20 in Thailand so his parents or legal guardians are liable for damages and debts caused by the kid.

3. If this is only a civil case the other party has to proof damage to the court that will decide how much is acceptable, but I don't think they will have the means to go to court. If it's rape than it will be a criminal case, but given what you explain that is not likely. Your biggest danger here is the police that will try to rule this case as if they are a judge and depending on the situation they may favor the claiming party and try to force you in to paying (they may even share in it...) as you are the farang and can easily pay in their eyes.

All the best with the boys troubles, this is already difficult if it would be your own country or culture, here it's a lot more difficult!