Opportunities for software engineer in Thailand

[MontyB]

Hi,

I'm interested in moving to Thailand next year and I am wondering what the job opportunities are like in the IT sector over there for farang. I have read various differing views on this and I'm a bit confused as to what is available over there.I currently work for a large company in Ireland but I have become disillusioned with daily life here and would love to relocate.

I have a degree and masters in Software Engineering and will have 2 and half years experience when I plan to leave. I have experience in many programming languages and working in an agile work environment.

What would my employment prospects be if I made the move?

[Soutpeel]

Well one suspects you would become more disillusioned in Thailand then as from what I understand the money on offer is dire

[rwdrwdrwd]

Senior level 35k - 80k THB and also pretty rare (and years behind the curve in regard to process and toolset in most cases).

That's a good living here in relation to most other jobs done by foreigners not shipped here on an expat package, but pretty crap internationally for the skillset.

If that's enough for you, there's an interesting looking role here - http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/783998-backend-developers-nodejs-40000-80000-baht-for-infinity-levels-studio-game-studio/ additionally Agoda are looking for a couple, though I think they want someone very senior as mostly a Dev Manager.

You'd be better off financially working remotely for Western organisations, US average for Senior is 90 - 120k USD, British is around 50 - 65k GBP, and it's possible to get the same rates on a remote basis if you are good enough - certainly not as easy to land as onsite though.

weworkremotely.com and http://careers.stackoverflow.com/jobs?allowsremote=True are excellent for finding western rate paying full time remote roles.

Alternatively, there are jobs in Singapore and Hong Kong paying western rates. Not too far.

5 years is generally considered the bottom end of Senior though, consequently you might be better off putting a couple more years in onsite in Ireland. If you're good perhaps you can talk/bribe/cajole your employers into a remote arrangement, that's what I did 10 years back when I first left home country.

Edited January 6, 2015 by rwdrwdrwd

[kmj]

If you have the skills there's good money to be made working through the freelancer type sites. Build up a preferred cliet list that you can work directly with later without the sometimes extortionate royalty rates that some of the freelancer sites take.

[recycler]

Why move here and work for a low salary in an increasingly expensive country meanwhile ruin your career being in a, for your job, underdeveloped outpost.

By the way, there is a lot of news you can read about disillusioned people here falling from buildings, dangling on ropes, floating in the sea or other creative solutions...

Figure out why you are disillusioned and find a more constructive solution than an escape to Thailand!

[Tuskfish]

Elance

[bkk_mike]

Unless there's a specific reason for coming to Thailand, if you still want to come to Asia, Singapore, Hong Kong, Tokyo - are all probably better options career-wise.

All have multi-nationals where English is the main language - I worked in a team in Tokyo for an American firm where there was a Thai, two Japanese, two Indians, one English, one Irish, one Scot, and a Czech in the group... Similarly, in Hong Kong, while there were a lot of locals, and some mainland Chinese, there are also a lot of Indians, Brits and others working in IT there as well.

Thailand's immigration rules mean you don't get that sort of working environment (and it's part of the reason why multinationals tend to have their Asian HQs in one of those places).

(Having a relevant degree means work permits are usually straightforward enough for the employer to sort out, although to get employed based on a telephone interview, you would generally need to have experience in the same business area - i.e. financial services is a big employer in all three.)

[mike324]

most of my friends who make a decent salary work as freelance and remote, forget about trying to find a local company here that pays the average western rate. The other group who makes a decent salary started their own company and have a handful of workers. I guess it depends what your expectations are, it won't be too hard to find a low-mid paying job which can cover the basics and have some fun here if that's what you are looking for.

[Gonki]

I moved here from USA with 12 years of IT experience and no idea what to expect. I was offered to undergo several interviews in Bangkok and Koh Chang for datawarehouse engineer. I declined and settled for remote work as a freelancer. I am very happy now.

[MontyB]

Thanks for all the information and advice.

I understand it's not realistic to be looking for a thai company that pays western rates but I just want to earn enough to live relatively comfortably over there. The freelance option is something I would definitely be interested in. Is joining an agency the best way to get started in freelance?

[manarak]

Senior level 35k - 80k THB and also pretty rare (and years behind the curve in regard to process and toolset in most cases).

That's a good living here in relation to most other jobs done by foreigners not shipped here on an expat package, but pretty crap internationally for the skillset.

If that's enough for you, there's an interesting looking role here - http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/783998-backend-developers-nodejs-40000-80000-baht-for-infinity-levels-studio-game-studio/ additionally Agoda are looking for a couple, though I think they want someone very senior as mostly a Dev Manager.

You'd be better off financially working remotely for Western organisations, US average for Senior is 90 - 120k USD, British is around 50 - 65k GBP, and it's possible to get the same rates on a remote basis if you are good enough - certainly not as easy to land as onsite though.

weworkremotely.com and http://careers.stackoverflow.com/jobs?allowsremote=True are excellent for finding western rate paying full time remote roles.

Alternatively, there are jobs in Singapore and Hong Kong paying western rates. Not too far.

5 years is generally considered the bottom end of Senior though, consequently you might be better off putting a couple more years in onsite in Ireland. If you're good perhaps you can talk/bribe/cajole your employers into a remote arrangement, that's what I did 10 years back when I first left home country.

I know Apple and Google pay some local programmers 100 - 120k THB per month

[yellowboat]

Thanks for all the information and advice.

I understand it's not realistic to be looking for a thai company that pays western rates but I just want to earn enough to live relatively comfortably over there. The freelance option is something I would definitely be interested in. Is joining an agency the best way to get started in freelance?

As a freelancer, biggest problem now will be visas. Though you will not be taking any jobs away from any locals, you will be working in the eyes of the Thail government. Cambodian visas are far easier. In places like Hong Kong and Singapore, it woudl not be difficult other than housing. If you are dead set in living in Thailand, you could set up a company, but you may find that not very attractive.

[rwdrwdrwd]

I know Apple and Google pay some local programmers 100 - 120k THB per month

That's good to hear, still easily 1/3 of the amount that can be earned (very easily by a dev good enough to be hired by Google or Apple) working remotely for slighty smaller western orgs. Makes it a bit of a no-brainer to me, financially, at least for a Senior non Thai Software Engineer that wants to live here. It's a different story for Thai nationals whose motivations may differ since that package is excellent locally and opens up doors for internal transfers to very high paying locations.

OP - Freelancing (as in ad-hoc, multiple clients) is another option, I did that for 4 years from Brazil, Argentina, South Africa, Malaysia, India and Sri Lanka amongst others, always earned western rates and had 20 - 40 (60 at times) busy hours a week. freelancers.net used to be excellent for avoiding the $5 an hour type stuff, but it's died a bit of a death. peopleperhour.com might be a place to start, others have success on elance, I think all of these sites require building up a profile which may mean starting off very cheap just to win jobs. Twitter is surprisingly good for this - just search for 'freelance [technology]' and start networking.

In the end though, I found it preferable to shift from freelancing to focus on a single client and take full time long term remote roles (executed as a consulting agreement, including equity, expenses etc), primarily due to the amount of admin and comms involved with handling multiple clients (especially when you have 3 that follow Agile process strictly - 3x stand ups, 3x retrospectives, 3x breakdown/estimation etc etc etc).

Edited January 8, 2015 by rwdrwdrwd

[Soutpeel]

Thanks for all the information and advice.

I understand it's not realistic to be looking for a thai company that pays western rates but I just want to earn enough to live relatively comfortably over there. The freelance option is something I would definitely be interested in. Is joining an agency the best way to get started in freelance?

As a freelancer, biggest problem now will be visas. Though you will not be taking any jobs away from any locals, you will be working in the eyes of the Thail government. Cambodian visas are far easier. In places like Hong Kong and Singapore, it woudl not be difficult other than housing. If you are dead set in living in Thailand, you could set up a company, but you may find that not very attractive.

So what your saying is you can set up as a digital pikey in HK or Singapore on tourist visas and stay as long as you want without a work pass / WP on both countries ? I know for a fact your talking out your bottom

[rwdrwdrwd]

If working remotely from a nation for an entity based in another nation requires the individual to have permission to work in the nation they use their computer, then yes one would need to comply with that legislation.

Of course there is no example, globally, of anyone being prosecuted for doing so, ever, so one takes their chances.

Thousands (at least) of Americans travel through the EU working remotely for example, and vice versa, all their kit in tow, without permission to 'work' in those countries, either on a long term or short term basis. I can't find a single example, globally, of anyone ever getting into trouble for doing so.

However, please let's not let this thread digress as many others have into a ridiculous slanging match between people who dislike 'digital nomads' and people that don't. It's insanely boring.

Edited January 8, 2015 by rwdrwdrwd

[manarak]

I know Apple and Google pay some local programmers 100 - 120k THB per month

That's good to hear, still easily 1/3 of the amount that can be earned (very easily by a dev good enough to be hired by Google or Apple) working remotely for slighty smaller western orgs. Makes it a bit of a no-brainer to me, financially, at least for a Senior non Thai Software Engineer that wants to live here. It's a different story for Thai nationals whose motivations may differ since that package is excellent locally and opens up doors for internal transfers to very high paying locations.

OP - Freelancing (as in ad-hoc, multiple clients) is another option, I did that for 4 years from Brazil, Argentina, South Africa, Malaysia, India and Sri Lanka amongst others, always earned western rates and had 20 - 40 (60 at times) busy hours a week. freelancers.net used to be excellent for avoiding the $5 an hour type stuff, but it's died a bit of a death. peopleperhour.com might be a place to start, others have success on elance, I think all of these sites require building up a profile which may mean starting off very cheap just to win jobs. Twitter is surprisingly good for this - just search for 'freelance [technology]' and start networking.

In the end though, I found it preferable to shift from freelancing to focus on a single client and take full time long term remote roles (executed as a consulting agreement, including equity, expenses etc), primarily due to the amount of admin and comms involved with handling multiple clients (especially when you have 3 that follow Agile process strictly - 3x stand ups, 3x retrospectives, 3x breakdown/estimation etc etc etc).

Personally, I think the situation in Thailand is terrible in regard to programmers, and using freelancers is no solution for me, because I have trade secrets.

I can't afford the risk of freelancers using my tricks.

I need a couple of people to work for me locally, so I can see what they are doing.

Sadly, I haven't been able to find any qualified Thai staff so far.